Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Teresa on December 03, 2021, 10:02:55 AM
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Hi All,
I’m hoping someone has been in a similar situation and knows the answer to this….
I increased my oestregen patch in desperation a week ago from Evorel 50 to Evorel 75. I am post menopausal and had been on a 50 patch equivalent for nearly 4 months, with no real improvement in many of my symptoms. My blood test in Late Oct, showed my estradiol levels were just 105 pmo/l so I was still the levels of a post menopausal woman, in fact below the levels.
I had been hesitant in changing, as my Dr worried me about increasing. I take a low dose of carbamazepine, for a neurological problem and have done so for 25 years. She advised that carbamazepine alters the way that it breaks down the progesterone, so I was getting a lesser dose of the Utrogestan , but she still prescribed them for me in the end. She said it would have to be reviewed again. They sat in my drawer for a few weeks, whilst I plucked up the courage to change. Last week was also a bad week as I’d been on an antidepressant (3rd one I tried) for just over a week, but was advised to stop due to severe side effects :-\ so it was in desperation that I upped the oestregen patch.
Within a day, I felt my anxiety symptoms improved and they have continued to do so. I am not expecting miracles overnight, but the fact I felt better was great….however my sleep has got so much worse ???
I am now getting incredibly anxious during the night as I’m not sleeping at all. I slept about 3 hours the night before last and last night 1 hour. I can feel my heart increase when I did drop off at about 5 this morning, it’s like I jolt myself awake, and I’m in half sleep, which is really odd and then I get more anxious….it’s been awful.
I called the GP today and am expecting a call back later….however she is anti HRT and I’m really worried what she will say. Does it sound like I need to increase the utrogestan to 200 mg a day? Does anyone do that continuously?
Thankyou in advance,
Teresa
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Hi All,
My doctor called….she won’t increase my utrogestan 😳😞 she said that I can’t expect HRT is not a ‘catch all’ and that there could be mire to my insomnia that needs to be dealt with. Though she’s not doing anything about it.
She has referred me to a menopause clinic but said it could take a long while and they might not even see me 😳
I am a bit fed up.
Teresa
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Why do you think you should increase your utrogestan to 200mg? The dose is 100mg continuously for post menopausal women I thought?
Your best bet t is a referral to a menopause clinic/specialist as these gps can be less than helpful at times.
I think utrogestan can be increased to control bleeding? Other then that,not heard of the dose going up.
Sadly, HRT doesn’t fix all symptoms as I’m finding out myself.
I take Amitriptyline for sleep, a low dose, no side effects, non addictive and I get to sleep so I can work etc.
Hope you find a sleep remedy soon.
Essential oils can be calming, rescue remedy, magnesium spray, ashwangandha tablets ,etc?
Xx
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If the Utrogestan continues to make me feel drowsy I’ll be looking to take 200mg nightly too. I’m peri so the GP might not allow that. I suspect the drowsy feeling will wear off as my body gets used to it so it may not work anyway.
I think there are other members who take 200mg on conti for sleep. I think EllaAurora might.
You’ve recently increased the patch to 75, your sleep might improve as your body adjusts?
Glad you’re getting sleep Nas, did you ever try the Ashwanga(sp?) stuff?
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I take Utrogestan 200 mg daily continuously. This was the advice of Newson GP, to control frequent bleeding, which was investigated to exclude problems.
I also have Evorel 75 patch plus two pumps of oestrogel daily and it was this gel top up which finally resolved my sleep problems.
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Hey Victoria,
I’ve ashwangandha powder and tablets, it’s meant to help control cortisol levels etc. Too early to say if it’s any good yet.
Amitriptyline isn’t too bad and a bit less heavy than that mirtazapine.
I’ve come off HRT for now.
Just can’t get the dose right.
Will probably go back to it when that dreaded symptoms return!
Nas x
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Florrie, does the 200mg of utrogestan control your bleeding okay now?
How much Oestrogen is that in total you are on? 125mg?
Nas x
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Hi Nas, Victoria and Florrie,
Thankyou for your replies, they’re all very helpful and interesting. Dr Heather Currie the menopause specialist suggested I increase the utrogestan with the evorel 75 at my next review, but it was only in my case due to the carbamazepine and the fact it may cause less progesterone in my body, not the sleep aspect. I thought I’d try and see if I could perhaps bring it forward a bit, due to my lack of sleep, but looks like my GP won’t entertain the idea either way. She told me she didn’t know enough about it. I think I annoyed her when I said I’d already looked into it and she asked me if I had it in writing ( I do) but she didn’t want to see it.
