Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Jules on October 18, 2021, 09:16:17 AM
-
I've just finished an 8 weeks cycle of vagifem. It's been a game changer, noticed a difference fairly quickly. My doctor wants me to take a break and start again if symptoms return. I don't really want to have to let symptoms return but I'm also concerned about the associated risks. Has anyone got a different experience?
-
Vagifem should be used forever, otherwise symptoms will return. The minimum maintenance dose is twice a week once you have done the two week loadind dose. The dose is extremely low, is only absorbed locally and there are no risks. No endometrial protection is required for local oestrogen. Your GP has some very odd ideas. If he/she denies you further supplies, see another who is more up to date. Resource documents and support are available on the private Vaginal Atrophy Facebook support group.
JP x
:welcomemm:
-
Your GP is wrong. >:(. Another 1 who has little idea of the effect of VA. It is a small amount of HRT applied locally so he/she needed even thing about using too much!!!
Give the Practice a ring and ask for the prescription to be put onto repeat. I've had no problems, my GP recognised my symptoms and told me to pick up the prescription!
-
You haven’t said why your GP wanted you to try stopping. Do you have any particular risk factors?
I would disagree with the ladies who say there is NO risk.
Studies have shown that some estrogen is absorbed systemically and the estrogen only product is unopposed by progesterone. However only a very small amount is absorbed and for increased breast cancer risk people like me it is generally considered safer. Some studies have found no increase in cancer, while others have found an increase in cancer. Safest is said to be when younger like you and for a few years.
If you have had estrogen dependent cancer, you can take it, but it won’t be the first line of recommendation.
Due to having had a precursor to breast cancer I’ve gone off systemic HRT but am using vagifem.
-
She said it's the usual cycle. Break after the 8 weeks. She has prescribed more to start again if symptoms return. I was having some pelvic discomfort and this last week have had what I thought was thrush but it wasn't then a uti but now don't think it is. Taken antibiotics to no avail and just have frequent trips to the loo and irritation in my uretha which I've never had so now wondering whether the vagifem has caused it. It's driving me mad.
-
As the others have said. If you have no medical reason not to take it then you take it for ever. You don't want to get a return of the symptoms - that's the whole point of Vagifem!
Hurdity x
-
hereandthere - could you quote the sources you have found that information from?
I had treatment for oestrogen dominant breast disease and my GP never hesitated in precripting VA treatment. Quality of Life is important.
Jules - did U restart the treatment? A drop of oestrogen levels may cause the body to become dry, inside and out.
-
Morning Huridty!
-
hereandthere - could you quote the sources you have found that information from?
I had treatment for oestrogen dominant breast disease and my GP never hesitated in precripting VA treatment. Quality of Life is important.
Jules - did U restart the treatment? A drop of oestrogen levels may cause the body to become dry, inside and out.
No I finished the course last week. The doctor didn't know whether vagifem was causing the pelvic pain and the bladder irritation so advised me to stop for a break. I didn't suffer from either of these symptoms before I started on vagifem
-
What is the GP suggesting might be causation, have you been referred to a Specialist ? Pelvic pain should be investigated, bladder irritation is typical of atrophy. There isn't a 'usual cycle' for vaginal atrophy treatment :-\.
How is your bladder overall?
-
The risks are more with drinking alcohol etc / For most women the risks do not outweigh the benefits. There is risk to everything, being over weight, any drug you take etc
Local estrogen can cause irritation etc , as the tissues wake up. You can lower the dose and increase slowly to a level that suits. It is such a low dose. You can try estriol which is even lower and some ladies find this works for them . Or Ovestin works for some.
Maybe Join the vaginal atrophy group on FB . It is private .
See below fact sheet.
https://balance-website-prod.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/uploads/2021/09/Family-history-of-breast-cancer-Should-I-take-HRT.pdf
PM xx
-
Thanks everyone. Seeing the doc next week. It's odd that this is a new thing that I haven't had before. It could be coincidence but at first it felt like general irritation down below. Now it's definitely the urethra and driving me mad. Im going to the loo often and bladder was fine before. Only got UTI linked with sex and took prophylactic tabs for that which worked great. I thought I'd cracked it with the vagifem sex wise but now I'm troubled with this.
