Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Nas on July 21, 2022, 11:24:23 AM
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Hi all
Well, I’ve had his Mirena for 8 weeks now and been on the Evorel 75 patch for best part of two years.
Of late I’ve been feeling ‘ off’. Irritable, anxious, lack of interest in things etc etc. I’ve had a blood test today to check Oestrogen and will request results next week.
Still don’t know whether the Mirena is for me or not. Was planning to give it 3 months, then, decide.
Not sure now, whether to have a go at increasing oestrogen now, or leave it until Oestrogen levels are back.
I’ve never felt amazing on HRT, more ‘ okay’.
Maybe I’m tired ( busy school term) but definitely feel overwhelmed with life and all the things I’ve got to do this holiday! :-\
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HRT isn't a cure. One sometimes needs to work round symptoms on a daily basis. 8 weeks isn't long enough ....... hormones don't usually get where they are in a hurry so it stands to reason that it will take the body a while to uptake any extra.
MayB make a list each evening of 'necessities' and 1 of 'what' has to be done . Ticking off in the day helped me enormously in that I could see what I had achieved, rather than beating myself up about what I hadn't done!!!! I also learnt not to say 'yes' to anyone. "I'll check our calendar B4 committing" by which time, 'they' had found someone to help anyway ;-). I do less and less for others. Even the neighbours ;-).
Little steps. Blood tests are reliably unreliable. My Gynae refuses to do them, relying on symptoms. I may have asked: do u keep a mood/food/symptom dairy? Diary even ::)
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I think give the Mirena at least till 6 months before you assess things there. That will give it time to stabilise.
I don't think you need to wait for blood results back before increasing estrogen if you want to give that a go. Just because the advice is to treat to symptoms, not blood results. Some women need quite a high blood level, like 800, to feel good. Others feel good at 250. The BMS advise increasing to treat remaining symptoms. If remaining symptoms don't go after you increase, they advise reducing back again.
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Good advice joziel, thanks.
Will give myself a small increase ( going to have to be a blob of gel ) as running out of patches now and see how that goes.
Yes, six months is probably about right to give the Mirena time to settle.
That’s the thing, I don’t know whether the Mirena is causing these feelings , or lack of Oestrogen.
CL, I live by lists.. i will break the big list down I think, into smaller lists and see where I get to.
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Any chore that I hadn't done would go onto the next day's list ;-)
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I don’t know whether the Mirena is causing these feelings , or lack of Oestrogen.
Confusingly, it could be both ;D Or - it could be the Mirena, but a little extra estrogen off-sets it...
This s**t is complex with many variables. We are pioneering biohackers. In 200 years time, there will be some superlative knowledge on it all. Or we'll all be getting slices of our ovaries frozen age 25 to be restored to us age 40, thereby preventing menopause entirely ;D ;D ;D
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Oh hey Nas, sorry to hear you still don’t feel great. I would offer the same advice as Joziel, my estrogen blood tests show quite a high result, I’m on 50 now, so I think in my experience that the advice focusing on symptoms seems to be right and certainly my doctor at Newson thinks so, I was worried at how high my oestrogen was but she wasn’t at all. I really feel for you and all you’ve got to deal with while also maintaining a high stress busy job. Sending you a big hug xx
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What is your estrogen on a 50 patch ATB?
Are you peri and do you think your own ovaries are contributing some of that?
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I’d have to do a more recent one I think, the last one was too close to when I was on the 75 patch- which had it something like 1600-1700? Before HRT it was 110. But that was taken during a peak estrogen time according to my doctor. She actually wasn’t really interested in the estrogen result, it was for my testosterone. I’m sure my ovaries contribute something, but it was so low before I doubt it’s much? I was consistently around 110-140 for 6 years. I do worry about my bones actually, what damage that did for that amount of years.
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Well I'm sure mine was that low too, for even longer, because that's where the estrogen-suppressing desogestrel kept it :( Heck, it's probably been low my entire life except for the 5 years I came off the POP. I keep thinking I should get a dexa scan but then I get terrified. I mean, if it comes back worrying, what am I going to do, I can't increase my estrogen and I'm doing everything else I'm supposed to be doing anyway... it will just be another thing to worry about.
