Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Nas on April 21, 2022, 03:33:38 PM
-
I simply do not know what to do right now. Been on femeston conti 1mg for almost 12 weeks and have been steadily going downhill. Today I feel rough!! Bladder, tiredness, irritability, tearful etc etc.
Tried increasing to 1.5/2mg disaster!
I’m waiting for a review with Liverpool women’s hospital. However, I do have a phone appointment with Chelsea and Westminster next week ( as I WAS under them to begin with)
The temptation is to revert back to my patch and face the bleeding until I can speak to Chelsea to hopefully prescribe a different progesterone which controls bleeding better than
utrogestan.
It it’s never ending 🤦♀️
-
Hi Nas so sorry to hear you are feeling so bad! What happened when u increased? Sounds as though 75 patch was your sweet spot. Sorry may have asked b4 but could you try the mirena for now? X
-
:hug:
Sorry things are getting worse. I hope they come up with something suitable. In the meantime would it be an option to use a cut down patch alongside the femesron so you get more oestrogen but are still getting some prog?
-
I could Sheila, yes.
I have some 50 dose patches, which I have dug out. I’m tempted to cut one in half and stick that, I don’t know!
It’s either that or slap on the 75 and face the music re: bleeding.
Sweet, yes the coil is looking likely at this rate, as bleeding didn’t settle at all in over 15 months whilst on the patch, yet it balanced me.
The increase in femeston was too much for my body. I was jittery and even more grumpy and irritable.
Now I’m worried the 75 won’t work either and I will be stuck forever!
How are you anyway sweet? Any improvements yet?
Xx
-
Hello ladies.
I was all set to post a rant about my situation today and then I saw this heading and thought ' that just about covers it lol. '
I am reducing my Sandrena gel sachets at the moment and today my anxiety is through the roof!
I am also very tearful and my mood is low. These are the symptoms that can be caused by too much Oestrogen apparently which is why I am titrating down. The tearfulness is awful but it's the internal shaking feeling that I really struggle with. I feel scared and on edge all the time, it's horrendous and it was the final straw that led my to HRT years ago.
Any advice ladies? I feel so stuck and don't know what to do for the best.
Nas - we are trying different things but both feeling rough. I have posted before about my experiences with Evorel 75 mcg patch and, like you, it caused some bleeding but was beneficial in other ways. It was a long time ago for me but I would be willing to try it again.
Take care ladies and hugs to you all.
K.
-
Kathleen, I had the internal shaking at 5am this morning. That just about the straw that broke the camels back and tells me that this crappy journey us going to last for bloody ever! 😬😬😬
I’ve given myself a spray of lenzetto and will continue for a few days to see if it shifts the bladder problem. It’s 75 patch again!
I don’t know what that answer is Kathleen. It’s a total minefield. That only thing I can suggest is to do a complete reset. Come off everything and start low and slow again, so your receptors don’t become flooded too quickly.
When is your next HRT review?
X
-
Hello again Nas.
I completely sympathise with you Nas. My shaking started soon after I woke up and has been on and off all day, along with the crying which in part is me feeling sorry for myself and worrying about my future.
My next Newson Health review is not until June but our surgery now has a menopause nurse so I will see if I can get an appointment with her.
I actually came off all HRT in 2019 and various symptoms came back including hot flushes, night sweats and the beginnings of VA. The reason I tried HRT again was because the crying episodes also returned and of course the jitters ramped up. I
Eventually I had a phone consultation with a consultant at my local hospital and he told me that 'Less is more' but a week later I had an appointment with NH and Dr Boden prescribed unopposed Oestrogen for two months and she favoured high doses of Oestrogen. . I have stayed with NH since but now I wonder if that was wise.
Although we are both having problems I recognise that our situations are not identical. The fact that you have bladder problems indicates that your levels are too low whereas physically I feel okay so my HRT is likely controlling them, leaving me with the emotional symptoms such as internal shaking. To have both must be horrible and I feel so sorry for you.
I spoke to a friend yesterday who is doing well on one pump of Oestrogel and she suggested that time of application may be a factor for example use your spray at night instead of morning. Is that something you have tried?
