Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: discogirl on November 09, 2022, 03:36:51 PM
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Hi everyone,
Decided to move from patches to gel as even from the beginning with the patches, it didn't seem to do anything at all for my sleep. So my gp (who is lovely) has given me oestrogel.
Can you let me know, I was on 50mcg estraderm, so I understand that's two pumps of the gel.
Where is the best place to put it for best absorption? Inside of thighs?
also as I'm using two pumps do I put the two pumps on the same piece of skin or one pump on one inside thigh and the other pump on the other inside thigh.
I'm hoping I will absorp this better.
Any stories about the gel good or bad, I would be most interested to hear xxx
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Hi discogirl,
I put one pump on one inner thigh and one pump on the other inner thigh. It usually absorbs within 5 minutes. When I first got it I put it on my upper outer arms but the smell got on my nerves but I don't notice the smell when it's on my thighs. I've had no bad experiences with the gel, I love it! Let us know how you get on. xxxx
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Hi discogirl,
I put one pump on one inner thigh and one pump on the other inner thigh. It usually absorbs within 5 minutes. When I first got it I put it on my upper outer arms but the smell got on my nerves but I don't notice the smell when it's on my thighs. I've had no bad experiences with the gel, I love it! Let us know how you get on. xxxx
Thanks so much Katherine,
Has it affected your sleep, good or bad?
I'm planning to put it on first thing in the morning.
also I was on 50 patch started on 22nd Oct, will I be okay doing 2 pumps of the gel or would it be better to use just one pump. I mean is the gel stronger than the patches.
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You need 2pumps to equal a 50 patch.
Put on inner thighs or outer arms and shoulders . x
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You need 2pumps to equal a 50 patch.
Put on inner thighs or outer arms and shoulders . x
Thanks Dotty.
I hope I'm okay on the gel, I just hope I'm not changing too much too soon.
As least with the gel it's easier to increase dosage should I need to xx
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Hi discogirl,
I take the gel in the morning and sometimes a pump in the early evening if I need a boost. I personally find oestrogen to be energising and it just gives me a feeling of well being / less anxiety so I guess yes it does indirectly help me sleep better. I feel like the utrogestan has more of an influence on my sleep than oestrogen but I think they are both important in different ways. When I first tried the gel I used it just before bed and it kept me awake so you are doing the right thing taking it in the morning.
I really think if its your hormones causing you to feel this way then its just a matter of time before you feel better, just finding what works for you best and also it takes time to feel the full benefits of HRT. When I apply the gel I can feel the effects really quick, it's great. xxxx
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Hi discogirl,
I take the gel in the morning and sometimes a pump in the early evening if I need a boost. I personally find oestrogen to be energising and it just gives me a feeling of well being / less anxiety so I guess yes it does indirectly help me sleep better. I feel like the utrogestan has more of an influence on my sleep than oestrogen but I think they are both important in different ways. When I first tried the gel I used it just before bed and it kept me awake so you are doing the right thing taking it in the morning.
I really think if its your hormones causing you to feel this way then its just a matter of time before you feel better, just finding what works for you best and also it takes time to feel the full benefits of HRT. When I apply the gel I can feel the effects really quick, it's great. xxxx
Thanks for that Katherine,
That's what I'm worred about, that with estrogen being energizing I hope the gel isn't too energizing and it wears off by bedtime.
Having said that, I wear the patches obviously in bed; but even if it helps the anxiety xx
At least if I try the gel and give it a couple of months things don't work out, then maybe hrt isn't for me xx
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Hi discogirl, I don’t think the gel will cause you any further sleep issues if you take it in the morning. As I said I can even get away with a pump in early evening without it affecting my sleep.
It took several months for the oestrogen component to properly work for me, and when I tried to come off HRT recently due to the breathing issues that I felt utrogestan had caused/worsened, I realised just how much the gel had been benefitting me and now I wouldn’t go without it so I think there’s a good chance you will find the right HRT for you. But as you said there is always the option of leaving it behind and trying other things. Xxx
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Hi discogirl, I don’t think the gel will cause you any further sleep issues if you take it in the morning. As I said I can even get away with a pump in early evening without it affecting my sleep.
