Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Nas on June 18, 2022, 11:11:00 AM
-
Am I right in thinking that the progesterone in the Mirena coil is released into the uterus only and not the rest of the body?
I’m asking as feel rather PMTish, jittery, crampy and grumpy.
Also have spotting, but that apparently is usual until the Mirena settles.
I had the Mirena fitted nearly 3 weeks ago and don’t know now if these symptoms are due to the coil or Oestrogen not being right again.
I seem to recall that symptoms, were bubbling before the coil, but can’t remember now!
The journey is relentless!
-
Hi Nas
Bare with it, it's still early days for you
Les xox
-
Thanks smarty,
I’m just worried I’ve caused more issues now, by having the coil.
My Oestrogen wasn’t right beforehand and now I just don’t know what’s causing what!
Is it safe to come off Oestrogen with a coil, to see how I feel? Then I can start again. X
-
Hi Nas
I'm not 💯 sure but a friend of mine has the coil only, no other hrt, so I'm guessing you could, hopefully someone else will come along and help you
Les xox
-
I think you will feel worse if you come off oestrogen as the oestrogen will be negating the side effects of the progesterone (to some extent at least). What about upping your oestrogen? My friend had to go up from a 50 to 75 patch to balance the mirena.
Hope this helps x
-
Thanks Perinowpost
Yes I’ve been on the 75 patch for a good while now, but don’t feel very balanced at the moment. Either I’ve stopped absorbing or the coil is creating symptoms of its own ( or both!)
X
-
Far as I'm aware, you don't need the oestrogen to offset the progesterone, because I've had the mirena peri and post meno with oestrogen (hrt) only for 9 months out of something like 5 years.
It's difficult to disentangle all the symptoms. I felt better with the mirena because it stopped catastrophic bleeding. There is a bit where it (the coil) goes silent, because it's doing its job, at which point I stopped thinking of it as a foreign body having an unknown effect (I could see the effect, no more bleeding, I didn't hugely care about anything else).
I became significantly worse on oestrogen, but again, difficult to disentangle symptoms because there was so much other stuff going on in my life (crazy stressful job, youngest had just left home, etc). I felt as if I was on a roller coaster that I couldn't get off ...
But yes, your symptoms were bubbling before the coil, I remember. Has it got the bleeding under control? How is the bladder?
-
If you’re on 75 Nas you could try upping to 100. The good thing about the mirena is your uterus is protected if you want to try that.
Personally I didn’t like the mirena (documented on here). My symptoms which were similar to yours started within 2 weeks of having a inserted and resolved within 48 hours of having it removed. I had no issue untangling symptoms, I do wonderfully well on oestrogen only but need progesterone as I still have my womb.
I tried with the mirena for 6 months (which is a long time when you’re not feeling well), but it never got any better. That said I wouldn’t give up yet they work really well for some (lucky) people xx
-
Thanks for your thoughts.
Elk, yes symptoms I think were bubbling prior to 3 weeks ago. The feeling is a mix of PMT and brain in fuzzy ball. Very sensitive to sound and loud noises and very jittery/ anxious irritable.
Maybe it’s the coil and low oestrogen?
The bladder is on the cusp.. not awful but probably not far off.
Currently very lightly spotting as present, but no real bleed to speak of.
So all in all, I don’t know. Suppose I up the oestrogen as you have suggested Perinowpost and see what happens? I have just read why you didn’t get on with the coil.
Did the low mood begin immediately for you? What do you take for progesterone now then?
Xx
-
Classic prog intolerance symptoms. Flat mood started within first 2 weeks. I have to qualify that by saying I have tried every progesterone going (including private prog half dose) and struggled with it all. I currently use utrogestan 7 days vaginally (it’s the only regime I can tolerate), with annual scans to make sure it’s working which it is. I have a couple of days of terrible prog withdrawal with it though, but it’s all I can manage. Sorry I have no better solution x
-
Ah I see. I was great with utrogestan orally, but it didn’t control the bleeding.
