Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Gilla999 on August 13, 2021, 06:55:55 AM
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I'm on two sprays of Lenzetto and it has generally worked wonders for me, however i am on slightly too high a dose and it's causing some issues for me. I tried cutting from two sprays to one spray after my period, but that was a nightmare - I literally had withdrawal similar to what I have if I reduce my antidepressants too quickly, I felt seriously ill (didn't have a return of my symptoms, just felt very, very ill). I'm guessing there isn't any way to reduce the dose more slowly, but just wondered if anyone had any suggestions?
I am considering switching to Oestrogel as it's easier to taper, but it just seems a shame when I've got on so well with Lenzetto!
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Why do you think that you are on too high a dose :-\
It may B that you choose to drop a dose at the 'wrong' time of the cycle?
There isn't any advice on the 'Lenzetto' info. - I did a google.
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Just to clarify Gilla- the two sprays, is that one spray twice a day or two sprays together?
If it’s two together then the first thing I’d try is to split it one morning and one 12 hours later. X
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Although my original symptoms (night sweats and horrendous insomnia) have disappeared since starting Lenzetto, I put on a stone in the space of two weeks (!!) have horrendous and persistent constipation, painful boobs and abnormally high cortisol (all of which are symptoms of too much estrogen). Also just before ovulation I am feeling completely manic and hyper and then having a couple of days where I don't sleep until ovulation has passed, a pattern which is very out of the ordinary for me.
I feel like my estrogen is just a little bit too high and would like to try to lower just a bit and see how I get on with it. CLKD I also wondered if I dropped at the wrong time in my cycle - I am massively sensitive to stuff like that! Perhaps I'll try dropping in the second half of my cycle when my own estrogen is still rising, rather than at the very start when it's already at its lowest.
Salad by two sprays I meant two sprays at once in the morning. The thing is separating them will be still cause me to have the same level of circulating estrogen... I just want to find a way to try 1.5 sprays (which is 3 pumps of oestrogel) but it does seem a bit impossible on Lenzetto! Thanks ladies for your replies xx
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MayB put 'lenzetto' in2 the search box 2 C if any threads pop up? Make notes ;)
It's difficult to get a balance sometimes, it's Trial and Error which can be so tiring :-\
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So true! And every change you have to really give a cycle. I also considered whether taking Utro orally (instead of vaginally) might help balance the estrogen out but the next-day tiredness from taking it orally is overwhelming for me... I don't know how other ladies do it!!
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Take 1 spray every day and 1 spray every other day. That’s effectively dropping the dose by half a spray.
For me Lenzetto is the best of all oestrogens. It’s great. But fine tuning is harder.
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Totally agree on the Lenzetto Sue! I wondered if I did the alternative days whether that would mean I was getting an erratic dose of estrogen and could cause problems? I'm not sure if it's that "reactive" or not per day.
I have for now decided to take up half of my Lenzetto with parcel tape and see how that works ;D
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I don’t have any tips about the spray, but I wanted to say I feel much the same when I feel like my estrogen is getting too high. I lose a little weight and poop so much better when I decrease the dosage, even temporarily. I feel as though the estrogen builds up in me and I’m feeling the need for breaks for fine tuning. But I know I do need some amount. Tricky to walk that line (but still so much better than it once was—fine tuning is a good place to be!).
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Thank you Shannon, that's actually really helpful to know as I'm still new to all of this and going on my own gut feeling. And as you say there has been a whole world of improvement since this time last year, so I'm very grateful just to be fine tuning now.
My sense is that when I tried to halve my dose and drop to 1 spray of Lenzetto last month it wasn't the dose itself that was too low per se, it was more the withdrawal from the high amount of estrogen I've been pumping my system with over the last 7 or 8 months (prior to starting Lenzetto I had tried the contraceptive Pill and did 5 packs back-to-back). I am super sensitive to stuff so it's not a huge surprise (I felt really, very ill!)