It took several months for the oestrogen component to properly work for me, and when I tried to come off HRT recently due to the breathing issues that I felt utrogestan had caused/worsened, I realised just how much the gel had been benefitting me and now I wouldn’t go without it so I think there’s a good chance you will find the right HRT for you. But as you said there is always the option of leaving it behind and trying other things. Xxx
Can I ask katherine, I've noticed some women say when they use estrogel, that it causes their estrogen to spike and then plummet, have you noticed this and how do you get around it xx
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Hi discogirl, I haven’t had that problem with the gel. I usually take it in the morning and it sets me up for the day. It gives me a little boost of energy that lasts. The following morning I can feel I need my next dose but no, Between doses I’m fine. I’ve never had any issues with the gel. X
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Hi discogirl, I haven’t had that problem with the gel. I usually take it in the morning and it sets me up for the day. It gives me a little boost of energy that lasts. The following morning I can feel I need my next dose but no, Between doses I’m fine. I’ve never had any issues with the gel. X
Hi Katherine,
Thanks for that.
Forgive me for asking but did you have sleep issues before using the gel xxx
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Hi Discogirl
Please can you let us know how you get on with the gel. Xx.
I will, I'm starting tomorrow and of course I'll keep you updated.
This has all been helped enourmously by my gp (male) who is lovely and a huge supporter of hrt.
I'm also tapering off amitrypline as I'm sure that stimulates nervous system and has affected my sleep.
I will keep you posted, I will message you so that i have your user name in case I can't find the post later on xx
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Hi discogirl, yes, before going on HRT I had sleep problems, I felt like I was just closing my eyes like I wasn’t sleeping deeply then didn’t feel rested when I woke up. Also I was overheating in bed. Then when I was taking the gel and utrogestan before bed I was feeling wired and found it hard to fall asleep which I realise was due to the gel. So I switched to taking the gel in the morning and the utrogestan at night and I started sleeping deeply and waking up rested, it was amazing. But after a while I got that morning sedated feeling , finding it hard to get my day started and I’ve worked out it’s the utrogestan dose/ regime which I need to sort out. So if I can just do that I will be sorted. I did post about this earlier today but I only got one reply, I will have to see my GP. Sorry that’s a long answer! I hope it’s encouraging for you though to see that it just takes time to work out what works for you. It’s taken me since February to figure this out. Xxx
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Hi Mollydolly,
Thank you so much for telling me that. I'm sorry you went through all of that but glad that you are now alright with no after effects. I must be amazing to not have those issues any more and get on with your life.
In my case I seem to be able to take Utrogestan for about 16 days at 100mg until I get side effects, it's a shame there isn't a lower dosage but then I would be worried about my womb lining. My GP recommends the gel / mirena combination as the best but she said I wouldn't get the sleep benefits from the Mirena and also I would be concerned about getting side effects from a mirena and not being able to take it out immediately like you can just stop taking a pill.
On the Utrogestan leaflet it says take on days 1 to 25 of your therapeutic cycle - do you or anyone know if this means your menstrual cycle and is day 1 the day after your period ends? I have never had to think about all this before and realise how little I know!
I think I will try different Utrogestan regimes and maybe the mirena and if all fails I might end up doing what you've done mollydolly. Did your gynaecologist say your womb would still be protected on 5 nights of Utrogestan and did you have scans to check, were they on the Nhs? Sorry for all the questions, as you say the Utrogestan can really affect your quality of life and I need this sorted soon. I am so thankful for all you ladies. xxx
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Hi Katherine
Although it took time for me to get my oestrogen dose right over the years, for me the absolute killer was the Utrogestan. It was so bad that my Gynaecologist ok'd for me to take for just 7 days of the month. In the end I could only bear it for 5 nights. I know it makes a lot of ladies sleep but for me it was the opposite. I was so agitated throughout the night, tossing and turning. If I took it in the morning I just felt so low. I took it vaginally as well.
