Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: Iwona on January 29, 2022, 08:48:44 AM
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Hello,
I am "in the end of my coping". I am 62 years old. Have been on HRT, Sandrena and Utrogestan. In May I tried to decrease Sandrena from 1 to 0.5...and in August my problem started. Apart from sweating, depression and lack of sleep, started having more and more severe itching and burning. GP surgery was useless, prescribed Fluconazole that as a trial and error, Metronidazole vaginal, without even checking if I had a bacterial infection. The itching and burning started to be really severe and it also included anal area. Managed to get privately to Gynecologist, Vagifem was prescribed. It helped with symptoms, but then I had another gynecologist appointment, as I was referred, so I thought would be good to have a specialist accepted by my surgery. He prescribed Ovestin, after one week of taking it the symptoms have been back! I stopped it, got back to Vagifem, unsure if I really can take it again...but I cannot cope anymore...I also got back to my Sandrena, increasing the dose to 1.5...
Unsure what to do anymore. The itching and burning interferes with everything, I cannot concentrate at work, cannot do much, also wake up often with itch. It includes anal area as well. I had an appointment with Proctologist and waiting for colonoscopy...
I am really worried that this will never go away and the rest of my life will be in pain and discomfort...
Iwona
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If Vagifem suited you better, I would go back to that. Perhaps do the loading dose again, then reduce to every other day and see how you get on. Not everyone can tolerate Ovestin at first, as it can sting if the tissues are inflamed. Ultimately, the best combination might be Vagifem internally and a small amount of Ovestin mixed with a vaginal moisturiser on the labia.
It is common for the "undercarriage" to be affected in a figure of 8 pattern in menopause, hence the perianal skin being affected. Maybe you could try an emollient on the whole area to protect and moisturize. There are many (eg, Epaderm, Hydromol, Cetraben) but impossible to recommend as you need to find one you like. You can also use these to wash with.
If you are going to see another specialist, the best would be a vulva dermatologist.
The private Vaginal Atrophy Facebook support group is a good resource and well worth joining.
JP x
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Thank you. Just joined the Facebook group...
I reinstated Vagifem, feeling a bit better today. Perhaps because it is weekend. I have noticed that I am worse if there is any additional stress, such as going to work...
I use aqueous cream to wash, it does not irritate me additionally.
I bought "yes" lubricant and this irritated me as well. Seems I respond really sensitively...
I think I made mistake by trying to decrease HRT in may, but it also makes me wonder if I will be ever able to decrease and stop it. My GP keeps telling me that I am well over the limit and should consider stopping...I think there is a new NICE guidance on HRT...
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I'll just mention that you have to be very patient for VA treatments to take effect. For me it took four months using Vagifem and Ovestin on a daily basis before my symptoms cleared up.
From what you say your symptoms are classic VA and with time you will feel much better if you persevere with the Vagifem and Ovestin.
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Hi Iwona,
Sorry things are tough right now.
Your GP and many like yours make my blood boil. You don’t have to stop HRT and you are nowhere near the limit never mind well over it!
Have a look at the NICE guidelines and take them to your next appointment.
I hope you get this under control soon so that you’re not in pain.
Victoria xx
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I'll just mention that you have to be very patient for VA treatments to take effect. For me it took four months using Vagifem and Ovestin on a daily basis before my symptoms cleared up.
From what you say your symptoms are classic VA and with time you will feel much better if you persevere with the Vagifem and Ovestin.
I will try to be more patient with Vagifem. I think ovestin did not suit me, so I will share this with my gynecologist.
This is a new experience for me. I wish I had never decreased Sandrena!
In feel exhausted today after my recent relapse. I felt so good and then crashed back to the symptoms after adding Ovestin...
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Hi Iwona,
Sorry things are tough right now.
Your GP and many like yours make my blood boil. You don’t have to stop HRT and you are nowhere near the limit never mind well over it!
Have a look at the NICE guidelines and take them to your next appointment.
I hope you get this under control soon so that you’re not in pain.
Victoria xx
Thanks Victoria, yes I read a new guidelines, but they (GP surgery) keep repeating the former one...
