Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: warwick01 on July 12, 2022, 03:47:53 PM
-
Hello Ladies
I haven't been on for a while as i have had a rough ride with AD withdrawal. Feeling much better on that front now, thank goodness.
My question is any notice when they stop Utrogestan a few days after in my case day 5 I go in such a depressive state, exhausted and feel so low don't want to talk to anyone. No bleed as yet and will be day 7 tomorrow. Anyone else feel like this ??
Wxx
-
Yes, withdrawal is the worst thing about taking utrogestan. I feel mentally ill for about 2 days every time I go through it. Usually I’m back to my normal self after that though.
Sorry I can’t be of more help but just wanted to let you know you are not alone, it is very common. My specialist told me it is because my receptors are particularly sensitive, sounds like you are the same. Well done on getting off anti/depressants btw, no mean feat x
-
Perinowpost
Thanks for your response. I didn't feel as low as this with Northisterone withdrawal. But I do like using Utrogestan vaginally. At what stage do you feel this horrendous mood dip?? does it ease when your bleed starts?? last month I didn't get my bleed until 10 days after stopping. Fingers crossed it starts soon.
Wxx
-
Hi Warwick01 for me it peaks at about 3 days after I’ve stopped taking it and eases after the first day of my bleed. I am really emotional/irrational for those 2 days and can’t plan anything big. 10 days seems a lot I couldn’t cope waiting for relief that long x
-
I can totally empathise! I’m into my second month of hrt and I felt just like you after stopping the Utrogestan but my low mood lasted about a week. Really struggling with what to do if I’m like that again this month and hoping it settles down the more I use it. Wishing you the best x
-
Hi Warwick01, I think a lot of it is to do with dopamine dropping. Have you tried boosting it naturally to try & offset the symptoms?
I found this helpful when I was trying to understand neurotransmitters.
https://bebrainfit.com/increase-dopamine/
-
Hello Ladies
I haven't been on for a while as i have had a rough ride with AD withdrawal. Feeling much better on that front now, thank goodness.
My question is any notice when they stop Utrogestan a few days after in my case day 5 I go in such a depressive state, exhausted and feel so low don't want to talk to anyone. No bleed as yet and will be day 7 tomorrow. Anyone else feel like this ??
Wxx
I am sorry to hear this.
I suspect the utrogestan is not helping me with stability, however my psychiatrist is weaning me off diazepam, with benzo dependent women, we become addicted to progesterone in any form because of GABAA receptors and in your case, perhaps, the action of utrogestan on these receptors could be the cause of the problem, as some women do react differently on it from what I have read.
A "plant-progestin" might be the answer, yet, I don't know of any.
I would be curious if there was one, as I would switch to it, as it's going to be a hassle tapering off these capsules when I am off the diazepam.
-
Dandelion- On the subject of plant progestins. I read an article about researchers discovering the female hormone progesterone in leaves of the Common Walnut, or English Walnut, tree. They also identified five new progesterone-related steroids in a plant belonging to the buttercup family. Interestingly walnuts lower estrogen in the body apparently.
-
Dandelion- On the subject of plant progestins. I read an article about researchers discovering the female hormone progesterone in leaves of the Common Walnut, or English Walnut, tree. They also identified five new progesterone-related steroids in a plant belonging to the buttercup family. Interestingly walnuts lower estrogen in the body apparently.
Thank you for this, I will research it.
It's late right now, I have made a note to read up.
I wasn't going to ramble about interactions of any substance and my valium, I do have to be careful though.
For instance, chemical compounds in ginger makes valium stick around the system longer, and chemical compounds in veggies like cabbage and cauliflower make it leave the system.
When weaning like me, the goal is to aim for the smoothest dose-descent down, keeping blood levels as stable as possible.
It is for this reason I cannot take steroids, and wish I had thought of this before taking progesterone for HRT.
My GP tried to tell me that while I needed progesterone with oestrogen, it would mess up my taper, but I didn't listen. I have had two addictions to it.
The first was prescribed, the second was a silly choice to deal with overwhelming personal problems using valium.
Drug addicts are traumatised kids, I have researched it.
Kids who grew up with abuse and neglect often turn to drugs.
Now I am going on a tangent! :D
On a positive note, I am doing well coming off it though.
I am sticking to the prescription, I just wish my prescriber would reassure me they will keep prescribing till I get down to zero, yet they won't and it is their not reassuring me I will be prescribed till zero mg that causes more stress.
To get back on track, thanks for your help, I don't know why I didn't think to google "plant progestins"
-
Perinowpost
Thanks for your response. I didn't feel as low as this with Northisterone withdrawal. But I do like using Utrogestan vaginally. At what stage do you feel this horrendous mood dip?? does it ease when your bleed starts?? last month I didn't get my bleed until 10 days after stopping. Fingers crossed it starts soon.
Wxx
Hello
This post is to help me clarify something, I hope that's ok.
I take one utrogestan orally and one vaginally.
I feel the need to give a bit of background so this post makes sense.
I was in peri, taking oral 200mg sequentially, in 2016, when I felt mentally ill on the days I was not taking it.
I started bleeds, saw doc and gynaecologist and needed another 100mg utrogestan.
I am addicted to the benzodiazepine, valium, it is cross-tolerant with utrogestan, so, benzodiazepine dependent women get addicted to progesterone as well.
