Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: EllaAurora on July 03, 2021, 01:29:43 PM
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Hello ladies,
seeking your advice and experiences as I'm likely heading towards a change of regime which, frankly, makes me terrified :o -even though I've felt very bad on the current regime.
I got prescription now to move to Estradot 50 patch, as I haven't been able to find a balance with Oestrogel. While the gel has sorted out most of the physical symptoms that suddenly became overwhelming in March (adrenaline surges, tachycardia, arrhythmias, insomnia), mentally I've felt really bad with anxiety, mood swings and just generally not being able to relax even for a minute -feeling like super wired all the time (except when sleeping which I can thankfully do with the support of Utrogestan).
It feels like the gel is absorbing too quickly and I get a peak 1-2 hours after applying it (often feeling the 'rush' from it and couple of times even getting a full anxiety attack after the gel). I'm assuming the anxiety and mood issues arise from the constant fluctuation of estradiol. The hope is now with the Estradot patch that I'd get a more even absorption.
I know we are all different but it would be so helpful to hear your experiences from switching from gel to patch. Do you feel better with patch and what to expect generally. Any issues e.g. with adhesion. All experiences and support so welcome!!
Thanks so much ladies! xx
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Oh my goodness - were the same aren’t we!!!! I’m constantly wired and realised last night Ella that the teatime application of my second x2 pumps may be keeping me awak as I’m all wired and jittery in bed and waking not feeling well with migraine too!!!! I’m getting patches next week 50mg Estrodot! I’m also nervous very much!! In meantime have to decide how to cope whilst waiting as could be middle next week by time my go gets around to prescribing ! I feel awful. Have you still been applying your gel
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I tried thr gel for 18 months and hated the stuff. I was wired, jittery and amxious all the time.
I then switched to the patch, much calmer, but started bleeding! Bleeding got too much, so I swapped back to the gel.
Same thing, jittery and anxious.
So, have reverted back the patch and am paying to see a private specialist in 2 weeks time, to see what adjustments can be made re the progesterone part, to see if the bleeding can be controlled somehow.
Trial and error comes to mind, with a shed load of patience.
I really want the patch to work minus the bleed as I personally feel more balanced with a continous dose of 0.
Best of luck.
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Oh my goodness - were the same aren’t we!!!! I’m constantly wired and realised last night Ella that the teatime application of my second x2 pumps may be keeping me awak as I’m all wired and jittery in bed and waking not feeling well with migraine too!!!! I’m getting patches next week 50mg Estrodot! I’m also nervous very much!! In meantime have to decide how to cope whilst waiting as could be middle next week by time my go gets around to prescribing ! I feel awful. Have you still been applying your gel
Hi Margaret, sounds indeed very similar! I haven't been able to understand why I'm reacting to the gel this way, especially as initially it worked nicely for me. When I started last year, I managed with 1 pump and had no reactions. Then I got additional meno symptoms and tried increase the gel and suddenly started getting these adverse reactions and it feels all the time oestrogen is either too low, or too high, but never quite stable. ???
The mental symptoms are the worst, strangely the physical ones are being controlled quite well now despite the rollercoaster.
I've still been applying the gel, but intend to try the patch in the next coming days. I needed to again cut back the gel and during recent days have only applied 1.5 pumps. Really tiring process, hopefully one day we'll report here some success.
Good luck to you & let us know how you get on!
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Hi Ella and Nas! Thank you for responding ! Oh nas - I’m sure Ella will agree - this is a relief to onow I’m not alone nor imagining it not overreacting and that. I really DO feel unwell on this gel !!! I do hope the patches work again for you Nas. They will! Maybe the bleed was a once off and won’t happen again next time? I do hope it all settles! Can I ask how many pumps you were on previously of gel? I’m On 4 as didnt feel amazing on 2 and 3 and I split them 2 morn and 2 teatime but noticed it seems after the teatime application a few hours after and bedtime I feel awful wired and jittery and bad headache and have been waking with same !!! I reduced today to 3 pumps - not sure if the right thing but was either that or stop altogether which didn’t want to do in case worse! Either 4 pumps was too much or the evening application was not good for me but either way I don’t feel well and know somethings wrong. I feel like I’m feeding my body more of something not suiting it! I’m a bit apprehensive I still took a pump just earlier and again evening and may start to feel wired again bedtime and not sleep and wake with migraine but I felt so stuck and didn’t want to make too any changes too fast!! I will see how I am tomorrow.
