Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Vicky81 on April 26, 2022, 07:40:25 AM
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Hi all,
Firstly, i wanted to thank you all for your kindness and support that you have shown me throughout all this....as its new to me and not sure my arse from elbow with it all!
Anyway, i thought i's report that my consultant said that if i wanted to experiment with the patch, i could, if feeling worse, just peel it off and stay on 100mg/or lower.
Last night at 4.30pm i decided "what the hell" and put another patch on to make it 150mg.....i had NO night sweats at all last night and i can say today i am full of energy! My mood feels good, although anxiety is still present.
Not sure if anyone else had experienced this? I just hope this MG is my golden ticket xxx
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It concerns me how often and how quickly you are changing your dose and you’re now on such a high one. The true effects of that won’t be felt for weeks. I don’t know, you do what you think but honestly I am concerned with your approach and lack of patience. Especially combined with changing your ADs a lot too. Please be careful.
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Yes, I echo ATB's thoughts entirely. Frankly, I was horrified to read of another impatient increase so soon in tandem with such a high dose of ADs. It feels quite reckless? However, as ATB says, do what you think, but please do take care! I, along with others I imagine, am very concerned for you now. We write this way because we CARE!
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That’s a lot of oestrogen …are you taking any progesterone at all now? I know you had difficulty with the utrogestan. I echo what the others say. Much as I would love HRT to be magic dust and make everything better overnight, it simply doesn’t work like that. Change one HRT thing at a time, wait three months etc. You can address your mental health issues at the same time, but allowing at least six weeks between dose changes as it can take that long to see the full benefit. You can also address your mental health problems in the meantime by getting yourself on a CBT waiting list, NHS or privately, or accessing some of the free online CBT the NHS does to get your started. Sorry if I sound harsh! It’s just that you are being a little unrealistic in your expectations of HRT perhaps ?
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Yes, to reiterate, we come from a place of genuine concern. A lot of your previous posts concerned me too. I also find it hard to believe any doctor would approve you increasing like this, and also starting both ADs and HRT at the same time. I am very worried about you Vicky. I think you are making yourself so much worse and I really want you to get some professional help. I don’t believe, I’m afraid, that you do have a doctor monitoring all of this because it would be reckless for them to advise you the way they have. Completely against guidelines. Please be honest. Did you just increase this by yourself? You are going to suffer worse symptoms almost guaranteed.
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Hi all
Thanks for your messages and concern. Honestly i am fine. My AD has been upped at the rate it would normally be, for any patient. I am going to stay on the 150mg sertraline as this suits me best. I spoke to my GP on the phone this morning and said for me to carry on with Sertraline, and if the 150mg patch is making me feel better, then stick with this as some ladies need more. I will just wait and see.
As for the patch, yes he said i could indeed try it, if it didnt help too much or made me worse, then just stick to the 100mg. I am due to start Provera on 1st May as the Utragestan didnt agree with me at all.
x
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Slightly confused about which thing you’ve upped, both? But as I say, your choice. I’m still not convinced any doctor would increase your oestrogen again and I will say here that anyone new to HRT reading this, please don’t do the same. Have patience and wait 3 months before increasing and only working with your actual doctor.
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Hi
I have upped Sertraline 3 weeks ago and intend to stick on this dose.
The patch was 100, now i am trialling 150. If need be, i shall go back to 100 if i do not feel it is benefitting me. And yes the consultant dis say (when i asked) that i could try it and see, so here's to hoping it works out!
Vicky
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Yes Vicky I concur with what others are saying, it all sounds so reckless.
It also isn’t sending good messages to people new to hrt.
Too much estrogen can cause anxiety as well as too little, it’s a question of getting the balance right and it doesn’t happen in a day!
The more you chop and change the longer your body will not be able to adjust.
BE CAREFUL x
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Yes Marchlove, my concern now is sharing something so reckless and never recommended by anyone on a forum full of anxious women new to this. Honestly I think it’s super irresponsible. I know we are here to share but upping estrogen like this is so so dangerous and I don’t think it should be shared as if it’s actually something recommended. It isn’t. At all.
Please anyone new, DO NOT FOLLOW THIS! It’s dangerous.
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Didn't you just start 100 patch a couple of days ago, Vicky? And now 150? I'm trying to get my head round the changes as they seem to happen so fast?
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Postmeno started the new patch of estrogen 8 days ago by my maths based on another thread and also said after a day night sweats were going on that so I too cannot make out why on earth there’s a need for an increase. Also, a 100 patch has been prescribed, if you add another patch that’s 200. How did you get a 150 patch? If you just decide at 4.30 you’re going to increase it, you won’t be able to obtain the correct dosage straight away. None of this makes any sense.
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Hi Vicky81,
Firstly I want to send love and support to you as I know how much you have been struggling with your symptoms.
I think most of us on here understand how difficult this whole process is and finding the right balance of HRT is way more tricky than I ever imagined.
I have replied to you previously about how long any adjustments can take to settle in. On at least two occasions on my 'journey' I have been at the end of my tether, desperate to find answers and have emailed Dr Currie. I only reached out to her after waiting three months to see how my symptoms balanced out. On both occasions within days/fortnight of emailing her, things seemed to slowly settle down for me without the need for any further adjustments to my regime.
