Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: skkb on February 11, 2022, 04:18:13 PM
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On my 3rd course of antibiotics, almost 3 weeks since symptoms began. This time I have 7 day course not a 3 day and a 4 day as before!! Just rang the surgery and apparently my urine sample is negative……so why am I still feeling cystitis symptoms? Miserable
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So you don't require ABs and your GP should be prescribing vaginal atrophy treatment. Ring the surgery now and ask for 'vagifem' to be left to be collected today or the morning at a Pharmacist, the GP can ring through a prescription if necessary.
In the mean time, take pain relief. When I get the need2P I take 2 'nurofen' capsules 3 times a day until the symptoms ease. I use 'ovestin' VA treatment.
Let us know how you get on. VA mimics repeated urinary tract symptoms really really well, something that your GP obviously doesn't realise!
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Hi SKKB
I couldn't agree with CLKD more!
I had lost count of the times my GP prescribed ABs for me. I returned negative urine sample results and still had horrendous cystitis like symptoms.
Thankfully a new GP in our surgery examined me a few months ago (shock horror, imagine the GP actually having a look!) and immediately diagnosed vaginal atrophy. Relevant medication prescribed and symptoms have disappeared.
Take CLKD's advice and good luck :bighug:
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Sympathy SKKB . VA mimic cystitis like everybody else says which is a rotten feeling. Oestrogen where is needed is necessary to treat it. You might want to eat bio live yogurt (important it says bio live on the pot! ) to help you recover from the AB's. It helps your digestion and vaginal health. It is nice and cheap and works :)
With best wishes 💓
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I have in the past eaten LIVE Greek yoghurt as well as applying into the vagina to ease symptoms. Remembering of course, to keep the pots separate ;-)
Did U ring the Surgery?
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I can relate to this , on my last day of antibiotics and still got the horrible burning sensation 😞 never once have they diagnosed VA even though this pain been coming and going for years ........ I'm already using ovestin twice a week but I feel like I'm going out of my mind is there anything you experienced women can recommend as I'm due to go away tomorrow for hen do and I feel absolutely terrible 😞😞
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Sometimes, if you have had a bad deep-seated infection, the inflammation can remain for quite a while after the infection has gone.
Same thing happened to me after a kidney infection. The backache went quickly but the soreness from th the hip to bladder, took a few weeks. Just keep drinking loads of water and avoid anything that might irritate your urinary tract, such as fruit juice.
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Gosh thankyou all so much. VA is absolutely not something that I had thought about. I still take HRT 3 days each week so hoped I was getting some estrogen. No it hasn’t been mentioned to me at all by a doctor. I don’t get the burning sensation just a dull, heavy ache (temporarily relieved by going to the loo) which persists and generally feel rubbish. I wasn’t aware that the symptoms of VA and cystitis are similar so thank for the information. Will do some research as I’m back at the doctors on Monday for blood tests !!
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I can relate to this , on my last day of antibiotics and still got the horrible burning sensation 😞 never once have they diagnosed VA even though this pain been coming and going for years ........ I'm already using ovestin twice a week but I feel like I'm going out of my mind is there anything you experienced women can recommend as I'm due to go away tomorrow for hen do and I feel absolutely terrible 😞😞
I use Ovestin every night. I find if I miss a night then my symptoms become worse. Maybe you would like to try that.
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Sorry same I being a bit dense, why would VA give similar symptoms when it’s a separate organ from the bladder!? Will definitely investigate as the last 3 weeks have been dreadful.
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Has anyone tried D Mannose for cystitis? Rave reviews !!
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Sorry same I being a bit dense, why would VA give similar symptoms when it’s a separate organ from the bladder!? Will definitely investigate as the last 3 weeks have been dreadful.
I read the lack of estrogen weakens the bladder. I know it affects my bladder. I need to go the toilet constantly and can never empty my bladder. I also feel a lot of pain. I am sorry you are going through this. I was in the same situation, having antibiotics for a urine infection but the samples not showing any sign of infection. It was when I read on here about vaginal atrophy that I suggested it is what I have. The GP dismissed me but the symptoms carried on and then I requested treatment.
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How interesting Flossetcake, I’ll definitely mention VA to the doctor on my next visit.
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Don't wait to see your GP! Ring the surgery and request 'vagifem' or 'ovestin' ASAP. The condition will worsen the longer you leave it!
Both preparations can be used nightly if necessary. The idea is to use it every night for 2-3 weeks then either as necessary or with a couple of days gap between doses. Do read the appropriate thread :Vaginal Atrophy: on the Forum. Make notes.
