Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => This 'n' That => Topic started by: getting_old on March 09, 2022, 06:55:24 PM
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CLKD mentioned electric vehicles and I thought they deserved their own thread.
With the price of petrol going through the roof a number of people are saying we should be considering electric vehicles. I'll say up front that I'm not a fan. I'm worried about how batteries will be disposed of in the future and the environmental impact.
I don't like the limited range and I don't want to stand around for 30+ mins whilst charging instead of a 2 minute trip to the petrol pumps. Also if it takes 30+ mins to charge and there are a limited supply of chargers I could be waiting much longer if they're all occupied.
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What we aren't told is how the Rare Earth minerals that are required for the batteries are sourced.
They take a lot of mining in countries that we are often at logger heads with. China is the biggest producer and they have a) a bad human rights record and b) they don't care about how polluting their mining activities are. RE were sourced in the US but due to pollution as well as cost mining was brought to a stop.
Having heard that during the storms in Feb., 2 people found in their home with hyperthermia - which didn't make the national Press - relying on electricity isn't going to work. When those turbines stop turning due to it being too windy ........... we aren't told either how much of the UK's electricity is sourced from abroad, including nuclear and hydro-electricity that we need to draw upon daily. Nor at what cost.
Vehicles take energy to design: the designers need to be paid and how do they get to work? They take energy to product: how do those workers reach their factories? 24/7 and sourcing their parts from across the World, including Ukraine. Mini production has ceased in the UK due to a lack of parts. There's a lack of other parts which operate the various computers which 'drive' our vehicles. All that the public rarely think about.
Nope. Not for me. They take too long to charge; they don't travel as far as promised because they are designed to run from A-B without taking into account stopping for accidents; stopping for comfort breaks; that all charge points may well be in use at Motorways etc.. Plus charging is drawing on electricity ....... which we buy from elsewhere. Catch22?
Our local car park has 6 places for charging, however the spaces can be used by either electric or other vehicles ::). I would be pretty peed off if I went to charge and there wasn't a space !
Horse and cart anyone? ;-)
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I believe the car manufacturers are recycling the batteries.
I know someone who has an electric car. They get 290 miles in a charge. It costs £10 to charge at home. Free at Tesco.
Wouldn’t suit anyone who travels the country for a job but it seems okay for standard work commute and shopping etc.
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I believe the car manufacturers are recycling the batteries.
I know someone who has an electric car. They get 290 miles in a charge. It costs £10 to charge at home. Free at Tesco.
Wouldn’t suit anyone who travels the country for a job but it seems okay for standard work commute and shopping etc.
I have read about manufacturers recycling batteries. As CLKD says the batteries require minerals that may not be available in the quantities required so wondering what impct that will have?
Certainly the charging cost is good but will electricty prices rising and the number of electric vehicles increasing I can see places starting to charge for charging, and that cost increasing too.
It feels like we've gone from using one sparse resource to another, instead of finding a solution which is totally environmentally friendly.
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I think the 290 per charge is mainly for the Tesla which is not affordable for many.
Also like most batteries I think they get less efficient with age meaning 2nd hand cars will not be worth buying and so not eco friendly.
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Rare Earth is what is says: rare. Mining anything makes a huge mess which most of the public don't see/consider/worry about. What happens when the electric system goes down as it did across the UK earlier this year :'(
Why should I be bullied into buying something that I don't want. We live in a free country, we should have freedom of choice. We can forget about global warming after what is happening with Russia, also global warming is cyclical. There wasn't anyone to record it last time ::)
The tyres will still be produced as will the car body, chassis, nuts/bolts, seating, steering wheels ...........
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We have an electric car. It is great. A Hyundai kona. In the winter we can do 250 miles on a full charge. In the summer we can do 300 miles on a full charge. In the summer the warmer weather makes the battery go further.
its really not an issue charging. We charge at home and on a long journey we just plan where we are going to stop and have a cup of tea. It is good to get a break on a long journey. Most people use their car for short journeys most of the time.
I think with some of the Tesla's you can get 400 miles out of a full charge. The costs will come down as the market expands. There will be more charging points as the market expands too.