I am on Sandrena and Utrogestan, if this was stopped I would be depressed and they would start antidepressants!
I hope I will manage to persuade them...
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"In feel exhausted today after my recent relapse. I felt so good and then crashed back to the symptoms after adding Ovestin..."
If it helps my regime is to insert a Vagifem tablet every morning and in the evening a half pea sized amount of Ovestin mixed with Sylk moisturiser used locally around the outside.
I also didn’t get on with Ovestin at first but tips on here about mixing with moisturiser has made all the difference, no more stinging! I also use Sylk during the day if needed.
After six months I am happy to say my lower half is back to normal. I got to the stage where I couldn’t even sit down my symptoms were chronic.
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"In feel exhausted today after my recent relapse. I felt so good and then crashed back to the symptoms after adding Ovestin..."
If it helps my regime is to insert a Vagifem tablet every morning and in the evening a half pea sized amount of Ovestin mixed with Sylk moisturiser used locally around the outside.
I also didn’t get on with Ovestin at first but tips on here about mixing with moisturiser has made all the difference, no more stinging! I also use Sylk during the day if needed.
After six months I am happy to say my lower half is back to normal. I got to the stage where I couldn’t even sit down my symptoms were chronic.
I will probably stay with just Vagifem at present on top of my usual HRT. It seems that any creams, including ovestin just irritate me more. I think this is because of all the other ingredients. Vagifem does not have a lot of other fillers...
I already spend so much money on some products...
As I have never been in situation like this I am unsure what next...and I am aware that this is very individual...
My sensitivity at present is severe. But I always have had problems with cosmetics, have to be very careful...
I have a phone call to my gynecologist on Tuesday, need to ask him to write a letter to my GP and request Vagifem, also need to ask him if I can take it daily until a full improvement...
They also suggested some assessment/biopsy for lychen sclerosis if I don't respond to treatment...hope I don't have it...
Today has been a bit better, perhaps because I am resting ...it is worse during the week, when at work...
Thank you.
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I am much worse today and unsure why, woke up around 3am with itching both vaginal and rectal. Don't know what to do anymore...Feeling exhausted and with no hope...
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Hello Iwona, I am sorry for you having such trouble. I had very bad burning feelings when my VA treatment was new. It is rotten feeling which affected my sleep. Everything stinging as dryness is reversing.
Have you tried an ibuprofen for the pain? I found long acting ibuprofen after my last meal before bedtime helped. If you cannot take ibuprofen then perhaps your gynaecologist will give advise for an alternative.
I hope your gynaecologist will give you a suitable cream to use with vagifem. It can take combination of treatments to make VA improve. For a few times when I really fed up I used a very little of Vagisil (it is off the shelf cream for what it calls intimate itching) on the *outside only* and followed the instructions carefully. Also I tried a test patch on my wrist firstly in case of sensitivity to the local anasthetic in it or anything else. It helped reduce stinging feeling overnight and on days when I sat at a desk or in car for a long time. I have not needed to use for more than just a few times over the whole year I have had VA GSM but it is something.
I hope today will improve for you. X
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I know you think it will never get better but it does. I was at the stage you are now when I thought Vagifem wasn’t working fast enough, I mean how can two little tablets a week make a difference to treat such a chronic condition, it doesn’t.
I phoned my doctor and told her Vagifem wasn’t making a difference to my symptoms, it was then she said use it every day, I was so surprised that it was safe to use on a daily basis.
It took a long time to work but six months on I am symptom free and I am sure you will be too.
You mentioned an appointment with your gynae, I hope it all goes well for you, do keep in touch and let us know how you get on.
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I am much worse today and unsure why, woke up around 3am with itching both vaginal and rectal. Don't know what to do anymore...Feeling exhausted and with no hope...
You definately need to be checked for Lichens sclerosis, preferably by a vulva specialist or dermatologist. In the meantime ask your GP for Dermovate cream and use this twice a day for a least a month. Also use alongside this vagifem and Ovestin externally.
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I am much worse today and unsure why, woke up around 3am with itching both vaginal and rectal. Don't know what to do anymore...Feeling exhausted and with no hope...
