Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: KarineT on June 19, 2022, 07:25:32 PM
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Will all women who cannot or won't take HRT automatically have a heart attack be plagued by osteoporosis or develop dementia? Well, some of you on this forum seem to think so. I would like to point out that, if you do not or cannot supplement your body with manufactured hormones there are other things you can do to help protect your health such as a good diet, exercise and, perhaps, taking food supplements. I don't consider HRT as the only think, although some of you think it's a lifesaver. Those who are not taking it don't have more risk of developping the above diseases. If this was the case every single woman who is not on HRT would either have a heart attack, dementia or osteoporosis. I get the impression that every woman who's not on HRT will automatically get any of the above diseases, as implied on this forum, but this is simply not true because everybody's different.
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I don't think every woman who doesn't take HRT will get osteoporosis, dementia or heart disease. I already have osteoporosis but as i said in a different post, its not related to low estrogen.
I believe HRT might & can help to ward off these illnesses but agree, diet, exercise & bloody good luck also helps.
First thing my gynae said to me was HRT will help my osteoporosis, so I'm hopeful he is right.
I'm simply trying HRT to help with my anxiety & brain fog. Anxiety seems calmer & my brain fog has almost gone but i still worry HRT will give me breast cancer or a stroke.
If i could, i would stop HRT but atm the benefits for me are outweighing the pros but never once did i start it to watd off dementia or heart disease. It never actually crossed my mind it did that.
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In terms of the osteoporosis, a gp recently told my partner that women lose half of their bone mass at menopause. So it is encouraging to me to know that taking oestrogen helps with that issue. In terms of the heart disease and dementia, I understand that there are many risk factors for both, one being low estrogen, so again HRT is said to lower the overall risk.
From what I have read, it seems to be a very complex issue whereby HRT can be seen as one tool amongst many that can be used to reduce particular health risks.
As I understand it, sleep, exercise, diet, supplements, etc all have a big part to play but they can’t address the hormone deficiency itself. I’ve only recently started researching this but that’s my understanding so far.
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Who implied this? Why are you attacking the forum? Where was this said? What a strange post. I don’t think anyone has said any such thing.
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Er … yes … its been a lifesaver for me ! And i dont hesitate to say this either. Not for everyone but .. we all appreciate this . This forum is called menopause matters . Not hrt matters
what a strange post …
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I always understood that it was diet, in childhood and teenage years, that affected osteoporosis.
Also the proportion of women who take HRT, to those that don't, is small. That would mean that most women would be suffering these problems, which they don't.
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Hi Aprilflower these are the causes of osteoporosis. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/osteoporosis/causes/.
I don't have the statistics as to how many women have heart disease etc post meno. For me HRT is about my quality of life and if I'd been lucky enough to have an easy meno I probably wouldn't even have known about the possible health risks in my later years. It's good to know your options though.I was never going to use HRT not realising what an impact menopause could have!
Taz x
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Thanks for the link.
According to that I'm not at risk of osteoporosis and I know of no family members, past or present, who have had it.
As for heart disease, there are so many risk factors including generics and life style.
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You are at risk as a woman if your estrogen and/or testosterone levels fall, as they do during perimenopause and menopause, according to that link & a wealth of science on the subject.
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Thanks for the link.
According to that I'm not at risk of osteoporosis and I know of no family members, past or present, who have had it.
I just meant that a drop in oestrogen, as happens when during menopause, is recognised as a risk factor for osteoporosis for all women. Unless you have a way of avoiding the loss of oestrogen it would seem to say that you are at risk? Not genetically of course but it's good to have this knowledge and then make informed decisions as to how to avoid it.
Taz :)
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Thanks, but as I said, my family history indicates the risk is small.
I'm 66, and apart from being a little overweight, healthy. I'm not on any prescribed medication, including HRT.
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Being informed and then making your own assessment, with the help of your doctor, is really important. It is also important to look at the facts carefully and to make sure you understand them and don’t repeat anything inaccurate. The genetic link is real, but it’s modest. It increases your overall risk if it’s in your family, but those that don’t have that link don’t have no risk. That’s not what the evidence says at all. All women are at greater risk after their sex hormone levels drop. That’s not about genetic links, it applies to all women. Not exercising regularly is also a risk factor, which is why even when I don’t feel like it or struggled with perimenopause I made exercise a non-negotiable part of my life.