Ella - are you on 4 pumps yes? When and where are you applying x
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I tried thr gel for 18 months and hated the stuff. I was wired, jittery and amxious all the time.
I then switched to the patch, much calmer, but started bleeding! Bleeding got too much, so I swapped back to the gel.
Same thing, jittery and anxious.
So, have reverted back the patch and am paying to see a private specialist in 2 weeks time, to see what adjustments can be made re the progesterone part, to see if the bleeding can be controlled somehow.
Trial and error comes to mind, with a shed load of patience.
I really want the patch to work minus the bleed as I personally feel more balanced with a continous dose of 0.
Best of luck.
Hi Nas, sorry to hear about your struggle. Your experience with the gel sounds very similar to mine, after I needed to start increasing the dose due to new meno symptoms appearing. During the time I managed with 1 pump it was fine, since then I haven't had a normal stable day in 4 months :o
Did your doctor ever have any possible explanation to your reaction to the gel? I've mentioned this now to 2 different gynaes, but neither of them have really had any explanation to this. I guess its just that some people are super sensitive to this stuff and especially the fluctuations.
Regarding the bleed -are you taking progesterone continuously? Good to hear in any case that your experience with patch is more positive otherwise, so as long as the bleed is sorted you're going to be OK!
By the way, when you moved to the patch after gel, how quickly did you notice the difference? Did you have any issues with adjusting the dose or you got the right patch dose from the start?
Thanks for your reply, really appreciate it! And wishing you good luck to the specialist visit soon! xx
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Hi Ella and Nas! Thank you for responding ! Oh nas - I’m sure Ella will agree - this is a relief to onow I’m not alone nor imagining it not overreacting and that. I really DO feel unwell on this gel !!! I do hope the patches work again for you Nas. They will! Maybe the bleed was a once off and won’t happen again next time? I do hope it all settles! Can I ask how many pumps you were on previously of gel? I’m On 4 as didnt feel amazing on 2 and 3 and I split them 2 morn and 2 teatime but noticed it seems after the teatime application a few hours after and bedtime I feel awful wired and jittery and bad headache and have been waking with same !!! I reduced today to 3 pumps - not sure if the right thing but was either that or stop altogether which didn’t want to do in case worse! Either 4 pumps was too much or the evening application was not good for me but either way I don’t feel well and know somethings wrong. I feel like I’m feeding my body more of something not suiting it! I’m a bit apprehensive I still took a pump just earlier and again evening and may start to feel wired again bedtime and not sleep and wake with migraine but I felt so stuck and didn’t want to make too any changes too fast!! I will see how I am tomorrow.
Ella - are you on 4 pumps yes? When and where are you applying x
Hi Margaret, sounds like the 4 pumps was too much for you, and probably good to reduce. Though as I understood also the 3 didn't really help you at all. Its all so confusing ::)
The maximum I've had was 3 pumps (2 evening/1 morning), but that was clearly too much and I quickly went down. But then again the lower dose doesn't control symptoms. A few nights after I reduced woke up again at 3 am ??? I've also tried splitting am/pm but applying twice a day didn't seem to work for my system either -felt super wired after the morning dose with anxiety lasting into afternoon.
Really hoping the gel would work better -for both of us!! Take care xx
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Hi again Ella! Yes - even 3 in the past didn’t work. Time for me to get off the gel and the patch! Only think is my Meno doc said to start on 50mg then can increase if need be and we’re gonna try Estrodot. Feels like going back to square one and a waste of 8 long and not great weeks on this gel 🤷🏻♀️
I hope you too find your balance! X
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Thanks Margaret, hope you're feeling better today!
I moved yesterday evening to Estradot 50 mcg Patch and will report progress here, as it may be of interest to others too.
