Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: MrsRoo on March 03, 2022, 02:49:26 PM
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Hi everyone!
It’s me again with my sore, burning whatsit.
I’ve posted a couple of times so just a brief overview: I’m on systemic HRT (Orstrogel & Utrogestan) but get really bad symptoms of vaginal atrophy/GSM. I’ve tried Vagifem in the past but didn’t really get on with it and have been using Ovestin cream for about six months. I’ve now been in a VA flare up for about four weeks, am burning, sore and have horrendous urinary urgency, am peeing all the time and constantly feel like I need to pee. I’ve done another two week load of Ovestin but still the symptoms continue.
I’ve seen the GP today and she examined me and gave me Dermol lotion and said to continue the Ovestin twice a week. She didn’t want to change my local estrogen and said that as I’ve been on topical estrogen for so long, this issue can’t be to do with that.
I feel so desperate and am going to have to get products for myself or see a private doctor.
Could you please tell me what has worked for you with regard to VA and things that haven’t. I can then look into this knowing what is effective and what’s not.
Many thanks for all of your help ladies!
Roo xx
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Hello MrsRoo. I am so sorry to hear how much pain you are in. Like you, I cannot take vaigem. I have been on ovestin every single day for 3 months and feel no better. I spoke to a menopause DR who just advised me to wash in E45 cream and use it to act as a moisturiser and barrier. I am not feeling any different. I do not know what the solution is but just wanted you to know you are not alone.
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Firstly - if you stick to 1 thread you are less likely to get lost!
What advice were you given previously? 'ovestin' needs to be used every night if necessary, regardless of what a GP might suggest. I often put an extra dose up in the afternoon as well as my evening treatment. It is what suits you, not what the GPs/Nurses say!
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Twice a week is probably absolute minimum Ovestin. Interesting your gp didn't suggest upping that dosage. I'm not sure how an emollient is going to impact the severe conditions you describe. What dose, delivery method of systemic are you on? (Sorry I'm not familiar with progesterone, so would not feel confident about discussing that, but others will be!) I know you were asking about Estring and I gave you a little of my experience of it, personally. I was prescribed it initially for recurrent utis. It is certainly great for plumping and moistening the tissue, at least in my case, but lately has not been enough and I now have Vagifem three times a week and Ovestin externally twice a week in addition which may still not be enough, certainly until the systemic kicks in more. That's why I wanted to ask about your dosage/delivery method there. Hope this helps. It sounds very difficult for you at the moment! Of course, you could always e-mail Dr. Currie? She might have sound answers and advice for you and from her medical, professional input, you could take it to your gp? It can be very influential!
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Flossieteacake, thank you so much for your reply. I’m sorry that you’re going through this too. It’s a nightmare! Hopefully we will both get some relief soon.
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Firstly - if you stick to 1 thread you are less likely to get
I am new to the forum and simply trying to get some help.
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Postmeno3, thank you for your (second :)) reply to me. My GP didn’t want to up my dosage or try a different method of local estrogen such as Estring. She said that, as I’ve been using local estrogen for a while, my symptoms couldn’t be due to Low estrogen and thought it was a dermatitis or some such. I did emphasise that I’ve got horrendous urinary urgency and she said ‘it’s all connected’. I don’t think I could just email Dr Currie could I?
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Yes, you can. You just push the "Contact" tab on the black bar at the top of the page. It costs £30, but for a private online consultation is so worth it if you can. It was a complete game-changer for me when I first started out. She will advise informatively and kindly.
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Thank you Postmeno3! I think I might do that. Sorry, I didn’t answer your question! I’m on 3 pumps of Oestrogel transdermal gel daily (for now, as my pharmacist told me today that there’s a manufacturing problem and he can’t get it at the moment. Eek!) and 200mg of Utrogestan (progesterone) for twelve days of the month orally.
I’m really struggling to see the point at the moment
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If U stick to your original thread and post as you have done here, you won't miss responses nor will your thread become lost.
Which point are you struggling with? As the body dries it can take a while to ease symptoms, particularly where the tissues are thin, i.e. in the vagina.
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Hi MrsRoo, I too am really sorry to hear of your struggles with this, unfortunately I too am in the same situation, vagifem was a no go for me made things worse, ovestin no matter how much I use doesn't seem to make a difference, my gp said IC back in November gave me various treatments which helped but didn't take it away, at my hrt review in January my GP did say I could use ovestin as much as I like, I'm going to ask for the estring, as I think the fillers in both vagifem and ovestin irritate me, I don't understand why your GP, won't let you give another delivery method a go, mine is quite good at letting me choose, I would maybe push to try it, it may be the one thing that brings you relief, I really feel for you and hope you get some relief, I know how truly awful this feeling is, my worst symptom with this is the need to wee, I too don't have a solution but like flossieteacake said you definitely aren't alone.
