Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Postmenopause => Topic started by: Spymamma on August 20, 2022, 01:41:43 PM
-
Dear all,
I'm 57 years young and have suffered from physical symptoms of anxiety since becoming menopausal (although endometrial ablation has fuzzed exactly when this happened). Treated with antidepressants very successfully until the citalopram (and subsequent ssri tablets tried) suddenly began giving me total body sweats. Three showers a day and four changes of clothing. Mirtazapine was also then tried. Excellent until it reduced my pulse rate to 37 beats per minute. Of course, this knocked out the possibility of beta blockers too.
So I was withdrawn off the Mirtazapine and my lovely lady GP put me on Oestragel (1pump a day) and utrogestan 100mg a day orally. For three weeks I was really well. Then, just as it had during my two pregnancies, at three weeks the increased anxiety, crying and some depression hit me like a brick.
Back to my GP. She increased my oestragel to two pumps a day and is looking into my taking the utrogestan vaginally. I speak to her again on Thursday.
I have to admit to not taking my utrogestan for the last two days to see if it would help.
And, the morning is hell, the gel apply cation relieves my depression for about an hour, then it's back to crying on the sofa.
Do any of you have any advice or stories to help? I'm really not feeling at all well. I'm widowed, my children are far away or going through their own issues and my parents are frail. Thank you, ladies
-
:bighug:
When did you last have a full blood count to include thyroid function and VitD levels? Many do not get on with progesterone. U may feel better using it vaginally or on a long length regime, where you will require regular womb scans to check the lining.
It may take a few days for any HRT to leave the body. What are your periods doing?
-
Cold thank you for replying. So lovely to hear from you. I've Found your other posts so reassuring.
I had full blood count, thyroid, liver, kidney function, blood glucose and ECG performed just before commencing hrt. All were normal but still awaiting the results of 24 hour ECG.
Haven't had period since endometrial ablation for spotting between periods.
With love
Anne
-
If the blood tests are within normal limits it's probably the Utrogestan?
Let us know how you get on. U could put the product names singly into the search box to see if any threads pop up, make notes.
-
CKLD (sorry about the auto correct in my earlier reply),
I think it's probably the utrogestan too. The similarity between now and both times I was pregnant are too compelling to be ignored.
Does anybody here have experience like this? And, if so, did they persevere? Did the anxiety/depression then get better? Or was it all a no go?
With thanks in anticipation x
-
Hopefully someone with HRT knowledge will be along.
-
Hello Anne. I really am sorry to hear what you are going through. I became very depressed taking Utrogestan, even vaginally. This could be making your mood lower. I had to stop taking it as I could not cope with the severe depression.
I know you have tried citalopram and mirtazapine and these had bad side effects. I was wondering if trying a different anxiety medication may be an idea. There are lots more that could be tried.
Is it possible the citalopram was not making you sweat but you were having hot flashes?
Menopause can be so lonely especially if others are not going through it as they may not understand. It is good you have found the forum. :)
-
Dear Flossiecake (what a wonderful handle).
If I have to come off the Utrogestan, then I'm hoping to try Duloxetine.
I did consider that the sweats from the SSRI's were just hot flashes. But they went away within 48hrs of my stopping the tablets and didn't happen at all with the Mirtazapine. A slow heart rate of 37 beats per minute and a raised cholesterol level (another side effect of mirtazapine and no family or personal history of lipideamia) saw that one off. A big shame as both AD's worked well psychologically.
X fingers I can find my way out of this, as I feel my golden years (and my job) slipping away
-
Dear Flossiecake (what a wonderful handle).
If I have to come off the Utrogestan, then I'm hoping to try Duloxetine.
I did consider that the sweats from the SSRI's were just hot flashes. But they went away within 48hrs of my stopping the tablets and didn't happen at all with the Mirtazapine. A slow heart rate of 37 beats per minute and a raised cholesterol level (another side effect of mirtazapine and no family or personal history of lipideamia) saw that one off. A big shame as both AD's worked well psychologically.
X fingers I can find my way out of this, as I feel my golden years (and my job) slipping away
That makes sense. It must have been the medication as the hot flashes went away when you stopped it.
It can take time to find the right HRT. Do not despair. I understand what you mean by things slipping away. There are still many more options for you and if your GP is at a loss then you can ask to see a menopause clinic.
You are not alone on here.
-
Thank you, Flossiecake c
-
Spymamma in the first instance, I'd take the utrogestan vaginally and see if that helps. For some people, they still get the systemic symptoms of low mood - but for many women, it really helps and they don't get the same side effects.
You won't know unless you try. :)
-
Dearest Joziel,
Thank you for your reply. I'm certainly going to keep going for a while and hopefully my GP will come back to me with some resolution to my dilemma.
Haven't taken my progesterone for two nights and feel the depression is more confined to the mornings/early afternoons as a result.
(I also eat properly and exercise like a good girl)
Obviously I can't continue to omit my progesterone, but I hope that I may find a regime that works as my cholesterol has raised in recent months (God knows why) and my heart is doing funny things in my chest which does not bode well for future health.