On the digestion - I've noticed that when my period arrives it gets temporarily better for a few days and it's such a relief - this coincides with the time when my own estrogen naturally drops, so I'm certain the estrogen is to blame (it's also a known side effect of estrogen).
I'm going to give taping the spray up a go and hope I can wean myself down a bit more gradually. Thanks all for your help, much appreciated ;D
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Hi Gilla999
I have just switched to Lenzetto after being on Oestrogel for over 20 years. I was told to start at one spray then after a week increase it to two. Two sprays were way too high for me I was almost on the ceiling so I have taped off 2/3rds of the Lenzetto opening and am on one spay plus 1/3rd of a spray. I feel I am starting to level out on that as having worked out the equivalent dose I was on when taking Oestrogel this seems to be the best way to replicate it. I have 2 applicators of Lenzetto on the go - one for the full spray and the other one is the taped off one which delivers 1/3rd of a spray. Hope that helps xxx
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Thanks so much Pippa, Scampi told me this idea of yours and it's working a treat! I have two sprays on the go as well, with one being a third taped off. Today is day 4 and so far so good, but I know last time when I tried to reduce from 2 to 1 sprays that it didn't hit me until about 7-10 days in. Really hoping I get on ok with this. Thanks for coming up with the genius idea :D
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Gilla999
Oh that's brilliant I am so glad it was helpful and so far appears to be working well. I thought I might write to the manufacturer about this actually as I am sure we are not alone in needing to be able to taper the dose to suit us. Maybe another extra lid could be put in the pack that could be adjusted somehow for those of us who need to have some smaller doses. I am sure it's possible. Fingers crossed it goes on working for you. I am beginning to feel loads better on the slightly lower dose too. Yay xxx
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I agree, I read a lot of people who like me are fans of Lenzetto, but the one drawback for me is the inability to taper your doses (or even just have a smaller dose like you can with a 25mcg patch for example).
Can I ask how long it took you to start feeling a bit better Pippa? Do you plan to stick on the dose you're on now?
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Hi Gilla999
Yes I do plan to stick to the dose I am for now (1 full spray and 1/3 rd of one spray) until I am reviewed by the Consultant in October. She did prescribe 2 sprays but that literally had me on the ceiling with headaches, anxiety and feeling really twitchy and hot. This dose seems, so far to suit me better. I am still getting some hot flushes but much less so...I am definitely sleeping better too at long last. I have been on Lenzetto for 18 days now and so much prefer it to Oestrogel. It seemed to kick in very quickly as I was expecting several weeks to stabilise but I am definitely starting to feel much more level now already. It may be that in the future I might need to increase it but I am due to have another oestrogen level blood test done one week before my review so it will be very interesting to see what the levels are now. So hope you are starting to feel better too xxx
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Thank you ladies for this post. My anxiety was going through roof and so was my ragging about nearly everything. From today I will tapper down as I was increasing thinking that was answer. Yesterday I realised I was shaky and anxious most in morning after using 3 sprays but after lunch was feeling calmer. So that must be when spray is wearing off. So glad to find post. :)
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Always nice to hear a post has helped!
What I've learnt is that every woman is so unique and while for some increasing E is the answer, I've observed others here and people I know really struggle with too high E but not realise that's the cause.
From my own personal experience I would try reducing slowly... any quick moves and you might cause the opposite problem, even if it is too high at the moment. Good luck xx
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Just a quick tip if you're suffering with constipation. Try eating kiwi fruit, one every other day should help. Apparently progesterone (and I know we're talking about oestrogen but I'm applying a peri woman's logic here!) causes slow transit, which basically means that your system works ok till it gets to the last bit, and then transit through the lower bowel slows right down. Drinking lots doesn't help by that point so you need to eat something that retains the moisture and has some fibre, and kiwi fruit seems to be the answer.