Anyone who is truly curious can get a DEXA scan. I’d say that’s particularly important for those not replacing the hormones you are definitely losing.
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I very much class HRT as my life saver. I no longer want to die because I can’t cope with the anxiety, depression, insomnia, brain fog, muscle aches, joint aches, forgetfulness, feeling worthless that stopped me working, being a parent, socialising, working out, recognising myself. I am without symptoms and happy being back to me!
Agree that diet and exercise are crucial. The rest of the post doesn’t make sense to me.
OP sounds angry. Boxing workouts might help.
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Tora, I'm glad to hear HRT had worked so well for you. Its helped my brain fog & gently eased my anxiety but I'm new to it so still hopeful 🙏
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It is certainly not inevitable that all who don’t take HRT will end up with these diseases, I don’t think I have seen anyone on here implying such. However, I think it is all about assessing one’s own risk factors for these known diseases and choosing how to best mitigate those health risks be it by modifying lifestyle factors or using prescription medications including HRT. Osteoporosis is one disease where the enormous wealth of scientific research shows that by far the biggest risk factor is loss of estrogen. No amount of calcium supplements, weight bearing exercise etc has anything like the beneficial effect on bones as estrogen. I have many of the risk factors for osteoporosis. Some, like family history, I can do nothing about. Replacement of estrogen is something I can do something about so I choose to do so. I have no intention of suffering the crippling pain and debilitating effects of crumbling bones that my female elderly relatives had. I see taking HRT to reduce my risk of developing serious disease as just another tool in my arsenal of tricks to keep myself as healthy and active as possible as I age. In the same way that I don’t smoke, rarely drink and keep to my target weight. So no, of course not everyone will end up with these diseases, but there is now sound scientific evidence showing that estrogen replacement reduces the risk of developing many of them therefore I choose to reduce that risk x
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It is certainly not inevitable that all who don’t take HRT will end up with these diseases, I don’t think I have seen anyone on here implying such. However, I think it is all about assessing one’s own risk factors for these known diseases and choosing how to best mitigate those health risks be it by modifying lifestyle factors or using prescription medications including HRT. Osteoporosis is one disease where the enormous wealth of scientific research shows that by far the biggest risk factor is loss of estrogen. No amount of calcium supplements, weight bearing exercise etc has anything like the beneficial effect on bones as estrogen. I have many of the risk factors for osteoporosis. Some, like family history, I can do nothing about. Replacement of estrogen is something I can do something about so I choose to do so. I have no intention of suffering the crippling pain and debilitating effects of crumbling bones that my female elderly relatives had. I see taking HRT to reduce my risk of developing serious disease as just another tool in my arsenal of tricks to keep myself as healthy and active as possible as I age. In the same way that I don’t smoke, rarely drink and keep to my target weight. So no, of course not everyone will end up with these diseases, but there is now sound scientific evidence showing that estrogen replacement reduces the risk of developing many of them therefore I choose to reduce that risk x
I like your post. Agree it's all about about informed personal choice.
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It"s not a strange post at all. I am not attacking the forum at all and I am not going to name names. All I want to say is that those who are not on HRT should not be made to feel that they are more at risk of getting dementia, heart disease or osteoporosis. I agree that this forum is about the menopause but it's also about HRT as there's a lot of discussion about it on here. Obviously, most of you don't agree with what I"ve posted and therefore think that I'm attacking the forum simply because I've have an opinion about HRT.
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"those who are not on HRT should not be made to feel that they are more at risk of getting dementia, heart disease or osteoporosis. "
Why?
They are more at risk.
That is a fact.
I'm sorry you don't like those facts. I don't like a lot of stuff happening in the world today, but I don't deny it just because I don't like it.
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I think the ethos of the forum is we give advice based on our personal experience. We are not medically trained.
I also think it's wrong to frighten women not on HRT, especially those who can't take it. It's perfectly fine for women to decide they don't wish or need to take it.
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So what would advise to those who cannot take HRT? What are they going to do?
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So what would advise to those who cannot take HRT? What are they going to do?
Exactly.
