Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Robin on May 24, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
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Dr Newsons Twitter account says she is receiving criticism from medical colleagues for talking negatively about menopause care in the recent documentary.
I find it astounding that these medics refuse to accept what so many women are experiencing. The menopause documentary showed clearly the lived experience of many thousands of women whose GPs either don’t recognise or refuse to treat difficult menopause symptoms with HRT and accurate up to date advice.
I was naively looking forward to menopause and my heavy, long periods ending. I had no idea what the reality might be until my physical and mental health fell off a cliff. No amount of self help, alternative therapies, psychiatric medication positive thinking CBT would have got me through. I needed HRT
My many menopause symptoms went unrecognised and untreated by approximately 6 GPs for years. Instead I was prescribed many different types of antidepressants, psychiatric medications and medications to mitigate the side effects of them. I saw quite a few specialists and had a lot of input from mental health services at great cost to the NHS and almost lost my life when all I needed was relatively inexpensive HRT.
Having never been involved with mental health services before should in itself have been a big red flag that they were on wrong track.
At a time in our lives when we find ourselves so low we shouldn’t have to fight for what we need. Some women have doctors who are trained in menopause and willing to prescribe and that is wonderful but many thousands more are not that lucky and at a time in our lives when we find ourselves so low it shouldn’t be so hard to access what we need.
Dr Newson is trying to change the system for the better. Not just for women but medics too by offering free training to every GP practice. The reduction in referrals, antidepressant prescriptions and improved female health will surely save precious NHS funds and prevent so much suffering.
I cannot understand why doctors see a push for improvement as a direct criticism of all doctors, it’s not, although those people actively trying to prevent women accessing menopause treatment do deserve criticism in my opinion.
I don’t have a Twitter account so can’t add to the comments below Dr a Newsons post so decided to say what I think here though unfortunately that means medics won’t see it.
Dr Newson is working extremely hard bringing menopause out into the open, dispelling myths and trying to improve the treatment of women. Those medics criticising and pushing against this should have a long hard look at themselves. Too many people in positions of power, who haven’t suffered themselves, disbelieve or dismiss women and things need to change. I don’t understand why there’s so much animosity towards HRT in comparison to antidepressants etc.
I almost lost my life. I’m unlikely to ever work again. My VA untreated for so many years cannot be reversed. I DESERVED appropriate treatment. We all do.
Dr Newson vows to keep going and I’m very grateful to her for that. I don’t want my daughter, granddaughter or any other woman to suffer like I did. It’s inhumane.
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What an excellent post. Dr. Newson's waiting lists speak for themselves in terms of the size of the problem, and the many many women who are finding the money for private appointments when arguably they shouldn't have to.
In this country doctors are treated like gods and are not to be questioned and many like it that way. Like any profession, some are good some are bad. Some have great people skills and bedside manner and some are completely obnoxious - particularly when treating women. I suspect the poorer quality/performers are the ones who are objecting to what is clearly the objective truth.
Questioning is essential and this is an attempt to silence Dr. Newson. There are so many instances of bad practice (vaginal mesh anyone?) and medical negligence (look at the case law or GMC disciplinary findings - they're public) that we have to remain vigilant and questioning.
She is brave and it is an uncomfortable truth that many doctors are unhappy with.
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I’ve noticed on another medics / academics Twitter account a survey I believe may be designed to be used push back against women accessing HRT :hotflash:
Doctor Newson saves lives!
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Absolutely Iris. Those doctors that are saying “it’s not all of us, don’t tar us all with the same brush” WE KNOW but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t flag up the very inadequate, inappropriate care so many are experiencing. Some of the advice I was given was shocking wrong. Dangerously wrong. We’re costing the NHS a fortune and then having to pay privately to get what we need. It’s all so unnecessary
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Of course many GPs will say 'it's not us' - but why do they need to speak out? They should be reassuring their client base of how well they are serving menopausal women. Sometimes the truth hurts?
I am quite sure that Dr Newson will continue encouraging women to seek appropriate treatments. I expect she will switch off her Twitter account.
The British Menopause Society should be jumping on every one of the GPs making negative comments about the programme as should the GP Society as well as the BMA [I think that's the Insurance route for medics.? ]
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Very well said Robin. It's deeply unpleasant to discover the kind of omerta' that is expected of doctors who dare to criticise some of their colleagues, whether directly or indirectly, particularly when such criticism is aimed at improving the service from a humane, medical and administrative point of view. And they only make themselves look even worse.
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Thank you Iaszla, they do. Each time I see this unpleasantness they go further down in my estimation.
