Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Spangle1512 on August 25, 2021, 06:59:13 AM
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Hi.
Has anyone changed from oestrogel to lenzetto? And if so, how does it compare in dosage. I was on 3.5 pumps oestrogel and have been told to take 3 sprays of lenzetto. But according to the menopause doctors website 3 sprays is equivalent to 6 pumps. However another website contradicts that and says that one spray equals less that one pump of gel. It’s all very confusing. Many thanks.
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Hi
I’ve just been given a private prescription for lenzetto ( was on 75 patch which is 3 pumps of gel I think) and MS said start at 1 pump daily. Otherwise you are using a lot of spray all in one go and can’t really build up your doses?
Good luck 🤞
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Thank you so much for replying. That’s interesting. It’s a bit frustrating that all the information is conflicting. Effectively you’re patch was the same as my gel dose yet our specialists have both given us completely different advice with the spray.
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I know, it’s terribly confusing isn’t it.
My MS said initially one spray, which is effectively a 50 patch or two pumps.
I think it’s all to do with how we absorb different products, making a comparison pretty pointless I guess.
Let us know how you get on with the lenzetto.
I’m using up all my patches first ( for what it’s worth!)
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If your MS is saying a 50 patch is equivalent to one spray and 2 pumps, it definitely sounds like 3 sprays is way too many for me. I am going to drop down to 2 sprays for now as I was on 3.5 ish of gel. I’ll keep you posted, and vice versa if that’s ok.
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Yes keep us updated and I will do likewise .
Are you switching for ease of use, or absorption issues with the gel?
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I have been on Lenzetto for a while now, and initially moved over from 75 patches.
To start with the dose equiv was stated to be one spray was equiv to a 50mcg patch, but no way is that true, and my consultant is finding the same with his other patients.
I am now settled on 4 sprays a day, 2 in the morning & 2 PM. For me this seems similar to when i was on the 75 patch, but may need to go slightly higher yet.
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Hi, unfortunately cannot help with the original question on how Lenzetto compares vs gel.
But I'll be following this topic with interest, as I may also be facing similar switch in the next few of weeks, unless my condition significantly improves. I"m currently on 2 pumps of Estrogel and doing so and so.. not as bad as back in the spring but also not very well yet.
May I ask Spangle, why are you switching from Oestrogel and what are the symptoms you are hoping to solve with Lenzetto?
My issue with Estrogel is that I continue to have the feeling of absorption not being even, and that the dose is wearing off some 14-16 hours after applying. Hearing some very positive experiences on Lenzetto, I'm increasingly keen to try it out in case I still need to find an alternative solution.
Already trialled patch unsuccessfully and if I don't balance with Estrogel now, then I only have Lenzetto left to try before moving to oral, which I'd really wish to avoid.
Thanks for keeping us posted and good luck! xxx
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Hi PMDD,
So in reality the lenzetto is half the strength it’s meant to be against the patch abs gel then? 4 sprays equating to 75 patch? That means if I need more than 75, I will need at least 6 sprays??
God it’s so much trial and error to try and feel normal!
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@PMDD, did you increase to 100 patch from the 75, or go switch to lenzetto?
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I will also be following this as I have an appt with Newson clinic next week and am hoping to change to Lenzetto as I am on 6 pumps and clearly do not absorb well. The gel dries way too quickly especially in the morning! Good luck. I SJ be tried the patches but I didn’t absorb these at all!
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Hi
Yes I changed from Oestrogel which I was on for over 20 years to Lenzetto just over 3 weeks ago. I was prescribed one spray for a week then up up 2 sprays daily. I found 2 sprays way too much for me I was really jittery and felt very anxious and wired on 2 sprays and yet one was not quite enough. I therefore now have taped across the opening so I only get one third of one spray and have found that the one spray plus the one third spray seems to be suiting me well and I feel like I am levelling off. I was on 2 and a half pumpsof Oestrogel. I really like the Lenzetto it is so easy to use and for me absorbs better than the Oestrogel did x
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I will also be following this as I have an appt with Newson clinic next week and am hoping to change to Lenzetto as I am on 6 pumps and clearly do not absorb well. The gel dries way too quickly especially in the morning! Good luck. I SJ be tried the patches but I didn’t absorb these at all!
Hi Flan, interesting to hear this, though of course sorry to hear you also have issues with absorption. Do you feel that the gel is absorbing too quickly and then sort of wearing off, or you feel you don't get the effect at all?