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Yeah you absolutely are attacking the forum, it’s a strange, unnecessary post that bears no resemblance to the conversations happening on the forum. It’s disrespectful to come here and post this at other members. Facts are indeed facts and especially for osteoporosis, the facts are that you are more at risk the more your estrogen levels drop. It’s science. People are not disagreeing with your opinion, but the claims you’ve made about the forum that are there in black and white.
It’s absolutely agreed here by everyone I’ve ever seen post that it’s entirely your choice what way you go with HRT. Stating a verifiable fact, as per our own NHS, isn’t meant to frighten. It’s being informed of the risk and the facts. If you post something that’s misinformation, I think you should expect people to share the correct information, for others benefit. Women not on HRT are supported here every day, don’t forget some women can’t tolerate it too. They are also supported here.
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I suggest you spend time looking through the forum, there are many posts and threads by women who can’t tolerate HRT, there is also lots of advice about other things we can do to help ourselves- I myself have talked lots about the other things I do to support myself through this. Every day these conversations happen here.
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Maybe it's all in the wording. I wonder whether what you actually mean, Karine, is that those who are in possession of all of the facts about HRT but decide not to take it shouldn't be made to feel that by rejecting HRT they have reached the wrong decision rather than saying 'those who are not on HRT should not be made to feel that they are more at risk of getting dementia, heart disease or osteoporosis' ?
This forum is invaluable for providing info on the various remedies to help women through menopause and it is important that both risks and benefits are talked about. As Aprilflower says it is personal choice.
Taz :)
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So what would advise to those who cannot take HRT? What are they going to do?
Breast Cancer Survivors are having to fight for info globally to help them weigh up risk/benefit of all treatments that they may be able to take, then present data to their consultant’s. Whilst feeling horrific. It’s a laboriously slow and expensive route but two friends are doing this in order to be able to walk up their stairs.
Much, much more research is needed so that women can make informed, highly personal choices easily.
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Hi Tora
Are your two friends aware that testosterone implants are given to women in the States.
https://ascopubs.org/doi/abs/10.1200/jco.2014.32.26_suppl.109
Rebecca Glaser has loads of articles and information on her website plus lots if you just Google.
How horrific for them both. x
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https://twitter.com/dr_musgrave/status/1538873575104462852?t=En1nDxYv2i7-rexjNb9F9g&s=19
Well this was a coincidence. Just read the above on Twitter. This is a doctor and GP.
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What a stupid tweet. There is NO MASS MEDICALISATION! Very few women are on hormone *replacement*. I’m glad that’s not my doctor, not even aware of NICE guidelines they should be following. Dear oh dear.
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Hi Marchlove.
Thanks for the link. They are both aware and have discussed Dr Glaser’s research with their consultants. One friend has been agreed testosterone treatment with A.I in London. It has been a long fight.
The other is more likely to be able to take low dose standard HRT but doesn’t have it yet.
I hope it improves their quality of life as both are at rock bottom.
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Oh Tora, I’m so pleased to hear that for them both.
It’s such a shame they’ve had to fight for this though.
It might help others if you do a new thread about Breast Cancer Survivors and what your friends have been able to eventually sort for themselves.
I do hope all goes well for them xx
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Tora, I’m a BC survivor and know exactly what kind of fight your friends will have to had put up, in order to feel better and to function.
Totally agree that more research is required to allow women to make informed choices re HRT. And to also understand that it isn’t always THE silver bullet which takes away all symptoms.
HRT can however make life much more bearable. It is available to many women ( even cancer survivors, under guidance and supervision).
At the of the day, these hormones are vital to the physical, emotional and mental well being of women, it’s a biological fact. Some women function well with HRT, others not so well. Some women want to take it, others don’t.
You might also have a woman who takes HRT, doesn’t get struck with dementia etc, but develops something completely different and unrelated.
This is a forum for all though .. :)
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Well said Naz!
ATB, if you think I am attacking the forum and am disrespectful, what do you think of this? It was posted on this forum and, to me, it suggests that those not HRT will automatically have health problems:
99% of women do have osteoporosis later in life, who do not take hormones - my NHS nurse who did my dexa scan said as soon as I stop my HRT I will be like the rest of them - meaning not on HRT, with osteoporosis.