I tend to eat a satsuma every other day and that usually helps, but when I changed from Femoston to utrogestan and Lenzetto I suffered really badly with a slow bum, as I tend to coquettishly describe it..... I saw something about slow transit and kiwi fruit on a Facebook menopause group and tried it, and it works. Worth a go unless you dislike or are allergic to kiwi fruit.
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Thanks for the tip! I'm actually going back to the specialist tomorrow because this is still such a problem for me since starting HRT. The only relief I get is about 4 days when my period arrives and briefly after ovulation. Outside of that I don't feel the urge to go at ALL - it's really quite bad.
There's a lot of research coming out saying high estrogen and not progesterone is the culprit, as there are estrogen receptors in the gut which get turned off by high amounts of estrogen, reducing the motility causing slow transit. But whether it's estrogen or progesterone I have tried everything under the sun you can think of (food and drugs!) and none make any difference but I have NOT tried Kiwi fruit so I will certainly be giving that a go especially as I love Kiwi fruit! Thanks very much for the suggestion ;D
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No problem, tips are always worth passing on.
Good luck on all counts!
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Gilla, don't want to derail this thread but wanted to say I sympathise with what you say here . . .
Outside of that I don't feel the urge to go at ALL - it's really quite bad.
There's a lot of research coming out saying high estrogen and not progesterone is the culprit, as there are estrogen receptors in the gut which get turned off by high amounts of estrogen, reducing the motility causing slow transit.
Yes, a heartsink moment when I first found articles a while ago implicating oestrogen (as well as has long been known - progesterone) in slow transit, confirming my own experience that oestrogen's slowing effects on gut motility are dose dependent. What I don't understand - though the hypothyroid-HRT complication is probably a factor - is why only some of us are badly affected. A large number of women on here take quite hefty doses of oestrogen yet only a few report it seizes up their gut, making it resistant to all known management strategies & a lot of creative thinking :o ;D.
I hope you find the kiwi fruit help.
Wx
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Wrensong I could not agree with you more. I have also wondered why lots of women don't seem to be as affected by it and yet I am so sensitive to the issue and it's literally like all of the muscles/nerves which exist in the digestive tract are completely switched off. Through my own experiments over the last 9 months I am absolutely certain that the cause is my HRT. I also used to suffer from it to a lesser extent in the very early stages of my Peri when my own natural estrogen soared every month in the last two weeks of my cycle (so it's not just HRT related - even my own estrogen causes it when it's high).
I am a bit lost with how to treat it as I have tried every possible solution I have been given or read about.... Except for Kiwi fruit!! So onwards with that I go!
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I suffered with constipation for years and couldn't find a cause. This was well before being peri and also whilst not taking any hormones via contraception.
It coincided with living alone for the first time and having what I felt was a high fibre diet.
Years later and it eventually settled down a bit, but the real game changer for me was eating a satsuma every other day.
I alternate between cereal and fruit for breakfast one day, and toast the next. If we have bacon sandwiches or poached egg on toast at the weekend and I forget to have a satsuma I notice the difference.
During the first month on the utro and Lenzetto I was more bunged than I had been for years, so I tried kiwi fruit as well as satsumas and it worked for me.
We are all different but sharing ideas is the one thing we do well I think! :-)
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I feel your pain Gilla & yes to our own hormones also affecting gut function in fertile years. If you are not yet postmenopause the problem can be even harder to manage.
Evangelista, glad to know you've found something that works for you. We are all different but sharing ideas is the one thing we do well I think!
I agree & this forum is a Godsend for that.
Wx
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Hi, just jumping on the Lenzetto train! I was on Oestrogel and made the leap across to Lenzetto just before Christmas. I was on one pump of gel and the GP told me to take one spray of Lenzetto, which I duly have done and so many of my symptoms returned. I have been really struggling so re mortgaged my house (Only half joking) and paid for a video consult with one of Dr Naomi Potter’s dr’s at Menopause Care. I had the call this morning. She told me that because Lenzetto is still fairly new to the UK market they are still trying to work it all out but that whereas when it came onto the market it was thought that one spray equalled two gel pumps they are now thinking that one spray can equal as little as half a pump of gel. She said it’s individual but most likely that one spray is roundly the same as half to one pump of gel. She said my symptoms had come back because I had effectively reduced my already low dose to even lower.