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Thank you so much Amazing grace. What a lovely reply. I’ve been sitting here in tears this afternoon and your message has really helped. My GP was of the opinion that this couldn’t be a hormone issue as I’ve been using topical/local estrogen for a while. I’m thinking of going private to try Estring or Intarosa. I can’t continue like this. I’ve also got a severe prolapsed disc in my spine so I don’t need additional pain and problems. It’s making me so low. I’m so sorry that you’re going through it too but we are in it together and that helps. Xx
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I agree with "Amazing grace" that your gp seems to be confining you. This is where input from Dr. Currie will feel more supportively informative and perhaps encourage your gp to be more creative or offer direct advice on a different way forward for you. Good luck and let us know how you get on. It's so easy to feel terribly stuck with all this and without autonomy. Seeking a second opinion will change those feelings for you. 😊
No need to go private for Estring! Perhaps mention you want to try this if you decide to contact Dr. Currie.
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Thank you Postmeno3! My GP was just adamant that this wasn’t a hormone issue . She is usually very good and I’m only getting the HRT help because of her.
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You need to use your VA treatment every day, your symptoms are not improving because you are not using enough. It can takes months for VA treatment to work that's why it's important to keep at it, no messing just go on the attack, the only way you will beat this!
Emailing Dr Currie will be helpful to put your mind at ease I'm sure!
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Thank you so much Amazing grace. What a lovely reply. I’ve been sitting here in tears this afternoon and your message has really helped. My GP was of the opinion that this couldn’t be a hormone issue as I’ve been using topical/local estrogen for a while. I’m thinking of going private to try Estring or Intarosa. I can’t continue like this. I’ve also got a severe prolapsed disc in my spine so I don’t need additional pain and problems. It’s making me so low. I’m so sorry that you’re going through it too but we are in it together and that helps. Xx
honestly I would try your GP again before going private, it's not unreasonable for you to ask to try another delivery method after all how many of us try a systemic hrt, then move to another if it starts to not suit us or no longer works as well as it once did doctors don't say you have been on it a long time so no point changing , same must apply to vaginal estrogen I think you should explain to your GP how much this is affecting you both physically and mentally, I know for me this nasty menopause symptom has taken me to the edge of sanity, it's horrible that you are in tears with this, I so wish I could give you a hug, I know it's difficult to push a GP to get what you want I struggle with doing that, but try calling them back maybe see or ask to speak to another doctor in the surgery, I hope you are able to post in a few days and say you got the estring, we are definitely in it together and knowing that really does help, take care and I wish you luck xx ps not sure if I did the quote thing right to respond to you post
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Hi MrsRoo, it frustrates me this is still happening with doctors, I suffered as you are doing for a year or so on just a couple of doses a week of vagifem before seeing a gynae who sorted out my prescriptions. I'm now on 5 a week vagifem, everyday if needed and every night with Ovestin, I couldn't manage on any less and still sometimes have flare ups. Dermovate helps when I'm really sore externally, used short term its fast healing makes it easier to apply the ovestin without it stinging and burning, when your so sore everything you apply burns. Yes water based helps with the dryness and Bepanthen is also soothing externally. You just have to throw everything at this to manage it. The main ingredient to manage VA is estrogen, all the other stuff helps but you need to replace the estrogen with whatever dosage it takes. If your doctor wont prescibe what you need ask for a referral.
I know it's expensive but you can also buy online with Superdrug, I did this once when I didnt have enough vagifem to take on holiday. It's an online consultation and then Ovestin or Vagifem (cost me £40) delivered to your address. This could supplement your dose until you get something sorted with your doctor. Hope you get some relief soon, I've had VA for 7 years now, it does take a while to sort out but you will get there.
Just an after thought have you been checked for an uti or thrush?
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After a couple of years of just Vagifem or just Ovestin and always having flare ups, the turning point for me was using both Vagifem and Ovestin internally. Everyone is right two a week isn’t enough, my current routine is
Night 1- Vagifem internally and Ovestin externally
Night 2- Ovestin internally
Night 3- Vagifem internally and Ovestin externally
Night 4- nothing
Then I repeat all over again. I also use Yes VM morning and afternoon, and Olive and Bee at night just before Vagifem or Ovestin.
This has been a game changer for me. It’s been over 13 months since I’ve had a flare up. I’m blessed to have a wonderful doctor who lets me use what I want, when I want.
I hope you get the help you need and can be like me, comfortable and feel normal
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Lyncola, its posts like yours that gave me the confidence to know how to treat this awful condition when I was first diagnosed. It gave me the confidence to use the treatments as and when needed, and then confirmed by my doctor that this was ok to do. The treatments are safe to use and the reason they will soon be available to buy over the counter without a doctor’s prescription, I for one welcome this.
MrsRoo, I hope you find the solution and the regime, and that’s what it is, that suits you too. Do keep us up to date on how things are going, you will get there in the end! X
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Thank you ladies for your replies. You’re all so kind.
Deirdre, I have looked online for Vagifem and can get it for £40, so I might try that along with the Ovestin and see how that goes.
Lyncola, thank you so much for your detailed reply and advice. I think I will try using the two (Vagifem and Ovestin) going forward then speak to my GP about it if it works.