When I read this, it makes me feel bad & worried and I find this quite negative, even if it's based on scientific evidence. I don't think it applies to 99% of women.
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Hi Karine
Just wondering what you mean by 99% of women in later life get osteoporosis, who are not on hrt?
This is a contradiction to what you’ve been arguing.
Have you got a study link for this you could share?
Also, what the nurse might have meant by you being like the rest of them, was once you stop the benefits will stop.
Are you not able to take hrt for some reason? Many can’t, in which case I can understand your concerns about what is being said because it would rightly worry you. I don’t know your story which is why I’m asking.
Nas- I didn’t know you are a BC survivor, well, what a very brave lady you are fighting that fight and now fighting another completely different one. x
Yes a forum for all indeed x
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Yes lovely March, BC was my fight many years ago. I have scars to prove it! ☺
Life eh? I am coming back as a bird in the next life! X
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Well said Naz!
ATB, if you think I am attacking the forum and am disrespectful, what do you think of this? It was posted on this forum and, to me, it suggests that those not HRT will automatically have health problems:
99% of women do have osteoporosis later in life, who do not take hormones - my NHS nurse who did my dexa scan said as soon as I stop my HRT I will be like the rest of them - meaning not on HRT, with osteoporosis.
When I read this, it makes me feel bad & worried and I find this quite negative, even if it's based on scientific evidence. I don't think it applies to 99% of women.
I feel like you shouldn’t get so worked up and make a post attacking the forum based on one comment to you. The forum overall is full of very helpful advice to other women whether they take HRT or not.
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Marchlove, I am not the one who mentioned this. I was quoting someone else. You have realised this if you read my post thoroughly.
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I didn’t read it thoroughly enough so didn’t realise you were quoting someone else.
I tend not to quote other people unless I’m fully confident that what they have said, is in fact correct.
People giving statistical information should post links. x
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The forum has not historically been a welcome place for those not on HRT, many have left as any discussions on alternatives would get shot down. I don't come on here much now but hopefully things have improved.
I think that the heart risk is based on women no longer having the protection that oestrogen gives their heart to give birth, so once that is no longer required, our risk is aligned with men. This does get exaggerated by the media though as if we are about to keel over without HRT!
I do also find the TV doctors disingenuous, like one that was This Morning today, who promote HRT but then say compounded bio identical hormones are natural supplements being advertised on social media, that do not have any active ingredients, when they contain exactly the same plant-based, lab created estradiol and USP progesterone as the ones the GPs prescribe. It seems as if they have to follow the drug company's marketing strategy, regardless of what they really think. Money talks!
Hopefully the members here can see through this and make informed choices. The best strategy is, if it makes you feel good, then take it, and hopefully enjoy some risk mitigation, if it doesn't, then don't waste months and months taking things that make you feel awful just to protect yourself from a potentially exaggerated set of risks.
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Bio identical HRT is not the same as body identical HRT at all. This page has a lot of info about why it is not advised, mostly due to safety reasons
PS I took this form years ago & it is discussed on the alternative therapies section here whenever people want. Did you all not see that section?
https://thebms.org.uk/publications/consensus-statements/bioidentical-hrt/
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Thank you dangermouse, for giving a clear, calm perspective.
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Hi Aprilflower and dangermouse,
Thanks for your kind messages and support in this situation.
And for those of you who are not on HRT, it does not mean that it's the beginning of the end physically and mentally.
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You're welcome. :great:
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Bio identical HRT is not the same as body identical HRT at all. This page has a lot of info about why it is not advised, mostly due to safety reasons
PS I took this form years ago & it is discussed on the alternative therapies section here whenever people want. Did you all not see that section?
https://thebms.org.uk/publications/consensus-statements/bioidentical-hrt/
The ingredients are the same, the perceived danger is that because the HRT is made fresh in compounding pharmacies (like the old fashioned ones before big pharma took over) they are not packaged so cannot be licensed. They will have better quality carrier ingredients than the off the shelf packs that are mass produced, hence the cost. Only BMA doctors in UK can prescribe them and scans etc are carried out as standard to check on womb lining (if oestrogen is used) as sometimes less Utrogestan, or other USP progesterones are used.
The NHS cannot afford to resource scans so they have to use silly high amounts of progesterone (check out how much is in Evorel Conti!) which make a lot of women feel worse.
