Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Vicky81 on April 03, 2022, 07:29:00 AM
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So sorry ladies but its me... again.
So I took utrogestan vaginally last night and I'm lay in bed with fear feeling. My anxiety seems worse and vivid dreams again.
I took cerazette ,(mini pills) in 2016 and was fine on it....so I'm not sure if I'm progesterone intolerant or not??
All I know is I can't stay like this forever......I feel like I don't want to get out of bed...and mood is really low again. Yesterday was on the bed crying hard to my partner for over an hour.
Anyone have any help or ideas?
Vicky xxxx
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Sorry you’re feeling so low Vicky. I used to think I was Progesterone intolerant when I started taking Utrogestan & like you I took Cerazette for years. It seems that I’m very sensitive to changing hormones (I’m late peri) & in actual fact it’s high estrogen that makes me extremely anxious & tearful. I dropped down to one pump a day and then increased to 2 so far so good. Sending you hugs xx
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Why don’t you try reducing your gel and see if that helps?
When is your next appointment with your specialist/ GP?
You haven’t been on the HRT or sertraline that long, so you need to give things time to settle.
You are young and on a high dose of O. Too much hormone can be as bad as too little.
Hope things improve soon.
It’s hell, the whole bloody journey!
Xxx
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Hi Vicky81 sorry to hear you’re struggling. Utrogestan is notorious for causing the symptoms you describe, and the only way around that is by taking as little as you need for the minimum time. I see you’re already taking it vaginally, as sometimes that minimises side effects over taking it orally. As Polpringle says too high oestrogen can also cause anxiety (which is why an average dose is always better), but your symptoms sound more depressive and that’s definitely the utrogestan. You’ll know when you stop taking it if symptoms subside.
Hope this helps x
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Can you remind us of your regime, Vicky, exactly when you started it, if you've remained consistent with it and if Setraline was prescribed at the same time as the hormones? What symptoms prompted you to attend Studd? This will help us understand your process clearly so that we know how to support the specifics of your situation. Many thanks!
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Hi Vicky,
Anxiety is a horrible feeling ☹️.. next time you feel it coming on try and accept the feeling rather than fight it. It’s not easy but if you don’t give the feeling any attention it fades away. It takes a lot of practice but it’s the one thing that works for me. Also distraction works.. try doing a word search or something else that requires focus.
Since I have dropped to a lower dose of oestrogen I do feel better. A bit spaced out and dizzy but not so anxious.
I’m sure it will all come together soon, the AD will help lift your mood and getting the hormones balanced should help xx
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Aww you ladies are so lovely thank you.
Sarah- yes I always jump straight up,, get my jogging things on head out and run! I guess its the feeling of not looking forward to anything...especially at weekends when you see people out, having drinks etc... I used to be like that.
Postmeno- ok I started the gels on 23rd Feb. I have remained consistent every night at 4.30pn . And a blob of testim. I started sertraline 30th jan at 50mg then went up to 100mg on 19th March.
My symptoms for studd were crying over nothing and I've never been a crier. .ever! Hair coming out in brush, period flow lasting more than my usual 5 days,, sweaty in bed at night...and most of all severe anxiety! From out the blue...never had anxiety in my life, ever.
Perinopost- thanks so much, yes I heard it could be notorious for some effects. I'm only on 100mg for 10 days each month. So hopefully this will stop once I'm off it again??
NAS- I think you have a point...as my last oestrogen result on 4th March was 1615. I may put 3 gels on later as I guess I don't need 4? Will try it...thank you xx
Polpringle- thanks hun.. as above I think il go to 3 pumps so if that helps any...I will let you know xxx
Sending hugs to all xxx
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Hi Vicky
I had exactly the same experience as you. Terrible anxiety with it. And I took Cerazette (and Cerelle) for years as well with no problem. The only useful info I can give is that the Newson clinic told me I could use a double dose of Cerazette (or Cerelle) as the progesterone element of HRT if I needed to so this might be worth investigating if all else fails. x
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Good logical thinking Post meno!
I think Vicky, you need to break down your journey from the beginning, so we can understand what’s been going on for you.
I echo Sarah’s thoughts on dealing with anxiety. The more you fight, the worse it becomes. Try to think of anxiety as a child, trying to seek attention. The more you give it, the more draining on you and that more the child ( anxiety) demands. Have you read the DARE book or downloaded the app? It’s a very good tool to have in your box.
Remember I told you about my driving anxiety? Well it hasn’t gone away completely, but I persevere every day. I have to drive my car, else we are stuck essentially. I still get the funny tummy and tight chest when going above 50 mph ( yes 50!) But you have to distract yourself, else anxiety wins.