For me it seems it absorbs even too well and then also leaves my body too soon. Of course there's no way of telling if this is really the case, but I feel clearly that in the evening after the dose I feel better and nowadays also sleeping quite OK most nights, but then in the morning part of the day start feeling symptoms return, especially around noon. I've tried also splitting the dose but then I felt I just created the same up and down rollercoaster twice a day, so now I'm back applying only once. I did notice that when I'm applying shortly after having taken a shower or bath, the absorption is even faster so now I'm trying to always leave couple of hours between washing the skin and applying the gel. How difficult can it really get... ::) Hope you'll get moved to Lenzetto and start feeling the benefit! I have my next discussion with gynae in 2 weeks time and if still not better, I'll ask for Lenzetto as well.
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I have been on Lenzetto for a while now, and initially moved over from 75 patches.
To start with the dose equiv was stated to be one spray was equiv to a 50mcg patch, but no way is that true, and my consultant is finding the same with his other patients.
I am now settled on 4 sprays a day, 2 in the morning & 2 PM. For me this seems similar to when i was on the 75 patch, but may need to go slightly higher yet.
Thank you. I think 75 patch is equivalent to 3 pumps of gel so perhaps I should stick to the 3 sprays for now and see what happens. My specialist said start at 3 and go up to 4 if necessary.
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Hi, unfortunately cannot help with the original question on how Lenzetto compares vs gel.
But I'll be following this topic with interest, as I may also be facing similar switch in the next few of weeks, unless my condition significantly improves. I"m currently on 2 pumps of Estrogel and doing so and so.. not as bad as back in the spring but also not very well yet.
May I ask Spangle, why are you switching from Oestrogel and what are the symptoms you are hoping to solve with Lenzetto?
My issue with Estrogel is that I continue to have the feeling of absorption not being even, and that the dose is wearing off some 14-16 hours after applying. Hearing some very positive experiences on Lenzetto, I'm increasingly keen to try it out in case I still need to find an alternative solution.
Already trialled patch unsuccessfully and if I don't balance with Estrogel now, then I only have Lenzetto left to try before moving to oral, which I'd really wish to avoid.
Thanks for keeping us posted and good luck! xxx
Hi
I’m switching because the gel takes so long to absorb, sometimes as much as half hour.
My original symptoms were anger, night sweats, fatigue and insomnia. The gel helped with the first two but not the insomnia or fatigue.
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I’m the complete opposite I believe the gel dried way til quickly for it to absorb properly? Hopefully more people will jump into this thread as I don’t see a lot about Lenzetto but what I do read is all positive 🤞
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I’m the complete opposite I believe the gel dried way til quickly for it to absorb properly? Hopefully more people will jump into this thread as I don’t see a lot about Lenzetto but what I do read is all positive 🤞
It’s fascinating the way they work so differently for different people.
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I think that sounds like a good plan, I initially started at 2 per day but my main symptom of low oestrogen was palpitations, and they quickly came back so I did increase every couple of weeks until these stopped. When I first increase, i do feel jittery for a few days until this levels off, but then im fine, so dont worry if this happens xx
I have been on Lenzetto for a while now, and initially moved over from 75 patches.
To start with the dose equiv was stated to be one spray was equiv to a 50mcg patch, but no way is that true, and my consultant is finding the same with his other patients.
I am now settled on 4 sprays a day, 2 in the morning & 2 PM. For me this seems similar to when i was on the 75 patch, but may need to go slightly higher yet.
Thank you. I think 75 patch is equivalent to 3 pumps of gel so perhaps I should stick to the 3 sprays for now and see what happens. My specialist said start at 3 and go up to 4 if necessary.
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Yes Ella you sound very similar to me! I split my dose and PM feel ok but AM I just feel so dreadful, this of course could be too much I have no idea but I’ve stick with it until my appt so the specialist has something to work with? It appears I absorb way too quickly?
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I have been in touch with the manufacturer of all the transdermals and looked at studies and from my own experience over the last 2 1/2 years, I’m also at Newson. Lenzetto is more like 1 pump of gel, Louise Newson also mentions it on one of her videos. We all absorb differently too, if you are lucky you may absorb 100% or if you are like me none or 10% or you may absorb gel but not a patch. It’s very much trial and error. The only thing you can do is give it a go.
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Thank you for that Floo! I like the idea of 3 sprays instead of 6 pumps which I fell I need more of anyway as I don’t absorb! Hoping Newson clinic can guide me in the right direction as I’m a bit lost with it all!
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Hi Floo36
Are you having difficulties with absorbing gel/spray? Any tips?