Thank you for your kind words Gracie, I really appreciate your support. X
As an update, I was using Ovestin in the afternoon (I started doing this when I was using a BV treatment at night and didn’t go back) and I noticed that my symptoms are always bad earlier in the day and less (not gone but less problematic) in the evening so last night I added a second dose of Ovestin (and a bit extra rubbed around the vulva) and I feel less raw today. I’ve even been for a walk, which I couldn’t have done yesterday! I will continue with the Ovestin at night and afternoon if necessary and see how I go. I definitely feel brighter today, yesterday I felt so depressed. Thank you all for your support. You’re the best! Xx
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It is wonderful to hear today is a better day for you and that you were able to go for a walk. :)
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Very pleased to hear you are feeling a bit better, hopefully things will continue to get even better for you now, best of luck x
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So glad you are feeling much better! :)
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Sorry to hear you’re suffering. It’s horrible. I had no luck with vagifem, ovestin or intrarosa Rosa. I then had laser treatment but the va started coming back. Then, by chance, I was given an estriol cream called blissell to try. It’s helped more than anything else so far. After laser treatment I was getting progressively worse with ovestin, using it daily and still having problems. I did two weeks of the estriol cream and am now using it only 2 or 3 times a week (I always had to use the others daily and still struggled). Don’t know how long it will last for but I’m on my second tube after three months and it’s still helping. Might be worth a try. The chemist did say that different women respond to different forms of the hormone. Hope you get it sorted. I also use Shea butter in between, I found yes etc too harsh for me.
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Just thought. Hope it doesn’t turn out to be the same as ovestin😁
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Hi MrsRoo…….. I was prescribed Dermovate ointment to use along side Vagifem and Ovestin……it really did help to calm things down……so maybe worth asking your GP if this would be suitable for you……. Hope you get some relief soon
xx
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I suffer the same as you.. my GP in Wales refused to give me vagifem when I moved here from England. She gave me one tube of ovestin and in 6 years I’ve had one other tube. I paid to see a private doctor last year and I now have vagifem but I find that neither medication is helping much. The constant need to run to the loo is getting me down. I was up 7 times in the night and it’s been like that for a month. Ovestin is now making the frequent urination worse. Vagifem has always suited me but I’ve now started to get stomach cramp when using it.. I feel for you because when it all flairs up it’s hard to get it all back to a liveable situation and it can feel overwhelming. I hope things continue to improve for you.. keep us updated
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Thank you for your replies Otter, Mrs Bennet and Lynne888. It really is a nightmare!
Just an update; I was on three days of antibiotics in case it was a UTI and while I was on those, things seemed better. There was no urinary urgency, no burning etc. however, now the course is finished I’m back where I started. I’ve been using Ovestin daily since Feb 22nd and have also been having an extra dose during the day sometimes but it’s still the same. I have some days where it seems almost gone (yesterday was a good day) then other days where it is horrendous (today). I’m so ground down with it that I’m weeping most days.
I’ve completed the form to ask Dr Currie for advice so fingers crossed she’s able to help. I will let you all know if I get any relief.
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Its like this im afraid, im having a flare up at the moment and ive had this 7 yesrs now. Doubled up on everything and ordered a new tube of Dermovate as the other was 3 months old it degrades after opening that long, im hoping the fresh one will do the trick. Using 2 vagifem a night for a few days plus ovestin externally and internally. No idea whats caused this one, usually stress but who knows! I've not been taking my Vit D3 so will start again. Im better when I get the sun too.
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It is still very early on in your treatment so dont be too disheartened. If you have even an hour without pain, I call that progress. :)
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Thank you for your replies Otter, Mrs Bennet and Lynne888. It really is a nightmare!
Just an update; I was on three days of antibiotics in case it was a UTI and while I was on those, things seemed better. There was no urinary urgency, no burning etc. however, now the course is finished I’m back where I started. I’ve been using Ovestin daily since Feb 22nd and have also been having an extra dose during the day sometimes but it’s still the same. I have some days where it seems almost gone (yesterday was a good day) then other days where it is horrendous (today). I’m so ground down with it that I’m weeping most days.
I’ve completed the form to ask Dr Currie for advice so fingers crossed she’s able to help. I will let you all know if I get any relief.
I know this is an old post but I have the same urinary issues and wondered if you got any success or relief MrsRoo?
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MrsRoo has long gone. Browse all the topics associated with vaginal atrophy; make notes. Do read the 'bladder issues' thread too .
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Yes, you can. You just push the "Contact" tab on the black bar at the top of the page. It costs £30, but for a private online consultation is so worth it if you can. It was a complete game-changer for me when I first started out. She will advise informatively and kindly.
I tried. She is booked up and not taking anymore questions
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Making you aware that at present you can't request help via Dr Currie. Her workload is too big and she's not taking anymore questions, at least when I tried the other day
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Some1 should be taking queries though as waiting lists for clinics are very long :-\
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The saying patience is a virtue can be applied when suffering symptoms of VA. I would say it can take a year and beyond for your body to repair with treatment. After that you will still have the odd flare up, being constant with the treatment is the only answer if everything else that could be going on has been ruled out.