Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Katherine on October 12, 2022, 09:35:53 AM
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Hi ladies, just wondering if anyone has experience breathing difficulties after starting on HRT? I actually think I stopped breathing last night in my sleep, I woke up and I couldn’t breathe, my heart was thumping and I thought I might die. It’s the first time this happened. It wasn’t a tight feeling it was almost like I had relaxed too much, I did take my utrogestan only 1.5 hours after food. Utrogestan makes me sleep deep and my gut feeling is it’s related to that. I think will have to stop HRT. I tried to stop utrogestan once but it was too awful. Hopefully I can do it this time. :'(
Quick update- just spoke with GP and he doubts it’s the utrogestan. He thinks it’s acid reflux. He said something about how cortisol levels are lowest at night . I wish I could have recorded the call as I’ve forgotten some of it already! He also said when you withdraw from utrogestan it’s just your old symptoms coming back, but I’m sure I never felt as bad before as I did when withdrawing. He’s suggested preventing acid reflux as the solution so I’ll try that first. Any thoughts or suggestions about any of this are most welcome. :(
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Hi Katherine,
I started my HRT in August and this happened to me only once a few weeks ago when I woke up and couldn't breathe. I'm wondering if it's anxiety connected or something.
I do have palpitations and sleep problems, so I don't know if it was all connected or connected to the HRT but it hasn't happened again xxx
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Hi discogirl, thanks for your message. Sorry to hear you had it too. I don’t think mine was anxiety related as I was in a deep sleep, it felt like a physical issue to me. Glad to hear it hasn’t happened to you again. After posting my message I read on an asthma website that reproductive hormones can affect asthma. I do get asthma but haven’t been getting it if I avoid my usual triggers.xxx
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Ah that's very interesting.
It's like I developed tinnitus in february and I read that low levels of oestrogen can cause tinnitus xxx
xx
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I got tinnitus a few years ago but only when I was lying with my head to one side, it was after I’d been using foam earplugs for years. I stopped using earplugs and it went after a few months. I think they had pushed the wax in and some had touched my eardrum, so my theory is the wax then worked it’s way back out. It’s a pain not knowing what is causing certain symptoms. Have you been to your gp about it discogirl? I knew prolonged load noise or earwax could cause tinnitus but wasn’t aware of the oestrogen link.
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Sorry to hear this Katherine. I wonder if it is asthma. I had childhood asthma but menopause made it return. I have an inhaler I take daily and find it has really helped with the breathlessness. Often I felt I would forget to breathe. You mention you have asthma so you may need the preventive inhaler.
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Hi Katherine,
This is from Women's Internation Pharmacy but there are a lot of other websites regarding the link between tinnitus and hormones:
The onset of tinnitus in women seems to be particularly related to periods of hormone variability. It can be triggered by PMS, perimenopause, menopause and pregnancy. Menopausal symptoms such as sweating, hot flashes and mood changes may correlate with tinnitus.
One 2017 study by Dr. Sharon Curhan reports that low estrogen levels can impair hearing, likely through alterations in blood flow to the cochlea, in both animals and humans. Another study from 2002 found that post-menopausal women with less estradiol (a form of estrogen) were more likely to have hearing loss than those with more.
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That’s interesting discogirl, I didn’t know that and will have a look at your info. Does your HRT help with that?
Flossieteacake, I think I will ask for a preventer inhaler, thanks for the suggestion. think I have worked out what happened. I’ve woken up many times in the past during the night when my throat has closed up and it’s either when the room is too warm or my mouth and throat have dried up when my mouth has been open. But this was different and I think it’s because something triggered it like acid reflux but I was in such a deep sleep due to being exhausted and on utrogestan that I didn’t wake up as quick and I didn’t have the same ‘start’ as I usually get that gets me breathing again quick. Like when I take codeine and it suppresses the respiratory system a bit. It’s like my heart had to do all the work to get me breathing again. I actually wrote notes for my family today in case I die. I am really tempted to come off HRT but I will just try the other things first and see if that works. It does mention asthma on packs of utrogestan and it says on Asthma UK about hormonal effects. I once went to hospital to get checked but couldn’t bear to swallow the tube. I wonder if you can get it done under sedation. Does anyone else feel like the world is really scary when they haven’t slept properly?
