Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Postmenopause => Topic started by: Postmeno3 on December 03, 2021, 03:47:27 PM
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Hi.
Am about to progress to trying gel for ease of titration. I note in the leaflet it says to spread over a wide area. How wide? I have very "generous" thighs! 😂
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Hi I spread 2 pumps on each inner thigh from the top of my inner thigh to the top of the knee. x
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Wow! That far! Am starting on half a pump to phase out the patches, initially. Thanks for the tip! I'd really no idea what "widely" meant! 🙄
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I put a trail of it down each inner thigh (1 pump per leg) from top to bottom then spread it from there, as far as it needs to be spread thinly, usually around 4 inches. If you leave it in blobs it takes forever to dry.
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Hi
I do 4 pumps, so two per upper arm. I just squirt the 2 pumps and rub up the outer arm from above elbow to just on shoulder until absorbed, repeat other arm and leave uncovered for at least another 5 minutes.
Others can maybe jump in and tell me if I'm doing this wrong?
Xxx
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Hi Cookie25
I do that sometimes 😊. It’s absolutely fine . I alternate between shoulders and thighs depending on how I’m feeling 😂. X
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About to start. Is the inner thigh more towards the back, as in not the middle of the inner thigh? I have pretty heavy inner thighs and clearly need to find the area best for absorption? Feeling a bit "thick" about this, sorry! 🙄
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I was just like you! My GP said rub it into the wobbly bits of the inner thighs, avoid knicker line and go down to your knees! If I’m in a rush I put it on my arms too. I used to try and be as precise as poss but nowadays it gets slapped on, rubbed in and I’ve not noticed any difference.
The alcohol smell does disappear quickly. I’m on 4 pumps and stink of vodka for about 5 mins!
You’ve probably put it on by now, how did it go?
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Still bracing myself.....😂
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;D ;D ;D
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I used to be really precise about it too… had to be in the same place at the same time . Now I just slap it on ;D. It gets easier as you use it. I’ve been using it for 4 years xxx
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Thanks, Dotty and VictoriaV. The deed is done. I felt like I should be cutting a ribbon or something! Onwards! :)
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Ok, next step....bathing. I was told to put the gel on in the evening and "leave bathing/showering till the morning". I now really enjoy and tolerate a bath in the evening, but, obviously with emollient or anything other than water, gel absorption could be compromised? Could I still have a bath early evening and put the gel on before bed? Do I have to wash the site of application again before putting the gel on? Is it really as complicated as it seems at the moment? 😂
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Any traces of emollient on the skin will prevent absorption, and emollient will still be there a few hours afterwards. Best to clean the application site before applying. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
JP xx
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I put the gel on in a morning after showering. X
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By cleaning the site, what with? Presumably anything used to clean the site could affect absorption too?
Dotty, I presume you avoid the site when showering?
I'm feeling incredibly "thick"! 😒
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Anything that removes/dispels grease, eg, soap, ordinary shower gel, or surgical spirit.
JP x
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Hi I shower as normal but I don’t use shower gels or creams….just soap. Once I’m dry I put the gel on and wait for it to dry before getting dressed. Often have a bath at night too. X
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Hi
I do as Dotty does. I just use a bar of soap in the shower and once dry I put my gel on, rub it in and then avoid dressing for at least 5 mins but longer if I can - eg brush my teeth and make my bed etc xxx
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Thanks, everyone. I guess it's just about getting used to the requirements and factoring them into a daily rhythm. More complicated and time-consuming than patches, though. Onwards! Some people talk about really rubbing it in and others, including the leaflet, about "applying"? 🤔
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Yes it’s just a case of getting used to it. It soon just becomes part of the daily routine x
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I believe most (all?) of it's absorbed while it's wet so rubbing it in may not give you the full dose. The important thing is that you do the same each time so you get a consistent dose.
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Blimey! It gers worse! 🤯 So, just spread lightly on the surface?
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Sorry, I'll shut up :). You'll soon get used to it.
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No, no, sheila99! The more advice I get the better. Thank you! 🙏
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There’s a vid on the Newson site, the doc is rubbing it on her arms like you’d put sun cream on, she really rubs it in, not sure if this link will work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6DcKLtQ3tM
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Wow, that's a Swedish massage! 😂 Lots of different theories then! Thanks for that clip.
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I didn’t used to rub it in as well until I saw that vid, I used to do a 15 min hula hoop session waiting for it to dry and it’d still be tacky! It now dries in under 5 mins.
I’m thinking about trying a patch, do you leave it on when getting a bath or take it off and re-apply?