I’m glad you have ve found a regime which works now, that is a relief.
Not sure what to do now then.
Maybe increase oestrogen to see how I feel.
X
-
Plus I was fine on Tuesday and Wednesday, felt great.
Since Thursday I’ve gone down hill again.
Maybe it is the mirena.
-
Just read on the Newson factsheet, that some women do react to the mirena progesterone and it can feel like PMS.
Settling down period is 3/6 months!! That’s a long time!
It’s coming out!
-
Nas, PMS so horrid!
But you’ve come this far, if the physical symptoms have subsided, might you just be able to live with this awhile longer?
You’ll never know unless you try and you don’t want to ever look back on this and say to yourself I wish I’d given myself longer. X
-
Yes March, PMS is horrendous.
Who knows what to do any longer.
It’s just relentless.
Is it the coil ?
Is it low Oestrogen ?
Is it both?
My brain is caput! :-\
On and have developed some strange pigmentation changes on my face, like dark patches . Just read up on it and it says that this could be caused by hormonal changes :'(
-
Your brain, mine, or anyone else’s will be unable figure this out.
You’ll have to ride it through staying where you are, or have it removed.
You can’t chase symptoms, either your body adjusts or it won’t.
But you’ll have to give it time.
You’ll know if it’s working if you can gradually tick off one symptom after another slowly subsiding xx
-
I think it depends where you are in meno, there is a risk of the lining becoming too thin if you have no oestrogen. If it's for a trial period I doubt it would be a problem though I'm inclined to think stopping oestrogen will most likely make you feel worse.
-
Your brain, mine, or anyone else’s will be unable figure this out.
You’ll have to ride it through staying where you are, or have it removed.
You can’t chase symptoms, either your body adjusts or it won’t.
But you’ll have to give it time.
You’ll know if it’s working if you can gradually tick off one symptom after another slowly subsiding xx
I agree with this. Reading what you've said, I'd strongly encourage you to keep a symptoms diary so you can see what's happening and when and whether there are any patterns, e.g. always feeling better at the beginning of the week (not suggesting that's the case, it's a random example).
And sure, things take time, and I don't feel as if I have tons of time to hang around, but this is how medicine kind of works, with a 'wait and see' approach. If it helps at all, maybe write a list, like a pros and cons list, head one column 'what I know' and only include things that you yourself have evidence of from your own experience, and then a column 'what other people know' and only include reported stuff there that links to someone else's experience. I find this useful when I have so much information that it's hard to see the wood for the trees.
Keep us posted.
EK
-
Thanks all.
I feel horrendous. Cramps, anxiety, jittery and bad tempered.
The cloud of doom is looming.
I don’t think living this is way is great! Euthanasia is preferable!
-
Thanks all.
I feel horrendous. Cramps, anxiety, jittery and bad tempered.
The cloud of doom is looming.
I don’t think living this is way is great! Euthanasia is preferable!
Nas, I have no advice but I just wanted to say I am so very sorry you are feeling so bad. I have been reading your posts but do not have any advice. I wish I could take away your pain.
-
Thanks Flossie
Well have started bleeding like a period, with cramps, headache etc. I thought this coil was meant to stop all that??
God give me strength!!!!!! :'(
-
Hi Nas I think bleeding can happen when you first have coil fitted and is classed as “normal “.
I know it’s hard, but try and persevere. xx
-
But why do feel so awful Dotty? Like PMS.
Why is this happening?
-
But why do feel so awful Dotty? Like PMS.
Why is this happening?
I feel like you do whenever I am on any progesterone. I feel so deeply depressed and want to stare into space like I am in a kind of trance. I start thinking I need to die too. It is just so awful we need it but it can make us feel we want to die.
-
Hi Nas.
It's probably as your body is getting used to it or could you need more oestrogen? I know I felt dreadful until I got onto the right dose of oestrogen. x
-
Thats it Flossie, just in a trance. Staring into space. I didnt have this with utrogestan.
Dotty, i just dont know. I darent meddle with oestrogen right now, too scared!