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That’s interesting discogirl, I didn’t know that and will have a look at your info. Does your HRT help with that?
Flossieteacake, I think I will ask for a preventer inhaler, thanks for the suggestion. think I have worked out what happened. I’ve woken up many times in the past during the night when my throat has closed up and it’s either when the room is too warm or my mouth and throat have dried up when my mouth has been open. But this was different and I think it’s because something triggered it like acid reflux but I was in such a deep sleep due to being exhausted and on utrogestan that I didn’t wake up as quick and I didn’t have the same ‘start’ as I usually get that gets me breathing again quick. Like when I take codeine and it suppresses the respiratory system a bit. It’s like my heart had to do all the work to get me breathing again. I actually wrote notes for my family today in case I die. I am really tempted to come off HRT but I will just try the other things first and see if that works. It does mention asthma on packs of utrogestan and it says on Asthma UK about hormonal effects. I once went to hospital to get checked but couldn’t bear to swallow the tube. I wonder if you can get it done under sedation. Does anyone else feel like the world is really scary when they haven’t slept properly?
I am so sorry you feel so bas you wrote notes for your family. :'(
It is scary waking suddenly or not having a good sleep.
When I had an edoscopy they gave me local anastetic and I did not feel or remember anything. I hope that reassures you a bit.
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I think I would have to be under a general or heavily sedated to have an endoscopy. If nothing else works I might ask for one but I’ll try a preventative inhaler first. Thanks ladies for answering . X
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I think I would have to be under a general or heavily sedated to have an endoscopy. If nothing else works I might ask for one but I’ll try a preventative inhaler first. Thanks ladies for answering . X
I am sure they would do that for you if you asked. They are used to nervous patients now.
Are you okay?
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Flossieteacake, yes, I’m ok thank you, just really tired but daren’t sleep in case the same thing happens again. I can’t function so just in bed and my partner is coming over to stay the night then I’ll sleep. I only wrote the notes in case I die of breathing difficulties, I’m not suicidal or anything. Thanks for asking. If I am sleeping well I feel fine and can usually cope with anything but I’ve not been sleeping well since moving. Hopefully everything will settle soon. X
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Flossieteacake, yes, I’m ok thank you, just really tired but daren’t sleep in case the same thing happens again. I can’t function so just in bed and my partner is coming over to stay the night then I’ll sleep. I only wrote the notes in case I die of breathing difficulties, I’m not suicidal or anything. Thanks for asking. If I am sleeping well I feel fine and can usually cope with anything but I’ve not been sleeping well since moving. Hopefully everything will settle soon. X
I am so sorry you are frightened to go to sleep. That is horrible for you. I hope your partner arrives soon and you can sleep.
I always feel my mood is so low when I cannot sleep. I can understand this is making you feel that way too.
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That’s interesting discogirl, I didn’t know that and will have a look at your info. Does your HRT help with that?
Flossieteacake, I think I will ask for a preventer inhaler, thanks for the suggestion. think I have worked out what happened. I’ve woken up many times in the past during the night when my throat has closed up and it’s either when the room is too warm or my mouth and throat have dried up when my mouth has been open. But this was different and I think it’s because something triggered it like acid reflux but I was in such a deep sleep due to being exhausted and on utrogestan that I didn’t wake up as quick and I didn’t have the same ‘start’ as I usually get that gets me breathing again quick. Like when I take codeine and it suppresses the respiratory system a bit. It’s like my heart had to do all the work to get me breathing again. I actually wrote notes for my family today in case I die. I am really tempted to come off HRT but I will just try the other things first and see if that works. It does mention asthma on packs of utrogestan and it says on Asthma UK about hormonal effects. I once went to hospital to get checked but couldn’t bear to swallow the tube. I wonder if you can get it done under sedation. Does anyone else feel like the world is really scary when they haven’t slept properly?
