Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Hopeful2 on July 23, 2022, 09:42:37 AM
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Been using a pea sized amount of estriol cream everyday. Dr said it was ok but my lips are all swollen this morning. Panicking as usual. Guess I should stop the cream for a bit?
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Sorry to be dim Hopeful but which lips - on the face or the other end?
If it's the other end I would assume it's the Estriol cream doing what it's meant to do - plumping things up.
Estriol cream is really quite weak, think it's only 0.01% active ingredient.
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If it's your labia, that sounds pretty normal. It's a sign it's working and getting moisture back in there.
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Its the lips on my face. It has plumped everything up down there too which I was surprised as ive been using it a few weeks now never used it before. But my actual lips are plumped up too. I suppose it will go down in a day or two I suffer from panic attacks so panicking as usual.
Thanks so much for your reply.
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I often get swollen lips (facial). I notice it is when I increase oestrogen. It settles in a few days time.
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Thank you so much for your reply. Can't say how much I appreciate it.
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Thank you so much for your reply. Can't say how much I appreciate it.
You are most welcome. :)
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Criky panic would have set in here :o ..... as creams aren't supposed to infiltrate the reminder of the body.
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I think the only thing to be cautious of, is whether it's an allergy to something else in the cream.
There are other local estrogen creams (ie Ovestin) you can try, which will have other added ingredients besides estrogen if you want to give that a try to see...
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I know these creams do go systemic when first used until the dry tissues are plumped up, but very little should then. Are you using the cream internally or just on the labia? It seems strange it's reached your mouth lips. Is your tongue swollen, could it be an allergic reaction to either the cream or maybe something else?
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I checked your previous posts and saw you are using femeston. I wonder if the oestrogen in that is causing your lips to swell. It was a while after using Evorel that my lips would swell. You could always mention it to your GP just to see what they think.
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Thank you for all your kind replies. I eventually got a GP apt for this evening. I have trace of blood when wiping now too, but I think Estriol can cause spotting. So fed up it was really helping below, but with sore mouth and spotting now I dont know what to do. I'm crying everyday feel so hopeless.
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I'd suggest trying a different brand of local estrogen. Try Vagifem pessaries and some Ovestin cream just on the outside.
Local estrogen shouldn't cause spotting at all, unless you have for eg endometriosis deposits inside your vagina/on cervix. Otherwise there's not really a logical way for such a tiny dose put in the vagina (not uterus) to cause spotting.
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Thank you for all your kind replies. I eventually got a GP apt for this evening. I have trace of blood when wiping now too, but I think Estriol can cause spotting. So fed up it was really helping below, but with sore mouth and spotting now I dont know what to do. I'm crying everyday feel so hopeless.
I am really sorry to hear you are feeling this way but I think it is understandable. Finding the right HRT can be very tiring and your symptoms are not nice for you. It is good you have an appointment later.
I agree with joziel. There are other things for vaginal atrophy so please try not to feel there is nothing you can take. Sending you a virtual hug.
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I'd just add that vaginal atrophy in itself can cause spotting if it is dry and sore up there. Just like when you get tiny cracks in your hands when they are very dry and they bleed.... So the spotting could be due to that and it might go away if you continue to treat with local estrogen.
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Thank you for your kind replies.
Ovestin is stronger than Estriol I think so if I can't get on with Estriol could I get on with Ovestin. Every time I take any hrt my lips get sore & swollen.
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I don't think your lips are getting swollen due to the estrogen. There's no way the tiny amount of estrogen applied to your vagina could be causing your lips to swell in a totally different location...!! There is the same amount of estrogen in a year's worth of local estrogen as there is in one single oral HRT pill.... that's the amount we're talking about. It's just not going to cause the symptoms you're seeing.
If they are due to anything you're using at the moment, it will be some kind of allergic reaction to one of the other ingredients in the cream - and every brand of estrogen uses different extra ingredients. Vagifem, being a tablet you insert, uses less 'other stuff' than any of the creams so is arguably the best one to try....
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Thank you for your reply Joziel.
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Did you find out what caused your lips to swell? How are you feeling now?
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Hi flossyteacake
Thank you for your kind message.
I just used estriol cream down below again after a few weeks break and my lips immediately have swollen up again I know you said after using Everol for a while this happened to you too, did you stop Everol then or did it settle down? It looks like I've had BOTOX straight away after using it. Im red raw down there with atrophy dont know what to do. They gave me vagirux pessaries too never tried them but scared to try them now as that's probably stronger.
Also stopped Femoston nearly 2 weeks ago as it made my scalp all sore and it's not recovered yet. So I'm taking nothing now. Was hoping femseven sequi would come into stock so I can try that. My GP doesn't know what to suggest.