:'(
-
Thats it Flossie, just in a trance. Staring into space. I didnt have this with utrogestan.
Dotty, i just dont know. I darent meddle with oestrogen right now, too scared!
:'(
That sounds like depression to me. At least for me I have depression when I feel this way. I really am sorry you are going through this.
-
Big hugs to you Nas, I’m so sorry you’re feeling rubbish. X
-
Mmm maybe depression caused by mirena? I didn’t have this before? Or did I? God I can’t remember. I know symptoms were surfacing prior to May 31st.
Will give it 4 weeks more. If the same, it will come out. Else my holiday will be ruined (again!)
Thanks March xx
-
Mmm maybe depression caused by mirena? I didn’t have this before? Or did I? God I can’t remember. I know symptoms were surfacing prior to May 31st.
Will give it 4 week more. If the same, it will come out. Else my holiday will be ruined (again!)
Thanks March xx
I would think so. I get depression when I am on progesterone so it could be the same for you.
-
Do you get depression on all progesterone Flossie? Utrogestan was great for my mood but didn’t control bleeding.
Now feel in between a rock and a hard place.
X
-
Do you get depression on all progesterone Flossie? Utrogestan was great for my mood but didn’t control bleeding.
Now feel in between a rock and a hard place.
X
Yes I do. Is it possible for you to take a contraception pill to stop the bleeding? I know some people cannot. If it were me, I would prefer bleeding to the depression. I know we are all different though.
-
Nas, it is known that the coil releases more progesterone in the first few months than it will do later.
So, even if you are having some systemic side effects, these should improve when the dose reduces. I wouldn't confuse things by changing other stuff (increasing estrogen) or you won't know what is causing what. Everyone always wants to Change Something, Do Something, when they experience side effects. Sitting with it and waiting and doing nothing is often the hardest thing, but the body is on biological time and things take their own sweet time...
-
Yes joziel, you are absolutely right re: not changing anything just yet.
The trouble is, when you must work, interact with people, run a home, deal with teens etc etc, having permanent PMS is not conducive with life.
It’s very tough.
I didn’t know the coil releases more progesterone in the first few months though.
-
Oh yes indeed it does Nas, that’s why it takes a few months for things to settle down and so many women give up on it.
Do your family all know you have these PMS symptoms including the teens? X
-
I warned my partner March and he’s trying to be patient with me.
The teens are just putting up it.
Work is tricky. I work with SEN kids and was very snappy last week!
It really isn’t practical with everyday life to be this way. If it was weeks rather than months, I may think differently. But this PMS is brutal!
-
If it doesn't settle you might consider a Jaydess instead, 14mcg vs 20 for the mirena. It doesn'tllast as long and I have no idea if you'd get it on the nhs.
-
Try shouting Nas, really really loudly. Good when you’re in the car alone!
I used to shout ‘f…off’ over and over, also bashing a cushion about on the floor helps. Really go for it like a tigress! X
-
March, you did make me chuckle!
Yes, will try that. Unfortunately it will be partner or son who gets the bashing, if I see any more mess in the house! 😬😀
Will see what this week brings. All these symptoms as far as I’ve read, appear ‘ normal’ but tough to endure when you’ve already had 3.5 years of being held hostage to hormones!
-
I spotted fir nearly 6 months but after heavy painful periods lasting a week it’s worth it cos after those first 6 months of spotting I had 2 very light pain free bleeds barely anything! So I’d get another one fitted when this one runs out for that reason . Just need to get my oestrogen levels up . I think you could do with 100 patch now instead .