4 me it was like razor blades :o up there!
A lack of oestrogen may cause the body to become dry, inside and out. As well as causing muscles to become lax, = aches and pains.
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Hi again SKKB
You were asking about DMannose. Some time ago a hospital nurse suggested I take this supplement to prevent UTIs.
I took it for months. It did prevent actual infection but it did not address the underlying problem which, for me, was VA (as I recently discovered I had). I still had a dull dragging feeling down below, a dry uncomfortable sensation in the vagina and a general feeling of being unwell, getting a little bit of relief when sitting on the toilet :-\
The only thing that has alleviated my symptoms has been the combination of estradiol pessaries 3 times a week, sylk moisturiser and a gentle washing lotion in the shower.
No more “cystitis-like” symptoms nor UTI…..
Hope you get on ok ;)
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I just want to confirm everything said above. I was suffering the same symptoms as you until I started treatment for Vaginal Atrophy.
No more feelings of bladder infections just the symptoms from a lack of oestrogen down there that mimics so brilliantly urine infection!
Don't delay, start treatment as soon as you can.
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That’s so interesting thankyou. I’ve looked at the symptoms for VA and my only ones from the list of 13 are occasional genital itching, vaginal discharge and frequent urination. I don’t have any pain other than the heavy, dragging ache. No pain or burning when I pee (it’s always been like that since the first time I had cystitis. So I guess you could say it’s quite mild !! So do you think it could still be VA??
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Frequent urination is a symptom. Maybe yours is not severe yet which is brilliant. With the discharge, mine is like water. I was not even aware it was discharge and thought it was sweat!
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What's your problem, is it that the medication is often seen as "HRT" : where as it may well be vaginal atrophy : maybe stop looking elsewhere for 'symptoms' ? There are several signs, from which you are describing seems like VA. The longer you wait the more intense your symptoms may become. Dryness at it's worst can cause the vaginal lips to 'seal' which requires surgical intervention. Rare but it can happen when women are a) not aware of VA so think that they have 'to live with it' and b) when women are too embarrassed to speak to a medical professional.
Don't be shy, they have seen it all B4! A list of 13 :-\. Does that include 'razor blades up there' ? Have a lookC at the 'sylc' and 'yes' websites, you may be able to get freebies ;-). In the mean time use something like KYJelly or 'vagisel' - neither will plump up the vaginal tissues but may ease any soreness/itching. Take regular pain relief until you can speak to a GP or Nurse Practitioner.
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CLKD as I’m still having HRT on 3 days each week it didn’t occur to me that it could be low estrogen causing my problem. I’ve been on HRT for 20 years and gradually over time reduced the dosage to 3 days each week, which seems to work well for my meno symptoms. I’m definitely not averse to trying vagisel or similar. I will definitely look into VA though. I just wasn’t sure that my symptoms are VA related!!
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Let us know how you get on.
As oestrogen levels drop the body may become dry inside and out .........
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If I’m lucky enough to get a doctors appointment (which isn’t easy at the moment……think I was lucky last week) I’ll ask the questions. Unfortunately my surgery won’t prescribe anything for the first time without a face to face with the doctor!!
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Just found Vagisil available on Amazon!! is this the same as the one that is prescribed?
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Hello skkb.good morning.
The names of treatments are soooo confusing! If you have found vagisil check it is a version you can use internally and externally. Is it a brand that contains scent/ fragrance? I made a mistake with a moisturiser marketed as for dryness which has scent. It made me uncomfortable.
These creams and gels without oestrogen can only be a moisturiser, so it's best to use brands that are for very delicate skin even though you don't think you have any problems :)
For me vagisan (Wolf's ) is a good moisturiser cream. The for inside and outside one. Annoyingly the cheaper option is only externally. I needed microscope to find that information on amazon!
Other Ladies have better recommendations, maybe? :)
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Ring your surgery and ask for an emergency app.? You do not require an examination, an over the 'phone call should suffice. If you don't ask you won't get and this needs attention ASAP. Unless you have an appt. booked ?
The prescribed treatments are:
'vagifem'
'ovestin' and there are newer preparations being trialled.
Over the Counter treatment may relief soreness but won't help with the loss of oestrogen.
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Thanks Gynaikeios and CLKD, I’m at the surgery in the morning (for blood tests) so just the nurse but will ask for a doctors appointment. I did purchase some “dipstick “ test for UTI and they are still showing a slight infection. Finish the meds on Tuesday. Not going to sit on this as I really want it clearing up before I go away. I have got the D Mannose which I “may” take once I finish the med…….another lady on this thread had tried it and it seemed to be helpful but that’s before she was diagnosed with VA!!