I wish I was on twitter so I could Post this thread there.
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Yes CLKD, they seem to believe either that because they personally do prescribe HRT that all doctors do and therefore there isn’t a problem or that Menopause is a nonsense and we should have a bit of CBT, cut out caffeine and get over ourselves.
It’s really not a good look
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I hope that Davina is reading Louise's Twitter account.
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I would think she probably is.
How wonderful it would be to be treated as adults and given the all the information we need to decide for ourselves whether we would like to try HRT or not instead of palming us off with antidepressants and leaving us to suffer.
So many women at this age commit suicide, leave their jobs, marriages break down and it’s all so unnecessary
,
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You’re right Avalon. So pleased you have a good doctor now. I do too but it took years and was far worse than I’ve dared write here but I couldn’t keep quiet any longer. This really has to stop
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Well said, Robin and all the others. CLKD that is so true, that sometimes the truth hurts. I wonder if there is also a spot of professional jealously going on, in that Dr Newson keeps a high profile and is making a success of her enterprise, as well as starting the new Menopause Charity. I think she deserves knighthood (damehood?). Meanwhile, diagnosis, treatment and access to it have been, and still are, a shambles on the NHS.
JP xx
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It is time that there is at least 1 menopause Doctor employed at each UK Surgery and in each Gynae Dept.! Hopefully Dr Newson will send round PMs to those on her e-mail list with updates.
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Just to add that although misogyny is often cited as an underlying cause of this whole debacle, I've had textbook useless responses from female GPs, one of menopausal age and two who are young enough to know better. And no doubt so have many others.
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Me too iaszla, in fact the majority of the doctors I saw were women
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This certainly is a very worrying "approach" by the medical profession. It harks back to Dr. Sarah Myhill who was drummed out of her role because she was too good at it. Fortunately, she is now in the same patient-revered position as Dr. Newson and is making a real difference to the lives of a huge M.E./CFS population, albeit privately and expensively. Whilst off at a tangent I know, this new development is an echo of how the medical profession can behave when feeling threatened. It hardly bodes well and doesn't instil confidence......if we have any left!
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The simple reason is because these doctors think the menopause is not a disease but a natural phenomenon that only affects women.
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One thing though. There should be a lot more choice available on the NHS and we shouldn't have to go privately. I think these clinics are making money out of misery. It's ok for those who can afford to pay these prices but not for those who cannot make ends meet.
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Most are like Dr Newson and can’t get menopause specialist jobs in the NHS
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Whilst patients should not have to resort to private treatments, it often isn't as expensive as one might fear.
1 has to consider the costs: initial appt. and necessary investigations, each will be charged 4 separately [bloods, X-rays, urine tests etc.]. If surgery is required, every aspect will be charged for, even the removal of sutures. So the Anaesthatist [sp], nursing staff, cook, cleaners require paying for. Some charges are paid by the patient/Insurance Company, others via the Consultant from his overall expenses budget.
After care will be charged 4 too. Hence when I had breast surgery, it cost a tenner to have 1 single stitch removed - I would have done it myself had I known ;D
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Dr Newson may make her living providing private health care but imo she's doing more to improve the lives of nhs patients than many nhs doctors. We need people like her.
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Absolutely we do. She’s doing so much more for women than her private work which in itself is a lifeline to women who have exhausted all other avenues. I’m in awe of all she’s doing especially knowing she carries on in spite of the criticism, all of which I’ve seen has been from female doctors and academics. It’s not just the criticism either it’s the failure to get on board and spread the word from other female HCPs. Abysmal
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They have to pay their staff but I feel these clinics are too expensive. The initial cost is not too bad but it's the follow up appointments which need to be done regularly, even to get repeat prescriptions. I'm afraid but it's not for everyone. Also, this wouldn't be covered by your heath insurance as it's not an illness. And being menopause it wouldn't be a one-off cost and it could continue forever.
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They don’t need to be done regularly. Louise Newson and the 36 other doctor GP menopause specialists she works with encourage womens GPs to prescribe after the first appointment.
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The reality of private menopause care is often quite different from the public perception
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GPs are very often willing to take over care once specialist has made recommendations
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But it depends on the type of HRT. For exsmple, BHRT cannot be prescribed on the NHS. I'm pretty sure that you would need regular follow ups for this for the private clinic.
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Bio identical is not regulated or advised so yes I agree in terms of the clinics pedalling that but Dr Newson and her colleagues are prescribing body identical HRT which is regulated and is exactly what is prescribed on NHS.
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I use a private clinic that originally prescribed my Evorel patches which I now get from my GP. No need to pay for it.