-
If you can preserve with it it will be worth it for the reduction in bleeding and as part of the HRT to protect your womb alongside your patch but a higher one things will start to balance out for you . I work withSEN kids too and it’s stressful aswell as having teenagers so getting rid of periods is a blessing for me now just have joint pains now instead lol 😂
-
Oh I’m sorry to hear Mirena is causing you problems Nas. I thought it might be your answer. As others have said I suppose you have to give it a bit longer to see if things settle down. The crampy pms symptoms certainly do sound progestogen related. I think you are doing it in the right way trialling one thing over a period of time. It sounds as though for you, if you don’t get on with the Mirena, it will be a trade off between manageable symptom control but keeping your estrogen low enough that you don’t bleed on say Utrogesten ( which I think was one that you got on with ). The bleeding must be debilitating and it may be that you can very slowly reduce your estrogen dose over time until you find the ‘no bleed’ sweet spot. Hopefully the Mirena will settle in time and you maybe won’t have to try this x
-
Yes, it does release more progesterone at first - I've searched to try to find where I read that. I can't find it, but it was official and not just someone's account or experience.
Newson Health pdf says: https://www.newsonhealth.co.uk/uploads/2021/07/Progesterone-Intolerance-v21-02.pdf
"Some women do react to the progestogen in the Mirena; when it’s first inserted it can feel like you have PMS for the first few months. Any reaction tends to settle down at around 3 to 6 months and most women do not continue to have symptoms of intolerance after this."
-
Nas, just to say I’m so sorry you are having such a hard time. It’s like a never ending nightmare sometimes. I tried the Kyleena coil and had mine removed after a couple of months as I couldn’t stand it but to be honest I don’t feel much better now so could have misread my symptoms! All you want is for someone to tell you what will make you feel better but annoyingly we have to help ourselves when we are feeling totally rubbish. Thank goodness for this forum. Just take every day as it comes and see how you go. Big hug x
-
Hello there
I have been longing to contribute to this thread, but the admins have only just approved me. I had the Mirena fitted on 16th May, a couple of weeks before you Nas, and I am having it removed on Wednesday!
I have a history of terrible PMS prior to having my children, so the Mirena was recommended as the gold standard for me. My main perimenopausal symptoms have been depression and anxiety which were solved by being on a 100mcg evorel patch and doing two weeks of vaginal Utrogestan. As the Mirena was supposed to be the most convenient way of keeping the womb lining thin and has very 'low systemic effects' I booked myself in for a fitting. Literally the next day I was completely flat and the day after I cried all day which I don't think I have ever done before. Then I continued to feel very flat, depressed, tearful, occasionally OK and intermittent terrible brain lethargy. I saw a private menopause specialist and she said stick with it for three months, but after reading all the stories on mums net and elsewhere on the internet I decided that I'm not going to risk it never getting better. I also thought that the progesterone component was a body identical progesterone like Utrogestan but actually it's the same synthetic progestin that is in the pill I took in my twenties which took away my libido and probably contributed to depression and pms. Clearly the Mirena works brilliantly for most people but the psychiatric side effects are well known and listed on the leaflet that comes with it and if you've had a history of pms then you are more likely to be one of the unlucky ones who finds it a struggle. I will let you know if I notice any changes when I have it removed.
Thanks for reading and good luck to you!
-
Hello there
I have been longing to contribute to this thread, but the admins have only just approved me. I had the Mirena fitted on 16th May, a couple of weeks before you Nas, and I am having it removed on Wednesday!
I have a history of terrible PMS prior to having my children, so the Mirena was recommended as the gold standard for me. My main perimenopausal symptoms have been depression and anxiety which were solved by being on a 100mcg evorel patch and doing two weeks of vaginal Utrogestan. As the Mirena was supposed to be the most convenient way of keeping the womb lining thin and has very 'low systemic effects' I booked myself in for a fitting. Literally the next day I was completely flat and the day after I cried all day which I don't think I have ever done before. Then I continued to feel very flat, depressed, tearful, occasionally OK and intermittent terrible brain lethargy. I saw a private menopause specialist and she said stick with it for three months, but after reading all the stories on mums net and elsewhere on the internet I decided that I'm not going to risk it never getting better. I also thought that the progesterone component was a body identical progesterone like Utrogestan but actually it's the same synthetic progestin that is in the pill I took in my twenties which took away my libido and probably contributed to depression and pms. Clearly the Mirena works brilliantly for most people but the psychiatric side effects are well known and listed on the leaflet that comes with it and if you've had a history of pms then you are more likely to be one of the unlucky ones who finds it a struggle. I will let you know if I notice any changes when I have it removed.