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I have been in touch with the manufacturer of all the transdermals and looked at studies and from my own experience over the last 2 1/2 years, I’m also at Newson. Lenzetto is more like 1 pump of gel, Louise Newson also mentions it on one of her videos. We all absorb differently too, if you are lucky you may absorb 100% or if you are like me none or 10% or you may absorb gel but not a patch. It’s very much trial and error. The only thing you can do is give it a go.
That’s really helpful, thank uou.
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Hello ladies, can I ask a slightly off-topic question here? I wonder how you find out that you absorb the gel too quickly, or conversely, aren't very good at absorbing at all? Do you somehow just know, or do you do tests to find out?
Just asking as I wouldn't have a clue whether I absorb too quickly or not very well, and seeing as how I've just upped my dose to four pumps a day (and not really noticed much difference so far) I wonder if I could be having problems with absorption.
Thanks xxx
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Hi Sazzle, I do have an absorption problem with transdermals. I ended up paying for a lot of private Estrogen tests to finally prove it because I’m peri the bloods always showed high but they were just fluctuations not my real reading, I finally got some low ones whilst on HRT. I never had improvements just got worse not matter how much I used, I was up to 12 pumps gel, 6 sprays, 2 patches, no change it was like I had applied nothing but the bloods finally proved it but it took over 2 years and a lot of suffering. The doctors at Newson have said on one of the videos that there can be a 10 fold difference in absorption between us. I am an unusual case I’m told so don’t be put off by my experience.
Transdermals are the safest option but for some of us taking oral Estrogen is the only other option and quality of life comes first for me.
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Floo which oral Oestrogen do you take please?
I don’t think I absorb transdermal too well either and have been told my MS that it so an option if I want to try.
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Body identical estradiol, I get either zumenon or Elleste solo.
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Thanks Floo, I am experiencing no improvement with the gel or Lenzetto now on 4 sprays Lenzetto a day but doesn't seem to be doing anything....back to MS in 2 weeks..
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Hello me again, any chance of someone answering my question above? Would be very useful for me to hear how you come to know that you do/don't absorb transdermal HRT.
I gather from Floo's post that tests indicated low absorption, is that how everyone has worked it out?
Thanks
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Floo: I’ve had several readings around 300 over the last 2 years and have been advised to increase hence being on 6 pumps! No improvement continue to have such rubbish days! Reading came back this week at 1156, I’m hoping this is a fluctuation but I did panic and reduced to 5 yesterday and had the worst day I’ve had in a long time! Palpitations all day until bed time!
Lamplighter: I think it’s all trial and error and mine unfortunately is all error at the minute! My appt with MS is Thursday! I feel like I need to reset?
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Lamplighter, as I understand things, if you are post menopausal, then your hormones will likely to have flattened out. So, if you are on HRT and PM, but still experiencing symptoms, then it is reasonable to request a blood test to check absorption of that particular HRT. So you could start a patch, stay on it for 6 months, still experience symptoms, get a blood reading and if it’s low, either increase or switch product.
When you reach the maximum licensed dose of your HRT and still no improvement, then it’s time to see a MS for guidance.
If peri menopausal, blood tests in my view are pretty pointless, due to daily fluctuations. So best to titrate the HRT dose to your symptoms only.
They also say you need to give each dose increase, 3 months to see if you experience improvement, as that is how long it can take for some symptoms to be relieved ( for some women). So in theory, if you want or need HRT, you could spend a huge chunk of your life, experimenting! :(
Some need huge doses of O, others don’t.
Trial and error plus a ton of patience ( which most of us don’t have!)
😀
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Thanks Flan :). Good luck with your appointment xxx
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Thanks Nas too :).
Wow it's not straightforward is it? Ugh to the length of time needed for the trial and error - and as you say, patience can be in short supply when you're suffering menopausal symptoms. There's a design fault in here somewhere :bang:
By the way, what does MS stand for?
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Definitely a design fault Lamp.
My dream ( other than to win the lotto!) is to walk into Boots, ask for HRT and know that it will work for EVERY blooming symptom, end of!
MS = Menopause specialist
Once you reach the maximum licensed dose for a HRT product, the GP will USUALLY refer you to a specialist. If lucky, a 6 month wait, if unlucky, an eternity. Or you can go private as some ladies have (Newson clinic etc)
😀
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Thanks for that NAS.