I’ve tried 3 anti depressants and they were going to refer me to a specialist to see what could be prescribed for me as they’re not sure now what to try me on. I tried mirtazepine, but it gave me really bad and frightening nightmares, where I ended up screaming 😱 I will have a Google at amytryoteline …trouble is I’m already taking beta blockers as well for my sins ( bisoprolol) as I was recently diagnosed with paroxysmal atrial fibrillation 😳 which added to my anxiety issues. Medication has to interact with both this and carbamazepine ???this causes them additional problems.
I will look into the sleeping stuff you recommend Nas too.
Thanks All,
Teresa
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I can’t take amytryptiline safely, as it can ( rarely) cause Heart rhythm disorders… just not worth the risk for me as I seem to be prone to rate side effects with medicines :'(
I have to be careful with essential oils because if the carbamazepine, though I can do lavender. I have a sleep pillow spray so will dowse my pillows with that tonight 😳 the beta blockers don’t help…they stop me producing melatonin, though I am on a very low dose (2.5mg) and bisoprolol is supposed to be the best for sleep.
I haven’t heard of magnesium spray…where can you get it Nas and those tablets? The ones that are hard to pronounce ;)
Thankyou?
Teresa
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Ah that’s a shame you can’t take the Amitriptyline as I find they are much gentler than mirtazapine which just sedates me too much to function.
Better You do a magnesium spray containing essential oils of clary sage and chamomile I think. Holland and Barrett sell it, or TK Max.
Cbd tea is good for sleep. Dr Greenlove is the one I buy.
Ashwangandha is an Indian herb. You can buy it in tablet or powder form. It’s meant to regulate the hormones and the adrenals, reducing cortisol levels which give us the horrid anxiety at night/early morning.
As with all these things, what works for one, doesn’t for the other. It’s very hit and miss and you can end up spending a fortune in the process!
Hopefully things will settle for you on the 75 patch and you will regain your sleep 😴 xxx
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I have to be careful with essential oils because if the carbamazepine, though I can do lavender. I have a sleep pillow spray so will dowse my pillows with that tonight 😳 the beta blockers don’t help…they stop me producing melatonin, though I am on a very low dose (2.5mg) and bisoprolol is supposed to be the best for sleep.
Could I ask what essential oils you need to avoid? My son is on carbamazepine and I haven’t hear this before. THank you
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Hey Victoria,
I’ve ashwangandha powder and tablets, it’s meant to help control cortisol levels etc. Too early to say if it’s any good yet.
Amitriptyline isn’t too bad and a bit less heavy than that mirtazapine.
I’ve come off HRT for now.
Just can’t get the dose right.
Will probably go back to it when that dreaded symptoms return!
Nas x
Hi Nas,
You sound in a much better place, that’s great! The symptoms might not come back or might and be easier!
Amitriptyline has helped me out before, I’m glad you’re getting sleep at last!
Victoria.x
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Hi Nas, Victoria and Florrie,
Thankyou for your replies, they’re all very helpful and interesting. Dr Heather Currie the menopause specialist suggested I increase the utrogestan with the evorel 75 at my next review, but it was only in my case due to the carbamazepine and the fact it may cause less progesterone in my body, not the sleep aspect. I thought I’d try and see if I could perhaps bring it forward a bit, due to my lack of sleep, but looks like my GP won’t entertain the idea either way. She told me she didn’t know enough about it. I think I annoyed her when I said I’d already looked into it and she asked me if I had it in writing ( I do) but she didn’t want to see it.
I’ve tried 3 anti depressants and they were going to refer me to a specialist to see what could be prescribed for me as they’re not sure now what to try me on. I tried mirtazepine, but it gave me really bad and frightening nightmares, where I ended up screaming 😱 I will have a Google at amytryoteline …trouble is I’m already taking beta blockers as well for my sins ( bisoprolol) as I was recently diagnosed with paroxysmal atrial fibrillation 😳 which added to my anxiety issues. Medication has to interact with both this and carbamazepine ???this causes them additional problems.
I will look into the sleeping stuff you recommend Nas too.
Thanks All,
Teresa
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Hi Teresa,
Great news about being referred to the MS clinic and that things are continuing to improve since increasing to a 75 patch! Sounds like things are going in the right direction! So many women say that sleeping improved as estrogen levels increased.
I wouldn’t add anything new now until a doc tells you to, not even over the counter stuff, as it might chuck a spanner in the works.
Hopefully the MS will be in touch soon.