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Vagisel is not estrogen so will not help you with any atrophy symptoms. I hope your appointment goes well tomorrow.
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The Nurse should be able to advise and if necessary, speak to a GP whilst you are there. You can of course, insist upon it. Dipstick :-\. what do you consider infection? Unless a urine sample is sent to a Lab., there is no sure way of finding out.
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Hi, the dipstick testing is for 10 different things but the top two, leukocytes and nitrate are the ones to look at for infection. The colour change clearly indicates infection, or not. They also test for blood, sugar and keystones amongst others. The colour change is very noticeable if there are bacteria present/blood etc, nothing changes if not. I have found them really accurate, I wanted to know if I actually had an infection at all. The doctor did a dipstick test at the surgery and used the same ones as I had purchased online. I guess they’re not 100% but a useful indicator and so far they have worked for me.
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What time of day do you take the urine samples, this may make a difference.
You've sent me on a mission now ;D
NHS website
What is normal range for leukocyte esterase?
A normal range in the bloodstream is between 4,500-11,000 WBCs per microliter. A normal range in the urine is lower than in the blood, and may be from 0-5 WBCs per high power field (wbc/hpf).
One can also have leukocytes in a urine sample but not have an infection.
What causes elevated leukocyte esterase?
Infection
A urinary tract infection (or UTI) is the most commonly occurring reason for increased levels of leukocytes in the urine. High levels indicate that the immune system is trying to fight off a fungal, bacterial or parasitic infection by fungus.
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I have found them really accurate, I wanted to know if I actually had an infection at all. The doctor did a dipstick test at the surgery and used the same ones as I had purchased online. I guess they’re not 100% but a useful indicator and so far they have worked for me.
Same with me, I used them every time I thought I had an infection when what I now know was a flare up of vaginal atrophy. Testing my own urine prevented me from ringing the surgery and asking for more antibiotics. Using the dipsticks reassured me it wasn't an infection which enabled me to concentrate on the vaginal atrophy treatment.
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Gracie, that’s really interesting, VA hadn’t even registered in my brain and now I’m thinking “ is that what I have “ . As I still have HRT on three days each week I assumed ( perhaps wrongly) that my estrogen levels were ok. Certainly food for thought. I just wish that the GP surgeries would ask more questions outside the box !!
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skkb - VA treatment ins't HRT. I don't require HRT but have used VA treatments successfully.
Good point Gracie :thankyou:
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Gracie, what symptoms do you get. I don’t have any discomfort whatsoever in my vagina, no pain, no burning etc, nothing!! My only symptom is the urge to pee frequently, again no burning or pain. I’m troubled thinking how can it be VA without vaginal pain/discomfort. I also haven’t had these symptoms for 3 years…….how often do you get flare ups? How is VA confirmed…..not over the phone that’s for sure!! Oh, I occasionally get sore outside around my vagina but this is effectively treated with Betnovate ointment within 2/3 days….
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I believe there is a condition called irritable bladder.
If you are not suffering inflammation from your previous infection, it could be that. Not every ailment is hormone related.
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skkb, I am about 7 months into vaginal atrophy which is early days for this condition. I suffered severe burning, soreness so bad I couldn't sit down and frequent urges to pee.
Just had my first flare up which meant the above symptoms returning but increasing the dosage of Ovestin used locally to get me back on track. I use Vagifem every day as my symptoms seem to be more on the severe side, in other words I dare not miss a day without using Ovestin and Vagifem.
We are all different and you may well have something else going on but hope you get it sorted soon.
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Thanks Gracie, I really don’t think that VA is my problem as I don’t have any of the typical symptoms, so something else going on I’m sure. Can’t get to see doctor for 2/3 weeks by which time I’ll be totally stressed out. Looked a irritable bladder as suggested by another MM member but that doesn’t really fit the bill either. Doubt I’ll settle until I’ve had a cystoscopy !!!!!
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Do keep us updated, skkb. Your symptoms are interesting and might help others on here, it's not always VA of course!
Best wishes for your cystoscopy, hope it all goes well for you!
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Thanks Gracie, it’ll be a while if/when I can get a cystercopy as I’m going away for a week, which is also stressing me out whilst I feel this way. Unfortunately INTERSTITIAL CYSTITIS seems to be ME, which is quite depressing but I’m not jumping to conclusions yet. Blood test results should be back next week but then I’m away!!! It’s never easy