And good luck with Lotto, you probably have more chance of winning that than finding an HRT that addresses every symptom, or even one that works without all the faffing around we have to do ::)
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Flan I would ignore blood results in peri because if you have symptoms still you are not on enough Estrogen. If I had not had blood tests and just went on symptoms I would have not wasted 2/12 years being really ill. I kept being told my Estrogen is normal when it wasn’t because the blood test results were high fluctuations and that’s why I had to prove it but I struck lucky with the low one, I may never have got a low reading as it’s like chasing a moving target.
I’m also using the 2 weeks rule for increasing dose because some symptoms like flushes and palpitations should go within a few weeks on the right dose. I will increase my dose in 4 days if my palps and flushes haven’t gone then it still may need tweaking if the multitude of other symptoms haven’t gone.
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Thank you so much for replying. That’s interesting. It’s a bit frustrating that all the information is conflicting. Effectively you’re patch was the same as my gel dose yet our specialists have both given us completely different advice with the spray.
Some say Lenzetto is stronger than a pump of gel. I don't think it is. I use 3 sprays a day. I don't absorb gel or patches very well. I love the spray. I was on a 125 patch, but as I said I didn't absorb it and I do seem to absorb the spray. I'd start like for like if I were you.
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Hi
I’ve just been given a private prescription for lenzetto ( was on 75 patch which is 3 pumps of gel I think) and MS said start at 1 pump daily. Otherwise you are using a lot of spray all in one go and can’t really build up your doses?
Good luck 🤞
That's pretty dreadful advice. You are going to suffer doing that. I use 3 sprays a day. I was on 125 patch but didn't absorb the patch so it's no guide really. I do absorb the spray. That will be the deciding factor. I'd definitely start on 2 sprays if I were you and look to move up if it doesn't feel enough.
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My issue with Estrogel is that I continue to have the feeling of absorption not being even, and that the dose is wearing off some 14-16 hours after applying. Hearing some very positive experiences on Lenzetto, I'm increasingly keen to try it out in case I still need to find an alternative solution.
Already trialled patch unsuccessfully and if I don't balance with Estrogel now, then I only have Lenzetto left to try before moving to oral, which I'd really wish to avoid.
That happened to me. All the gel rushed me at the start and wore off too fast. My blood levels consistently tested low but I couldn't stand more than 4 pumps of gel. I tried patches, they felt more even but still levels were low. I love Lenzetto. I am currently on 3 sprays a day and can take it all in one go in the morning and feel fine all day. I prefer 4 sprays a day and get nice high numbers on it, but I'm trying to work out what's giving me such horrible fluid filled feet at present so I lowered my spray. I tried 2 sprays a day for 3 weeks. Felt so low and flat but feet were the same so I'm back on 3 sprays now and might go back to 4 at some point if I feel I need too later on. Got to find out why my feet are so swollen first.
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Floo! I think your right but am so unsure what to do! I have had another awful day with palpitations since reducing to 5! My appt can’t come quick enough! So lost in this journey! Like you I feel I have wasted over 2 years of my life and still in this awful situation! Will be increasing again tomorrow to see if it will settle a little
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Hello, anyone else changed from gel to Lenzetto? I'm just about to change back. The gel was in short supply, so I was moved onto Lenzetto, but ever since all my symptoms have ramped up. I started off on 2 pumps, then ramped up to 4, but it made no difference. I was formally on 2 or 3 pumps of the gel, which controlled most of my symptoms. I don't really understand why the spray would be less effective though. Shame as it was simpler and quicker to use.
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Flan I would ignore blood results in peri because if you have symptoms still you are not on enough Estrogen. If I had not had blood tests and just went on symptoms I would have not wasted 2/12 years being really ill. I kept being told my Estrogen is normal when it wasn’t because the blood test results were high fluctuations and that’s why I had to prove it but I struck lucky with the low one, I may never have got a low reading as it’s like chasing a moving target.
I’m also using the 2 weeks rule for increasing dose because some symptoms like flushes and palpitations should go within a few weeks on the right dose. I will increase my dose in 4 days if my palps and flushes haven’t gone then it still may need tweaking if the multitude of other symptoms haven’t gone.
Floo do you mind if I ask you what dose of oral hrt you are using and if you are finding it to be enough? I don’t think transdermal works for me but don’t think a 2mg tablet is likely to be enough. So I’ve been keen to find someone who was taking high doses transdermally and then switched to oral. I’m on 200 patches and have felt terrible for the entire 9 months I’ve been using them.
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3 sprays of lenzetto os the equivalent to two pumps of Oestrogel. That is a fact despite all the varying nonsense online.