-
Hi,
the link below may be of interest
https://liveutifree.com/
PMxx
-
I find that when my bladder is irritated if I take 'nurofen', 2 capsules 3 times a day, it eases the need2P.
Pepperminty - there is no reference to low oestrogen in the 'causes'
VA mimics repeated urinary symptom-type infections really really well. All urine samples must be sent to a Lab to confirm the type of infection B4 ABs are prescribed. If the sample doesn't grow a bug, then symptoms R probably due to VA.
-
Thanks. A urine sample has gone to the lab. It's felt easier today so hoping whatever triggered it is subsiding.
-
Excellent read peppermint. Thx.
-
Update, I learned yesterday that my GP hadn't tested the sample, hadn't sent to the lab, had prescribed the same antibiotics that I was already taking and weren't working but hadn't told me on Friday so I didn't know until the pharmacy text me. After numerous attempts to contact the surgery I was asked to take in another sample. Tested this time, found infection and prescribed different antibiotics. 10 days of suffering. It's disappointing to get that after 8 weeks of vagifem as I've not had one for at least 3 years so the vagifem obviously hasn't helped. I'm having a review today though.
-
That is not good enough. Do U mean that the newer sample was sent to a Lab.? Dip stick shows nowt!
The Vagifem will help. Keep on with it. It needs to be used regularly to keep the whole vaginal area healthy and moist. The vagina cleanses itself until the oestrogen drops off which then allows bugs to settle.
Let us know how you get on?
-
Oh and treat your GP to a copy of "Me and My Menopausal Vagina", written by a member of the forum with the help of her daughter. I did immediately and handed 2 copies to our Surgery ;-)
-
That is not good enough. Do U mean that the newer sample was sent to a Lab.? Dip stick shows nowt!
The Vagifem will help. Keep on with it. It needs to be used regularly to keep the whole vaginal area healthy and moist. The vagina cleanses itself until the oestrogen drops off which then allows bugs to settle.
Let us know how you get on?
Yes the new sample sent to lab. Saw the doc today. I may be resistant to the antibiotics. Trying others and starting vagifem again. She did mention having breaks, that there's a small risk but it's worth it if it improves quality of life. I hope this pelvic pain either side is uti and nothing to do with the estrogen. She's got me worried mentioning the risk.
-
She should keep big gob shut! Ring and ask where she is getting her information from, she may be reading discounted research.
You won't be resistant to the ABs but the bug may well be. Get that 'vagifem' going, every night for as long as it takes. I swallow 2 Nurofen 3 times a day when my bladder feels irritated.
-
Is there anything about local estrogen and risks I can look at? She's quite a good doctor, one of the few I trust so always ask to see her. I guess she's repeating what's on the leaflet which is scarey enough. Yes, that's what I meant about the antibiotics, the bugs not me.
-
Have you read the 'bladder issues' and 'vaginal atrophy' threads on the Forum? There is also private Facebook group purely for vaginal atrophy.
You could send a personal e-mail to Dr Currie who began MM, there is a charge. Dr Currie deals with menopause on a daily basis. There is also a MM magazine, which I believe is these days on line.
-
Okay thankyou.
-
U R very welcome.