I think we all understand how hard it is to grasp waiting three months when we are feeling so desperate for things to improve but I am glad I was given this particular piece of advice on here as it seems to be an accurate timescale to wait.
Best of luck.
Ali x
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Thanks all,
But i dont feel reckless, i did what i was advised and i have felt better today. There have been numerous posts on Mums net too that i seen about something similar.
Anyhow, i will carry on and see how i get,
Alibeau - thank you for being so kind, and understanding x
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Wow Vicky, I am also worried for you I am afraid. You are on a 150 patch? Didnt you just start 100? Do you know how powerful hormones are?
I am baffled as to who is guiding you in all this? Why did you increase to 150 and how??
HRT isnt a quick fix to every symptom. Ive been on this journey 3 years, many ladies even longer. We all want to feel well asap, but it doesnt happen overnight.
Be careful, you are flooding your oestrogen receptors massively!
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Hi Vicky! I totally know where you are coming from ❤ all my love to you, it's a vile thing to go through this peri malarkey.
Just to say, I spoke to a lovely GP today, as I was panicking that I wouldn't feel better, as I have been on my HRT now for 6 weeks. I did feel better week 2 to 4 but that could have been my natural hormones balancing, rather than the HRT. She said to me that it was too early yet and not to increase just yet and wait a few more weeks, as some of the ladies have said on here. It is great that you hear that some ladies feel better after a week or a month, but scary you're not feeling the same!
My GP made me feel better and said there was no point in testing my hormones, as I was on hrt anyway... she goes with just the symptoms. This actually made me feel better ❤
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is it is a good idea to stay on one dose for a good while to see how you get on. She also wanted me to have a blood test, another ECG and my weight taken (I'd rather she didn't do my weight... I haven't weighed myself since 1975 😁😁)
Much love and we will get through this ❤❤
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I’m so concerned about others reading this I’m going to keep repeating it: NO DOCTOR WOULD ADVISE THIS. It is absolutely not what anyone would do. I don’t care what you say. Very few women in the world are on that dose and they don’t get put on it after a week. It’s simply not true.
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ATB thats fine hun I'm not here to argue....
Unicorn- sorry I did get your private message thank you so much sweets! Yes il see how I go...and will let you know ....thanks for being lovely x
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Vicky, just wanted to send you all my love, hugs and best wishes ❤️
I absolutely know how hard all this is when you’re new to all this, and we all come to this forum for advice and support from the many experienced ladies on here
You are having advice from your consultant regarding the HRT and from your GP regarding the AD’s
You know your own body and what is working or not working for you and as you go through this journey you’ll learn lots more I’m sure of it
I’m sure you’ll find a routine that works for you and all will settle down
Keep posting on here for advice and giving us updates as it helps the rest of us going through the same
Much love ❤️
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Awwww thanks curlygirl! Lovely to chat as always! Xxx
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Awwww thanks curlygirl! Lovely to chat as always! Xxx
❤️
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I’m not here to argue either, as you know I’ve sent plenty of messages to you helping you.
I am posting here to get help and give help, but in a safe and careful way. If something is obviously very serious and dangerous, I think it’s our duty to say so. There are desperate people here and giving dangerous advice can lead other women to a bad place. If you’re not following the guidance about increasing estrogen then I don’t think you should share what you’re doing. That’s my opinion.
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Hello Vicky81.
I have been following your story and I completely understand your desperation to feel well again.
I am in no position to comment on the medical advice that you have been given but I wanted to send you hugs and I hope that you will keep us updated on your progress.
Wishing you well and take care.
K.
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Kathleen thank you so very much...just trying to get well that's all. Your kind message has made my night.
Lots of love to you xxx
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Another thought, my understanding was that hrt contains much much less oestrogen than that of birth control pills. So surely even at the level Vicki is taking it won't be as much as if she had chosen to take a birth control pill?
Glad you are having a good day Vicki, you certainly could do with one!
X
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Gnatty- thank you so much! That's what I've read many times too...thanks for your support xxxx
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Gnatty: In short, no. Long version:
Why they might prescribe the contraceptive pill instead of HRT:
During perimenopause you’re getting menopausal symptoms (like hot flashes, night sweats, and so forth), you’re still producing a fair level of hormones on your own. And, unlike typical HRT which supplements hormones in your body, birth control pills literally take over.
They override your own hormonal production — in effect, signaling your ovaries to take a breather and stop producing estrogen and progesterone — and supplant it with the hormones in the pills themselves.
In other words, you get just what is in the pill. You’re not adding hormones on top of what you’re producing on your own, but literally replacing them.
This can be a welcome relief in stabilizing your hormones during perimenopause — a time when fluctuating hormones can be the source of problems.
It’s also a key reason why birth control pills are often prescribed if you’re perimenopausal and suffering with symptoms: In perimenopause, you’re still producing non-menopausal (that is, higher) levels of estrogen and progesterone on your own, so adding more hormones (as you would if you went on standard HRT) might actually make you feel worse.