Anyway, this thread is not about the C word so sorry for bringing that up, but just to explain for anyone confused by it.
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Hi DM
This seems to imply that standard dosing of HRT in the UK is a bit like chucking the kitchen sink at the issues (symptoms) because actually women (on the NHS) can't be treated with an evidence-based approach due to lack of resources. Have I read that right? If so, that would really being into question the whole 'facts' (i.e evidence) claims.
I also agree with Nas re: 'the magic bullet'. So many women don't experience this response to HRT. I feel we're pretty much still waiting for an open and honest discussion about this and at the moment all we have is the binary 'for' and 'against' approach - which as 2,000 years of logic and reason has taught us, is absolutely the reverse of how we should think through issues.
There's an interesting analogy that can be applied here. CBT is widely touted as a suitable treatment path for women experiencing mental health crises (often as the result of hormonal disruption) and yet there's a wide body of evidence which suggests its universality as treatment of choice is more informed by cost implications (for the NHS, in terms of training and delivery, etc) and for some it can definitely do more harm than good. But it's become so accepted as the 'first line of defence' that it's almost impossible to have any form of sensible conversation about it - further information can be found in 'trauma is really strange' and 'the body holds the score'.
Anyway, I can kind of see where the OP is coming from. It's tough to think you can heal and be your best self even you're constantly being told you haven't got access to the magic bullet.
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There's an interesting analogy that can be applied here. CBT is widely touted as a suitable treatment path for women experiencing mental health crises (often as the result of hormonal disruption) and yet there's a wide body of evidence which suggests its universality as treatment of choice is more informed by cost implications (for the NHS, in terms of training and delivery, etc) and for some it can definitely do more harm than good. But it's become so accepted as the 'first line of defence' that it's almost impossible to have any form of sensible conversation about it - further information can be found in 'trauma is really strange' and 'the body holds the score'.
Anyway, I can kind of see where the OP is coming from. It's tough to think you can heal and be your best self even you're constantly being told you haven't got access to the magic bullet.
CBT aka Cruelty Based Therapy. Shudder. I have had this inflicted on me. (A bit off-topic, sorry. Was just moved to comment :) )
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It looks like my thread is off topic now.
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Er … yes … its been a lifesaver for me ! And i dont hesitate to say this either. Not for everyone but .. we all appreciate this . This forum is called menopause matters . Not hrt matters
what a strange post …
I can understand OP worrying, as we are prone to it in peri or meno.
I like this "This forum is called menopause matters . Not hrt matters"
I'm sure there are many women not on HRT who sail through meno and enjoy old age with good health, it's just this place is here to deal with those who struggle without, and I guess those who don't need HRT don't come as they have no problems.
In my 30's I looked forward to meno, I just thought it meant no periods.
I am 55, mine started at 42, I still get night sweats and I hope the anxiety and depression I get are meno related, as I would hate for the problems I worry about to be real.
My flushes got so bad, I needed 100mcg patches, bleeding meant I had to reduce, fortunately, it appears that the heat improved on it's own, so only a fan is needed all year around, no day flushes, I am on 25mcg now with utrogestan.
I do not mean to invalidate meno anxiety, I just cannot think of a better way to word it.
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You are at risk as a woman if your estrogen and/or testosterone levels fall, as they do during perimenopause and menopause, according to that link & a wealth of science on the subject.
Yet, while some of us take HRT, nature didn't intend for us to have as many hormones at our age.
I am afraid I didn't read the link, I am tired and no attention span.
Yes, HRT increases quality of life for some women, I bet there are many who don't take it and have good health.
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The average age of death used to be significantly lower and the average age of menopause much higher, 58. So we didn’t live long after our hormones dropped, just a few years. Through modern medicine and lifestyle changes we live much longer and go through menopause much younger so ‘nature’ actually didn’t intend for us to live long on reduced hormones. Of course many women don’t suffer poor health without HRT. But it’s about risk and statistics and then you make up your own mind what you want to do. There really doesn’t need to be any HRT-bashing or any pressure to go on it either.