There are many women on this forum who share our story and I have been here long enough to see others come and go. They too have had our range of problems but either they found the answer and haven't returned or are now suffering in silence.
Sorry to ramble on and I hope your plan of an extra spray of Lenzetto is helpful to you. Everything and anything is worth a try.
Wishing you well and sending hugs across the Internet.
K.
-
Hi Katheen,
I would certainly try and arrange an appointment with the menopause nurse at your surgery; June is still a fair way off..
I just don't know what to think about NH if I am honest. The more I read, the more I wonder if they are helping or hindering women. Obviously they are authorising the higher oestrogen doses, whereas a GP wouldn't be able to. But for how long can the oestrogen receptors carry on being flooded with hormones, before the oestrogen becomes ineffective?? Different 'specialists' have different opinions on how much O women actually need it seems. My 'specialist' (like the chap at your local hospital) believes that women only need a low dose to keep things ticking and that the higher doses inevitably lead to other problems later on. But at the end of the day, we women are unique with this hell and it isn't one size fits all.
It will be interetsing to hear what the nurse tells you when you speak to her? It must be so frustrating that your emotional symptoms are being so persistent and I honestly thought HRT would even those out for you, particuarly the sandrena which is decent quality stuff I have read. You can't come off HRT right now I don't think, that would send your body into a complete shock! Rather, try and get an appt with this nurse and see what her take is on your situation. I know when I mentioned the emotional stuff to my MS, the repsonse was pretty much "HRT doesn't necessarily fix all symptoms" Well I am beginning to think she was right!
It is very sad to think that some women may suffer in silence with this and I hope not too many. Alas, I fear to try and fathom the correct combination, is nigh on impossible! But as you say Kathleen, anything and everything is worth a try. Your friend may be right, timings could be key and I will certainly experiment with them re this spray of lenzetto. I feel like I am walking on egg shells right now; trying to feel well whilst avoiding the dreaded bleeding which makes the VA 10 times as horrid.
Today has been hard, I could feel the brain fog come over me at work, trying hard to keep afloat. Was so exhausted when I got home!
I have rambled and written an essy lol...
REALLY hope you feel better in the coming days Kathleen..
Take care :)
-
Nas I’m so sorry that you weren’t able to tolerate the increase. This is just my opinion but I would rather try the mirena and go back to 75 patch that you feel good on! Anything that affects us Mentally and that trembling thing is horrific to deal with. You will find an answer❤️
I dipped to an all time low yesterday and then off it went and I then had a good evening and a good day today🤞🤞Covid fatigue has eased.
Since vaccine though I can have good spells and then it can flip🤷♀️ I put on a 25mcg patch beginning of week as I was struggling badly so unless it’s helping too on top of my high immunity supplements🤷♀️
Kathleen it may be withdrawal causing your horrid symptoms? Are you doing it extremely slowly? I decreased too quickly earlier this year and the results were critical really critical. Have you had a thorough blood check done? I used Medichecks recently and would highly recommend them xx
-
Ladies, my heart goes out to you all as I’ve been there.
Post menopause for sure the lower the dose of estrogen the better, but at the same time progesterone dose has to lower as well.
So, so difficult to achieve and a journey I’ve been on for awhile.
But, it has/is getting better.
Personal experience only, but that is the best thing I can offer to you all tonight x
-
Morning ladies, it is vary hard to navigate. I have awful debilitating symptoms including the shakes, vibrations, jumpy on edge, nervous, panic etc and can 100% say mine is down to low Estrogen, I have all the other symptoms too. I used to think it’s too much Estrogen but it isn’t for me. The only bit of relief I get from the shakes, jitters, anxiety etc is when I’m having an upward fluctuation, and I mentally feel normal but unfortunately it doesn’t last and it’s more frequent the closer I get to meno, I’m 54. I have had times over the last 3 years from hell that my Estrogen was too high at times (not from HRT), I felt great in mood, happy, skin and hair was great, everything was great but an awful crazy libido, it wasn’t pleasant and would not want that ongoing ever again so I’d know if I was getting too much. We are all so different how we are affected.
I’m still trying to get well and not sure I will ever get there.
Best wishes all.