I am now post meno. To keep as stable as possible, my doctors have agreed to let me take it daily, with no break, as the breaks from oral progesterone were messing me up.
I decided to take the extra utrogestan vaginally, thinking that I would not increase my "progesterone addiction" as it is not going through my system.
Can I clarify, are you taking utrogestan vaginally, and still feeling mentally ill on the days you don't take it?
I want to know, because I thought I would be safer from mental illness if I took it vaginally, however, it might be, that I should take it all orally.
I am tapering off valium ok because it is tablets.
I am dreading tapering off the utrogestan because it is capsules, and I am too scared to upset my GABA system by changing to a synthetic progestin or IUD.
Thank you for reading.
-
I would also be interested if people get the withdrawal and mood problems when taking utro vaginally.
I hope your taper goes ok Dandelion, it sounds like you’ve been through a lot xx
-
I composed a reply to this this morning and thought I’d posted it but it seems to have disappeared 🤣. For me it doesn’t matter if I take it orally or vaginally the withdrawal is the same x
-
I composed a reply to this this morning and thought I’d posted it but it seems to have disappeared 🤣. For me it doesn’t matter if I take it orally or vaginally the withdrawal is the same x
That is really curious.
Given some woman get withdrawals from vaginal as well as oral utrogestan, why, then, does it only make you sleepy if taken orally?
-
Oh Dandelion, it makes me sleep when I take it vaginally too. It knocks me out within the hour.
-
Oh Dandelion, it makes me sleep when I take it vaginally too. It knocks me out within the hour.
Oral makes me sleep, that makes sense as it has to go through the digestive system.
This is my ignorance to be honest, I don't know why vaginal would make someone sleep as they don't have to swallow it.
Perhaps it is because it still circulates around the body blood stream - just a guess though.
-
It is sedating whether taken vaginally or orally, it doesn’t make a difference really x
-
Dandelion, Both get into the bloodstream. However, I think if it is metabolised through the liver (where active drugs are converted).
-
Dandelion, Both get into the bloodstream. However, I think if it is metabolised through the liver (where active drugs are converted).
That's what confuses me.
With some ladies vaginal sedates them, with other, like me, it doesn't.
-
Thanks ladies for your replies.
I am on day 10 since stopping Utro and I can tell you - my anxiety, low mood is unbearable. I almost feel psychotic. I wasn't this bad on Northisterone and I would always start a bleed 6 days after finishing. These feelings are horrid. I feel as if my body is trying to have a bleed but for some reason it hasn't started and the PMT type symptoms are the result. Pray it comes soom :(
I don't think I can cope with this anymore.
Wx
-
So sorry you’re feeling this way Warwick01. It has never happened to me so not sure what to suggest. Hoping it starts soon and you get some relief. Let us know xx
-
Thanks ladies for your replies.
I am on day 10 since stopping Utro and I can tell you - my anxiety, low mood is unbearable. I almost feel psychotic. I wasn't this bad on Northisterone and I would always start a bleed 6 days after finishing. These feelings are horrid. I feel as if my body is trying to have a bleed but for some reason it hasn't started and the PMT type symptoms are the result. Pray it comes soom :(
I don't think I can cope with this anymore.
Wx
Are you on a sequential regime?
Are you on any other meds?
I am benzodiazepine dependent and I know that any woman who is on, or has been dependent on benzodiazepines cannot just stop utrogestan, as they become addicted to it's metabolites.
Does this happen every month for you?
When I was on sequential utrogestan, I noticed my mental state dip on the days I was not taking it, I told my doctor and was allowed to take it every day.
-
Dandelion, we’re all our own chemistry set I guess. What affects one person one way doesn’t affect another. I imagine there’s lots of variables that come into play.
-
warwick, even if you are peri, you may be able to use utrogestan continuously. Many of us do (me included). I'm on utrogestan 100mg continuously, 44yo and peri.
Many women prefer it that way and one reason can be the stable hormones.... You would be using the same amount of it, just instead of 200mg for half the month, take 100mg every night.
If it leads to problematic breakthrough bleeding you could do a 25 days on, 3 days off - minimising the amount of time you're not taking it just enough to schedule a bleed. That is a kosher regime as it's the 'old style' continuous regime.
-
well i have to say i cannot stand if i take utrogeston orally, it completely knocks me off my feet literally, i have to go to bed and im gone into a deep sleep. vaginally this does not happen AT ALL, if anything I cant sleep.
-
warwick, even if you are peri, you may be able to use utrogestan continuously. Many of us do (me included). I'm on utrogestan 100mg continuously, 44yo and peri.
Many women prefer it that way and one reason can be the stable hormones.... You would be using the same amount of it, just instead of 200mg for half the month, take 100mg every night.
If it leads to problematic breakthrough bleeding you could do a 25 days on, 3 days off - minimising the amount of time you're not taking it just enough to schedule a bleed. That is a kosher regime as it's the 'old style' continuous regime.
Sorry for jumping in here but I’m just wondering about the continuous regime when you’re still having periods. Do you not need to have a bleed to shed the lining of the womb? I’m wondering if I should mention this to my doc as I’m struggling with the ups and downs!! Still getting my head around all this 😊 Thanks x
-
If you take progesterone every day, there shouldn’t be a build up to shed - because it’s keeping it thin. It’s the unopposed estrogen for 2 weeks which causes the lining to build up.
-
Gotcha! Hope my doc gives me the go ahead. Thank you ;D x