So when you were 110-140, that was before starting any HRT?
How long after the 75 patch was it done? I think estrogen leaves the body pretty quickly, like within 24hrs...
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Oh I’ve had so many tests I would have to go look. I didn’t realise it leaves the body so quickly! Yes the low scores were before HRT.
Oh I know what you mean about the DEXA scan. I’m just not into more tests right now! I’ve not been offered one and I can’t afford to do it myself so I do my best to live as healthily as I can now & that’s all we can do. I really wish I could keep up with my aim to skip every day!
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Very funny you should say that - I've just ordered a skipping rope and followed some Instagram-mers who are into teaching skipping steps. My plan is to skip for 5-10mins every day. ;D
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Thanks all
I seriously think we should all be doing a PhD in the menopause, as collectively our wealth of knowledge and information is vast!
My two choices are, switch to gel or increase the patches. I have a box of 50’s, so maybe x 2 on the bum, or a couple of sachets of sandrena.
Will ponder today. Got to be quick though, as once the o falls too low , the horrendous bladder issue returns . No thanks!
:)
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Can't really say anything about the HRT, but it does sound as if you're on the right path ...
Re: general emotional state, ye gods, it's been a shitshow in school this year, everyone is saying the worst ever. I finished on Wednesday, but for the whole of this week I've been biting my husband's head off. To be honest, I've been quite a cow for the last month or so. I completely broke down yesterday, have no idea what to do with myself for the next six weeks, it's like looking into a black hole. I'm almost scared to 'fail' the summer holidays because I know that, once we get back in September, it's going to be another horrendous rollercoaster ride with no let up.
^^ And so big congratulations for surviving this year. Basically, anyone who works in a school, the NHS or Social Services deserves a bloody medal for what we've been through. We tend not to talk about it, because we can't, but if I had to offer an overview, I'd say that it's felt like those two days of the heatwave, except every day, for over 10 months. It's been brutal. Many of the kids are feral and the staff are completely exhausted. You did great, Nas, to make it this far. Big hugs.
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Nas, if you're on the patches now and have been stable on Evorel 75 for 2 years, I would stick with the patches if you want to increase. Changing both the type and the dose is going to create complications because you won't know if you just don't get on with the particular type or if it's the dose or if it's differences in the way your body absorbs them.
So go to 100 patches, 2x 50s. Not sure about sticking them on the bum though. ;D Is that where you currently put them? I think mine would come off, the amount of sitting on my bum I do...
Elk, you're right, anyone working in any of those contexts needs a medal... well done and enjoy the summer break!
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Ah thanks Elk,
I was thinking of you the other day, funnily enough.
You’ve hit the nail on the head! We finished Wednesday and I didn’t even have the energy to go for drinks!! More, kind of said my good byes, fell into my car and collapsed in a heap on the sofa!
This year has been brutal for sure. No idea how anyone is even upright right now.
I’ve been the same this week, irritability off the scale and partner has bore the brunt. Yesterday also had a meltdown and started making lists of jobs to get done over the summer. Then couldn’t sleep, as brain churning!!
Elk you’ve done great 👍
And anyone else who’s had a horrendous year work wise, well done!
I’m toying with the herbalist approach though.. must add it to the list!! 🤦♀️
Thanks again.
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Thanks joziel 😀
Yes the patches are stuck to my bum. That said, one cheek I’ve just discovered is red raw from irritation and all lumpy.
Mmm.. maybe I don’t fancy 2 patches on the bum now.
Might have to rethink again.
Speaking to gp next week anyway.
Where do you stick your patches joziel?
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I stick my patches at the top of my thigh on the flattest part so they stay on.
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Hello ladies.
Nas - I'm sorry to learn that things are still not good for you.
You mention increasing your Oestrogen by adding gel and I hope this helps without a return of any bleeding. I have been reducing my sachets of Sandrena and increased my progesterone (Cyclogest) and my bleeding has stopped thankfully plus my breasts seem to be less tender. Emotionally I am not settled but I live in hope lol.