I didn't want to try a progesterone that wasn't bioidentical and my gynaecologist said I am severely progesterone intolerant. I hated everything about it. So I took the plunge and had a keyhole hysterectomy. Apart from the Utro I really had had enough of monthly periods that were heavy and as I am 53 I thought I am still young enough to get over the operation and the upside of no more periods and progesterone tablets made my mind up.
It was the best thing I ever did. I had no pain after the op, not even enough to take a paracetamol, no bleeding at all (I still keep checking just in case!) It really was like I had not had anything done. Everything is exactly the same in that area. I do not even have a scar. I know it sounds drastic but I spent most of my life being progesterone intolerant and it was definitely getting worse. Life is too short to suffer if you don't have to but I know its not a decision to be taken lightly.
Hi Mollydolly,
Hope you don't mind me cutting.
Well done though at least you managed to find out that you were prog intolerant.
I'm so glad your hysterectomy went well.
I take the utro vaginally and in the mornings as it doesn't sedate me either and (touch wood) I'm okay on it at the moment.
I hope you're okay today xxx
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Hi Mollydolly,
Thank you so much for telling me that. I'm sorry you went through all of that but glad that you are now alright with no after effects. I must be amazing to not have those issues any more and get on with your life.
In my case I seem to be able to take Utrogestan for about 16 days at 100mg until I get side effects, it's a shame there isn't a lower dosage but then I would be worried about my womb lining. My GP recommends the gel / mirena combination as the best but she said I wouldn't get the sleep benefits from the Mirena and also I would be concerned about getting side effects from a mirena and not being able to take it out immediately like you can just stop taking a pill.
On the Utrogestan leaflet it says take on days 1 to 25 of your therapeutic cycle - do you or anyone know if this means your menstrual cycle and is day 1 the day after your period ends? I have never had to think about all this before and realise how little I know!
I think I will try different Utrogestan regimes and maybe the mirena and if all fails I might end up doing what you've done mollydolly. Did your gynaecologist say your womb would still be protected on 5 nights of Utrogestan and did you have scans to check, were they on the Nhs? Sorry for all the questions, as you say the Utrogestan can really affect your quality of life and I need this sorted soon. I am so thankful for all you ladies. xxx
Hi Katherine,
It's interesting what you say about utro that you can take it for 16days then you get side effects. Would you mind me asking what your side effects are. As I said to Mollydolly, I take mine vaginally in the mornings and I seem ok on it at the moment anyway xxx
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Hi discogirl,
I had that unusually severe asthma attack that I posted on here a few weeks ago and then another mild version of that a few nights ago.
After about 16 days I start to feel sort of sedated like I'm under anaesthesia, like my breathing is suppressed, and sort of lethargic / sedated which makes it really hard for me to start my day and get things done . I find sugary foods give me a boost but I can't always depend on that. I read on the Utrogestan leaflet that it can aggravate asthma.
I think I don't get side effects at first when I've had a break because it takes time to build up in my system. Having said that when I've missed just one night of taking it I feel much better so it can't build up that much. I've missed 2 doses the last 2 nights and currently trying to work out what to do next. my GP says I can take it for 25 days a month but I don't know when the 1st day would be in terms of my cycle. I finished my period on 7th November. Can anyone help me with that? I wish I could just take the Utrogestan when I need it but would worry about my womb lining.
Did your GP recommend you take it vaginally? xxx
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Hi discogirl,
I had that unusually severe asthma attack that I posted on here a few weeks ago and then another mild version of that a few nights ago.
After about 16 days I start to feel sort of sedated like I'm under anaesthesia, like my breathing is suppressed, and sort of lethargic / sedated which makes it really hard for me to start my day and get things done . I find sugary foods give me a boost but I can't always depend on that. I read on the Utrogestan leaflet that it can aggravate asthma.