-
Hi, the risks on the leaflet are for HRT not local estogen - they just haven't changed it. Louise newson is campaigning for it. Local estrogen is equivalent to 1 hrt tablet a year, - there is a risk to everything we do - drinking coffee, alcohol , paracetomol , antidepressants - weighing up benefits
Go on the newson site and look for the leaflets and pod casts. Hope you feel better soon
PMXX
-
Hi, the risks on the leaflet are for HRT not local estogen - they just haven't changed it. Louise newson is campaigning for it. Local estrogen is equivalent to 1 hrt tablet a year, - there is a risk to everything we do - drinking coffee, alcohol , paracetomol , antidepressants - weighing up benefits
Go on the newson site and look for the leaflets and pod casts. Hope you feel better soon
PMXX
Thanks. I'm back to square one a bit. The problem of sex and UTIs. My prophylactic has worked up to now. This time it obviously didn't and the vagifem didnt help either. There was probably a reason why women of my age werent having sex in previous eras. Our attitude to life has changed but our bodies haven't. Think I'll join a convent ;)
-
Which prophylactic has been prescribed? MayB it's time to get rid of that and use the 'vagifem' every night for as long as necessary. I still require good old KY jelly and a gently, gently approach. There are other ways of sex without penetration :vibe: .......
You mention 'utis' - when did your urine samples last go to a Lab.? VA mimics symptoms really, really well. Did U read the threads on 'bladder issues' and 'vaginal atrophy' ?
-
I've only got the infection since I started vagifem. Sample went to the lab and showed infection.
-
I think that is is co-incidental. That's how I would see it,. What would you do next?
-
My lab result shows no infection so I've to have a physical exam tomorrow. I'm so worried.
-
Not all infections show on a lab result, you could still have a UTI.
Or it could be VA causing the symptoms . Have a look on the Newson website and join The closed vaginal atrophy group on Face Book. The ladies there are very knowledgeable on all down below issues and can point you in the right direction.
Vagifem can cause irritation. I would also go to a GUM clinic as they have test facilities on site as some vaginal conditions can cause an irritated bladder , as can stress. Cytolitic vaginosis can cause bladder issues.
Try not to worry. It will get sorted once they find the cause.
PMXX
-
Not all infections show on a lab result, you could still have a UTI.
Or it could be VA causing the symptoms . Have a look on the Newson website and join The closed vaginal atrophy group on Face Book. The ladies there are very knowledgeable on all down below issues and can point you in the right direction.
Vagifem can cause irritation. I would also go to a GUM clinic as they have test facilities on site as some vaginal conditions can cause an irritated bladder , as can stress. Cytolitic vaginosis can cause bladder issues.
Try not to worry. It will get sorted once they find the cause.
PMXX
I guess so. I'm worried about the fact I've used estrogen. I did say I had pelvic pain. I've no faith in doctors at present
-
Pelvic pain can be caused by lots of things and a tight pelvic floor ( which can be weak at the same time ) is one of them. Try googling how to relax the pelvic floor with breathing .
Why are you worried about using estrogen? The leaflet is for full HRT. They just haven't changed it. Such a small dose over a short time may cause irritation to the tissues , but highly unlikely to have done you any harm. Tell your GP what you are worried about and they hopefully will put your mind at rest. Better still look at all the pod casts on the Newson website over safety of local estrogen and HRT and that should put your mind at rest.
I hope you feel better soon.
PMXX
-
hereandthere - could you quote the sources you have found that information from?
I had treatment for oestrogen dominant breast disease and my GP never hesitated in precripting VA treatment. Quality of Life is important.
I haven’t been around as I guess busy working combined with being resigned to using the Vagifem inserts. I’m not convinced they do a lot, and on searching found there was a 2018 study finding severe symptom alleviation no better than a placebo. Still I continue after my cancer scare, as it’s still relatively low risk versus systemic HRT and I feel like when I miss too long I feel ‘discomfort pangs’ outside of sex.
Here is an example of what you were asking me for- why I said ‘no risk’ is wrong to say for vagifem.
https://www.menopause.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/2020-gsm-ps.pdf
-
I had examination and scan following a bleed after using vagifem for 4 months. All was normal but I've never resumed using it. My GP didn't follow up with me and I started using Replens which I've found helpful
-
Thanks Jules
I’ve run out of Vagifem and so far after a couple of weeks notice not one iota of a difference. I’m very interested to hear if anybody knows of any later more positive studies.
Replens seems expensive here in SA but I will see if I can maybe try a similar vaginal moisturizer.