-
You may well be right Floo36, but I was coming from a very much post menopause perspective, so this may be where the difference lies. x
-
Hey Nas
I'm still with you on this one. It's never ends. I've now ei
Withdrawn from the awful mirtazphine and started Citalopram my mental health is at crisis point with insomnia and anxiety the AD meds have made me feel awful suicidal even
Thought I was going to be sectioned last week I went manic. Dr still saying need to get hormones up and as not absorbing implant in my next option. Some of term I'm getting worse XXX
-
Sazzle your doctor may be right. My anxiety and insomnia were due solely to oestrogen deficiency and went after 3 months on HRT. It won't cure longstanding mental health issues but oestrogen deficiency could well be making you worse.
-
Hello again ladies.
I am sorry that you are all suffering similar problems.
I felt particularly bad yesterday afternoon but in the evening I started to feel more normal. Goodness knows what today will bring, especially as I am supposed to be going out to lunch. I will either avoid the wine or drink a whole bottle. It could go either way lol.
Nas - thanks again for your kind comments. I will definitely be contacting my surgery and asking for an appointment with the menopause nurse.
Sazzle42115 - the implant might be the right thing for you. The NHS consultant I spoke to about eighteen months ago said he treated many ladies with the implant and it worked very well. I managed to get an appointment with Newson Health shortly after I spoke to him and I remain a patient of theirs. I am however following some other advice that he gave me as I was impressed with his knowledge and experience.
Floo36 - are you post meno? The experiences you describe mirror my own but I have been post meno for a long time. I began to feel as you do about two years after my last period so definitely low Oestrogen. The emotional symptoms have persisted while on HRT though others are well controlled. I am now wondering if the added Oestrogen is contributing to the severity of the mood changes and that perhaps a lower dose along with my already small amount of progesterone will be more stabilising.
Marchlove - as I am very post meno and experimenting with lower doses but like you I realise that other ladies will have their own hormones in the background.
Sending hugs and best wishes to everyone here.
K.
-
It’s the crap that keeps on giving, this menopause.
Well last night, I added a spray of lenzetto and did the same this morning. I felt much better in myself, more focused, gained clarity, able to get on with my work and juggle different jobs ( i work in a school for SEN children).
It is clear that I am Oestrogen deficient on the femeston alone.
I’m not going to ‘accommodate’ as the specialist suggested, because I’m not prepared to go to the damm toilet 10 times a day to wee! I’m not doing it! Even the skin inside my nose is dried out, not to mention anywhere else! :(
So, I will keep with the femeston and lenzetto until I run out. Then use up my sandrena with the femeston and then what ever I’ve got left in my box!
Don’t really want to go back to the patches, as I hate having something stuck to my bum. Will probably bleed soon, but who cares, I haven’t anything sinister and it’s all hormones kicking off anyway.
Kathleen, I hope you enjoyed your lunch today and had a good few glasses of wine!!
Sazzle, I have been thinking of you. God what a nightmare. I hope you aren’t working right now. Didn’t the Estradot help you in the end?
How are you sweet? Is the additional Oestrogen from the patch helping you do you think ? Fingers crossed you start to pick up very soon! 🤞🤞
March, the journey is horrendous to say the least and never ending it seems!
Floo, those symptoms you describe are just like mine and I attribute them to low Oestrogen for sure. I also fear that this is going to be forever and can’t see a way out right now, other than chopping a changing regimes until something clicks.
-
Hello again ladies.
Nas - I totally understand your strategy and the reasons for it. It's all very well for someone to tell you to 'accommodate' something but it isn't their life that's being disrupted and who knows if and when it will end.
I did enjoy my lunch today thank you and I shared a bottle of wine with my SIL. She is a few years older than me and took up running to help her deal with her menopause. She has never used HRT but she does like a drink and has consistently failed to give up nicotine lol. I don't have the same bad habits but sometimes I wish I did!
Back home now and the jitters are back but they are a regular afternoon occurance anyway so I can't blame the food or the wine. In about an hour or two I may feel calmer and by this evening I could be back to normal for the two hours before bed. Tomorrow morning will likely bring the jitters and tears again and so it goes on...
I am pleased that you have found a way to feel better for the time being at least. Hopefully a permanent solution will soon be found. This meno business would test the patience of a Saint.