Hi Katherine,
I do actually find my hrt helps it; I'm also on a very low dose 10mg of amitrypline a day and I find both of those together seem to really really help xxx
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Thank you so much ladies I really find comfort in your replies. My partner is here now and I already feel better. I will look up your medication discogirl. Xx
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Thank you so much ladies I really find comfort in your replies. My partner is here now and I already feel better. I will look up your medication discogirl. Xx
I hope you get a good sleep. Sleep well. :)
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anything else i can help with please let me know xxxx
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Thank you xxxx
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Hi ladies, just to let you know I feel better today and nothing bad happened last night. My partner took me out for a meal to take my mind off it and I didn’t take my utrogestan last night. Although I did keep waking up I do like the feeling of not feeling so sedated in the morning and also I’m taking big deep breaths again instead of shallow breathing. I want to try coming off HRT for now as I still have regular periods and I want to see if my symptoms of falling oestrogen are actually better than my HRT side effects. Mind you I did say this a few months ago and couldn’t manage to withdraw from utrogestan, but time will tell! I think it’s trial and error really as everyone seems to be affected differently. Xxx
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Thank you for the update. I am relieved to hear last night was better for you. I do not like feeling sedated either so I totally understand what you are saying.
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Thank you Flossieteacake, I'm so glad you and discogirl were there for me yesterday. I am going to try and be there for others more on here from now on. I have limited knowledge but will help when I can. x
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You are so welcome. Please do not feel any pressure to support others. I know when struggling sometimes that can be difficult and that is totally fine. :)
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Hi ladies, just to let you know I feel better today and nothing bad happened last night. My partner took me out for a meal to take my mind off it and I didn’t take my utrogestan last night. Although I did keep waking up I do like the feeling of not feeling so sedated in the morning and also I’m taking big deep breaths again instead of shallow breathing. I want to try coming off HRT for now as I still have regular periods and I want to see if my symptoms of falling oestrogen are actually better than my HRT side effects. Mind you I did say this a few months ago and couldn’t manage to withdraw from utrogestan, but time will tell! I think it’s trial and error really as everyone seems to be affected differently. Xxx
I'm glad you were better last night.
Well, keep coming on here as this site is not just for women who take HRT but for all women undergoing peri or menopause.
Keep in touch and let us know how you get on xxx
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Thanks ladies I will definitely keep coming back here whatever happens xxx
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Hi again ladies, I’ve done a bit of research and it seems that utrogestan can aggravate asthma and apparently you need supervision while taking it if you have asthma. Forgive me if I’ve said this already my mind is about goldfish like right now! Anyway I haven’t had utrogestan for 3 nights now and I’ve had no withdrawal symptoms so far this time, in fact I feel better as I feel like I’m now breathing fuller deeper breaths and am less tired. I hope it continues! I have joined a gym to try and improve my fitness and try and avoid losing lung capacity. Does anyone know if I can continue with estradiol vaginal tabs if I’m not taking progesterone?
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You can use V.A treatment without progesterone. Thank goodness you realised it was the ultrogestan that was aggravated your asthma. Sad how doctors do not read our medical history before dispensing medication.
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I know, I am cross that I was not warned it was a risk, I will never forget that asthma attack, it’s like nothing I’ve ever experienced before and to be honest I feel lucky to be alive.
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I know, I am cross that I was not warned it was a risk, I will never forget that asthma attack, it’s like nothing I’ve ever experienced before and to be honest I feel lucky to be alive.
It is appalling you had to go through that. I remember how frightened you have been of having more breathing difficulties.