Someone I know had a electric car ( a Nissan leaf) which was still going strong after 11 years and only had to be scrapped as someone went into her. Otherwise she would still be driving it. Its battery was fine.
If only half of all cars globally were electric it would make a huge difference to the worlds carbon footprint. So yes they use up resources in their manufacture but so do all cars.
Also they dont emit any pollution. So when I am waiting at a traffic light or a junction it is good to know that any person walking on the pavement isnt breathing in poisonous emissions from my car.
This is not the place to go into details about renewable sources of energy except to say technology has come on a long way and storage for solar and wind is now achievable.
At the end of the day we have to do something or the world will be inhabitable. I worry about my children's and all childrens future and what world they will inherit.
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That's the problem. The cars don't emit pollution :: but the process of making all of it does. What happened to the battery from your friend's vehicle :-\. There aren't any reycling plants for these yet as rare earth materials have to be disposed of with care. Drivers are being taken in by the final result rather than looking at the devastation that mining causes ........ what are seats made of these days, steering wheel covers etc.?
Mining causes waste. What ever the material that is being dragged from the ground. That waste remains on top of the ground 4 years, think of the Mines in Wales. Slag tips waiting to fall .......... :-\
Wind farms have to be switched off in high winds. Solar farms originally had Planning Permission for 20 years when they were to be demolished, those years have now got as far as 30. But I don't know how much 'local' electricity from those panels get to my street. It doesn't tell me on the Invoice ::)
With what is happening across Europe, Syria, parts of Northern Africa I think we can forget about global warming ???.
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Well your argument only stands if no one ever buys another new car ever again CLKD. If anyone buys a new petrol car resources are needed for that too- not just new electric cars! Last time I looked petrol and diesel vehicles are still being manufactured.
My friends car battery was sent to be recycled.Electric car batteries are highly recyclable.
I find it extraordinary that you want to 'forget' about global warming!
But I know it is an inconvenient truth for some people.' Dont look up'
Please provide evidence that global warming is cyclical- ? (Are you a climate scientist?)
The recent news suggests to many that we need to reduce our dependency on oil and gas. We should be transitioning away. There is plenty of information out there that the future of the earth and whether it is habitable depends on what we do in the next few years. You make me feel there is no hope.
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I don't think that the World can go carbon neutral :-\. We all breath in/out and fart. We eat, drink, dispose of waste in many ways. What ever heat source humans use, it will cause environmental problems, long or short term. Everything we do has a knock on effect. It has been realised for years++. ( Of course, as a complete meander, nappies are 1 of the worst items to use!
(Of course, if the EU had insisted on the Laws that were passed in the 1990s that all new properties had to have solar panels and facilities to use grey water for car washing ........ sadly copies of those Laws are long ago lost in my old computer. [Which was recycled. Due to the amount of gold etc. in the boards ;-) ] )
Global warming is cyclical ........ archaeology shows evidence as do geological studies. *I* don't need to produce evidence, it's out there on the WWB written by Scientists, Geologists etc.. A friend in the 1970s was a chemical-geologist;a family member now is working as an archeologist.
Global warming is being aggravated by what is happening across Europe, as well as by the various mining companies after Rare Earths without which electric vehicles cannot work. So many people seem 2B OK with parts of our Planet being decimated to please a few who think that electric cars are the 'way to go'? The worry ought to be that the governments of the day don't pass on the truth to the public? After all, we were told that diesel vehicles were OK :-\ because the governments of the day believed the science at the time. No one thought that companies would produce false evidence?
Also these Rare Earths need to be transported .......... as well as machinery to bring them from the ground which requires new roads to be built = destroying the environemnt to get to those mines, properties for the workers to be erected ........ it might look 'green' on paper but traced back the reality suggests otherwise.
Apart from my diesel camper van we have never bought a new vehicle. One was last seen being used as a chicken coop :'(, on a back road; on a another narrower road; in a farm yard. I wish to this day that I had gone and got it ;D as it had been in the family for years. :-\.
When my Dad dismantled the Austin7 in 1958, he used the windows as cloches in the garden, as well as re-purposing most of the body work. The chassis and engine were put into oil and wrapped in rags - hopefully it will be rebuilt by the end of this year :-* 8) (note to self, speak to the engineer)
This isn't an argument. This is about peoples' opinions as to which way to go. As I stated, I don't want to be told what to do. My ancestors fought to give us choice.