Wishing you well.
K.
-
Thanks Sheila
I haven't got any long term mental health issues, this whole period has been an absolute nightmare.
I started not sleeping in March last year and by June was a complete wreck. GP prescribed my Sertraline for anxiety but couldnt tolerate it so switched to mirtzaphine just wish I could turn the clock back. This helped me sleep but I felt like a zombie, low mood and anxiety but completely blunted. Troubles started when I tried to stop it even after a relatively short time on 15mg, any reduction stared horrific side effects, I came of 4mg 2 weeks ago and have total insomnia, manic/psychosis I actually cannot believe what has happened to me.
I have reluctantly started Citalopram but only been on this for 9 days, feel really sick, shivering and honestly don't know whether to carry on or stop. People say the first 2/3 weeks are rough but depression/anxiety should start to go. I'm really not cut out for ADs it would seem but the start up and withdrawal are brutal. Have implant session booked for 21st May did want to be settled in terms of mood but I am absolutely wrecked.
What a mess
-
Oh Sazzle.. what a nightmare for you lovely...
I can’t believe the gps have allowed this to happen to you.
Mirtazapine is brutal and not to be messed with I don’t think.
Are you off sick from work now? I hope so.
Really hope the implant is going to work for you Sazzle.. I take it Estradot didn’t work ? Xxxxx
-
Glad you had a nice lunch Kathleen :)
Yes, I think the ms had a damm cheek telling me I would ‘ accommodate’ I bloody wont, as my body has totally dried out I’ve discovered!
Don’t feel so good again and very tired. Maybe cos it’s Friday, maybe the job is wrong for me now, I don’t know. But I’m knackered.
Tomorrow the 75 patch is going on. I need to be rid of the bladder problem as I’m worn out and my life is dominated by
the toilet!!
Crikey what an existence :-\
-
Nas when I read your first reply re the lenzetto I perked up for you but I’m sorry you are not so good today and having all that bladder trouble etc etc whilst trying to work. I think you’re right to go back to patch and then hopefully have head space to decide how to go fwd❤️
Thank you so much for thinking of me, I had a better day yesterday but horrible one today, sobbed and couldn’t even enjoy meeting up with a friend so has to come home. All this scares me how do I get better? I know I’m not low on Estrogen but since vaccine and recent covid it just isn’t working right😕 Is this just a matter of time? Thinking of you ❤️❤️
-
Oh sweet, how utterly frustrating. What happened when you met up with your friend? This should have been something nice for you.
I think it is still a matter of time. The only other option is to trial a different product to see if that helps? It’s not what you want to do i know, but nevertheless an option I guess?
I wish things would go back to how they were for you ❤️
I keep thinking things are going to improve on femeston but this week has been brutal. The bladder has worn me down! This weekend I need to formulate a plan of action to get through the next week!!
Xxxxxx
-
Such a dilemma for us both! That’s sounds right for you to reach a decision but totally get how hard that will be, I do so hope you get to a better place with hrt v soon🙏🏻
I’m not sure Nas what to do because the tablet was my magic bullet and my levels are really good so if I change, they could plummet! The jab has affected receptors or something, it would appear the estrogen is there but just not working right. Maybe covid has made things worse temporarily as I was making progress b4 it. Terrified to change from tablet incase it makes things worse!
Thank you for your support Nas, I’m willing you to get better v soon xxx
-
Hope you get better soon too sweet.. I really do :)
Don’t change HRT, if it worked before, it can work again for you.
The receptors must react to the Oestrogen at some point soon, I’m sure!
I feel dreadful today. Got horrendous period pain ( probably from the lenzetto) I only applied 3 sprays over 2 days! Head is pounding, heart racing.
Really and truly, I am in the bin, but trying hard to keep going at work and home. Existing rather than living. Just hell. I feel a hysterectomy might be the only option now.
-
Nas, did you try the mirena?
-
No Gnatty, just too scared of the mirena. Would be worried that it would make me feel worse and I don’t want yet more weeks /months of settling time. Just can’t do it.
-
Hi Nas, mirena could also be your key?🤷♀️ It would be good perhaps to try that b4 a hysterectomy! Can I ask why you are so afraid to try it?