Victoria.x
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Bleeding is much less frequent on the 200 MH Utrogestan but not stopped completely. I’m going to continue to keep a record of this until my next Newson review in 3 months time, then will see what they advise. So yes my daily oestrogen dose is 125 between the patch and the gel. I think this is quite a high dose?
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Hi Florrie, it seems to take higher doses to sort sleeping and anxiety out. The NHS call 4 pumps a high dose, or that’s what they said to me on 4 pumps! Within reason I’m not sure dose matters as long as we can sleep function properly. After 4 months of tweaking I feel back to normal but would increase/decrease if symptoms return.
I hope the the Utrogestan keeps improving for you.
Victoria☀️
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Hi Teresa,
I hope you are feeling better already.
You asked about the 200mg utro dose. I'm taking this continuously now for some 3.5 months. Its unusual dose but my doctor prescribed it as I consistently felt better during the 'utro weeks' of my previous regime, and as she wanted to minimise fluctuations which in my case seemed to be the source of symptoms. I also tried 100mg conti, but it was too low a dose for me and I felt no effect from it.
I am much better now vs a few months ago, so I'm assuming utro is helping, though it can partly be due to increase in oestrogen as well. I find utrogestan particularly helpful with sleep -most nights sleeping now 7-8 hours with no interruptions-which is a major improvement and I'm very thankful for it.
Hope this helps. Let us know how you get on. xxx
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Ella, do you feel drowsy the following day on the 200mg utrogestan dose? I’m wondering whether the 200 would curb my bleeding issues on the patch
( although I’ve switched to sandrena now to see if I can get away with the bleeding on that !)
I may email my menopause clinic and enquire 🤞👍
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I've been taking 200 mg continuously for about 2.5 months. Both my estrogen and progesterone were increased at that time. I take it orally at bedtime. It has a fairly strong sedative effect for me and acts like a sleeping pill without any morning grogginess. I've been sleeping like a baby. I hope that effect lasts. The quality of my sleep has improved so much. It's nice to wake up feeling well rested and ready to start the day.
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Ella, do you feel drowsy the following day on the 200mg utrogestan dose? I’m wondering whether the 200 would curb my bleeding issues on the patch
( although I’ve switched to sandrena now to see if I can get away with the bleeding on that !)
I may email my menopause clinic and enquire 🤞👍
Hi Nas, I'm not feeling more drowsy than normally, as far as I can still remember what 'normal' felt ;) (I've always been a bit sleepy in the mornings and prefer not getting up very early). I had so many months with really bad sleep so sleeping now 7-8 hours without waking up feels like a blessing. I remember when I started with this dose I felt tired during the days but its difficult to say if it was the utrogestan or just simply the exhaustion. I've taken it now soon 4 mo and as said don't feel any negative effects.
Hope you're feeling well too! xx
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I took 200mg utrogeston nocte for three months with two pumps of oestrogel. It had a miraculous effect on my sleep. I had been unable to get off to sleep for hours and then was waking every hour with very light and unsatisfying sleep.
The problem was that I started to put on weight and feel bloated. I went back to 100mg utrogeston and had terrible sleep again. I seemed to be getting withdrawal symptoms. After research I found that progesterone acted on the GABA receptors in the brain, just like benzodiazepines. I decided to taper more slowly, so I pricked the utrogeston and squeezed out a small blob which I discarded. Every week I reduced the dose until I was removing three blobs from the capsule. I then switched to 100mg utrogeston taken vaginally. Due to the progesterone being absorbed into the blood stream rather than passing through the liver I estimate that I am getting 150mg utrogeston every day.
Six weeks on and I am getting some sleep. I am practising acceptance and gratitude for any sleep I get. Relaxation exercises are helping me to get off to sleep. It is not perfect, but better than it was.
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Thanks for all the info, I'm finding it really helpful!
Question: been advised by Gynae to increase Utrogestan from 100 to 200mg to stop bleeding - Has anyone gone the other way & lessened the estrogen to 1 pump & stayed with 100mg Utro? Am I right in thinking it's the estrogen causing the bleeding?
I'm 8 months in on continuous regime (2 pumps Estradiol + 100mg Utro), had scans & biopsy last week due to bleeding & womb thickening, awaiting results.
My first post & relieved to feel like I'm not alone in this :)
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Do you get on alright with 200mg continuously? I'm really struggling - day 11.
I take Utrogestan 200 mg daily continuously. This was the advice of Newson GP, to control frequent bleeding, which was investigated to exclude problems.
I also have Evorel 75 patch plus two pumps of oestrogel daily and it was this gel top up which finally resolved my sleep problems.