To all of you who have replied to my plea, I send my most sincere thanks, topped off with a big c. ('c' is for 'cwtch'- the very best of Welsh hugs)
-
Well my heart is also doing very funny things in my chest at the moment and I'm waiting for a cardiology appointment to check it out - I think many of us have been there, if that helps at all - you're not alone there. Fortunately for most people it's nothing serious :) Stay positive :)
-
Thank you, Joziel and good luck
-
Hi
I'm not much help regarding hrt as I'm struggling myself with the estrogel and 100mg Utrogestan.
Over last few few ive been using patches until they became unavailable reason I ended up on this present regime
My body seems to accept the Utrogestan ok-ish through the patch but definitely not the tablet, I've stopped using the tablet on Thursday as it's making me feel. Dry same as you, il call hrt clinic tomorrow as asked to put back on to patch as I believe the patches are now available..
Hopefully you feel better soon
Kaz X
-
Spymamma
Lots of us struggle with the progesterone part of hrt it’s probably the most common problem on the forum. I’m one of them (those who don’t are so lucky). In my quest to resolve the issue I’ve been given lots of advice, both on this site and via nhs and private specialists. Here are the suggestions:
1) Try a different progesterone (I’ve tried so many and struggle with them all).
2) Try utrogestan vaginally (I still suffer the side effects).
3) Try utrogestan for the minimum time possible to minimise side effects. This is basically the late Prof Studd’s regime of 7 x utrogestan vaginally (not to be undertaken without supervision and regular scans). This is the only way I can tolerate utrogestan and works for me. (Although I still suffer the utrogestan withdrawal effects when I come off it).
Incidentally anti depressants shouldn’t be offered as a first line treatment for menopause symptoms unless of course you have long standing depression which is a separate issue.
Hope this helps. Any questions just ask x
-
Thank you for your reply, Karen. Xx
-
Dear perinowpost,
Thank you for your advice. I speak to my GP on Thursday and am going to ask about combined hrt patches.
As I've posted before, I was very depressed during both my pregnancies, which is now known to be caused by progesterone. Unusually, prior to these times, I was on the combined contraceptive pill (for contraceptive purposes) and was fine. But this, of course, was in my twenties. Over thirty years ago.
My only other choice, from reading your kind replies, is to come off HRT altogether and deal with the anxiety that led me here some other way.
I'm seriously unable to cope with the morning crying, anxiety and hopelessness a day longer. Even though this now seems to resolve towards the afternoon. By night time I feel calm but tired. Then it's Utrogestan time again and the morning is a new, fresh hell.
Does anyone have any positive experiences of switching from the gel/tablet combo to combined patches or even to utrogestan vaginally and oestrogen patches?
Thank you ladies. X
-
Spymamma I feel for you, it’s horrible when the balance is off isn’t it. One of the reasons why I know what works is I introduced everything separately. I feel good on oestrogen but then feel I need a little prog about 2/3 weeks in, but not too much (if this makes sense), as it soon overwhelms me. Basically we are still in a cycle even at this age, and I feel best if I can replicate this.
Re solutions for you. Have you tried patches? I use evorel 50 and find they give a more consistent dose of oestrogen than gel (for me anyway, some ladies swear by gel).
Secondly I would definitely swap to utrogestan vaginally as less side effects that way. But also could you try utro minimally (eg 7 days) with regular scans to check your womb lining? They’re between £80 to £100, I have mine annually, I’ve been on this regime 7 years and no issues so far.
Whatever you decide keep us posted. Wishing you well xx
-
Thank you, Perinowpost,
Tbh, I think I'm coming to the end of my tolerance.
I went on this five weeks ago to help with anxiety symptoms.
These ramped up through the roof with added doses of agitation and depression
Lying on the sofa all day, crying and deep breathing, unable to go to work.
I think it's time to throw in the towel
-
Thank you, Perinowpost,
Tbh, I think I'm coming to the end of my tolerance.
I went on this five weeks ago to help with anxiety symptoms.
These ramped up through the roof with added doses of agitation and depression
Lying on the sofa all day, crying and deep breathing, unable to go to work.
I think it's time to throw in the towel
I agree with your decision. You cannot go on feeling so distressed. I hope your DR can find something that is more suitable for you.
-
Spymama, you mentioned there that you were fine with a combined contraceptive pill for many years.
I wonder which pill that was? As it sounds like you were okay with whatever the progestin was, in that pill. It might be an idea to try a HRT which uses the same progestin.
Ie - if it was levonorgestrel, to try the Femseven patches. Or even the Mirena coil (which is levonorgestrel but only a tiny amount and locally delivered to the uterus so not much of it gets into your blood) and then separate estrogen.
If it was norethisterone, to try the Evorel Sequi/Conti patches.
What was the progestin in your combined pill? If you don't know, what was the name of the combined pill you were on?
-
**********UPDATE******
Have just spoken to my GP, ladies, and she also thinks that I'm one of the 20% of ladies that can't tolerate progesterone.
So it's off the HRT and to try antidepressants to help manage my mood symptoms (can't call it 'mood swings' as I'm permanently either excessively down, anxious or tired.