I agree that the knowledge and experience we all have of the menopause is vast and I hope it will all be put to good use one day.
Wishing you well and keep us updated.
K.
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I switch them from left to right, just inside the bottom of my knicker line. So it's on my torso, but only just.
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Currently experimenting with patch sites..Mmm can't seem to crack it. My 50's must have dried out during the heat wave!
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P.s Does anyone know what the sandrena equivalent is of a 75 patch?
1.5 sachets?
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The Newson table says 75-100 patch = 1-2mg sachet
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Thanks joziel, i thought it was about 1.5 sachets.
Bad news, the bladder has gone awol again!!
Got to act quick now, as going away in little over a week.
The 75 is irritating my skin and I didn’t think absorption great. So I thought I’d take the patch off ( Thursday) and apply the sandrena ( Friday) Weeing all day and night yesterday/last night!
I think I’m going to try 2x 50 patches and hope for the best.
It doesn’t seem to matter how much vagifem and ovestin I use, my bladder needs a certain amount of systemic Oestrogen too.
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Oh no Nas, so sorry to hear that. I was so hopeful that you’d sorted it and the supplements I recommended had helped. I really hope that your solution works, it sounds like the best plan to me.
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Thanks ATB.
Seriously, do things EVER settle down? I do hope so.
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Nas, there are other brands of patches you could try.... which might not cause the skin irritation.
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Yes you are right joziel..
Trouble is, will they be in stock in my area .
Will do my research now me thinks🤞👍
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Estradot 75 on now ! Thank god for my ‘ stash’ :)
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Just a thought Nas, you said you felt quite good on Femoston but obv dosage wasn’t quite enough to keep some of your more debilitating bladder issues at bay. Now that you have the Mirena, have you considered trying a 2mg estrogen tablet dose as an alternative? I know everyone seems to demonise tablets but if estrogen only which you will be it’s still a ‘body identical’ form of estrogen and some people just seem to get on with tablets and absorb them better. Im certainly one of them and have always struggled with patches and gel, skin irritation etc.
just a thought- you may have already tried or discarded this idea for perfectly good reasons. My understand is that unless one is at a higher risk of stroke for other factors, the increased risk is absolutely tiny in the whole scheme of things. It’s all a balance of factors isn’t it. X
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Hi Flora,
Yes the 2mg tablet had crossed my mind.
I’ve got a review in the autumn, so may mention it then.
I know my specialist is okay with tablet HRT ( hence the femeston).
I was even thinking of taking x 2 femeston Conti, to see how that goes. But then I’m probably going to be progesterone heavy, with the coil too ( I don’t know).
What I do know is, that I don’t absorb gel too well and patches sort the bladder out, but give skin irritation.
Definitely a balancing act! X
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Well estradot gets a thumbs up for sticking so well! Plus I had forgotten how tiny they are!
IF no major side effects with these AND they can contain my wild bladder, that's it, I want them.
Fingers crossed a. they work and b. I can source them!
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How come you've already got them, do you have your own pharmacy? ;D ;D
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How come you've already got them, do you have your own pharmacy? ;D ;D
Erm, not quite ;D
I had a few left over from a couple of years back and dug them out..
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Are they still in date?! Mine now only last till 2023 😅
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Yes in date until 2023.
Not sure if they are stronger than evorel , as currently have awful period type pains and mild headache 🤕?
I seem to remember this is the reason why I swapped to evorel now. Maybe the Estradot 75 is too strong?
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Interesting, other people have said that. But probably it is way too soon to make another change.
If you wanted to reduce you could try measuring the patch in milimetres and then working out how much you need to cut off. I did that with a 50 patch to get 37.5 but it wasn't easy ;D
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Yes joziel, you are right. I am loathed to make any changes as going away in a week.
Suppose I could ask the gp for a 50 dose when speak to her next week? Will probably find that’s not enough then!
😀
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If you want 50, just measure the 75 patch in mms and divide by 3, then use 2 thirds of it... ;D I put a couple of biro dots where I'm going to cut. ;D
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Yes I might try and trim down the patch. It's easier with evorel to do that, than estradot.
I am in such a grump today, it has to be the patch. :(