Thanks for reading and good luck to you!
Welcome to the forum. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I am constantly being told by GPs to try it and I always refuse as I have depression anyway and fear it will worsen it.
-
Thank you Flossieteacake!
My GP said that she would be rich if she had a £ for every time she'd heard a gynaecologist recommend it.
I wanted to add that I really feel for you Nas, it is absolutely horrible to feel this way and to be trying to manage day to day life feeling so bad is a nightmare. And if you have issues with heavy bleeding, I can see it is a less easy decision to get it removed...
-
Thanks for your input you lovely lot! :thankyou:
I swear ( and I do a lot of that !) that I would go insane without this forum!
Well, today has been a good day ( surprisingly) and I feel quite normal .
This is how it seems to go. A couple of good days, followed by feeling like I’ve been dug up!
I emailed my specialist this am. Of course, she said stick with it, I need to give it more time and that the alternatives are not so good? Whether she meant bleeding, provera or norethisterone, I don’t know.
Admittedly I feel a bit under stress at the mo. I work on a SEN school and it’s sooo busy right now. To top it all, I’ve been told I’ve got to work on the production and do the lighting ! WTAF.. I am a TA working in the 6th form and know NOTHING about lighting! Plus, I’ve got to negotiate my pay grade, which is lower than I should be on!
Anyway, will see how this weeks goes. Any more nonsense and the thing is coming out. My surgery don’t do removals, so I’ve found the phone number of two local clinics who may do. I plan to call them this week to find out what the score is re removal of coil. In truth, I would like it to work as utrogestan doesn’t do the job for the amount of Oestrogen I need ( medium dose). I’ve tried and tried but to no avail.
Thanks again ladies,you really are my saviors during what is frankly a shite time of life.
Xxxxx :)
-
Thanks for your input you lovely lot! :thankyou:
I swear ( and I do a lot of that !) that I would go insane without this forum!
Well, today has been a good day ( surprisingly) and I feel quite normal .
This is how it seems to go. A couple of good days, followed by feeling like I’ve been dug up!
I emailed my specialist this am. Of course, she said stick with it, I need to give it more time and that the alternatives are not so good? Whether she meant bleeding, provera or norethisterone, I don’t know.
Admittedly I feel a bit under stress at the mo. I work on a SEN school and it’s sooo busy right now. To top it all, I’ve been told I’ve got to work on the production and do the lighting ! WTAF.. I am a TA working in the 6th form and know NOTHING about lighting! Plus, I’ve got to negotiate my pay grade, which is lower than I should be on!
Anyway, will see how this weeks goes. Any more nonsense and the thing is coming out. My surgery don’t do removals, so I’ve found the phone number of two local clinics who may do. I plan to call them this week to find out what the score is re removal of coil. In truth, I would like it to work as utrogestan doesn’t do the job for the amount of Oestrogen I need ( medium dose). I’ve tried and tried but to no avail.
Thanks again ladies,you really are my saviors during what is frankly a shite time of life.
Xxxxx :)
You are so welcome. No wonder you feel low with all you have going on at work. I am very happy to hear today has been a better day for you. :)
-
Yeah it's difficult sometimes to know whether stuff is due to life itself or hormones. There is also a lot of pressure on women to be unflappable and never angry about anything and caring and loving always and to feel like there is something wrong with them if they are not. Whereas really that's just not realistic in terms of being human.
Not to say that's what's going on for you Nas, but do be kind to yourself as well ;)
-
Joziel you are right, the pressure on women in particular is really quite immense at times.
Well, last night my mum messaged to say my dad was in hospital having had a mild heart attack. That threw me completely ( I live 150 miles from parents) .
Today I went to work, cried lots and came home! I feel like death.
