Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Vicky81 on April 23, 2022, 06:39:49 AM
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Hi all
Having hard time at the mo. Anxiety still very bad I was gripping bed sheet this morning...didn't want to get up.
I'm on day 5 of 100mg evorel patch and I'm hoping this isn't making me worse?
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I feel tearful, irritable but I think last night I didn't have any sweats its just all this bad mood ...my anxiety is getting me so down .. please tell me this does ease??
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Sorry to add....I put patch on Tuesday, Wednesday i had day off didn't feel too bad....went out with my partner 4 a drink and went to shops,, I kept a note of it. In work on Thursday I was laughing and mood was ok,, just yesterday and today I feel bad again
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You are going through the mill right now Vicky, it’s a tough old journey.
As you are on a totally new regime, you are going to have to ride it out for a few more weeks, to see if this is the winning HRT for you I’m afraid.
I hate that we must suffer in the interim, but the fact that you had a good day in the week, counts for a lot.
100 patch is the equivalent of your 4 pumps of gel. I think in a few weeks, you will know whether it’s working or not.
Anxiety is usually the last symptom to go, it’s a stubborn one!
Have you ever considered cbd oil? A good quality low strength can sometimes work well for anxiety. Might be worth looking at?
Hang on in there! 🤞
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Thanks nas 4 getting back to me I'm suffering so much emotional pain. I've woke up so much anxiety I could have caused myself pain....I had to cone work wiyh tears in my eyes....I hope this 100 patch will work xx
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Oh bless you.
I really feel for you.
Does the anxiety ease during the day at all?
My anxiety is always worse in the early hours and by late afternoon, has usually eased.
I REALLY hope the patch works for you Vicky xxxxxx
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I really like the Headspace App and the YouTube videos they have. This one can help during moments of sheer panic. I also like to get up and exercise, even just jumping jacks or skipping, as this can help anxiety too and deal with the surge of hormones. It will ease. Keep telling yourself that. It’s just your body thinking it’s taking care of you.
https://youtu.be/-bibn6Y7vCk
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Thanks nas- thanks. I'm just so so low in mood. How would I know if the patch isn't working?
My mood is on yhe floor and my partner gets it in the neck in terrible.
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Well the patch is definitely going to be delivering estrogen to you. You’ll know if it’s the right dose with time. I’m afraid that’s the only way. Try not to panic about it. I know it’s easier said the done. But every time you feel anxiety you might think, it’s not working… that’s not necessarily true. Give it a month. Try not to Google anything. Try not to question it for the whole month. Try to do things that will help relax yourself in that time, limit stress if you can, mediate or even increase exercise can help with the anxiety. Do everything else you can to help ease the anxiety in the interim. The only reason I would go back to my doctor before the next check would be if a concerning symptom was constant and ever-increasing. Are other symptoms getting better?
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Is there any way it could be the Setraline and not hormones? I don't know enough about ADs, but maybe someone will be along with thoughts. Perhaps letting us know the number of changes/increases with it, over what length of time and how frequently will help those who understand it to help you? I seem to feel that ADs need to be fairly consistently used till established and for quite some time, a bit like hormone delivery methods and dosages? 🤔
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VIicky, I agree with ATB.
You will be getting some Oestrogen from that patch.
Give it one month. Try not to think about anything other than what you have to do for that day. Let the anxiety come, but try not to give it all your attention.
Your partner is going to have to be patient now. You are going through some massive hormonal upheavals and it will take time for these to even out.
Keep distracted, do nice things, go for walks etc ...
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Yes Nas, totally think that trying real hard not to give it attention helps a lot. Sometimes, it sounds silly, but I just say out loud, no this isn’t bad, this is wonderful! I’m excited not nervous! What a fantastic feeling!! ;D But my therapist advised it and it absolutely helps. It’s like turning the pessimistic thoughts around and faking it till you make it! If you give it energy it only gets worse.
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Thank you all. I can't believe how low I feel. Never been like this in my life. .
Where is best place to apply the patch to get best use?
Also I only use simple soap in shower now as no moisturiser in it. I'm just so wanting to get all this right x
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I get that, I fretted about how where and why at the start too. Don’t overthink it. Apply below the waist. I apply on the front top of my leg, one side Mondays, other side Thursdays for second patch application. I just shower as normal, making sure I rinse and dry really well and put patch on first before I apply anything else, including testosterone which is second and then thoroughly wash hands from that and go ahead with moisturiser etc avoiding where I put patch and testosterone. You’re doing absolutely fine. Just apply the patch and try to distract yourself. Don’t think about it. Carry on and remind yourself you are an intelligent grown woman who is capable of doing this right and dealing with whatever happens. Remind yourself of moments in your life where you have felt good, done well or simply felt happy and keep saying positive things to yourself. Our minds are incredibly powerful but we need to gently steer them to what helps us and not what is stopping us from feeling joy. You have got this!