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The average age of death used to be significantly lower and the average age of menopause much higher, 58. So we didn’t live long after our hormones dropped, just a few years. Through modern medicine and lifestyle changes we live much longer and go through menopause much younger so ‘nature’ actually didn’t intend for us to live long on reduced hormones. Of course many women don’t suffer poor health without HRT. But it’s about risk and statistics and then you make up your own mind what you want to do. There really doesn’t need to be any HRT-bashing or any pressure to go on it either.
The average age of death literally had nothing to do with modern medicine and lifestyle changes, and everything to do with poverty. A quick look at the feudal system and the tombs / graves associated with medieval cathedrals shows rich women living well into their 80s and 90s, i.e. surviving their menopause by several decades. Women didn't 'naturally' die much younger, they were effectively killed by political and cultural systems that enslaved their bodies, and this has been the case since about the 11th century (especially in so-called Christian countries). If we track history, we can see this actually gets worse from Tudor times and can likely be linked to the rise of capitalism, which brought with it even more exploitative practices. It kind of peaks in Victorian England (sorry, not familiar with elsewhere) when, actually, we already have medicine, however, it's also when we have mass urbanisation, extremely poor employment conditions and the workhouse.
In other words, adult women quite 'naturally' spent half their lives bleeding and half their lives menopausal.
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It looks like my thread is off topic now.
Sorry but we often do meander about a bit on threads :) Do you feel that you've got some answers though?
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Right. Sure. Thanks for the history lesson that I’m already well aware of coming from working class families. The *average* age of death was much younger for most of history, for most women. For various reasons, including but not limited to, improved health & sanitation. Whatever nature intended, it’s factual that few women survived long enough for it to be a problem that was addressed like it is now.
Like I said, whichever way you decide to go, is usually supported on this forum, although HRT is clearly getting bashed on this thread. There’s a whole section for alternatives if you don’t choose HRT. We should support everyone whatever their choice while still sharing facts and data that’s relevant.
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Wow,busy thread,may I put my tuppence worth in??
I think women who want HRT yes,definitely go for it,I am NOT on HRT and I do have to say,at times, I HAVE felt this is the only answer on the forum,I've been on here for a few years now and the women on here have been my saving grace,so I AM NOT knocking the forum,I do understand what KarineT is saying though, I suffered terrible anxiety and depression when I first joined and it did seem to me,it was HRT or nothing,then more anxiety because I was reading that my heart was going to fail or my bones were going to snap,so sometimes it can be confusing,anyway I've managed without HRT but definitely do not dismiss it xx
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Average age of death statistics are a red herring. They are skewed by the very high infant mortality rate.
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You can adjust for that. A lot of women died in childbirth. I’m certainly not going to argue about modern medicine improving life expectancy. It’s not worth arguing such an established, well evidenced fact.
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You can adjust for that. A lot of women died in childbirth. I’m certainly not going to argue about modern medicine improving life expectancy. It’s not worth arguing such an established, well evidenced fact.
Yeah, sorry about that, probably because I'm a history teacher (so constantly having to deal with students' misconceptions) and before that worked in a research setting for several years. I think I'm pretty accustomed to how 'facts' are bandied about and misrepresented. But I agree with your claim that modern medicine did improve outcomes, however, I would add that the only reason outcomes needed improving was because of other effects of modernisation. I think it's hugely important for women to be empowered to deal with any tosh arising from the 'natural' arguments.
And aye. I agree with others who have said that the emphasis on HRT can be somewhat overwhelming. Obviously, this has been misconstrued as 'an attack'. Interestingly, I've not spoken up before because I'm worried about the hostility this would attract.
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This is a very very interesting topic. I have found myself wondering at times about the oft quoted women never used to make it much past menopause. Obviously this is really pushed by Meno Drs esp Newson Health etc. What I would like to know is if you factor out women dying in childbirth, what proportion of women reached old age? I always think of say Dickens novels or say Jane Austen. There were always a few old crones popping up here and there. Older women throughout history have had roles to play whether as grandmother or wise old woman with the simmering cauldron haha. I just wonder if they only made up a very small proportion of a given population? As I said, very interesting.
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Just adding that I too feel the HRT element of this forum is the focus. The alternatives thread should be for that, alternatives, not the place where those not using HRT should be forced to post, just because they're not using HRT.