Could you possibly have a bladder infection or something like that? Are your vaginal potions not working?
My problem seems to be imbalance/fluctuations even though I’m 60 no ovaries and well post menopause, but it all kicked off few days after Pfizer. I can feel good and then it flips, Iv taken extra little bit of patch off as I don’t think more is the answer. I sleep well but when I waken my body is unsettled (this has lessoned as after jab it was horrendous) then I have to rest my legs, can feel v low or anxious or both and this can change/improve as day goes on, usually evenings are better when I feel human.
If any ladies have had similar since vaccine please let me know, I feel il never be right again and that’s scary xx
-
Sweettooth do you take testosterone? I have no ovaries either - two/ three months ago I increased my dose from making one tube of testim last ten days to now lasting a week. It has been a gradual improvement but it's definitely there, and I would say the main benefit is that I feel more resilient, more able to cope with daily stresses etc.
-
But Nas, surely it's worth a try before going down the hysterectomy route. It's such a massive upheaval to the body - and anyone who tells you it's just a six week recovery is lying!
Last June 15 is firmly etched on my brain! I am in a good place now but my goodness it's been a hellish journey.
-
Yep Gnatty, you have a point.
You see, I thought I was post menopausal as no period for 27 months and bloods seemed to confirm this.
But then, end of 2020, bleeding begins erratically on the patch. Fast forward to January 2022 when I start femeston Conti and I’m bleeding every 23/27 days with pmt and cramps etc.
Specialist tells me, it’s not periods it’s that hormones influencing the womb lining? She has suggested the coil too.
-
Nas I think the timing of the bleeds together with the pmt and cramps is a little suspicious. Does it feel like the periods you used to get? My hrt induced bleeds are washed out versions of the real thing - usually pain free, no noticeable bad temper beforehand then short and light bleed so for me it's obvious which are which. I may be wrong but I thought the blood test for meno wasn't 100% accurate? I'm just wondering if the bleeding problems are because you should be having a monthly bleed. I agree with your specialist though that whatever the cause a coil is most likely to sort it out bit I know you're reluctant to go down this route.
-
Mmm, maybe you are right Sheila. I don’t know. I have used 3 sprays of lenzetto since Thursday and I have period pain already. If I am back to monthly cycles, then I’m only on day 13! When I was on the patch, I was often getting two bleeds in a month.
God what a fix. Maybe I should just start my patch and start utrogestan on day 15, to see what happens? And then investigate this coil?
These bleeds are like proper periods. The same length as before, same flow, not washed out at all. I think they’ve returned!! The only way to know for sure, is to come off HRT I’m guessing?
-
Yep just checked the gynaecologist emails and she talks about the gonadotropin and FSH and LH levels being well within the post menopausal levels and suggests the bleeding is a side effect of HRT?? I am baffled 🤦♀️
-
Coming off hrt will certainly tell you but it's the one thing most of will avoid at any cost. Short cycles aren't unexpected. My cycles have always been variable 5-6 weeks but for the 3 months prior to gp appointment were regular as clockwork 28 days - for the first time in my life. So of course regular periods = no treatment required. Grrr. I was 57 at the time which might have been a clue ???
Sometimes it's just so difficult to know what to do for the best.
Just seen your latest post. Does Google shed any light on the levels you have? Having been fobbed off with thyroid levels 'within normal range' I tend to be a bit sceptical. And the 'everyone is meno by 54' joke.
-
Lordy lord, it’s all very complex this stuff isn’t it?
Well the options remain I guess. Cyclical, norethistone or coil. Let’s see what ChelWest say on Thursday!
-
Good luck, let's hope they see things more clearly than we do.
-
Mmm.. yes.. I’m hoping someone can!
-
Hi Gnatty, yes I do use testim started last year and was told to reduce, my FAI at that time was 1.3 my specialist said to reduce to every other day and I noticed my mood drop gradually and level of FAI down to 0.5 which I know is low! so I have gone back to using everyday again. These hormones sure are a maze🙄
Nas please don’t think this is your life now because nothing stays the same and there is always hope. You haven’t exhausted every avenue so chin up ❤️❤️
-
Nas I meant to ask do you use Testosterone and if so have you had a problem getting it prescribed because of bc history? Tks x
-
Hi sweet,
Well Chelsea hospital prescribed T in 2019 for me.