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Great advice ATB.
Vicki, you are in that heightened state of over analyzing every action and continuously trying to tweak/ adjust to get yourself better. I totally get that - but you will drive yourself to distraction. We all know this as we have done it ourselves and know that just makes it all worse. Do try and follow the great advice you have been given and rest your mind from the overthinking.Xx
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Hi Vicky
Sorry you are having a rough time, I totally agree with Gnatty. I have been there and still 7 years in and post menopausal although not perfect in a better place than I was, you have to give the patch more time it is not a quick fix all solution. I like you have tried different HRT and the patch seems for me to work the best, I have good and bad days but I think it is not all hormone related. I do like ATB does by applying patch on different side of thigh. Try not to overthink , think about positive things places activities that you enjoy. You will get there I am sure, it is just for some it takes longer than others. X
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Thanks all. I just feel like I've took a backwards step....is it normal to be up and down on the patch?
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You have just changed your delivery method! You are bound to feel a bit all over the place, you need to give it time. X
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I've just walked out if work and burst into tears... been keeping it in all morning. I got in car and was crying to partner and then irritable bit and angry with him...I'm sat on bed now in floods still . Its like never ending ...then I'm questioning the patch ... is it this doing it to me?,
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Queen of reds- thanks . I know its a lovely mess but right now there is zero that I take joy out of it. Its just gone
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Hi Vicky ❤ so sorry you're still feeling awful, I've been having a 'meh' blip for a few days too, even on 6 weeks of hrt.
Stick with it hun, don't change anything and take a day/hour at a time xxxx
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Hi Vicky
Sorry you’re having a hard time.
I think though that you have to attempt to stop looking at hrt in isolation to everything else you have going on.
AD’s, especially when not properly supervised by a professional can be extremely disruptive which I think is where you main problem lies.
Who is monitoring all this for you? I know you work at Broadmoor, but just relying on colleagues isn’t really appropriate and in my opinion dangerous.
Please take this seriously and find a professional away from work who can help you.
Also, I don’t know if you drink, but alcohol and AD’s are a very bad mix, so please be aware of that also.
x
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Thank you marchlove.. .I don't think its the sertraline as I've been monitoring it all closely wiyh my GP. My symptoms were like this way before I started any AD....xxx
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Under the guidance of your specialist, you need to formulate a plan.
Whether it be to stick with the patch for 3 months, stabilize on an anti depressant, try CBT or counselling etc.
I also think you need a period of time off work. Your job must be very demanding? Just because you took 3 months off last year, that surely can’t mean that they would discipline you for taking further time off?
Your mental and emotional health is very fragile right now Vicky and you are also very young for such a high dose of hormones. Are they monitoring your Oestrogen levels carefully, against progesterone etc? Seriously, hormones are not to be messed with ( trust me, I’ve done a ton of that !) and whilst you had a good day in the week, you are very up and down and I wonder whether Broadmoor is the right place for you at the moment?
It’s entirely your call obviously, but as an outside looking in, I would try and take some time away from work in that first instance.
Are your other symptoms any better? Sweats etc? Is anxiety your remaining symptom?
Xxx
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Thanks nas you talk sense....my job isn't too bad to be fair...been there years and its like family.
To be honest they're not monitoring my hormones ...they say go on how I feel . But I've been paying each month for the female hormone test with medichecks to see.
I'm due to do another around 4 th May.
I thought last night I didn't have sweats....but il check again tonight. Yes anxiety; bad mood,; temper and crying x
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So, you had these symptoms before HRT, too? 🤔
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Okay, your job is fine.
That leaves these symptoms. They can all be indicative of menopause.
How long have you had them?
How long have you been on any HRT?
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Postmeno - yes it started with anxiety that I've never had before.
Nas- started around September October time....First the anxiety; then crying and anger; outbursts; can't grow my nails- very thin ...my hair started to get very coarse and thin too.