I was forced into that situation because my NHS doctors didn’t recognise my menopause symptoms and left me in terrible state for years
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What is the difference between body identical and bio identical? Also, what choices are there for progestin? It seems that through the NHS, Utrogestan is the only one that can be prescribed.
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Body identical is regulated and made from yam plants in the form of patches eg: Evorel and gel eg: estrogel That’s whats available on the NHS and is what Dr Newson and other menopause specialists prescribe.
Bio identical is often compounded Oestrogen in the form of lozenges which is not regulated, it is not advised by NHS or menopause specialists, it’s quackery sold by expensive Private ‘clinics’ and often cause women problems.
If you look on my menopause doctors website there is a podcast by Dr Newson and investigative journalist Kate Muir who didn’t realise that it’s an inferior product and ran into problems after trying it. One of the reasons she made the documentary
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Some great posts here. Can't add much as others have said it so eloquently already, but as a past patient of NH I'm dismayed to hear what's happened to Dr Newson. Such attitudes don't bode well for the wellbeing of women at menopause & beyond, but we can all do our bit to help bring about change by continuing to support & empower each other with the sharing of experience & knowledge, so we feel better informed & more confident in pushing for the treatment we need & upholding our right to it when that's challenged.
Robin, I'm saddened to know the detail you've posted here of what happened to you - my heart goes out to you for all you've been through.
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They prescribe all the same progesterones and progestogen as NHS do. The only difference is they will prescribe androfemme testosterone cream which is for women whereas NHS only prescribe testosterone formulations made for men.
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Thank you Wrensong that’s so kind. I’m so much better now I’ve finally got the treatment I needed from Dr Newson who saved my life as well as my sanity. I just wish all women could have the same and very much sooner than I did. Up until recently even after all I’d been through I just felt very lucky to be alive and back with my lovely family but I’m finding myself getting more and more frustrated and angry at the belligerent attitude of some medics who refuse to accept change is needed when women are crying out for help. As you say we can all play our part and this website is invaluable, allowing women to support each and empower each other
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I agree, I've had worse treatment at the hands of female GPS than male. And in fact, I've had much better treatment from (mostly male) mental health professionals, who were quite adamant that my mental health crises were menopausal and I needed to see a menopause specialist. I too nearly lost my life (2 suicide attempts in the last 3 years) and I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever work again - I'm 55 so that's quite a big deal :(.
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I’ve often thought our menopause journeys sound very similar racjen. I had suicide attempts too. I do wonder if our very high SHBG levels have something to do with it but can’t see that ever being researched.I would never have imagined this could happen to me. The only red flags looking back were hormone sensitivities each month. I’m a little younger than you and although I’m vastly better than I was my experience was so bad too much damage was done from the treatments I had over such a long period that I don’t think my brain will ever recover enough to be able to do the job I loved.
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So sorry you felt that way too Avalon. Have you found an HRT regime that works for you?
Kate Muir the journalist who wrote and produced the menopause documentary has written an excellent piece for the mail online today, there’s a link on My Menopause Doctors Twitter feed. More than 5000 doctors have signed up for Dr Newson's free training programme so far. It’s well worth h a read.
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I watched this documentary and it's propelled me to go to my gp. Usual story.hot flushes etc etc but the worst thing is my bones.they ache so much I feel about 110 years old.my sister's and my mum suffered altho I only know about that recently as they never spoke about it.im the youngest and the thought of another few years of feeling like this is well. .unbearable.i have a telephone appointment on 17th June.i would prefer to actually see a doctor in person..i don't want to moan about it but he'll why shouldn't I??!! If this was happening to men it would be fixed by now.
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Hi passiongirl, HRT made a big difference to my aches, pains and tendinitis. I hope your appointment goes well and you get the opportunity to try it. Good luck 🤞🏻X
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Passiongirl - make a note to have ready to speak to the GP. Once he/she has spoken to you, you may well be offered a face2face appt.. Let us know?
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Hello ladies.
Dr Newson has started a charity to support women and the menopause and research will be included. Donations from drug companies will not be allowed so money is being raised by crowd funding. Anyone wanting to learn more should go to Dr Newson's website.
Take care everyone.
K.
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Avalon, if you don't mind me asking, what health problems did the menopause cause? What made you feel suicidal? Did it start in peri and are still peri or post? Are you on HRT?
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Racjem, two suicide attempts seem extreme. What they caused by depression? I still cannot comprehend how just one hormone has the capacity to affect someone's mental health so much. This is horrible and I often get scared that this could happen to me.