I rang a nurse at a local sexual health clinic and she said only a very time amount of Mirena hormone enters the body. So maybe the Oestrogen isn’t right still? Feel very low and tears, yet yesterday, absolutely fine!
I just don’t understand :-\
-
Joziel you are right, the pressure on women in particular is really quite immense at times.
Well, last night my mum messaged to say my dad was in hospital having had a mild heart attack. That threw me completely ( I live 150 miles from parents) .
Today I went to work, cried lots and came home! I feel like death.
I rang a nurse at a local sexual health clinic and she said only a very time amount of Mirena hormone enters the body. So maybe the Oestrogen isn’t right still? Feel very low and tears, yet yesterday, absolutely fine!
I just don’t understand :-\
I am really sorry to hear about your dad. I can understand how awful it was for you to hear that and be so far away from him.
-
That is awful news about your dad. I hope he recovers. I think medicine is amazing when it comes to heart-related conditions now...
But in terms of your own response, it's perfectly normal if you have bad news like that, to come home and cry. I would, whatever else is going on. I think there is a trend in today's society to pathologise all negative emotions. Like we shouldn't feel angry, sad, upset, frustrated etc - and there's something wrong with us, if we do feel these things. But these emotions are often a perfectly normal response to external life events - as with you at the moment Nas. So I wouldn't assume it is something to do with your coil if you came home and cried x Just a reflection of how much you care about your dad.
It is true that the hormones in the coil are much less than in the POP or in other forms of HRT and are delivered locally. So they are less likely to cause systemic effects like PMS. BUT... they still can and do, for some women. That's known, as well. However, in many cases they will settle after the first 3-6 months. If you can stick that out.
-
Sorry to hear your news about your Dad Nas & hope he is ok. You’re bound to have your coping mechanism very challenged at the moment with the change of HRT to settle down. Think lining up what the score is with clinics is wise re removal even if you don’t have it removed. It always helps me to know I have a plan b, c, d, e etc! Hope you have a better day tomorrow x
-
Thanks again everyone.
I’ve totally written off today, just a hideous nightmare!
My dad has been to the theatre and had heart surgery. Mum is going to update later.
The Mirena nurse rang back today. She said that only a small amount of hormone enters the blood stream ( which is what you said joziel) and therefore it is unlikely that the Mirena is causing my mood swings etc.
It must be low Oestrogen causing the issues I think. Mainly because I’m very noise sensitive, jumpy and snappy. Nurse recommended upping the Oestrogen. I’ve only got 75 and 50 patches, so may try x 2 50 patches.
It’s so odd, as yesterday, I felt so ‘ normal’ and today, well, just awful. Or is that ‘ Mirena mood swings’? God alone knows!
-
Hi Nas
That's very frightening news about your Dad, I really hope he makes a good and speedy recovery!
I'm having my coil removed this afternoon after five weeks of terrible mood related symptoms, depression, brain fog, lethargy. I was told by the menopause specialist that I should give it three months to settle down. However, I can not live my life this way and I was fine on the Utrogestan vaginally with a 100mcg patch so am not going to take the risk that it may not settle. All the health professionals do say that only a small amount of the progestin enters your body and therefore it is less likely to cause problems but it is now acknowledged in all the scientific literature including the leaflet that comes with the Mirena Coil that there are psychiatric effects in approx 6% of people. Here is the link to the Electronic Medicines Compendium info about the mirena coil, which lists everything about all medicines in the UK and includes the patient information leaflet that comes with it.
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/1132/smpc
If you look at section 4.8 you can see that all the things you mention are listed under undesirable effects.
If you look at section 5.2 pharmokinetic properties it says that it initially releases 20mcg of levonorgestrel a day into your uterus and that goes down to 18mcg a day after 56 months, (these measurement are calculated from measuring blood samples (or plasma levels) so I was not optimistic that there would be a huge difference after 3 months.
if you look at the patient leaflet that is included, it warns you about psychiatric symptoms.
I know the Mirena is brilliant for lots of people, but for some it does cause mood problems. I will let you know how getting it taken out changes things for me and I will also ask the nurse removing it what she has found to be the common reasons for removing it prematurely.