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Flossie just to let you know I’m not frightened anymore as I am confident it was the Utrogestan that either caused it or greatly aggravated it so as long as I don’t take it I think I’ll be ok. I’m surprised I haven’t had any withdrawal symptoms and actually have more energy. X
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I'm glad you managed to find out what was causing it Katherine.
It does take away the fear when you know what's causing it.
I'm surprised your gp didn't flag this up mind.
xxxx
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Hi discogirl, thank you. I know, it’s quite alarming about not being warned. I might have seen it in the leaflet in the box but I can’t remember, but even so you would assume your gp would check. In future I’ll be checking myself! Xxxx
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Flossie just to let you know I’m not frightened anymore as I am confident it was the Utrogestan that either caused it or greatly aggravated it so as long as I don’t take it I think I’ll be ok. I’m surprised I haven’t had any withdrawal symptoms and actually have more energy. X
I am so happy to read this! Thank goodness you worked out what was causing the breathing difficulty. It is great to hear you have more energy too. :)
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Thank you Flossie ! :) xxx
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Hi ladies, it seems my burst of energy was short lived, I am now either having withdrawal symptoms or my old symptoms have come back but are worse. I feel physically and mentally exhausted, achy, hot, anxious and low.
I saw a gp a few days ago and asked him to prescribe a preventer inhaler but he refused and said I need to see an asthma nurse first but my appointment is in 2 weeks.
In the middle of the night I took 2 pumps of estrogel and immediately felt a bit better but that was short lived. I am thinking of risking it and taking a utrogestan every other night so I can take the estrogel as I can’t function and in bed for 2 days. I have an appointment with my usual female go next week so I’m hoping she can help me out of this situation.
In the meantime could anyone tell me my other options for taking progesterone and their possible side effects so I’m prepared for my gp appointment? I was thinking one option is to take my blue inhaler before bed to reduce chances of an asthma attack. Xxx
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Hello Katherine.
I know nothing of asthma but I can suggest Cyclogest as a different progesterone. It is a waxy pessary that is usually used for fertility treatment and comes in strengths of 200mcg or 4000mcg. I have been using this instead of Utrogestan which I have taken orally and vaginally in the past.
There may be a problem in that I am with a private menopause clinic and your GP may not be able to prescribe Cyclogest for the menopause. Perhaps an alternative will be available to try however.
I hope this is of some help and I wish you well.
K.
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Hi kathleen, thank you for the information and your good wishes. X
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Oh no! I am sorry the symptoms returned. The blue inhaler will not prevent any asthma. It is helpful for when the asthma symptoms are present. You need an actual preventative inhaler. How annoying you have to wait for 2 weeks to see the nurse. I guess they want to test your peak flow by breathing into one of those breath tests.
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Hi Flossie, yes, they are going to do some tests. I wonder why gps will prescribe a blue inhaler without tests but not a preventative one.
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Hi ladies, it seems my burst of energy was short lived, I am now either having withdrawal symptoms or my old symptoms have come back but are worse. I feel physically and mentally exhausted, achy, hot, anxious and low.
I saw a gp a few days ago and asked him to prescribe a preventer inhaler but he refused and said I need to see an asthma nurse first but my appointment is in 2 weeks.
In the middle of the night I took 2 pumps of estrogel and immediately felt a bit better but that was short lived. I am thinking of risking it and taking a utrogestan every other night so I can take the estrogel as I can’t function and in bed for 2 days. I have an appointment with my usual female go next week so I’m hoping she can help me out of this situation.
In the meantime could anyone tell me my other options for taking progesterone and their possible side effects so I’m prepared for my gp appointment? I was thinking one option is to take my blue inhaler before bed to reduce chances of an asthma attack. Xxx
Hi Katherine,
I'm so sorry you're having problems again. Is it the breathing difficulties again?
Sorry if I asked you this before, but have you tried utro before vaginally ? I take it vaginally and I take it first thing in the morning, I wonder if this may help.