I'd like to thank you all for your advice and friendship, without which the last week's would have been intolerable.
I'll, of course, keep you all updated.
I also wish you luck with your own journeys
Anne x
-
I hope your menopause symptoms are okay without HRT. I know some people take oestrogen alone and have regular scans to ensure no thickening of their lining.
You can continue to use the forum for support or just to chat. :) I hope the antidepressant helps.
-
I'm sorry to hear that Spymamma. I don't think you've exhausted all options with the progesterone situation to be able to conclude that really.
1) You haven't tried a progesterone which was the same as the pill you tolerated for years previously.
2) You haven't tried the utrogestan vaginally.
3) You haven't tried the Mirena coil.
I get that not all women can tolerate HRT (I myself might be one of them, with my reaction to estrogen) but personally I wouldn't want to accept that unless I'd investigated all options available - due to the long-term health benefits of HRT. It's not about managing short term symptoms with anti-depressants, it's about reducing the risk of dementia, osteoporosis, bowel cancer, skin and joint and muscle changes, metabolism and gut health and so on....
Perhaps take a break from it, but for sure I wouldn't give up on it altogether without trying everything possible and seeking specialist help.
-
I’ve got to say I agree with Joziel + GP’s are too handy at giving out anti-depressants like smarties to shut women up. Of course it’s your choice Spymamma just wouldn’t want to see you short changed x
-
Hi Spymamma, how are things going for you? Have things been sorted. See you had ADs that helped.... did you have many side effects or withdrawal effects. I am on Citalopram and trying to taper off but having side / withdrawal effects. Any advice would be welcomed. thank you. x
-
Hi all I’m three months in with Utrogestan and Oestrogel and my mood was good the first few weeks but now I’m really low and also feeling bloated and constipation. I’m 7 years post menopause and apart from a low mood at times was over the worst I’ve been on citalopram for 18 months which worked quite well, my GP suggested hrt but I’m not liking what it’s doing to me with regards to the mood and bloating. I’ve decided it’s not for me as feel worse than I did before . Seems hrt is not a miracle cure. I couldn’t take the pill when I was younger and think my body just doesn’t like extra hormones which is a shame . Good luck to all you lovely ladies it seems a minefield doesn’t it .
-
Glad you’ve found something that gives you relief Jules.smithy. Sometimes it takes a few attempts to get the right balance with hrt. It is important to say also that anti-d’s don’t deal with the long term side effects of lack of oestrogen x
-
Hi all
For what it’s worth, following intolerable symptoms from taking utrogestan/estrogel combined (fluid retention, uncontrolled bloating and weight gain) I discovered (through lots of experimentation) that the recommended progest. dose (100 mg daily or even once every two days vaginally) is far too much for me when combined with the gel.
Got on fairly well with subsequent Evorel Conti patch, which I chose due to the low dose oestrogen/progest. e.g. weight gain slowed and slightly less bloating. However, I’ve just a week ago changed back to utrogestan and Evorel 25 combo BUT I’m taking the progesterone vaginally every 3 days as I’ve read that some women on here have tried it under their GP supervision.
So far so good and I’ve started to lose a little of the weight and fluid retention. I need to go back to see my specialist for a medical view on me taking progest. every 3 days as it’s obviously less often than recommended. I reckon that being on such a low dose of oestrogen, it should be ok, but need to check.
On a side note, sometimes when my joints hurt, I take a tiny squirt of the estrogel I had left over from my first HRT regime and it sorts it! Worth mentioning because, like many ladies on here report, I may have to adjust my dosing further down the line - which I dread if it means increasing progesterone!
In which case, I’ll have to explore a different option for progesterone…
-
Do you get any prog withdrawals on x3 days Furyan? I was offered it every other night as an option by my specialist but couldn’t hack the withdrawals x
-
Interesting question - I did on the very first three day cycle, horrendous shakiness, feeling spaced out, panicky and heart palpitations. I took it on the third day and obviously it subsided but it hasn’t happened since. Maybe my body has got used to expecting a progesterone boost every 3 days, who knows? I just hope I can continue like this as I’m tired of this minefield called HRT! There are other options for progesterone - mirena, although synthetic, apparently gives off a very low dose so might have fewer side effects (women report variable experiences). Worse case scenario is for me to go back to Evorel conti which, although I felt quite settled with it, I want to stick with body identical hormones as far as possible.
-
Interesting. Yes I had to have the mirena removed after trialling it for 6 months, it was terrible for me (as a prog intolerant) and I would never advocate it. I would be the same re body identical x
-
Interesting. Yes I had to have the mirena removed after trialling it for 6 months, it was terrible for me (as a prog intolerant) and I would never advocate it. I would be the same re body identical x
I had similar with Mirena- was in so much pain. I can just about tolerate the utrogestan for 12 days a month. Some months are worse than others symptom-wise . Oddly enough i faired much better on nortithisterone. They gave me huge doses of it to try and stop the awful non stop and increasingly heavy bleeding i had when the Mirena was in situ. I was ok on it.