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I left them on. It was never a problem. Good luck! 😊
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I do wish Louise newson and the oestrogel manufacturer would speak to each other and come up with a consistent view :-\. It's the same for utrogeston used vaginally, manufacturer says same dose as oral, she says halve it. Who are we supposed to believe??
I don't think it matters too much for oestrogel though, if it does absorb differently you can adjust the dose until it suits you. Utrogeston is worse as you won't know you're creating a problem until it's too late.
At night I apply to inner thighs and straight to bed, just hold the covers away for a couple of minutes. In the morning I apply to thighs, dress top half, brush hair, make the bed then it's dried anyway. If I applied to arms I'd be rubbing it in vigorously too, far too cold in my house ;D. I think you just need to find a routine that suits you.
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Yes, it's very early days and only one pump prescribed till next bloods. I'm getting somewhere, I think, at snail's pace. I do notice if I just "apply", it stays quite tacky for some time, so maybe something a bit more vigorous is required after all. Anybody's guess right now! ::)
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This thread is really helpful, thanks. I started on thighs, but couldn't get it to dry - although I now realise I probably wasn't rubbing it in enough! - switched to upper arms and it dries really quickly. It's also easier to wander about and do other things while it dries when it's on your arms.
I put it on in the mornings, after I've had a bath.
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Thanks! Yeah, it's a shame the important HOW can be missed out in favour of the WHAT. Given it's tending to be about absorption, fairly crucial to understand the best way to achieve that!
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I seem to have regressed a bit since starting on gel and applying to the inner thigh. I have wobbly areas there which makes me think the absorption may not be sufficiently penetrative? The specialist said that's where the skin is thinnest, but that doesn't feel the case for me? I'm only on one pump, so apply it all to one leg, the same one. How does this dosage compare with Evorel25? Bladder frequency is back, more tired and lacking energy/motivation, hungry all the time! Arms next? 🤔
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Hi PM, I can’t help with dosage comparison as I only know gel. Can you increase to 1.5 pumps before the vicious circle of bladder urgency> sleep disturbance> shattered> anxiety> joint ache cycle really gets embedded?
The turning point for me (I think looking back!) was getting enough HRT to stop nocturia which enabled sleep, things improved very quickly once sleep wasn’t disturbed.
Or even increase by a quarter of a pump?
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I found no difference in uptake between arms and legs though I think there's someone who does. It isn't unusual to absorb differently even though on paper it's the same dose. I would increase by half a pump as well.
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Hi 1pump is roughly equal to a 25 patch x
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That's interesting, Dotty, as technically like using a patch every day whereas I was only applying one twice a week as prescribed. Is a half or quarter pump easily enough measured and accurate enough? The specialist wanted me to stay on the one pump till the next bloods in about ten days.
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That's interesting, Dotty, as technically like using a patch every day whereas I was only applying one twice a week as prescribed. Is a half or quarter pump easily enough measured and accurate enough? The specialist wanted me to stay on the one pump till the next bloods in about ten days.
I think the 25mg patch delivers the equivalent of 1 pump of gel daily opposed to it containing 1 pump of gel dispersed over how many days it’s worn, but I might be wrong or have the wrong end of the stick here!
I’m not sure how accurate we can be with gel, there are too many variables. There have been times when I’ve put jeans on too quickly and half of it’s soaked into denim or the day when I applied 4 pumps on twice and odd day I forgot to put it on at all. Putting it on twice made me very energetic but no effects from taking none or less? For me I feel like once the body is replenished there’s a bit of leeway between dosage but I’ve not missed two days in a row so don’t know how long the leeway is!
Not sure what I’d do regarding blood test in ten days, maybe see how you feel tomorrow as today might be a one off yak day?
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Hi yes Victoria is right. I don’t think I explained myself very well. 1 pump of gel gives you the same amount of oestrogen that a 25 patch gives you every day .
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Given that it's only 10 days it might be best to wait if you can cope with it. My understanding of the 25mg patch is that it gives you 25mg every day so one pump should be equivalent. If your symptoms are returning it would indicate you absorb less readily from gel but as you can easily increase the dose it really doesn't matter.
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Thanks, everyone. At the moment, it's all feeling terribly random, sooooooo many variables! Is the site/dose/delivery method the issue? Who knows. So, yes, I'll give it the ten days and see what the bloods are showing. I think, if an absorption issue proves to be the case, it may be that a higher dosage by the simplest delivery method to manage, is what's needed rather than flitting from this to that delivery method at minimum dosage. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again.