People are buying new cars because they are a status symbol - look at those £KM of vehicles that disappeared into the ocean recently: all top of the range Lambos., Mercs., BMs.
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I had a thunk I did ::). there is already motorbike and car e-racing. Sadly B4 the 1st season began the motorbikes were lost due to the batteries flying afire so the riders lost 8 months whilst the next were built. However. They travel around the World, even if by sea the drivers/mechanics fly to the next race track ::)
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It feels like we've gone from using one sparse resource to another, instead of finding a solution which is totally environmentally friendly.
We already have an environmentally friendly solution, they're called legs :)
Could you put solar panels on the roof of an electric car to charge the batteries?
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Thanks Sheila. I've just checked and it's going to take me 2 days and 3 hours to walk to North Devon ;D
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I'm due in Devon around September, I'll pick you up ;D
We can't go carbon neutral anywhere in the World whilst we eat, breath and work. We could help by making sensible choices; I already buy as locally as possible: farm shops and supermarkets, butchers: and try not to do one job when out and about, but to compile a list - i.e. shopping, books to charity shop, antique fair on a Friday in the same town.
Humans should never decimate one part of the Planet because something has been deemed wrong to use in another.
We've bg***d up the peat bogs in some places; we've dug coal/iron/tin from the Moors; we've used electricity to an advantage which has been provided by coal powered stations .......... the UK refuses to build desalination plants but we aren't short of water, we are surrounded by the stuff ::).
I do lots of recycling and composting so 'do my bit' at home. We travel together: 1 petrol, 1 diesal vehicle. I don't trust the 'electric vehicle' brigade. I'm scared of horses :o .....
It amazes me that people across the World queries the various vaccinations for Covid but will hope into an electric vehicle without researching it from start to finish ::)
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Hi CLKD
No one is 'bullying' you into buying anything ( in this case an electric vehicle) you don't want.
Where I live EV are not status symbols. They are few and far between. I have never heard of this anywhere. The hair and nail brigade round here still prefer their brand new range rovers unfortunately.
It is a shame you cant provide a link for me to any evidence that Climate change is cyclical. With all due respect the 1970's was a long time ago.
But regarding this point of yours:-
''The Earth has been through a lot in the last 4.5 billion years. And yes, high levels of carbon dioxide have been released naturally in the Earth’s history. Scientists have attributed mass extinctions to atmospheric carbon dioxide from 580 million years ago, long before humans were around to burn ridiculous amounts of fossil fuels.
What we’re experiencing with climate change today, however, is far different than any warming or cooling humanity has seen — in rate and in scale. Our present climate change is occurring 20 to 50 times faster than the most rapid climate change events in Earth’s history.
That some of the world’s mass extinctions have been tied to CO2 shouldn’t be a relief, though; it should be a wakeup call. Unlike in the past, we are the ones doing the damage (through the out-of-control burning of fossil fuels), not the Earth. We are the ones who could become extinct.
The good news is it’s entirely within our control to phase out fossil fuels and avoid the most devastating impacts of unchecked climate change. We don’t have to be dinosaurs, and we definitely should stop burning them ''. ( Earthday)
My close relatives also fought for freedom for their children and grandchildren. But with freedom comes responsibility. Responsibility towards others and I believe a responsibility towards the natural world. Can anyone really argue that we should be free to destroy our world? Surely we should all be trying to avoid the worst effects of runaway climate change ? If not for us then for our children.
It sounds like you are already doing quite a lot ( thank you) with recycling, not buying a new car, composting etc. Some of us who have to travel with work (and have poor public transport links) or to see elderly relatives etc are doing our bit by using an electric vehicle. Anything any of us can do in our own lives to try and reduce our carbon footprint should be rewarded not criticised.
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UK governments are bullying the public into buying electric vehicles without being honest about the whole process.
This isn't about arguments. This is about how we view electric vehicles. 4.5 billion is 'a long time ago' when no one was around to monitor the natural progression of the Earth.
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'Bullying' ? a bit strong. I have had the unfortunate experience of being bullied in my life and I think this is an inappropriate use of the word.