I do hope you get sorted, I can imagine how anxious this must make you. It may be a good idea to try taking your blue inhaler before bed if you can take the inhaler this way xxxx
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Hi discogirl, I stopped taking my HRT abruptly after the breathing episode last Wednesday and in the last 2 days been feeling rotten which I think is due to the hormonal shift combined with my personal problems. I haven’t got breathing difficulties now but I darent take my HRT incase it causes the breathing episode to happen again. I can’t see my gp either until next week so I’m in limbo at the moment. Anyway I have coped by not doing anything today at all and just avoided life.
I haven’t taken utrogestan vaginally no, I’m not sure that would reduce the risk as it’s still going in your body and bloodstream? Do you feel different when you take it vaginally?
My gp told me to take anti histamines every day to help my asthma. Flossie says taking the blue inhaler won’t prevent an attack.
Thanks so much for posting. It’s not like me to not function. I’m determined to resume life again tomorrow. I might try taking my oestrogen and the utrogestan vaginally in the morning like you said then if it causes asthma at least I will be awake and prepared.
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Hi discogirl, I stopped taking my HRT abruptly after the breathing episode last Wednesday and in the last 2 days been feeling rotten which I think is due to the hormonal shift combined with my personal problems. I haven’t got breathing difficulties now but I darent take my HRT incase it causes the breathing episode to happen again. I can’t see my gp either until next week so I’m in limbo at the moment. Anyway I have coped by not doing anything today at all and just avoided life.
I haven’t taken utrogestan vaginally no, I’m not sure that would reduce the risk as it’s still going in your body and bloodstream? Do you feel different when you take it vaginally?
My gp told me to take anti histamines every day to help my asthma. Flossie says taking the blue inhaler won’t prevent an attack.
Thanks so much for posting. It’s not like me to not function. I’m determined to resume life again tomorrow. I might try taking my oestrogen and the utrogestan vaginally in the morning like you said then if it causes asthma at least I will be awake and prepared.
Hi Katherine,
Firstly, if you feel you need to take time out, go with the flow. Life is so fast paced now, we all have to work hard at relaxing.
The antihistamine sounds like a good idea.
I do find taking the utro PV and in the morning helps, I try and push it as far as I can (sorry for tmi) and I sit down for about half an hour and I try to use the loo before I put the utro in. And as you say if you do take the utro this way and in the morning then at least you'll be awake if anything does happen.
One thing I have learned with hrt is you can't rush it and I do need to give things time; patience is not easy for me!!!
Keep in touch Katherine, all the very best xxx
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Hi Discogirl, I think you are right about the relaxing. I will try taking my HRT the same way as you in the morning. No, not tmi, I need all the help I can get. I think something good has come out of this. I didn’t think my HRT was doing much and didn’t know if I was doing the right thing taking it but now I know how much it was doing and that I do need it. I think I must have changed my mind about HRT several times now in a few months! Oh well I guess it’s all learning.
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i think the problem is the lack of information from gp's.
all my information i got from this site.
i do find tbe way and time i take the utro very helpful and apparantely it doesnt matter when you take it so long as you make sure its far enough up and try to use loo beforehand.
as with anything it does take time for the body to get used to hrt. i think the mistake i made was not giving things enough time.
keep in touch katherine xxxx
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It it worth trying the blue inhaler before bed to see if it can help. It will not do any harm. I think the GP may want you to have an appointment for the preventative inhaler as it is stronger. I personally think they should go by your symptoms. I got mine with a phone appointment and bought a peak flow test to give them the readings. I think all GPs have different ideas.
Discogirls suggestion of trying the ultrogestan vaginally is worth a try. It may be a way you can take it without getting the breathing difficulties. I would give it a go just to check.
I find often with medications we may not be aware of how they were helping until we stop them. At least you now know HRT is benefiting you.