Transitioning from gel to patch was uneventful and I didn't get any reactions (like the ones I got when trying to increase the gel).
I did wake up once during the night, but managed to get back to sleep quickly. In the morning perhaps felt a bit jittery and waking up with fast heartbeat, but not feeling anxiety, just somehow super alert. Compared to most of the mornings lately, this has been a really good one. But of course its Day 1, so way too early to draw any conclusions as it could just simply be a coincidence. ;)
Wishing all ladies a lovely Sunday. xx
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Hello Ella Aurora.
I will be following your story with interest as I am wondering if my ongoing mood issues are due to fluctuations caused by Oestrogel. I am post meno and split my dose between morning and bedtime applications.
When I mentioned patches to my meno doctor recently she said it was best to stick to my current regime especially as the gel was body identical. My view is that if something isn't working then changing to a different product is always worth a try so I am thinking of raising the subject again.
I take it that your patch is Oestrogen only and that you are still using Utrogestan for the progesterone part of your HRT?
I'm pleased to see that your first morning has been positive and I hope you see more improvement soon.
As a sufferer of the jitters and anxiety I know exactly how you feel and how exhausting these symptoms can be.
Take care.
K.
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Hi Kathleen,
thanks for your reply.
Yes, I'm using Oestrogen only patch, as I wished to continue with Utrogestan which has worked well for me -especially helping with the sleep.
The estradiol in the patch is also body identical, so its a good idea to discuss with your doctor about the possibility to evaluate other options, if the gel is not working for you. There is also another gel option (Sandrena), which I understand from other ladies has a bit different consistency, so maybe that could be an option too?
It's a tricky balance, on one hand we should give the existing regime time to settle and not make too quick changes, but on the other, if it's not working then at some point we have to just try something different. I got to the point with Oestrogel where I simply couldn't find a balance. It felt like there was a high oestrogen peak 1-2 hours after applying, but then the dose was wearing off too quickly and I couldn't get this fixed even by splitting the dose. My own gut feeling is (of course I cannot know for sure) that it was these constant fluctuations that were causing the trouble.
It that indeed was the case, then the Patch should help, but time will tell. :)
Take care and let us know how you get on! xx
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Hi,
It's been a real rollercoaster if I am brutally honest (and still is!).
I was on 4/5 pumps of the gel daily with nightly progesterone. The only thing it relieved, was the flushes.
I felt wired and irritated the whole time I was on the gel and this would last until the end of the day, when I started to calm down.
I hated the faff with the application and drying, as I had the school run to do and get to work by 8.30am.
So, after 18 months, I made the switch to the patch. Not much change for a few months sadly, then I started bleeding! Since September 2020, I think I have had about 7 horrid bleeds. All tests were done and nothing untoward found. Gynae said it was a side effect of the patch and suggested coming off the patch to see if things calm down. I tried to come off the patch, boom, fell down the hole of gloom!
Currently, waiting for an appointment to see a private specialist to see if the progesterone part can be altered to help with the bleeding.
I have had some good days on the patch to be fair, so it may be worth persevering with.
Trial and error, over and over, until you strike that balance
xxxx
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Hi Nas,
Yes, it is a rollercoaster which seems to all the time come up with a new negative turn or surprise. :o
I have to admit, when I thought about menopause a few years ago, I really wasn't prepared for anything like this ???
Also, given the symptoms are so hard, there's still a worry looming in my mind whether there is something else wrong with my body. Like, I'm questioning can this REALLY be 'just menopause'. Though when reading the posts here, it's pretty clear there are so many of us to whom this is a very hard time.
Sometimes I'm wondering, what would happen if I'd just come off HRT altogether, as it feels that while HRT is sorting out some issues, it's causing new issues instead. But then again, I'm not yet at the point to stop as I'd be terrified about the returning symptoms, as well as the longer run consequences of low oestrogen. So I guess its just to hang in there and take it day by day.
Let us know what the private specialist will tell and in the meanwhile take good care of yourself! xx
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Given that there are oestrogen receptors in pretty much every part of the female body, I think it’s safe to say that a lot of how we feel, can be attributed to the menopause.
However, thyroid can also play havoc and the two often play havoc at the same time!