You definately need to be checked for Lichens sclerosis, preferably by a vulva specialist or dermatologist. In the meantime ask your GP for Dermovate cream and use this twice a day for a least a month. Also use alongside this vagifem and Ovestin externally.
I actually have dermovate cream at home, but I felt it was really strong...I will restart this as the itching is so severe...
My Gynecologist said he will test my, but wanted to try with vaginal estrogen first...
Last night I almost did not sleep...
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I know you think it will never get better but it does. I was at the stage you are now when I thought Vagifem wasn’t working fast enough, I mean how can two little tablets a week make a difference to treat such a chronic condition, it doesn’t.
I phoned my doctor and told her Vagifem wasn’t making a difference to my symptoms, it was then she said use it every day, I was so surprised that it was safe to use on a daily basis.
It took a long time to work but six months on I am symptom free and I am sure you will be too.
You mentioned an appointment with your gynae, I hope it all goes well for you, do keep in touch and let us know how you get on.
My gynae was really helpful. He will write to GP and request daily Vagifem until I improve...
Last night was very difficult...I feel exhausted, but still have to go to work next day...
Tend to go to sleep around 8pm, as I need some sleep...
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Hello Iwona, I am sorry for you having such trouble. I had very bad burning feelings when my VA treatment was new. It is rotten feeling which affected my sleep. Everything stinging as dryness is reversing.
Have you tried an ibuprofen for the pain? I found long acting ibuprofen after my last meal before bedtime helped. If you cannot take ibuprofen then perhaps your gynaecologist will give advise for an alternative.
I hope your gynaecologist will give you a suitable cream to use with vagifem. It can take combination of treatments to make VA improve. For a few times when I really fed up I used a very little of Vagisil (it is off the shelf cream for what it calls intimate itching) on the *outside only* and followed the instructions carefully. Also I tried a test patch on my wrist firstly in case of sensitivity to the local anasthetic in it or anything else. It helped reduce stinging feeling overnight and on days when I sat at a desk or in car for a long time. I have not needed to use for more than just a few times over the whole year I have had VA GSM but it is something.
I hope today will improve for you. X
Thank you...Vagisil irritates me at present.
I spoke to my Gynecologist and he said that I am very sensitive at present, suggested simple Vaseline + Dermol. He will write to my GP...he said I can take Vagifem daily and was not surprised that Ovestin irritated me... perhaps at some stage i will be able to add this...
I will get it right at some point...but today is another difficult day...
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'vagisil' won't replace the oestrogen which causes dryness despite what the TV adverts suggest ::)
Sometimes the skin is too thin and sensitive so a slowly, slowly approach is wise. Once you find a regime, stick with it! Using the 'vagifem' nightly is probably the way to go. If you can't get it in very far, don't force the issue.
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It is good that your gynaecologist is listening to you, Iwona. I had forgotten about vaseline! :)
Hoping that combination is some relief for you.
I do not know how vagifem works, so this could be a silly question but would it be possible to open one to apply contents mixed with something simple as vaseline to exactly where needed when a lady is supersensitive to ingredients in oestrogen creams? Why do manufacturers not make oestrogen creams for supersensitive skin?
You are right about adverts CLKD. I think we will have more products aimed at us which will only mask symptoms. Money off vouchers for leakiness knix come in the post for example. The ads will not suggest VA GSM as a possible reason, or that VA GSM is treated with topical oestrogen, will they? £€ ::)
(No offence intended to any lady who needs knix like them, please).
My keyboard wanted to write tropical oestrogen ;D
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I could do with some tropicals today ;D
and what on Earth are leakiness knix :o ;D .......... and why on Earth don't I get money off vouchers :-X. too old perhaps :D
Vagifem is delivered in a pessary I think. So don't mix it with anything but push in as far as is comfy. Then further as the skin becomes more plumped up and supple.
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I got a bit desperate while I was waiting for Vagifem to work and at the time Ovestin was making me sting, I decided to crush a Vagifem tablet mixed with Sylk moisturiser. The pessaries are so hard and it was such an effort crushing the small tablet, I ended up with a thick grainy honey texture but enough to rub well in!