HRT- I started on gels in feb for8 weeks, now they have given me patches 100mg because the consultant told me I should have seen an improvement by the 8 week mark on gel and that it sounded like I wasn't absorbing it. X
On day 5 of the patch x
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Okay, well it’s very early days for you on the patch. My first symptoms were hot flushes, but anxiety and sadness then took over. I couldn’t drive properly at all.
Anxiety if hormonal can take a while to subside, but you have to be patient. Don’t see the patch as the only fix to this. It took me a long time to realise that HRT isn’t always the silver bullet we want it to be. We have to often make adjustments in our lives too.
It’s very frustrating and I feel your pain. Take a day at a time and if a day is crappy, so be it. There’s always tomorrow xxx
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Right. Now we're getting somewhere. So you had this anxiety last year, long before HRT and you were also off work for three months with anxiety was it last Summer?
Then, I seem to remember you increasing the amount of gel not long after starting it? Maybe more than once? Have I got all this right so far? We're getting a clearer picture of how things have developed for you, Vicky. It seems a period of stability is what's very important now and that may include reviewing the type of AD which may be recommended at work, but is possibly not addressing your personal needs? Some of the side effects of Setraline in certain people match what you're experiencing. Perhaps read the patient leaflet that comes with it? There's a lot of knowledge on here about ADs, perhaps more relevant to your circumstances. Your doctor, however, should have an overview from last year and talk things through with you.
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Postmeno - yes all the symptoms started in September....and well before I took any AD or HRT. I kept a journal throughout all AD and was the same on all. Teary; anxiety, ....bad mood.
We never knew it could be peri...I never thought of it.
Nas- thanks hun. Yes il try and be patient.....I just hope it doesn't make my symptoms any worse xx
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Do you mean you tried several ADs between September and January?
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Yes, fluoxetine, citalopram and now sertraline
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That’s a lot of ADs to try in such a short period plus now HRT? I think you should discuss the ADs again with your doctor and if they’re still what you should be on right now.
Also, did you say you are doing monthly female hormone checks with Medichecks? A serum blood test? Not finger prick right?
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Hi yes it seems that way but nothing was working...I was on citalopram the longest and now sertraline.
Yes I'm having blood taken by the nurse at medichecks clinic then it gets sent off xx
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Yes I thought that....shoukd I be on...but il continue with sertraline for now as only been on 150mg for just over 2 weeks x
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Did your doctor recommend that? Seems excessive to test so often, especially as hormones are all over the place. Usually symptoms are the tracker
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Just a few thoughts-
If the anti depressants were / are not working then why not try to come off them?
The tests may give you a rough idea of your levels , but unless they are sky high or really low if you are peri then they may not tell you much.
I think you are on quite a high dose?There is the option to start a bit lower and work your way up?
It does take 3 months to bed in , I nearly gave up initially and cried every morning , but slowly it improved.
Try belly breathing and relaxation , which will help calm your nervous system.
Check your B12, Vit D and Ferritin is optimal.
Look at taking Magnesium ( not oxide) better you does a spray- this is a calming mineral, and most have deficiency.
Is there an NHS meno clinic you can be referred to?
I do feel for you- the out of control panic and anxiety is the worst.
PMxx
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ATB- it was me that chose to test my levels....just out of curiosity really
Pepper- I'm the same crying all ghe time so I guess I just need to give it the time...which HRT were or are you on thst made the improvements in the end?
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Hi Vicky.
Did anything change last September?
Did you come off the Pill or change type?
Did you have Covid?
Or anything else you can think might have changed about then? X
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I think you are unnecessarily spending money on testing and is part of your anxiety. You don’t need to do this.
You seem to be on a high dose of estrogen, I might be confused when you started but I started mine in September and started on 50, moved to 75, now down to 50. I just thought that increases in dosage happened after a minimum of 3 months.
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ATB- it was me that chose to test my levels....just out of curiosity really
Pepper- I'm the same crying all ghe time so I guess I just need to give it the time...which HRT were or are you on thst made the improvements in the end?
I am on Femosten. The progesterone part suits me. We are all different and now I know i need to change after 6 years on it. But after all the literature I have read , I realise that protection form osteoporosis , dementia and GU symptoms are worth it in the long run.
I would start slow, it took Liz Earle 2 years before she got her dose right!
You will get there!
PMXx
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I think my concern for you is whoever is monitoring your dosages of both AD and HRT is not leaving you much "wiggle room" as there's not much further you can go on either of these high doses of both and yet no-one is factoring in that you are actually worsening on both. How safe is this? How can you best be helped so that this worrying trend is given closer attention?
