Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: IluvBrum on March 28, 2022, 10:46:14 AM
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I started Oestrogel and Utrogestan 6 weeks ago now to alleviate night sweats and disrupted sleep. Apart from these issues, I am very well during the day. I use 2 pumps of gel and cyclical Utrogestan. I have tried various ways of using the gel. At day, at night, split dose day and night, on the arms on the thighs, all various combinations! But my symptons are still there and I cannot say there is much of a difference, maybe slight but not significant. Eg. Instead of waking up multiple times a night, maybe waking up just once or twice. Sometimes in a sweat, sometimes not.
I had high hopes for this treatment especially after reading all the positive comments about this wonderful gel. Also read that these symptons are the first to go when starting this treatment, usually 2 weeks. However, this hasn't happened for me and I am wondering whether I should continue. It would certainly be one less patient to prescribe to bearing in mind the difficulties in obtaining the gel.
I have also read that it can take up to 3 months to get the full effects so I am not sure what to do.
My overall health is very good and I rarely consult GPs and take medication because I rarely get sick. I cannot remember the last time I took a paracetamol let alone an antibiotic or a prescription for any other sort of medication.
Anyone else out there in a similar situation where Oestrogel is not having much of an effect on night sweats and sleep? How long did it take for these symptons to go?
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My insomnia took 3 months but the flushes should have gone by now. I'd see you gp. I think you need an increase but your gp may be unwilling to prescribe more until the 3 months are up. It might be that you just need more or it might be you're one of the few people who doesn't absorb well transdermally so aren't getting the dose you should have. As there has been an improvement I would stick with it and try to get the dose right.
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Hi any slight improvement is good. The effects of hrt build up over time and it is a waiting game. It takes about 3 months to start feeling the full effects and it continues to get better. With me it was a slow realisation that things were getting better.
As Sheila says, insomnia takes a long time to go. It was the last thing for me. You may need a higher dose . Don’t give up xxx
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Hi sorry to hear you’re not getting relief from all your symptoms. I agree with the other ladies - stick with it.
I’d say try using it on one place only like your upper arms, for an extended period of time.
Maybe also keep a diary note of how you slept, what you ate, etc It’s a faff sometimes to remember (especially when you haven’t had good sleep!) but it helps build up a picture for you and your gp. Also you may see a pattern emerging where some nights are better than others and maybe see if you did anything different on those days?
The sleep thing is really tough I hear you on that. Something I took for granted for so many years - just messes you up when you don’t get it.
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Thank you for all your replies...it is encouraging :)
I think I will stick with it and give it the full 3 months. However, it's just a mystery to me why the gel hasn't had a significant effect. I would understand it more if I had many other debilitating symptons why it would take more time to work. But for crying out loud, I'm just suffering with the sweats which wake me up several times a night.
I dont know if this is relevant but I am only petite sized and can fit into teen aged clothes. I would have thought based on this, the usual 2 pumps would have done the trick. For example, a horse is going to need more food to function than a small dog.
Oh well, I guess I'll just have to keep calm and carry on as they say.
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I thought I’d need less too as I’ve got a low BMI but I’ve needed to increase along the way.
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Hia,
Sorry to hear of your suffering, it is a really awful cycle to be stuck in and I feel your pain as had it in the extreme before starting the gel.
I would wake more than a dozen times a night bcz of hot flushes. But for me I was lucky and the night sweats plus insomnia went within a day of starting the Oestrogel. I only ever slip back into the nightmare cycle if my estrogen level drops, and then I know i need to get it sorted asap.
I hope you get some good sleep soon as it is vital, and affects every part of the day and every part of you.
TD
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I don't think it works like that. In fact the thinner you are the more oestrogel you need as you don't have much visceral fat in which oestrogen is stored. Equally if you don't drink much alcohol you need more than those who drink regularly.
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Repeating the advice to stick to one spot. My practitioner was adamant to use the same location consistently (like when I was using one pump only, she insists the same arm, don’t alternate arms). Don’t worry about splitting the dose am & pm when it is just two pumps. Find a location and time that works and just keep doing that.
Another thing to consider is your bath products…are you using a shower gel that leaves a moisturizing deposit that might interfere with absorption?
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Can I I ask IluvBrum have you had Covid recently?
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Hi IluvBrum, some women think the newer version of Oestrogel is a little weaker (it's the one with a green square at the bottom of the front sticker)
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Hi.
Don't think I can really help you but I am exactly the same as you. I only went on hrt because of the awful night sweats!!!.
I've been on it for a year now and also coincidentally I'm only petite🤣 I've upped my dose to 5 pumps of Oestradiol and felt so Ill and still night sweats 🙈I'm now back down to 2 pumps and testosterone . Still no better!!!
It's a nightmare but just wanted to say you're not the only one still suffering. I just wanted a quick fix but not happening for me.
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Hi
I am 5 weeks in to 4 pumps of Oestrogel and Testim. I am still having night sweats too. Not sure what to do either!?
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.......Just to add when i had my blood test on 4th March, my Oestrogen was 1615. I rang the clinic yesterday to ask about this and (night sweats) - Just for reference i am under Dr Studd's clinic (the london PMS and menopause centre)
The lady told me not to worry....and that the level shows i am absorbing. Not sure how true this is...but....