I think I don't get side effects at first when I've had a break because it takes time to build up in my system. Having said that when I've missed just one night of taking it I feel much better so it can't build up that much. I've missed 2 doses the last 2 nights and currently trying to work out what to do next. my GP says I can take it for 25 days a month but I don't know when the 1st day would be in terms of my cycle. I finished my period on 7th November. Can anyone help me with that? I wish I could just take the Utrogestan when I need it but would worry about my womb lining.
Did your GP recommend you take it vaginally? xxx
Hi Katherine,
Yes I remember about the asthma, sorry.
It must so hard to calculate everything to do with your cycle when you're still having periods.
At least you can take a break from the utro.
I learned about taking it vaginally on here actually and I told my gp, he said he hadn't heard that but that he would check it out, he did and got back to me to say it was fine. It's off licence here in the UK, but other parts of Europe I believe do use the utro vaginally on licence.
I would start a new thread Katherine about when your 1st day would be in terms of your cycle. It may get lost on here.
I'm sorry I can't help you there I no longer have periods.
But I would start a new thread and hopefully someone will be along to help.
Take care xxx
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Hi Katherine
I’m sure day 1 means the day your period starts.
But as I was only taking mine for 7 days I started on day 19. So then once I finished the 7 days worth of Utro I would then get a period from around day 28. Basically mimicking a natural 28 day period cycle that we used to have in our younger days.
I would think 16 days is more than enough to keep the womb lining thin. Yes I did have scans to check mine and it was always well within range even in the 7 days of Utro.
I really hope you manage to sort it. Thinking of you. Xx
Discogirl
Thank you for your good wishes. I hope today is a better day for you. Did you use the gel last night?
Hi Mollydolly,
I put the gel on this morning, I didn't want to use it last night as I think it would be too energized for me.
So I left my patch on last night and took it off this morning and put the gel on.
I will keep you updated. It feels funny though not having a patch on xxx
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thanks mollydolly i hope it does too
thank you xxx
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Hi Discogirl and Mollydolly,
Thank you for the info and support, it is helpful and much appreciated. In terms of the utrogestan, my body decided for me a couple of days ago, I felt I needed it after a break of 2 nights so I took it and have been fine. I have got a new diary and just using to track my HRT and symptoms, and have found that so far, the breathing issue I get always happens at the end of my period or just after the end of it, since I’ve been on utrogestan. Apparently that is when both oestrogen and progesterone levels are at their lowest, so it doesn’t make sense why the utrogestan would be causing this problem at that time of the month. I guess I will just have to continue keeping a diary and keep taking the utrogestan when I can and hopefully a clear pattern and solution will emerge. Maybe a break of 2 or 3 days from the utrogestan will be enough each month.
Discogirl, I hope you are doing ok with the gel, I thought of you this morning and wondered. Also I just remembered this is your thread, not mine, so I will start a new one about this issue if need be. Sorry, I got carried away and forgot it was your thread.
Have a good weekend everyone xxxx
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Hi Discogirl and Mollydolly,
Thank you for the info and support, it is helpful and much appreciated. In terms of the utrogestan, my body decided for me a couple of days ago, I felt I needed it after a break of 2 nights so I took it and have been fine. I have got a new diary and just using to track my HRT and symptoms, and have found that so far, the breathing issue I get always happens at the end of my period or just after the end of it, since I’ve been on utrogestan. Apparently that is when both oestrogen and progesterone levels are at their lowest, so it doesn’t make sense why the utrogestan would be causing this problem at that time of the month. I guess I will just have to continue keeping a diary and keep taking the utrogestan when I can and hopefully a clear pattern and solution will emerge. Maybe a break of 2 or 3 days from the utrogestan will be enough each month.
Discogirl, I hope you are doing ok with the gel, I thought of you this morning and wondered. Also I just remembered this is your thread, not mine, so I will start a new one about this issue if need be. Sorry, I got carried away and forgot it was your thread.
Have a good weekend everyone xxxx
Hi Katherine,
I'm so glad your beginning to find some solutions.
That's so nice to think of me, yes I'm on the gel now and its very early days so in a month or two I should know how things are progressing.
And my thread is your thread, please feel free to use it.
Thanks for all your help Mollydolly and Katherine xxx