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I agree that gps should prescribe inhalers based on symptoms. The one I saw wasn’t my usual gp and said he had a procedure to follow. It makes no sense- giving me one temporary preventative inhaler could have made me feel safe to continue my HRT and avoid these horrible feelings but instead they let you suffer. I mean the inhaler wouldn’t have killed me would it. Oh well, I’m so glad you ladies have rallied round and given me a temporary solution. Xxx
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I agree that gps should prescribe inhalers based on symptoms. The one I saw wasn’t my usual gp and said he had a procedure to follow. It makes no sense- giving me one temporary preventative inhaler could have made me feel safe to continue my HRT and avoid these horrible feelings but instead they let you suffer. I mean the inhaler wouldn’t have killed me would it. Oh well, I’m so glad you ladies have rallied round and given me a temporary solution. Xxx
Perhaps you can send a message or ask to talk to your regular GP and say you would like to try the preventative inhaler now? It is not fair you have to wait when you are worried.
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Hi Flossie, I have an appointment for Tuesday so I will ask her then. X
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Hi Flossie, I have an appointment for Tuesday so I will ask her then. X
I hope the appointment goes well.
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Thank you Flossie xxx
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I ended up taking a utrogestan orally last night when I went to bed as I couldn’t cope any longer. I felt nearly back to normal almost immediately. I’ll still have to sort this out properly with my gp though to ensure I’m not taking any risks.
Discogirl can I ask if you have taken Utrogestan orally before and if so does it feel any different mentally than if you take it vaginally?
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Hi Katherine,
I only took it orally for about 7 days I would say, as I knew utrogestan had a lot of negative side effects (as well as positive ones) I wanted to keep anything that could disrupt my sleep out of the equation (even though it's meant to help with sleep)
here is a link from MM it's an old post regarding how utro can cause insomnia in some women:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=50706.0
so when I read that given that since feb my sleep was horrific anyway I didn't want to take the chance so I changed to taking the utro PV in the mornings, as I figured it can get straight to where it's meant to using it PV and in the mornings means there's less chance of any unwanted side effects at night. I don't think the half life of utro is too long.
However having said all that many women take it orally xxxx
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Hi discogirl, it’s good that you have found the best way of taking utrogestan for you. It seems to be a case of trial and error doesn’t it. I just looked up the half life of utrogestan and I think it said up to 18 hours. I think I am going to trial taking it every other night, I think Marchlove said she does this. Before i started taking utrogestan I felt like I wasn’t going into a deep sleep and waking up I refreshed but utrogestan has made me sleep deep and dream more so it helps me but I think it’s just slightly too high a dose for me. I will check out your link, thanks for all the info and support discogirl. X
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Hi Katherine,
to be honest as my sleep is shocking now, I would love to try utro at night to see if it helps me sleep but after reading those posts I'm too scared to try it, so for now I will keep on taking it PV every morning.
Let me know how you get on taking it every other day, do you take it orally or PV?
xxxx
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Hi discogirl, I wish I could reassure you about taking utrogestan before bed as it’s been a game changer for me. If I can just get the dose right and sort out my asthma I’m hoping I can continue doing so. I take it orally at the moment. I will let you know how I get on. I’m so sorry your sleep is shocking. I have struggled with insomnia since my teens do I really understand. Even now with Utrogestan if I’m really worried about something I can lie awake for hours. I went swimming the other night and then slept really well so it seems evening exercise might help me. What did it say about utrogestan in the posts that put you off?
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hi katherine.
just a few women on the post said that it caused disturbed sleep etc.
however it is meant to relax and help sleep. ive always always slept really well until february that is.
ive just upped my patch from 37.5 to 50 once ive settled on that i may change to taking it PV at night.
i really hope you can get tbe right dose. i hope your asthma improves it must be so frightening.
i really dont know what i'd do without this forum xxxx
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Same here discogirl, this forum has been hugely helpful to me, not just the info but also the support xxxx