So, I have upped my dose from today to two sprays but reading the comments on here I thought I would mention it because if two sprays of Lenzetto is equal to 1.5 to 2 pumps of gel (has my maths worked that out correctly?) then it could be your symptoms are due to too little oestrogen rather than too much.
I’m Uber sensitive to these things too so I’m already concerned that two pumps are going to be too much but when I asked her what to expect, she said I may get headaches and sore boobs for the first 7-10 days of dose increase but that should settle and by two weeks my levels should be more settled.
I also asked if I should split the dose and she said no. Because I would still be getting the same amount of oestrogen and Lenzetto is known to be good at spreading across the day - better than gel for that.
I don’t know if any of the above is right but have done a lot of research myself and some of the things she said was news to me - the spray dosage for one. She also said I should be using 200mg Utrogestan vaginally which was news to me and when I queried it she asked if it was the Newson website I’d read a differing amount on. She said she worked there last year but the BMS has said it’s looking more likely that a higher dose of Progesterone is needed vaginally. This doesn’t make any sense to me and because I hate Utrogestan I would rather pay for an annual ultrasound scan to check my lining thickness than go through double the dose of utrogestan.
Sorry, long reply but hopefully helpful?
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Evangelista yes on the sharing of tips!! You never know when it's going to help someone out. I am so grateful for all the information that has been shared on this site, I'd have been lost without it. A satsuma and a kiwi every day for me it is then!
Dotty I agree on the dosing not being clear. From what I'm observing it really seems to vary among women - some women seem to absorb some products better than others. I started on Estradot and I was still highly symptomatic, it just didn't work for me. As soon as I switched to Lenzetto on the same dose it worked almost immediately. All a bit of trial and error with a bit of misery for us thrown in until we get there!
In case it helps, according to Louise Newsom's new revised data sheet, 1 spray of Lenzetto is equivalent to 1-1.5 doses of Oestrogel / 2-3 sprays Lenzetto are equivalent to 2 doses Oestrogel.
https://balance-menopause.com/uploads/2021/10/Equivalent-doses.pdf
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Hello again. So I’ve had the most awful 10 days. it started with some of my symptoms coming back like really itchy skin, headaches, chills and lethargy and kept increasing until I become so dopey I could barely keep my eyes open - had to stop driving. I have felt SO unwell, like all of my symptoms and more came crashing back at once with a huge smack in the face. It felt like I was in a sudden withdrawal. Both my GP and Meno Specialist said it sounded like either I had had a huge drop in oestrogen myself and/or the spray wasn’t working properly. I have hesitantly started back on two sprays of a new bottle but my meno doc said to go back to three sprays for a few days, if that wasn’t working to go up to four sprays and if I felt worse to go down to two! I am too scared to go back to three let alone try four incase it was because it was too much oestrogen rather than too little. I’m not getting a blood test for another 10 days so I don’t know for sure what’s going on but I’ve been on two sprays for 3 days now and yesterday morning I was so shaky and anxious with a racing heart I had to go to the doctor to get my heart checked. Is this too much spray or too little? I just need to feel well again. I don’t know how many sprays to take today. I also don’t know how to tape off the spray - just can’t work out how to do it. Any advice would be be much appreciated.
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Sorry, I know this is an old thread! How do you manage to tape over the lenzetto spray? Do you tape right over half of the nozzle? Or over the round but that goes against your arm?
😊😊
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Hey Joeyjo - I used masking tape (as it's wider than sellotape) and placed it over the round part that you put against your arm and then sort of wrapped both ends of the masking tape messily around the longer bit. It's quite easy to do. Does that make sense? Happy to send you a pic if you want to PM me your email address!