The topics are: all things menopause, postmenopause, personal experiences. No topic section is titled HRT
For me, I have to use the alternatives thread as I'm trialling bhrt. I don't see that as 'alternative' simply not mainstream NHS HRT. I for one would love to have conversations with other woman using bhrt... But most are either not on this forum, or stay quiet :-X.
We are ALL looking for support, irrespective of the journey we choose or, in many cases, are forced to explore.
X
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Spoken up about? Sorry I’m not following.
This post was started with a hostile attack on the members of the forum, based on what appears to be a single inaccurate comment elsewhere here. This thread is full of hostility to HRT. So, let’s be fair to everyone including those taking HRT who are being told it’s ‘not natural’. Neither is ibuprofen but we don’t withstand pain because it’s natural.
Take it, don’t take it. You can find advice and support for both here, and plenty of it. Which is great! I don’t see any rule saying you have to post on alternatives section, but they categorise I assume to make it easier to find things. The ‘HRT element’ is dominant because it’s hard when starting out and this is where women have to come for information. I don’t know why it’s a problem honestly, it’s what members seem to need the most help with. It shouldn’t be an issue.
The ‘meno doctors’ ( they were ordinary GPs first and saw a need ) push the statements on mortality and age of meno because they are constantly having to fight against well disproven myths on HRT as they try and help us. Yes they make money from it, should they do it for free? It’s sadly the state of things because of poor care on the NHS. I welcome their help. Maybe one day none of us will have to pay for this because of the work they’re now doing.
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I’m very confused with the thread as interesting as it is.
The forum topics are dependent on what we, the members, discuss. It’s lead by demand for knowledge.
I’m just as interested in hearing from member’s who choose to not medicate as I am with those that do. There is no guarantee that any of us will continue on our current path, I’ll jump onto Camel Poop if it’s scientifically proven to help, sod nature’s intention!
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Haha,nice one Tora, I agree whole heartedly with what you said,even though I'm not on HRT , I do realise that some women would not have managed without it,symptoms just too tough but this forum is for women to have a voice,regardless on their view point or their topic. As I always say to women joining here,ask anything you want,there are no taboos
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Morning Jaypo, I totally agree. I don’t like the cards we are dealt so it’s imperative that support exists here whilst respecting opinions/choices that differ to our own.
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I'm very glad i came on here as deciding whether to start HRT was a difficult choice for me. My nurse is very anti HRT as both her sisters had breast cancer & she's convinced it was due to HRT. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't
I do feel people advocate HRT on here but not in a negative way. More a please try it if its something you want to do as it COULD make your life better...& so far it has.
I think its a very subjective matter & there are some women who don't want to go on HRT or can't for whatever reason.
I've gone through some very old posts on here & i personally never found any pushy behaviour, just facts.
I think women should do what they feel is right for them, seek out the facts & the truths & go from there.
I think if i came on here & said i need help but don't want to start HRT, i think i would still get encouragement to find another solution to help ease my symptoms. But that's just how i feel. Maybe I'm biased because you've all been kind & welcoming to me.
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Ah, thank you Sheri for your lovely post to us all.
Yes, at the end of the day that’s what we all want, to help each, offer suggestions and support.
I’m so pleased you’ve started to feel some benefit. xx
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The average age of death used to be significantly lower and the average age of menopause much higher, 58. So we didn’t live long after our hormones dropped, just a few years. Through modern medicine and lifestyle changes we live much longer and go through menopause much younger so ‘nature’ actually didn’t intend for us to live long on reduced hormones. Of course many women don’t suffer poor health without HRT. But it’s about risk and statistics and then you make up your own mind what you want to do. There really doesn’t need to be any HRT-bashing or any pressure to go on it either.
I take it, the flushes used to be really bad for me, thankfully they have calmed down a lot.
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Thank you Sheri for such a great balanced post and I’m so pleased to see your own news this morning, couldn’t be happier for you. If it wasn’t for this forum and Davina’s first programme I might not have gone private to get HRT and I’d still be miserable and feeling awful every single day, like I had for 7 years trying to ‘do it naturally’. I’m very grateful for this space.