Encouraging/persuading people to buy an EV ( or hybrid) rather than a petrol or diesel vehicle IF they are already planning ( or their old car packed up like ours did) on buying a new vehicle is not bullying.
Moving to electric from petrol and diesel is a key way to reduce emissions that are harmful to the environment. It is so much better for our health too especially for people who live near roads.
I am sorry that you are unable to accept the overwhelming ( towering) evidence for human beings effect on climate change . I think you are out of step with the majority of the population ( 72%) who believe we are the cause.
I also see you have still not been able to provide or link to any evidence which clarifies your position.
I am done here.
DONT LOOK UP
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:-\ :-\ you remind me of a previous member who pushed and pushed ........ as well as twisting my comments !
I am sorry that you are unable to accept the overwhelming ( towering) evidence for human beings effect on climate change .
. That's your reaction to my comments. It happens not to be true. But you won't be around, apparently to copy and paste where you think that statement applies to me.
Also I am not responsible for any one's reactions to my comments.
This thread isn't about proving anything - but yeah or nay to electric vehicles.
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I think it’s the case that they are stopping making new petrol/diesel cars. You will still be able to buy 2nd hand ones. It’s no different than you can no longer buy black and white tv’s, twin tub washing machines etc.
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I loved our Twin Tub ;D - I could recycle the rinse water into a bucket to tip onto the flower beds therefore getting exercise as well as not wasting water :ange: However, if the pumps go dry ? Looks like I need to find my bicycle pump.
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I think it’s the case that they are stopping making new petrol/diesel cars. You will still be able to buy 2nd hand ones. It’s no different than you can no longer buy black and white tv’s, twin tub washing machines etc.
I think they are still making new petrol / diesel cars, but maybe in lower numbers, and offering hybrids and electric vehicles alongside so people have more choice.
I do question how green the process of generating electricity is at times. Obviously wind and solar power is green but other methods? And if we all get electric vehicles wil the electric companies be able to meet the demand?
I would like to move away from an oil powered car, but I'm not keen on the electric option. I'd prefer to see other "fuels" that can be manufactured without impacting the environment. Years ago I remember reading reports about people using cooking oils to power cars and wonder if there's an option there? I also remember a film about someone who created an alternative fule and was "shut down" by the oil companies. Obviously fiction, but it makes you wonder how much innovation is being stamped out by those with a vested interest in maintaining a dependence on fossil fuels ???
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I often see vans "We are collecting oil for the vehicle industry" on the sides of tankers as well as 'we are powered by cooking oil'. So it is possible. However, the vans 'go out to collect' the oil from the food industry ::). better than throwing it I suppose
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DH has been following the ifs/buts regarding EVs. Interesting advertising .......... quoting the mileage achieved but it's for the higher cost vehicles, not as on the advert to cover all vehicles :-\. The mileage was longer for the dearest vehicles but the cheaper ones have to be charged twice in the same journey. We've been here B4, with diesel >:(.
He was watching a video about the improvements of these ideas. He hasn't said much ........
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I think it’s the case that they are stopping making new petrol/diesel cars. You will still be able to buy 2nd hand ones. It’s no different than you can no longer buy black and white tv’s, twin tub washing machines etc.
I think they are still making new petrol / diesel cars, but maybe in lower numbers, and offering hybrids and electric vehicles alongside so people have more choice.
The production of new diesel and petrol cars will be banned from 2030 but certain hybrid models will continue to be made until 2035.
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I think it’s the case that they are stopping making new petrol/diesel cars. You will still be able to buy 2nd hand ones. It’s no different than you can no longer buy black and white tv’s, twin tub washing machines etc.
I think they are still making new petrol / diesel cars, but maybe in lower numbers, and offering hybrids and electric vehicles alongside so people have more choice.
The production of new diesel and petrol cars will be banned from 2030 but certain hybrid models will continue to be made until 2035.
It'll be interesting to see what happens for those people who can't afford to buy a new car, or people who have classic cars. Will petrol stations still be around and what about petrol prices?
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It's bullying. Electric vehicles are not green ............. but the UK Government seems to ignore the evidence from China about polluting ways of mining the Rare Earth Minerals required for the batteries >:( A bit NIMBY.