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Thanks all
Marchlove- I moved flats and didn't settle....but I've moved all over the place....I've never had anxiety like this before ever xx
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Postmeno- I'm just unsure....I'm under a private clinic so I just need to go with what they tell me.
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The same doctor started you on ADs and HRT at the same time? Monitoring both now? What dose did you start on and when was it first changed? Sorry if you’ve already answered this.
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I know you told us that it was your colleagues who recommended the Setraline . The gp just agreed without any proper consultation or looking at options? As for the clinic, I can't understand them keeping increasing your doses when you tell them you are worsening. It just doesn't make any sense, at least to me.
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Hi Vicky
We’re you in the Pill? x
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Vicky just because your with a private clinic does not mean you have to go with what they tell you, and just because it's a private clinic does not mean they are 100% right about treatment all the time either, have you considered just talking to your gp about it, only my opinion but an NHS gp has nothing to profit by treating you, I know they get alot of stick for not being great with menopause issues, but at least it would be a 2nd opinion, did you ever have a test that actually comfirmed you are menopausal, you have been on alot of hormones in a short space of time, i wonder how safe that really is, if it was me I would seek a 2nd opinion from a completely different clinic or get my gp to give there view on the whole hrt situation.
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ATB I started on sertraline 30th jan. Then u started hhe gels 23rd Feb for 8 weeks,, then the patch 5 days ago. My consultant knows about the sertraline and my gp is aware if everything im on....the clinic also send letters to my gp to keep them up to speed. I started on 50mg sertraline then 100mg now 150mg. HRT is 100.g patch
Postmeno- what happened is he stopped the gel and put me on ghe patch (same dose), because he thinks I'm not absorbing the gel.
Msrchlove- no not on the pill.
Amazing grace- yes I understand,, I think il have about that. The AD side of things does not bother me as I'm aware of how long each one shoukd take as I'm trained it that side also, but sometimes anxiety takes over and I guess I like to get others opinions xx
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As this seems to come out of the blue Vicky, from what your saying, other than a flat move, which I don’t think would cause such a severe response, there must be some other trigger I feel.
Had you receive the covid vaccine fairly recently back in September?
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Hi V- I agree with you not 1 gp picked up....it was a female doc friend in Broadmoor that pointed it out.
Yes he has put me on patch now which I have to say I'm happy about as hated putting the gel on! He said I probably wasn't absorbing.
I'm gunna ride the sertraline 4 now vic as they say it takes a good 2 months at any dose.
How come you had horrid symptoms on the patch? (Previous msg to me)
And last night.....minimal night sweat if any at all....so I'm guessing this is working right?
Am I also right that the night sweats are usually first to go if HRT IS working?
Marchlove- hi hun ,, me and partner put it down to the flat move as I never ettled, couldn't sleep, then health anxiety started badly!!!! You are right....my symptoms cane out blue and were out of control! Even mu mum didn't speak to me because of my anger!!! I had melt downs, I even pushed my partner into the wardrobe!!! My days!
So yes, deffo hormonal...
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That’s a little concerning tbh hormones shouldn’t be so bad you mistreat others. Make sure your doctor is aware.
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ATB I know...totally agree it was so out of character 4 me completely. I told the crisis team and everyone that I have spoken to since.....the doctor at my work said she threw a glass across the room once! Thats how I kinda guessed it was hormones amongst other things. Then after the anger I would cry....hard and heavy.
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Marchlove- nope I had the vaccine inapril 21
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I did notice last night...no night sweats....I take it this is a good indication this patch is right 4 me?,
Thanks ladies .. I really appreciate your time xxx
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Oh that’s good to hear. I do understand the mood rollercoaster, but we must never use it as an excuse to hit or push others. If that happens I would consider it a serious crisis point and get immediate medical advice. I’m glad you did that and you addressed it. You know some kind of fitness thing, like boxing! Is a nice release, I’ve boxed for years and something you can channel these angry feelings we get into, may also be a help.
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Hard to say re night sweats and dosage, you’ll know more as the weeks go on as symptoms will come and go naturally with the rise and fall of estrogen, so a longer period will let you know how things are going.
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Thanks ATB. Yes I hope this continues! X
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Postmeno- I'm just unsure....I'm under a private clinic so I just need to go with what they tell me.
Have you done a search on here Vicky for posts from members who have been under the Studd Clinic. I think you mentioned that your doctor was associated/trained with them. Just so you have an overall view of this specific clinic.
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Hi hun yes I have...on here is where I first heard of his clinic xxx