Many a time I gave thought about coming off HRT as the last two years have been
nothing but bother in truth. But then the low mood descends and that’s enough to slap on the gel or stick on a patch!
Day by day is about all we can do right now.
Best of luck to you too xxxx
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Hi Ella! How are you doing on the estradot? I also got it! I am though on 50mg and will work up if need to. Only applied it yesterday morning and so far been ok but bit tired! How about you? X
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So eased to see this thread. I started on the gel 9 weeks ago and my experience is quite similar.
I wanted to take it as I felt constantly wired, unable to relax and consequently slept very badly.
I was very wary as I'd tried the patch 3 years before, didn't feel much of an improvement and the progesterone part was horrible.
I started in the lower dose but couldn't believe it when I started to get bad hot flushes, something I've only rarely suffered from. Same with night sweats. I've j creased the dose, reduced it again, but ultimately, I've reached the point 9 weeks later where some days are better and I feel more relaxed and suddenly I'm back to feeling completely wired up. I cannot find any trend at all but I have more bad days than good.
Odly though, I am tolerating the progesterone fine. I did sleep better than in along time the first week of taking it but it then lost its benefits.
I'm very tempted to stop as I don't feel better, just more tired and have put on weight. I'm still so desperate to feel more calm and relaxed, it's so frustrating. I don't know if I have the mental energy to give the patch another try so would love to know if it's made any difference to you.
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Hi Ella! How are you doing on the estradot? I also got it! I am though on 50mg and will work up if need to. Only applied it yesterday morning and so far been ok but bit tired! How about you? X
Hi Margaret, good to hear you're on an updated regime. Hope it'll work for you better!
And thanks for asking about me! I feel its still too early to say much about the patch, as I've only had it less than a week. What I can say already, though, is that it does feel more stable than the gel, which gave me the strange 'rushes' 1-2 hours after application, sometimes making me feel very unwell. Patch feels milder and hopefully, over the next weeks I'll start feeling a difference.
I'll update again in couple of days. In the meanwhile, hope you stay well and do let us know how you get on! xx
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So eased to see this thread. I started on the gel 9 weeks ago and my experience is quite similar.
I wanted to take it as I felt constantly wired, unable to relax and consequently slept very badly.
I was very wary as I'd tried the patch 3 years before, didn't feel much of an improvement and the progesterone part was horrible.
I started in the lower dose but couldn't believe it when I started to get bad hot flushes, something I've only rarely suffered from. Same with night sweats. I've j creased the dose, reduced it again, but ultimately, I've reached the point 9 weeks later where some days are better and I feel more relaxed and suddenly I'm back to feeling completely wired up. I cannot find any trend at all but I have more bad days than good.
Odly though, I am tolerating the progesterone fine. I did sleep better than in along time the first week of taking it but it then lost its benefits.
I'm very tempted to stop as I don't feel better, just more tired and have put on weight. I'm still so desperate to feel more calm and relaxed, it's so frustrating. I don't know if I have the mental energy to give the patch another try so would love to know if it's made any difference to you.
Hi Letmein,
sorry to hear you're not feeling well. But as you'll see in the forum, there are so many of us in the same situation, so at least you'll have lots of peer support. ::)
I know many women get on very well with the gel, even I did at the beginning when I only applied 1 pump. Then something happened with my own hormonal levels in the background (felt like oestrogen just crashed to a very low level) and I started having all kinds of new horrible symptoms. As I tried increasing the gel, it no longer worked and I started feeling worse and worse on it. Now I'm on the patch, but I'm afraid its still too early for me to say anything about it, as its been less than a week. My early experience, though, is that it feels more stable and providing better balance, but the coming weeks should tell if this is the case. It's been a rough couple of months, so even a small improvement would make a big difference now.
Perhaps for you giving the patch another try could still make sense? The guidance I've seen is that we should give a regime 3 months time to see if it works. You'd still have couple weeks to go, but if you're not feeling any improvement, then perhaps the gel is not for you. Do you have a chance to discuss with your GP or meno specialist about the situation?