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P.s Vicky, if you want the DARE book I'm happy to send it to you. Or the app is great x
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To me, only as a passive observer, this is entirely the wrong regime for you, completely the wrong course of action. Reading all your posts, I have become increasingly concerned for you. You should not, in my opinion, have been given testosterone at the same time as oestrogen. It's not good practice as far as I understand and will be compounding not relieving the anxiety along with everything else. This is maybe not what you wanted to hear, but it's been far too much thrown at you for a first assessment and prescription. Your symptoms sound much more anxiety and anxiety medication-related. I'm sorry if this gives you further cause for concern, but you're early enough days in, not much over a month, to simplify the regime totally and get a second opinion somewhere else. I feel it's absolutely essential you do this now, Vicky. I hope this "tough love" brings the change you need for the better. Good luck! 🤞
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I've read all your posts Vicky and I agree with Postmeno3.
I think we chatted on pm when you were just starting out in Jan. I'm still got seeing resolution with my hormones, but one things for sure, I'm started very slowly... When I take a bigger hit (as I have in my own trials) - geez, I know about it!!
In Peri we are suffering due to dropping hormones and volatility.
Estrogen is a very powerful hormone. I believe the Studd regime at your age, is to give you an incredibly high dose of estrogen, to suppress your own cycle - was this mentioned? Whilst it hasn't worked out for me, the NHS meno clinic I saw suggested the combined pill... To do this very thing. Has that been suggested? Have you previously tried it?
I'm certainly no expert - but your estrogen level is very high. Mine is about 325 naturally. Which i'm told is good for my age. Because I feel the volatility of my own estrogen - adding more in makes me feel awful. Hence why I think they are trying to suppress your own cycle with the incredibly high dose.
I agree - you should seek a second opinion. Xx
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Hi Vicky
I agree with Postmeno3 and CrispyChick.
I don’t think this regime will work for you. You’re estrogen levels are very high, hence the anxiety and now with the added progesterone you’re flipping into depression.
Get a second opinion if you can.
You’ll get there so take heart x
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Thank you all.
Postmeno3- thank so much fot taking the time out to read my posts. I initially started on 3 pumps as he said for me to do,, but then I asked could I try 4 and they agreed. This was around a week later. I've had no side effects from the gel itself,, just feel more anxiety and tearful the last few days. I will indeed take your advice on board and give me something to think about.
NAS- I have just ordered the dare book and it came few days ago! I will start to read it today ....thank you! Xx
Dawn- I will ask about cerazette tomorrow once clinic opens. Could I ask....do you take the oestrogel with the cerazette? Or just cerazette alone?, xx
Crispychick- no the combined pill want mentioned at all. Again I will ask then more questions regarding my regime. I have asked this before and they say "carry on with the 4 pumps and will see where you are at in your 3 month review- may"
They also told me that testim doesn't cause anxiety....so???,
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Thanks marchlove- I will do this ....given me food 4 thought xxx
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Just to add....I've booked another blood test tomorrow with medichecks....it measures oestrogen,, fsh, LH....and I few other things that I can't remember! It was cheaper thsn going all the way to srudd clinic ....just to see a month later where I'm at xx
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Glad you have the book.
Testim/testogel etc, can contribute to anxiety if your oestrogen and progesterone aren't in synch.
The usual starting dose is low, so 2 pumps of gel in your case. I wouldnt have added in an additional pump after only a week.
These specialists, they all have their own thoughts around what women need hormone wise. Newson is a great advocate of gel increases when symptoms dont subside. My own MS, Paula Briggs, is lowest dose first and dont overload the body all at once.
Anyway, I would either seek a second opinion, OR reset with 2 pumps.
X ☺
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Hi NAS
Yes I'm going to do 3 pumps from tonight. Made my mind up . See how that goes.
Marchlove- just to say thank you for the idea of cortisol test. I did it with medichecks and its been posted off, so maybe tomorrow il gave the results?, will let you know xxx
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Have also taken clonazepam 0.5 as soon as pulled back the bed cover which seems to have taken the edge off xxx
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Vicky, please try to focus on what is consuming you, the anxiety. Who prescribed Setraline? (I take it you were told not to do things like alcohol? Sometimes this very important factor is missed in the process!) Where is your gp in all this? If I were you, I would only change ONE THING just now, the oestrogen dosage. Try just to settle for that rather than jumping at every suggestion that comes along because if you do that, you will have no idea what's helping you. I feel this is very important for where you seem to be at. We all want to support, even "fix" you, but you really can invest in trusting that by SIMPLIFYING everything right down and giving time and patience to only that is more likely to steady things and then you can act from a calmer and more strategic place. Less is more!