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Who knows what’s best. Will need to get rid of our diesel car at some point.
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It's difficult, what annoys me is how the public are cointually being misled on buying vehicles. Who knew that results were being skewed regarding emission reports on diesels? so we were led into buying one to get petrol off the road. Then we were 'told' :-\ - I do wonder if this was to 'encourage' the public to buy electric :-\. Cynic? Moi?
There isn't enough reserarch or genuine testing on electric vehicles yet, most press reports are on hi-end cars ........ 1 has to really read between the lines on all the reports to get anywhere near the truth! DH has spent hours reading different reports, it also depends who is funding the report >:(
I may well find a field for a donkey and cart, I'll need plenty of practice ::)
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DH has read this morning about a driver travelling from S Wales to Neffyn - who planned his charging points carefully. However! worth a LookC!
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I don't mind if people want to have electric cars but just don't push me to have one. Many moons ago we were all told to go diesel but now? Yep,oops,we were wrong to tell you that,our mistake,sorry and that's what will happen with electric,the dismantling and disposing of them will become an issue.We will always have petrol and diesel as lorries must run on them,imagine a lorry driver hanging around for half an hour charging his lorry?! Norway now have in plan,places where,instead of charging,they take your battery out and give you an already charged one,saves the waiting,good idea but how many of these places would we need?
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Good idea on the surface jaypo. Again there are likely to be queues. Some parts of the batteries may be recyclable .........
As an aside: we are being bullied into going green, however: last night we were 40 mins longer getting home because the A43 is closed from J15A - but no diversion signs :bang: :bang: :bang: - we took a diversion across country again, no diversion signs so we ended up going round in circles! Now forgive me for being picky but ......... >:(
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As an aside: we are being bullied into going green, however: last night we were 40 mins longer getting home because the A43 is closed from J15A - but no diversion signs :bang: :bang: :bang: - we took a diversion across country again, no diversion signs so we ended up going round in circles! Now forgive me for being picky but ......... >:(
That's where Google maps is invaluable to me :)
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I'm not even sure how I managed before,without sat nav ;D
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I'm with you, Jaypo. Sat nav has got me out of some sticky situations in the past ;D
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Ours had us going round in circles on Thursday, telling us that the roundabout was closed, then diverting us back to it >:(
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Have you had it updated clkd? On new roads,my sat nav has me floating in the sky ;D
Oh songbird,me too,how I managed with a map I'll never know ;D
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It obviously didn't have the Diversions keyed in >:(. Others have complained this morning ........ it is up to Highways to make sure that diversions are correctly in place.
The other day 'Sandra' - the SatNav - gave 3 big gulps as she tried to tell us which way to go ;D
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My lovely 82 year old mum came out with a cracker when we were travelling to Blackpool and the sat nav was in full use. Mum said…..
“Songbird (because that’s my real name ;D)……when does that lady take a break??”
Bless her, she thought it was some unfortunate soul sitting in a call centre, guiding us to our caravan in Blackpool :o - honestly, I thought I was going to have a toilet’ing incident ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D Omg songbird (beautiful name btw ;D ) that had me in stitches
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I swear it's true Jaypo ;D.. She should be on the stage ;) .....
Thanks re my name - I used to sing in a band you see ::) - first up at karaoke on cruises nowadays :D
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I'll be looking out for you on my next cruise you'll be the one wailing? Sorry,singing? ;D
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Songbird. A beautiful song by Eva Cassidy. 🥰
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;D Jaypo. Going to Norwegian Fjords in fortnight. Can't wait :ola:
The Eva Cassidy song is lovely, Jill- written by Fleetwood Mac's Christine McVie - beautiful 😍
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If you want to come to my village to visit me on the one and only bus, you get 20 minutes before returning to the local town which you probably didn’t want to go to anyway. As to the initiatives for children walking to school……this involves walking along narrow winding roads, with no pavements and encountering drivers who think they can see round blind bends! There used to be a railway, which would have given numerous options of where to go. Of course, it was closed. I had no option, but to learn to drive. I love living here, but a car is essential.
My son has inherited a Tesla. Loves it. However, he lives in the USA. It seems they are better set up for charging places where he is. I was reading that here at the moment 1 in 10 charging points are out of action.