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For me HRT was the ONLY thing. I desperately didn’t want to take any medications or Hrt, but unfortunately an extreme perimenopause created severe physical problems that needed treatment and forced me down a road i didn’t want to go down. I held off hrt for a couple of years, determined to manage without it, but symptoms became so extreme that “informed choice” was not even an option for me and any element of “choice” was totally removed as I was desperate, sleep deprived, ill, in agony, and could no longer function normally. I developed joint pains that severely affected my mobility, night sweats that were so severe I had to change my bedding during the night - shocking sweats, followed by uncontrollable shivering. I started with painful stomach cramps, constipation and IBS. I had extreme hot flushes that made me have to run out of places into the fresh air to be able to cool down and breathe and sometimes they were so bad I actually passed out. I also had something i think is called formication that is described as a sensation of insects crawling on the skin…whereas in reality it was more like standing in a beehive and was actually painful. I have tried to come off HrTat times, but have since developed Vaginal Atrophy which cannot be controlled by local oestrogen only. I have had two severe flare ups recently where I was doubled-up in agony and felt like I had a roll of barbed wire in my bladder, running to the toilet every half an hour to oass 100ml of wee. It was not a UTI but it certainly felt like one, but only responded to vagifem reloading. I know all my physical symptoms noted here (and many others nit mentioned) are meno related as HrT eased or removed all the symptoms completely. I had issues with hrt when my usual product was not available and I was forced to change. I’m back on my usual patch and am doing well…for now I know I’m not the only woman on here who has suffered such an extreme menopause and “forced” onto hrt because symptoms have been off the scale. Mine got to a point that they were so bad I felt like would not be able to live like that. I worry about any talk of there being alternative “natural” ways to treat meno….I agree - there are…but they do not work for everyone. I’ve spent a fortune in the past trying them all. I think I just wanted to say that for some women - hrt (“manufactured hormones”) IS the only option and IS a lifesaver - quite literally, and is not a “choice”, please remember that.
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JoJo42 and poppy toast….this was me too.
JoJo…..you’ve written exactly what I wanted to write but couldn’t find the words. Thank you.
This forum was my saviour and I have stayed to help others.
I’ve never read any posts that criticise anyone for opting not to take HRT. I’ve found everyone to be helpful and supportive.
And I never even considered taking HRT for heart disease, dementia or osteoporosis. These were the least of my worries. I take HRT because my symptoms were so horrendous. xxx
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I’ve taken Hrt for 15 years and it’s a saviour for me too but never sensed any pressures for or against .
Heart disease is biggest killer of women so anything that might reduce that is a godsend . There will be lots of women not taking it and not on this forum as they have ‘ sailed’ through menopause .
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Dementia is actually the leading cause of death.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/leadingcausesofdeathuk/2001to2018
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Globally it’s heart disease. In the uk for females it’s dementia and Alzheimer’s and males I think it’s still heart disease but likely will be dementia soon. It’s semantics anyway, it’s *a* leading and significant cause of death for both men and women in any developed country.
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Thanks Jojo42. I was the same. I VERY much relate to not having a choice.
Dotty, thank you for sharing, when I found this forum reading your journey gave me strength.
Poppy, I was prescribed and became dependent on opiate meds too.
Winterose, totally agree.
ATB - 7 years is a tragic disgrace.
Informed choice/education needs to start in school.
I wish I’d found you all at the beginning but I’m so glad I have now. :)
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Found this but only skimmed through it.
https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/research/establishing-the-risk-related-to-hormone-replacement-therapy-and-cardiovascular-disease-in-women
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Hello ladies.
When I first joined this forum it had been three years since my last period and although I was coping with the symptoms I was beginning to struggle. Then, as now there were ladies who were taking HRT and others who were managing without it. I never felt that HRT was the only route to a happy and healthy life.
I know women who don't use HRT but when I hear them complain about their health I wonder if a little replacement oestrogen would solve their problems, for example a friend has developed tinnitus and I believe that can resolve with HRT. Perhaps it all comes down to how bearable the meno symptoms are and how much they impact your life.
My ongoing symptoms are the emotional ones however sometimes I think I would trade the crying spells for muscle aches or swap the jitters for a headache so the decision to try HRT may all come down to personal circumstances and tolerance levels.
I have always found this forum very supportive of all women regardless of their opinions on HRT and I am sure that will continue. We are all trying to get through this the best way we can and a problem shared as a problem halved!
Wishing you all well ladies.
K.