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Hi postmeno you sound so lovely...thank you xx
So, I work in Broadmoor hospital and very lucky to have psychologists and psychiatrists as my friends. They have pointed me down the oath if being peri as I never would gave guessed. Also, as citalopram was my 4th AD, I was advised to switch to sertaline as is best 4 anxiety.
GP....huh! Well what a journey that has been! Not one of them picked up on peri....kept throwing diazepam and AD at me....but my anger was out if control....my character changed dramatically even towards my parents. I fact my mum fell out with me!
I don't really deal with the GP that much just the clinic (studd). The only time I now call the GP is if I want to change or up my dose of AD. Or for anything else really. I've got guidance and expertise in Broadmoor which I'm happy and lucky to have xxxx
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Plus I haven't drank since last August....simply can't face it. I'm very sensible with things like that....especially anything around anxiety. I dobt drink coffee anymore either x
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Who suggested Studd to you, Vicky?
Your gp is obliged to monitor things as they ultimately are responsible for and accountable to what is prescribed for you. I don't think it's wise to bypass them. If the one you saw feels like they're not doing this adequately, ask the practice manager for someone else.
I respect that you feel you have trust in your friends and colleagues at Broadmoor, but their backgrounds may not be as specific to menopause and trained in that field?
I have to stop here for today, but I'm sure others will be along.
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Hi Vicky
I was told that I could use Cerazette on its own. A double dose though to get the right amount. Here is a link to the relevant info. You’ll find the desogestol info in the small print in the Norithesterone section! x
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356586797_British_Menopause_Society_tools_for_clinicians_Progestogens_and_endometrial_protection/fulltext/61a2650c07be5f31b7bb34a2/British-Menopause-Society-tools-for-clinicians-Progestogens-and-endometrial-protection.pdf?origin=publication_detail
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Thanks postmeno. It was in here that I saw people saying about his clinic....so went fir that.
Speak soon xxx
Dawn thank alit fir the info....I'm going to call clinic tomorrow to speak to a Dr xxx
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At least if the Cerazette works for you it’s one less thing to worry about. x
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Yes Dawn I will let you know hun . So you reckon you felt OK on the double cerazette?, any side effects? Pkus do you take oestrogel aswell? Zx
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Hello again Vicky81
I am sorry that you are still struggling, I know exactly how you feel. Also apologies for missing your PM but to answer your question, yes I take Venlafaxine but I am concerned that it is no longer effective (if it ever was, as I started it the same time I started HRT). I am actually considering asking for a change of AD so if I were you I would stick with the Sertraline.
I am a patient at Newson Health which is a private clinic and they have the email of my GP surgery and send an update after every consultation. I am also sent a copy. I imagine that Prof Studd's clinic has the same arrangement so your GP should be informed of your treatment. If you are not sure ask the clinic tomorrow when you call.
I completely get how awful this all is and how confusing when the symptoms of low oestrogen that prompted you to contact the clinic are now appearing even though your Oestrogen is sky high. This paradox is what makes me think that the 'Less is More' option may be worth pursuing. I have recently reduced my gel dose to see if that helps with the emotional symptoms that have been plaguing me. Watch this space lol.
I hope you get some answers from your clinic and your blood tests, please keep us informed so that we can help you further and perhaps learn from you as well.
Wishing you well and sending hugs.
K.
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Hi Vicky
I had been taking a double dose for many years to keep severe pms at bay. In later years I wasn’t sure if it was giving me migraines - but I had a long history of migraines anyway. My understanding is that you don’t need to take Utrogestan with it, as long as you are taking the double dose. x
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Hi Kathleen- thank you for a lovely message. Yes its just awful isn't it?
When I tried venlafaxine i only last 2 days ....it took my head off!
Maybe try sertaline hun? I'm going to stick with mine ...definitely.
Yes I agree....I have been so confused about my sky high reading! Thats why I'm getting another bloody test done through medichecks tomorrow...see where I'm at a month later.
I'm going to go to 3 pumps from tonight.
Promise to let you know how I get on....same with you xxx
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Dawn- oh sorry I meant are you taking oestrogel along side cerazette? Xxx
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No, I’m currently using Everol patches at a high dose but am having a nightmare with hrt generally so am reducing it and about to switch to Femoston to see if I can tolerate the progesterone in it; before I go back to Cerelle. Because of the possible migraines situation I’ll only go back to Cerelle when I’ve tried Femoston. x
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Oh ok ....Best of luck xxx