Take care and let us know how you get on! xx
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I think the gel is prone to give rushes of estrogen and I personally have experienced this with both sandrena and the pump gel. The minutes after application, I feel hot and wired. With the patch, I am calmer. I’ve been prescribed sandrena gel, but have found some Estradot and an going to give them another go. Will probably bleed in a few days but feel if that can be overcome, the patch is definitely a better option.
I do not see how you can achieve a stable dose of hormone with the gel, but that’s just my thought!
Good luck everyone battling this relentless menopause journey!
Xxxx
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Hi, how are you all doing on Estradot?
I was prescribed it last Friday (75 micro grams) to use instead of 4 pumps of Estrogel.
I felt better quite quickly for a few days but then had to take my progesterone (only managed 4 days of utrogestan this time) and now feel bad again (really low and anxious).
I feel like my hormones are going up and down dramatically and it’s so hard. I am also on antidepressants. I know a week isn’t long and my body is probably adjusting.
Any reassurance would be really welcome as I am just feeling so sad and tired of feeling low and anxious.
Xxx
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I think the gel is prone to give rushes of estrogen and I personally have experienced this with both sandrena and the pump gel. The minutes after application, I feel hot and wired. With the patch, I am calmer. I’ve been prescribed sandrena gel, but have found some Estradot and an going to give them another go. Will probably bleed in a few days but feel if that can be overcome, the patch is definitely a better option.
I do not see how you can achieve a stable dose of hormone with the gel, but that’s just my thought!
Good luck everyone battling this relentless menopause journey!
Xxxx
Hi Nas,
based on what I've read, it actually should be that one gets quite even absorption also with the gel. It's supposed to be absorbed and then released gradually into blood circulation, and once steady state is reached, the estradiol levels should stay quite stable. But it seems for some of us it doesn't work that way, for whatever reason that might be. Or maybe we are particularly sensitive to even smaller fluctuations, so that we get symptoms from fluctuations which would go unnoticed for others.
Hope you're feeling better today and do keep us posted on how you feel with the patch! Take care xx
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Hi, how are you all doing on Estradot?
I was prescribed it last Friday (75 micro grams) to use instead of 4 pumps of Estrogel.
I felt better quite quickly for a few days but then had to take my progesterone (only managed 4 days of utrogestan this time) and now feel bad again (really low and anxious).
I feel like my hormones are going up and down dramatically and it’s so hard. I am also on antidepressants. I know a week isn’t long and my body is probably adjusting.
Any reassurance would be really welcome as I am just feeling so sad and tired of feeling low and anxious.
Xxx
Hi again! sorry to hear you're feeling worse :( It's so hard and exhausting to just feel bad all the time.
Is there anything you could plan for the weekend that would really distract you? I've noticed that even if I feel really bad, if something very important comes along that requires my full attention, it helps with the anxiety. Kind of takes the space away from brain which would otherwise be focused on feeling bad.. Difficult to explain but you know what I mean I hope.
Regarding the patch, for me its too early to say anything definitive as it's only been less than a week (started last Sat evening). But at least I don't feel worse and last night I slept like a baby, plus overall feel a bit more stable and calm (no longer the rushes after applying the gel). Trying to take it now day by day and keeping expectations modest (difficult, as I'm so much hoping this would be the right solution for me!!!).
Take care and keep us posted! xxxx
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Hello again ladies.
Like many of you I continue to deal with mood problems whilst using Oestrogel and Utrogestan. There are occasions when I feel normal and other times when I feel positively good but for the most part I have low mood and anxiety. For the life of me I cannot figure out what causes these sudden changes, it can only be hormones and I agree that it is exhausting!
I thought the gel stays in the blood stream for eighteen hours so in theory there shouldn't be fluctuations but we all respond differently so it must be possible. The patch is a much more attractive alternative if the Oestrogen is also body identical.
I hope to be speaking to my meno doctor next week and will of course pass on any useful information to the forum.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Thank you Ella and Kathleen. It’s so helpful to know I am not alone. Today has been a pants day but I have a bleed so I really hope I start to feel better and things feel more manageable soon.
Yes, sometimes distraction is really good!
Take care xxx