Last year I asked for it to be taken off repeat, as I didn’t need it, due to the 75 mg patch relieving symptoms ( other than bleeding).
Now I wish I hadn’t asked for it to be taken off, as I bet I won’t get it again!
I have 2 boxes to last me for now.
I will ask for it again anyway.
Certainly feels like this is life, backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards, oh I’m shattered sweet :'(
Today I put on a 50 patch instead of taking my 1mg oral, as I figured I do better on a constant supply of Oestrogen. Guess what, I feel rough as hell!
How are you doing ? :) x
-
God i feel wretched this morning :'(
Full of anxiety, racing heart, palpitations.. it’s like every symptom has hit me over the last 12 weeks whilst I’ve been on that femeston 😪
What do I now?
I switched to a 50 patch yesterday but it’s probably not enough.
-
Add a bit more? It's only 3 days til your appoinment, not long to wait now.
-
Yes if you were feeling ok on 75 patch then 50 won't be enough?
-
Hello ladies.
Nas - I feel so sorry for you. I hate the way that hormones torture some of us.
Is it worth cutting another 50mcg patch in half and adding that for the next few days.
Do you have anything else that you can take for the anxiety? My GP gave me some Diazepam before my daughter's wedding last year. I didn't take them but it was calming to know that they were in my hand bag if needed.
I hope you get the help that you need at your appointment on Thursday. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Take care and sending hugs.
K.
-
Oh Nas Im so sorry to read your post😕 I agree with others you need more plus you are probably all over the shop what with changing etc. Thank goodness you have your apt soon, I’m praying for you to get some peace🙏🏻It’s bound to come❤️
I had a great day yesterday and anx this morning again, what a journey🙄
Sending you and anyone else struggling a massive heartfelt hug xx
-
Hi Nas. Sorry you’re still feeling so poorly. Just thought I’d check- have you ever tried Provera as the progestin element of your HRT? It’s very good for controlling cycles/bleeding and generally very well tolerated. I was on Provera for years for very severe endometriosis and it literally stopped all bleeding and pain. I have nothing but praise for it! It might be worth a shot just to see if it suits. I have never been able to tolerate any progesterones including Utrogesten. The only ones that have ever suited me were Provera and dydrogesterone x
-
Thanks all, :thankyou:
Well managed to get to work and get home again in one piece!
Oh the power of hormones..wow not to be messed with....
Flora, I haven’t tried provera, but I do have some norethisterone.
Are they similar? X
My plan was to stay on the 50 patch and utrogestan for a month, to see if I bleed. If I don’t, then stay on it ( providing symptoms aren’t too awful).
If I bleed, then request alternative progesterone. There is no choice really now. FC just wasn’t doing the job sadly, as much as I wanted it to be the ‘ one’ . I do get on with utrogestan, it just doesn’t control bleeding well.
Sweet, that’s great news that you had a good day yesterday, let’s hope this is the start of your recovery and you can get back to the place where you were pre covid xxxx
Well, onwards and upwards I guess.
I don’t know what to think really. I hate chopping and changing regime, but I’ve got to feel better for the sake of my job and life.
Thanks again and virtual support for anyone else having a crappy time of things 🌸🌸🌺🌺
-
Hi Nas. No Provera and Norethisterone are quite different. Norethisterone is testosterone derived - similar to levongestrel used in the Mirena coil but Provera is progesterone derived therefore more similar to Utregestan. I don’t get any side effects with Provera but did with the others. Might be worth a shot if you can’t get your bleeding controlled with the Utrogesten x
-
Ah okay, thanks Flora. I’m going to ask for it on Thursday. Whether I get it, is another matter ( due to the blasted breast cancer diagnoses years ago! Chelsea are adamant that utrogestan is best for me, but if it doesn’t control the bleeding, what is the point?? X
-
Still got this blasted wee frequency. Going to do an e consult to gp, but wondering could this be low oestrogen still? Even when I apply my YES moisturiser internally, it stings.
So sick of it all now. 5 weeks and no let up. Vagifem/YES daily.