I hope you have a calm day and you hear good news about your Dad.
Good wishes to all!
-
Hi sas,
Thanks for your input on this. Have you had your coil out yet? Please do let me know how you get on going forward. It will interesting to see if your symptoms do subside.
I’ve decided to ditch the patch and and swapped to sandrena. The patch was curling at the edges too soon and I’ve a feeling absorption wasn’t great. I need to know if this is the progesterone or the lack of Oestrogen causing the mood swings. I do know that my symptoms were bubbling prior to the coil being fitted.
The nurse did say she would remove mine when ever I wanted, which is better than the local clinic I contacted, who said 3 months, end of!!
I know progesterone in general can be a nightmare to tolerate for many women, but IF this coil thing CAN work it would be great for me. I’m going to keep a mood/ symptoms diary to monitor. Today has been much calmer, Dad has had surgery and recovering... phew!
If tomorrow, I’m back to a blubbering irritable wreck, then I think that’s the end of the Mirena, as it isn’t conducive to work and home life at all.
I bet loads of women end up having it removed prematurely, due to side effects. But then utrogestan isn’t always tolerated well and I get on great with that !
Thanks again and do keep me posted :)
-
Hello ladies.
I don't want to add to the confusion but mood swings continue to be a post meno feature for me and I have never had the coil (though it has been suggested) in fact I am on a very low dose progesterone (Cyclogest) but two sachets of gel which I think equals four pumps, so a hefty dose. I now wonder if my emotional ups and downs are the result of too much Oestrogen?
Nas - I feel your pain, I had a much better day yesterday, felt lovely and calm. This morning was good too but about 10.30 am the jitters etc started and I have been on edge and tearful most of the day. It is a complete mystery as nothing has changed. Thankfully my recent bleeding has stopped but I still have breast tenderness so hormones are still messing with me.
Wouldn't it be great if there was an easy formula to work out the best way to balance our hormones so we could all just get on with our lives. As they say in scientific circles 'more research is needed'
Take care everyone.
K.
-
Hi Kathleen
I’m sorry you’re still having these mood swings.
From personal experience having tried 4 pumps, 3 pumps and on down I’m far better off on the lowest dose possible. This of course impacts how much progesterone you need so it’s a difficult one to achieve.
I’d sort of thought I was really getting somewhere in April then covid came along and upset everything.
Nas - sorry to hear about your Dad, but you must feel relieved that his surgery went well. Another big stress for you which is horrid when you have so much going on.
Hugs to everyone xx
-
Hello there Nas
I hope you are feeling OK and that your Dad is recovering well?
I had the Mirena Coil out 4 days ago and I definitely feel much better. I don't feel desperately down and depressed in the mornings anymore and I have much more energy. Time will tell whether this is a permanent change as you always wonder if it is just your imagination. It is a relief to have it gone. I also met an old friend of mine on Friday who I knew had the Mirena Coil and I asked her about her experiences on it. She had worked out that substantial weight gain had occurred shortly after having it put in five years ago and that she'd been down and lethargic ever since but had put that down to just being at this difficult stage of life and had accepted it as normal. She needs to have it taken out so she will also be able to see if there is a difference. Of course, most people seem to do well with the Mirena and I don't want to put anyone off trying this method, but it does need saying that there can be mood related problems for some people (which are said to mainly resolve after a few months).
Have a lovely Sunday everyone!
-
Hi sas,
Im glad you are feeling better, i expect you are feeling relieved!
6% is a low figure and one which the nurse quoted last week too.
I don’t know what to think in truth. It’s been in 4 weeks now and I’ve been very up and down, just like having PMS. But again, that could be low Oestrogen ( maybe). I know when I was on femeston Conti, towards the end, I felt wretched and irritable.
Grrhh..it’s so hard !
-
Hi Nas
Ah that's interesting about femeston Conti, that also contains a progestin similar to what is in the Mirena and might have been responsible for your low mood.