I was forever thankful reading on here that if you mixed a moisturiser, like Sylk with the Ovestin it stops any side effects like stinging, very pleased to say I am not crushing any more tablets, such hard little critters!!
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There was an English joking phrase? Adapted? Oooo I could crush a vagifem! ::) ;D
Leakiness knix = tennalady disposable knicker. A leaflet was with our post last year when I was getting my bladder back from GSM. If I did not know about GSM and was not using a prescription I think I would have bought some.
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There was an English joking phrase? Adapted? Oooo I could crush a vagifem! ::) ;D
;D presumably as an expression of annoyance?
JP x
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There was an English joking phrase? Adapted? Oooo I could crush a vagifem! ::) ;D
;D :) :D
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I got a bit desperate while I was waiting for Vagifem to work and at the time Ovestin was making me sting, I decided to crush a Vagifem tablet mixed with Sylk moisturiser. The pessaries are so hard and it was such an effort crushing the small tablet, I ended up with a thick grainy honey texture but enough to rub well in!
I was forever thankful reading on here that if you mixed a moisturiser, like Sylk with the Ovestin it stops any side effects like stinging, very pleased to say I am not crushing any more tablets, such hard little critters!!
I will try to mix this with Vaseline. I cannot take any moisturizer at present, anything irritates me...
But, slept all night last night!!!
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Glad you had a good nights sleep, Iwona. I hope your treatment starts to work for you soon!
Don't do what I have done recently, because of a bad back I started to have hot baths and used too much bubble bath. Bad mistake I now have a flare up of VA but not as severe as before. Just goes to show you can't let your guard down with this dreadful condition.
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Ah I had two free offers for Tena lady which I put into the homeless food box ;-).
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Glad you had a good nights sleep, Iwona. I hope your treatment starts to work for you soon!
Don't do what I have done recently, because of a bad back I started to have hot baths and used too much bubble bath. Bad mistake I now have a flare up of VA but not as severe as before. Just goes to show you can't let your guard down with this dreadful condition.
I did this in the past! No more fancy bath products for me. I mostly use aqueous cream and dermol.
Started using Linomag afterwards, which seems really good for me. It contains: Lini oleum virginale + Vaseline...
Had two good nights!
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Songbird: Vaginal Atrophy mimics repeated urine infection-type symptoms really, really well >:(
How does your anxiety affect you? The early waking hormone, cortisol, can cause surges which are awful. Approprorpiate anti-anxiety can help.
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Hi CLKD
I've had anxious periods throughout all of my adult life to be truthful. I can normally cope but I'm struggling a bit this time around (7 years postmenopause) so have opted to take sertraline to try to stabilise the symptoms. Typically palpitations, overheating, hike in BP and "panicky feeling". Even typing this is bringing it on! Only 1 week in. I tried sertraline before. It helped my anxiety but the diarrhoea was awfu but I want to try and stick with it. Fluoxetine did nothing for my anxiety.
Thanks for listening xx
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Hi
Can I highjack,
Can VA can tummy discomfort? Plus when I’ve inserted Vegifem I start to get symptoms again for a while like low sided tummy discomfort which makes me feel off and sitting back brings on outside lips/walls discomfort because one side feels swollen
I’ve got no burning wee sensation, and it’s not a raw feeling
I’ve been given vegifem and on my 12 day now, I do have periods throughout the day when it settles and doesn’t bother me and tummy feels no discomfort
Do these symptoms sound like VA
As yesterday I was self diagnosing and came up with BV ? But it doesn’t smell and no discharge
I’m very inexperienced in this field and starting to learn more as I go along
I should know though as I’m bloody 64 !
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BV is quite rare I think; a swab will confirm a diagnosis. It's a fishy smelling discharge usually.
VA needs a lot of TLC and regular use of appropriate treatment. 4 me if my VA is becoming a nuisance my belly feels full and uncomfortable. Slightly below the belly button. I can't correlate.
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It sounds like VA to me, it affects us all in different ways it seems. I am suffering a flare up this week which feels exactly like a bladder infection with slight ache on the left lower back. I’ve done a urine test myself and I’m clear of any infection, as I always was when tested at the surgery and the hospital lab.