Your hormone levels are usually fluctuating a great deal in perimenopause, so there could be days when HRT would provide you with too much… and wind up causing symptoms from excess estrogen or progesterone.
All in all, you’ll get a set, steady amount of hormones that won’t fluctuate according to your own ovarian production
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This is why we need good doctors who advise us, so we don’t get misinformed. Don’t treat HRT like ‘the pill’, they’re different.
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To add to ATB's explanation - this is the reason why I suggest to younger women that they might consider taking the CCP instead of HRT especially in very early peri-menopause or even before peri-menopause has officially begun (sccording to the medical definition) - and in fact did just that yesterday on another thread.
The other important point is that the "standard" combined contraceptive pills given to much younger women in their fertile years do contain a stronger synthetic type of oestrogen - often one called "Ethinyl estradiol". Some women continue to take this throughout what would be their menopausal years - although it is generally advised not to take pills containing this synthetic oestrogen after a certain age due to clot/stroke risks etc.
Instead, two other combined contraceptive pills have been developed - QLAIRA and ZOELY which contain the bio-identical estradiol - the same oestrogen our bodies produce - and this can be taken to a greater age than the synthetic ones and I think docs can apply flexibility to this too.
This is discussed on the main MM website here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/contra2.php
It may even mean that ADs are not required, once the hormones are stabilised - because the dramatic fluctuations are eliminated.
Another article about perimenopause and hormone turmoil is also helpful:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/article-perils-of-the-perimenopause.php
Hurdity x
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Also to add that VERY high dose of oestrogen can also suppress the cycle - which I think is what the Studd regime advocates in some cases of reproductive depression - I haven't looked this up recently but the info is all on his website (if it still exists!)
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity xx
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https://www.londonpmsandmenopause.co.uk/reproductive-depression.php
For info xx
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Hi Vicky
Just to say I’m thinking of you and understand. This forum is support not judgement so please do keep posting and updating us on your journey. A big hug from me ❤️❤️
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Hi all and thanks sweetooth.
I've decided to go back to 100mg. I didn't have any adverse effects from the 150mg but listened to you guys.
However, since perling the 50 off ....yesterday I felt a bit more anxiety, left work early. And last night slept so heavy with very vivid dreams.. I dragged myself up at 08.40....bleary eyed and went for a quick run. .
Is this hormonal related to me going up then back down? Yes I shouldn't have tried it, but I did .
How long does it take for my100mg now to settle?
Xxxx
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Yes it is because you are jumping up and down Vicky, it will settle and how long that will take really depends and varies. For me when I went down as my doctor advised, it took a day or two and I felt much better. However as you’ve increased quickly a few times and now down again, you may have to wait a few weeks or longer. All the same advice already given applies, remind yourself it will pass, do other things mentioned here and many times privately to help the anxiety and perhaps if able take a few days off work to do things you enjoy to take your mind off it.
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Hi Vicky
Just to say I’m thinking of you and understand. This forum is support not judgement so please do keep posting and updating us on your journey. A big hug from me ❤️❤️
Those concerned here have given Vicky a lot of time here and privately and are concerned about other women following dangerous advice, as well as not being honest about the situation. You may not like it, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. You may call it judgement, but as Davina McCall just said recently, sadly because of poor care on the NHS a lot of women are following misinformation online and making themselves much worse. Side effects from too much hormones include suicide. Self medicating is dangerous and you shouldn’t come on and berate anyone for being concerned about it.
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Not even doctors can give the kind of advice that is available on this forum, I learned all about my condition on here and how to treat it and what treatment to ask for. I listened and took on board all the advice, took action and I am so much better for it.
I have nothing but praise for all the women here who took the time to give me great advice that I hope I can return the same to others suffering in particular, from the chronic condition Vaginal Atrophy.
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Which is great for those who do get it right and get relief. Not everyone does and the trial and error can add another layer you don't know if to carry on if something is not working. I've been trying for 13 months to get some relief..... giving it 3 months every time. I've increased transdermal and my levels have dropped. I COMPLETELY understand how desparation leads to trying anything. I seriously would take anything to help. HRT perhaps isn't for everyone and the forum has been a great source of information but when it's you walking in the shoes it's a pretty lonely journey. Love to all
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thanks all again xxxx
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Just wanted to say that I empathised so much with this thread. In the initial months of Peri two years ago at the age of 41 I suffered from debilitating insomnia and night sweats, where for two weeks out of every four I was getting about 3 hours of a sleep a night. I couldn't work or function, and GPs refused to prescribe me HRT. I felt so horrendous I was desperate to do whatever it took to feel better again, and for the first few months I also made lots of quick changes without waiting to see if things improved. You feel so awful, you just want to feel better.
I think you learn as you go on this journey that changing too many things at once or making quick changes never helps (both with ADs and HRT) and often makes things worse or confuses things. I can understand the warnings to other ladies about not following this route and I can also understand the compulsion to just want to fix the problem when you feel so bad. Sending you much love Vickie and hope things improve for you soon x
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Awww Gill thank you so very much, yes its hard hard...this is all new to me and just want to get this so right.
I thought i was helping myself because i have been like his since last Aug/Sept.
Anxiety is the worst xxx