I was moved quite quickly up the oestrogen patch strength from 50mcg which had no great effect to 75mcg after a month which is quick, but it is what the Chelsea and Westminster Menopause clinic recommended for me. They have been a leading light in the UK for PMS and menopause and their recommendation is that people who have suffered from anxiety and depressive symptoms/hormonal depression should be on a reasonably high dose of oestrogen. I'll attach their recommendations for prescribing HRT for GPs and you can see their recommendations for anxiety and depression in the 'troubleshooting' section.
https://www.chelwest.nhs.uk/professionals/gp-advice-and-troubleshooting-guide-for-hrt-in-primary-care
I still felt bad on 75 and so my GP did a blood test and saw that my oestrogen levels were still at the bottom end so suggested I experiment with adding one pump of oestrogel, equivalent to another 25mcg of an evorel patch (which I also happened to have when patches were out of stock everywhere) and see if I felt better. I felt better, if not amazing, the next day and have continued to be on it ever since. The C&W also recommended utrogestan vaginally which worked fine with me, but recommending the Mirena as another good option. I should have just stuck with what worked and not gone down the Mirena route though it would have been a lot more convenient than having to have Utrogestan every night.
Perhaps ask your gp to do a blood test to check oestrogen levels, plus bloods including thyroid and also testosterone. If your oestrogen is low there is no reason why you can't boost it. I have just started to testosterone to the mix as it was low and it is also supposed to help mood, motivation and generally the regaining of one's mojo!
let me know how you get on!
Good luck!
-
Hi sas, that’s interesting to read.
So, do you use a 75 patch plus one pump of oestrogel each day? If you felt bad on 75, but great on 75+ one pump, does that suggest you aren’t absorbing the patch??
I could try this regime to see how it feels I guess?
I tolerated the progesterone in femeston well, but the Oestrogen was way too low. I had gone from 75 patch to 1mg and my bladder went awol.
I like the convenience of the Mirena, so will try to get the Oestrogen right I think, as lots of these symptoms, particularly hyper sensitivity to noise and smell, pinpoint to possible low Oestrogen ( maybe!)
I’ve also got testosterone but reluctant to add a third hormone while things are so volatile at the moment.
Keep me posted.. I’m going to slap on a pump now, as I think I do better on a slow release of hormones, rather than a sudden rush!
Xx
-
Hi Nas
After I did well on a 75mcg patch and one pump which was the equivalent of 100mcg oestrogen daily, the gp gave me 100mcg patches which is what I'm using at the moment (no pumps) and that works just as well.
If I were you I would experiment with an extra pump and see how you feel, but do it every day so that it is constant. The fluctuations in hormones and falling oestrogen levels are what cause pms symptoms so I think I'd just keep doing that every day for the next month or so and it might make you feel better and you might find that the Mirena is fine for you.
When I upped my oestrogen dose to 100, it literally made a huge difference the next day. I was sure I saw it in my skin and was able to sing reasonably passably again (my voice had got less clear), not to mention feeling happy and optimistic. This was before the Mirena came along and upset everything. But maybe this was just me and you'll find it makes all the difference to you. If you tell your GP what you are doing and request a blood test then you can see where you're oestrogen levels are at and whether you're doing the right thing for you.
I think it is wise to wait until things are settled before starting the testosterone, I only started yesterday and am going to go very slowly.
good luck with the extra oestrogen, let us know how it goes!
x
-
Thanks sas,
You’ve really given me hope today 🙂
Im going to do what you suggest and keep a diary.
I think I’m low in oestrogen personally, as I know these symptoms were surfacing before the mirena. Plus I’ve been on 75 for 2 years now, so maybe I do need an increase. I was of the mindset that I must stay at 75, come what may, but maybe I don’t.
Okay, thanks again, I appreciate your input.
Keep in touch x
-
I was just thinking sas, the logical thing to have done would have been to got the oestrogen optimised first, then get the coil fitted. Then I would have had more of an idea what is causing the issue.
Oh well, onwards and upwards I guess ! Xx