Sorry to go on. Its the weekend now getting myself in a right state panicking. Feel like I won't ever get help with anything and feeling hopeless ☹
If anyone has any ideas of what I can do next I would appreciate it. Thank you
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Sorry Flossieteacake just realised I spelt your name wrong 🙃
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Hi flossyteacake
Thank you for your kind message.
I just used estriol cream down below again after a few weeks break and my lips immediately have swollen up again I know you said after using Everol for a while this happened to you too, did you stop Everol then or did it settle down? It looks like I've had BOTOX straight away after using it. Im red raw down there with atrophy dont know what to do. They gave me vagirux pessaries too never tried them but scared to try them now as that's probably stronger.
Also stopped Femoston nearly 2 weeks ago as it made my scalp all sore and it's not recovered yet. So I'm taking nothing now. Was hoping femseven sequi would come into stock so I can try that. My GP doesn't know what to suggest.
Sorry to go on. Its the weekend now getting myself in a right state panicking. Feel like I won't ever get help with anything and feeling hopeless ☹
If anyone has any ideas of what I can do next I would appreciate it. Thank you
You have nothing to apologise for. This is a place you can talk as much as you like. :)
For me, each time I increase oestrogen my lips swell. Strangely I now notice they swell when I cry too. Once they swelled so much I had to put ice on them. This does pass so I am okay with it.
As your GP does not know what to suggest could you ask them to refer you to a menopause clinic? They will have far more experience and be able to advise you.
It is such a shame you cannot tolerate the estriol cream as I know how much your atrophy is hurting you. I can see why you are wary of using vagifem. If it were me I would try using vagifem once just to see how it goes but make sure to use lots of lube with it so it is easier to insert. I understand you may not want to do that though.
You sound like me, I am very sensitive to any medications and seem to have side effects on everything.
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Good morning Flossieteacake
Thank you so much for your kind message 💐. Thanks for sharing your lips swell too you've given me courage to keep trying a bit as atrophy so bad. My doctor referred me to gynacology a few day's ago said they have menopause clinic but I suppose it's a long waiting list.
I can't focus on anything but health problems as I can't get anything under control and my anxiety over taking medication is taking over. I keep breaking down so being able to chat on here means everything. Thank you 🤗
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Good morning Flossieteacake
Thank you so much for your kind message 💐. Thanks for sharing your lips swell too you've given me courage to keep trying a bit as atrophy so bad. My doctor referred me to gynacology a few day's ago said they have menopause clinic but I suppose it's a long waiting list.
I can't focus on anything but health problems as I can't get anything under control and my anxiety over taking medication is taking over. I keep breaking down so being able to chat on here means everything. Thank you 🤗
You are so welcome. I am happy to have helped.
It really is unfortunate to be sensitive to medication especially when it is essential.
I have found switching from baths to showers helpful for the atrophy. A menopause DR told me washing only in water was making my skin dry. She suggested I apply E45 cream, wash it off in the shower and then reapply. You may already know this but I just thought I would mention it.
Please continue to post on here. You are not one.🤗
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Hi Hopeful2
Vagirux pessaries are not Estriol they are Estradiol. This is a different hormone that hits different receptors but still does the same job. You might be ok with this one.
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Thank you so much Flossieteacake. I didn't know you could you use E45 in that area. GP told me to wash with Dermol lotion but the E45 does sound better thank you for the advice. Its invaluable to be able to learn these things and to know your not alone 🤗. Thank you
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Hi Hopeful2
Vagirux pessaries are not Estriol they are Estradiol. This is a different hormone that hits different receptors but still does the same job. You might be ok with this one.
Hi Dierdre
Thank you so much for your reply. I didn't know it was a different hormone I don't have any knowledge about these things. This has given me hope that maybe something will work. I think I'll try estriol cream if I can as I'm so raw for a few days and then maybe pluck up the courage to use pessaries. You are all so kind in taking the time to write. Thank you 💐
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Thank you so much Flossieteacake. I didn't know you could you use E45 in that area. GP told me to wash with Dermol lotion but the E45 does sound better thank you for the advice. Its invaluable to be able to learn these things and to know your not alone 🤗. Thank you
You are so welcome. I have actually stopped using any shower gel and wash my whole body with E45. I then moisturise with it after my shower. I find it is gentle and helps to keep my skin soft. :)
Just a thought, maybe mixing the estirol cream with vaginal moisturiser would help because it is slightly diluting it. When I apply Ovestin to my outer area I mix it with Yes Moisturiser.
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Thank you so much Flossieteacake. I didn't know you could you use E45 in that area. GP told me to wash with Dermol lotion but the E45 does sound better thank you for the advice. Its invaluable to be able to learn these things and to know your not alone 🤗. Thank you
You are so welcome. I have actually stopped using any shower gel and wash my whole body with E45. I then moisturise with it after my shower. I find it is gentle and helps to keep my skin soft. :)
Just a thought, maybe mixing the estirol cream with vaginal moisturiser would help because it is slightly diluting it. When I apply Ovestin to my outer area I mix it with Yes Moisturiser.