It’s such a cruel and horrid condition that just comes out of the blue, I am topping up on Ovestin and lots of moisturiser and a daily Vagifem pessary.
I should have kept my mouth shut, boasting on here that my symptoms had cleared up after 6 months on Vagifem & Ovestin >:(
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Obviously catching you out Gracie >:( ::) ..........
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I read something this week and I can't remember the figures, but it was very high in women who suffer with this condition but only 8% seek help, how they can live with this affliction is beyond me!
I also saw a piece on the BBC news, they interviewed a woman and her life coach who was helping her with her HRT issues. I thought F**k me, why didn't I think of that. Then I threw my slipper at the tv!! :(
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Still in discomfort inside V, for instance
If I go forward to get myself up out of the chair it’s very uncomfortable it’s like something being squashed up inside ??
Double dosed yesterday one morning one evening of Vegifem.
Today I’ve put Vaseline around the outside as precaution
Tomorrow is my 14th day, and I’m still suffering. Should I now go to every other day? Or twice a week ?
Not due at well woman clinic till 21 feb
how long should I leave it without seeing someone from practice ?
As there’s only Vegifem & Ovestin(sp)
They give you isn’t there ?
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Dane - discomfort may = dryness. Keep on with the 'vagifem' for at least 4-6 weeks every night.
Would you have a prolapse if you feel like there's something 'up there'? MayB get an appt with your practice nurse for an examination.
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Still in discomfort inside V, for instance
If I go forward to get myself up out of the chair it’s very uncomfortable it’s like something being squashed up inside ??
Double dosed yesterday one morning one evening of Vegifem.
Today I’ve put Vaseline around the outside as precaution
Tomorrow is my 14th day, and I’m still suffering. Should I now go to every other day? Or twice a week ?
Not due at well woman clinic till 21 feb
how long should I leave it without seeing someone from practice ?
As there’s only Vegifem & Ovestin(sp)
They give you isn’t there ?
I have sympathies for you Dane34. It can feel a pulling tugging, squashed feeling :o. VA mimic period pain for me as well-- but not in exactly the same position as real period pain. Just a rotten feeling to have all the time :-\ . I do not have prolapse but it did feel wrong until the tissues re expanded.
14 days is your loading time, so try every two days now, maybe? Maybe go back to everyday if you feel you need, like CLKD says. I only have cream and I apply small dose if I wake up in morning feeling aware of symptoms even if I applied a full dose the previous night. Same if I feel symptoms in the evening even if my dose will be the next night.
It will become less painful as the oestrogen does its treatment. You will start to know how you need your doses to be now you have 2 types of treatment. My GP said it is not possible to overdose this VA treatment because it delivers to such a precise area and is such a small quantity of oestrogen.
My GP asked me to give update after 3 months. We discussed how I needed to use during the 3 months so I told her what works for me. I have worked out what works for me during my periods (I am still peri at 57 years old) so I have not had extra pain from VA with any period pain since I found what works for me -- if that makes sense :)
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Perfect sense :thankyou:
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Your very early into your treatment for VA. Keep at it using Vagifem every day and lots of moisturiser, Sylk or Yes.
I was the same as you, thought I had a prolapse but it wasn't, the symptoms do mimic a lot of other conditions.
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Thank you ladies for taking time to answer ;) much appreciated
I will keep you updated
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That's what we are here for. To share experiences which others can use if/when necessary.
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I am beginning to feel better, I have been on daily Vagifem for one month and use something called Linomag externally.
I am a bit concerned as I will have a colonoscopy in two weeks, worried it will upset the balance...
Also, I got an invitation for smear test. No way I am going to get it done at present. Everything still feels sore. And also I had a full check up with a gynecologist in December, USG and so called PAP test, is this the same as smear test?
I have the results, but not in English, unfortunately...
The smear test is done by nurses in UK, and I had a very bad experiences in the past...
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The PAP test looks for abnormal cells on the cervix, the cervical screening test looks fot HPV infection that can cause the cells to change to abnormal. I think they are both done the same way though.
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Hi Iwona,
I had a colonoscopy February 2021, and I noticed no difference with my VA, so hopefully it will be the same for you :)