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I think you need to give it the full three months to be sure HOWEVER yes sorry in my experience the hot flushes etc were the first thing to calm down (within a week or two). I am on 50mg patch so equivalent to your doseage.
In fact since being on the patch my night sweats and hot flushes have got much worse recently and really ramped up in the last month. It’s now six months since I started. I imagine I am now in need of more oestrogen to control them.
The doctor will want you to do the full three months I expect, to give it a fair chance, but after that I would be looking for a higher dose oestrogen ie add a pump of gel to see if that improves things.
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Sorry should add that although the flushes did reduce quickly at first, the sleep quality itself did take the three months to settle fully, as others have said. Keep going with it!
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Thank you all for the replies.
It appears that for most people, they get relief from the hot sweats very quickly. But for me, this is not happening 6 weeks in. I had another awful night waking up multiple times in a sweat. I can sleep ok, it’s just the sweating wakes me up. I return to sleep but will wake up hour an half later and this is repeated throughout the night.
I am on my period and therefore on a break from the Utrogestan. Thinking about it, when I am on this the sleep is a little better with only one or two sweat disturbances. They say it helps you sleep but I should not have to rely on this. Anyway, I am going to log my symptons on the balance app I have heard about and see what this shows up.
I didn’t think having low visceral fat would make a difference because I thought that oestrogen could not be stored? Isn’t this the reason why we are topping up our hormones on a daily basis? As for not drinking much alcohol, I have not heard that before…..
Yes, I am applying 2 pumps to the thighs, roughly the same time every night. Hmmmm, yes I did wonder about the shower products and I do use body creams most days whether this may have an impact on absorption. But I use these in the daytime and the Oestrogel at night, many hours later. On the days I have not used a body cream it has still not made a difference.
No, not had covid. Not been ill at all with anything!
I am glad there are one or two others out there like me. The whole thing is doing my head in though. I am due to consult the GP in a couple of weeks and it could be patches if there is no improvement. And if these don’t work then I don’t know what. I guess I’ll just have to put up with it. I am very lucky in comparison to many ladies out there, I am getting off lightly. It’s only sweating for crying out loud. I have my perspective.
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I believe that limited amounts of oestrogen is manufactured in some types of fat cell. So when your ovaries pack up, you go down to a very much reduced baseline, but not actually zero oestrogen.
Your night sweats sound dreadful. No way should you put up with it! Keep trying!
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Update!
I'm into the second month of Estradot 50 patches and still not much improvement to my sweating. I'm getting fed up now. I'm doing almost everything you are supposed to do to avoid these sweats. Eg. alcohol, caffeine, spicy food, light clothing and bedding etc.
The gel has had no effect and now the patches. I even used both initially because I had some gel left over when I started the patches. Nothing. What next? Aaaaaaahhhhhh >:(
I dont know whether to stop now or keep going. Seems a bit pointless when this is only sympton. Part of me feels a bit guilty that I'm whinging because I am getting off very lightly in comparison to many others.
It seems a little excessive to pay out for private consultation perhaps?
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Estradot 50 is still only a medium dose. You are likely going to need more as you still aren't getting relief. Try going to 75 for a while and then if still no joy up to 100. Just take it slow and steady. Think I said before if you are petite and have little fat you probs need more. Oestrogel is stored in fat cells its why menopausal women often put weight on round their middle, it's the bodies way of trying to store some oestrogen.
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I agree, I think you need a higher dose.
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An interesting point about the fat cells. I would be interested to hear back from Clareabelle1 who is in a similar situation to me and perhaps others with similar figures.
I am due to put in another request so I shall ask for 75 and see what happens. I got the impression from the doctor that they were reluctant to increase the dose when I was using the gel. I did try it however out of frustration and on occasions used 3 and 4 pumps and still nothing changed. Only for a few days mind.
I do prefer the patches rather than the gel because of ease of use. I suppose you can only try.....its a long old haul isn't it. ;D
Thanks for your replies.
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I was put on lenzetto from the gel and it has been awful. I have now been moved onto patches. Like you all symptoms pretty much sorted apart from night sweats once or twice a night. Gp will also be looking at trying me with testosterone after I have my bloods done.
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3 or 4 days isn't long enough to tell. Flushes usually take 1-2 weeks, my insomnia and anxiety too 3 months. Hope the 75 works.
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I agree you probably need an increase. My original instructions from my Newson Health dr was to start with 25 for 2 weeks, then increase to 50 for 4-6 weeks, increasing to 75 if needed and then after 4-6 weeks to 100. For me, that was a bit too speedy. I think I am sensitive to estrogen changes and should have stayed at 50 for 12 weeks before increasing. I did wait till 7 weeks.
Which is all to say, my doctor fully expected me to need 75-100. I am at 62.5 (don't ask) and if my symptoms go and my bloods are okay, I'll be staying there because I'm a bit afraid to go to 75 again after my heart palpitations but 50 was a bit low for me - 62.5 would be a 50 patch and then half a 25 each time ;D
I think some women can accelerate through the increases and others need very slow and gradual increases and I've learnt I'm one of those...