Thanks for your message. I did get yes moisturiser and have been mixing it with it, only as one of the kind ladies did suggest this earlier as a good moisturiser. All of this information is amazing I wouldn't be able to cope without this forum 🤗
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Thank you so much Flossieteacake. I didn't know you could you use E45 in that area. GP told me to wash with Dermol lotion but the E45 does sound better thank you for the advice. Its invaluable to be able to learn these things and to know your not alone 🤗. Thank you
You are so welcome. I have actually stopped using any shower gel and wash my whole body with E45. I then moisturise with it after my shower. I find it is gentle and helps to keep my skin soft. :)
Just a thought, maybe mixing the estirol cream with vaginal moisturiser would help because it is slightly diluting it. When I apply Ovestin to my outer area I mix it with Yes Moisturiser.
Thanks for your message. I did get yes moisturiser and have been mixing it with it, only as one of the kind ladies did suggest this earlier as a good moisturiser. All of this information is amazing I wouldn't be able to cope without this forum 🤗
I feel the same way. People with experience are so much more helpful then anything else. :)
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Hopeful2, it's just about trial and error. You might not be reacting to the estrogen itself, it might be one of the excipients in the cream. Ovestin has chlorhexidine in it, for eg, some have zinc oxide, or other stuff....
Just keep trying different brands or types until you find one that works for you. And there are two different estrogens - estriol and estradiol - so you might be better with one than the other as well.
Blissel is another option, this is very low dose local estrogen gel so might be a gentler starting point...
See if your GP will give you one of each of a range of different things to try, instead of 6 months of one thing - that way you can try them all and see what works best and get more of that.
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Hopeful2, it's just about trial and error. You might not be reacting to the estrogen itself, it might be one of the excipients in the cream. Ovestin has chlorhexidine in it, for eg, some have zinc oxide, or other stuff....
Just keep trying different brands or types until you find one that works for you. And there are two different estrogens - estriol and estradiol - so you might be better with one than the other as well.
Blissel is another option, this is very low dose local estrogen gel so might be a gentler starting point...
See if your GP will give you one of each of a range of different things to try, instead of 6 months of one thing - that way you can try them all and see what works best and get more of that.
Thank you so much for your message Joziel. I never heard of Blissel that sounds good I will ask for that.
I've tried elleste duet & femoston 110 both gave unbearable sore dry scalp. Scalp still really sore now waiting for it to settle 2 weeks after stopping. Tried utrogestan & oestrogel made my throat tight, sore lips, sore spots on back but still better side effects than tablets. GP gave me tridesta tablets next but I'm afraid to take another tablet now. I have prescription for femseven sequi patches too but they are not in stock anywhere. I feel like a rabbit in headlights.
Thank you so much for your encouragement 💐
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Oh I meant with the topical stuff. I'm not sure a GP would give you a range of different systemic HRT to try ;D
I would always choose a transdermal estrogen and body identical progesterone (utrogestan) as a starting point. Not everyone finds that works for them but it's best to try that and see in the first instance because it's all body identical...
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There is also Imvaggis.... from memory it is embedded in some sort of oil/fat pessary?
Hurdity x
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There is also Imvaggis.... from memory it is embedded in some sort of oil/fat pessary?
Hurdity x
Yes it is. I was prescribed this.
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Thank you very much Hurdity for your message I will look into this too. Did you find this one any better flossieteacake? Thank you both for your help.
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Hopeful2 - the Imvaggis might really help you because it's not even estrogen, it's DHEA but has a similar effect as estrogen...
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Hi, just to add that when I tried vaginal oestrogens for dryness I immediately had a dry mouth (as did another user as we discussed on here) which was constant and more irritating than the vaginal dryness! I now just occasionally use Replens and have no issues with the dry mouth.
It may be caused by an allergic reaction in the mucus membranes.
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Thank you very much Hurdity for your message I will look into this too. Did you find this one any better flossieteacake? Thank you both for your help.
It made my skin irritated but it may be okay for you. I hope I have not put you off trying it.
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Thank you very much Joziel for your message. As it's not estrogen would it help with atrophy?
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Yes, it's designed to help with atrophy and research shows it's as effective as local estrogen. The body can convert the DHEA to estrogen and testosterone somehow (that's the gist of it anyway).
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Thank you Joziel it is good to know that this is another option I didn't know about thanks for explaining it to me. Shame it didn't suit you Flossieteacake but thanks for letting me know it's all good information.
And Dangermouse yes I keep going to GP about atrophy, UTI and dry sore mouth they never connected the two and i wasnt sure if it was coincidence. Its difficult when GPs dont know that much about it.
Thank you all for sharing 💐.