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For me it wasn’t the situation I found myself in so much as the severe effect of lack of estrogen on my brain. Try not to worry because the most important thing is the awareness that it’s a possibility for some women. If you’re aware of it you will be able to seek treatment if it happens to you or anyone around you x
Also over 5000 doctors/nurses have signed up to Dr Newson menopause course so hopefully there will soon be much more awareness and support 🤞🏻
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Avalon, I just wanted to say I so empathised with your statement of "grieving for the loss of two years of my life." It's exactly how I feel and many times I have felt genuinely scared at what would have happened to me had I not been fortunate enough to be able to scrape together the pennies for a private appointment or two. A lot of women aren't in a situation where they can access that kind of healthcare and it's one of the biggest travesties of our generation that any treatment related to menopause is a blanket ban on private health insurance.
Disgusted but not at all surprised to hear the backlash that Louise Newsom is getting. A fantastic post from you Robin, I wish you could post it on twitter too!
I also agree that it's far from only male doctors - actually I've found the female GPs I saw to be worse if anything. Some women are lucky enough not to have too many problems with the menopause and therefore assume that that their experience is the benchmark and anyone saying differently is just "stuff and nonsense" or "anxiety" or *insert other generic hysterical women dialogue*.
All we can do is collectively continue to share our stories and not roll over and accept what we're dished out by any uneducated GPs!
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I’m so sorry you’ve been through it too Gilla999.
There are far too many women finding themselves in this position. I was in such a state I’ve no idea how I managed to travel 400 miles to get to my private appointment and had to put the cost in credit card because had hadn’t been able to work for so many years beforehand due to my severe menopause symptoms. I wouldn’t be here now if I hadn’t tried to get help that one last time.
It really shouldn’t be this hard
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That’s all depressingly familiar. I so pleased you’ve got your HRT now but how often do doctors need to hear this before they believe us?
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"Think juicy thoughts" OMGGGGGGG. I would sue!
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Maybe they should have highlighted the harrowing statistics of high rates of suicide amongst menopausal women (aged 45-54 although may vary). That is the shocking reality and everyone should be made aware of this.
Agree about Dr Newson doing fantastic work, she deserves a knighthood. The fact that GP can’t see this is pure tunnel vision and complete arrogance.
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ive no hope.2 years after my last period I didnt think Id feel as though i hate everyone,my partner
has regular hospital treatment to stay alive. I want to live alone +retire(but cant,not age 66 yet)
+I want to order my food shopping online as i feel as though people staring at me in shop cos i suddenly look +
feel old. +some r staring cos they wont forget me from doing a tv appeal (bitterly regret doing it)when my girl
was found murdered,after 5 weeks.Had no chance to say goodbye.Been 3 months waiting for the breast clinic
to tell my doc if can take HRT. had high grade DCIS+masectomy 8 month ago.I thought i was coping reasonably
well with my traumatic past +everything else. im scared of people, older women are vulnerable +looked down upon.
ignored +invisible .
Older men, not so much?
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What is the difference between body identical and bio identical? Also, what choices are there for progestin? It seems that through the NHS, Utrogestan is the only one that can be prescribed.
Hi Karine,
The BHRT/bio-identical products are exactly the same ingredients as the body identical, I'm still not sure why they came up with that new body-identical term.
The BHRT private clinics prescribe the same licensed pre-packaged Estrogel, patches, Utrogestan along with the option of the same ingredients compounded into smaller amounts or combined together to help deliver hormones in smaller doses in a more stable way, with less stopping and starting that you need to do with the larger dose pre packaged progesterone. As the compounded ones are individually measured and packaged at a compounding pharmacy they obviously cannot be licensed. It's a bit like the difference between buying a loaf of bread freshly baked at a village bakery rather than a loaf of Kingsmill.
The compounded progesterone is that same waxy stuff in the Utrogestan capsules moulded into lozenges or, more commonly, added to a high tech transdermal carrier cream. This makes it more expensive, hence, why the NHS cannot provide it. They instead use one product (Utrogestan) which can cover both fertility issues, its original use, and menopause. Testosterone tends to be the same one that men use but the private packaged and compounded ones are in much more female friendly dosage. Any decent private BHRT or body identical clinic will write to your GP to request that any NHS available products are prescribed by them.
As Robin points out through, there will be dodgy stuff sold around the world and online too but we are highly regulated in the UK so only medical doctors can prescribe oestrogen forms of BHRT.
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ive no hope.2 years after my last period I didnt think Id feel as though i hate everyone,my partner
has regular hospital treatment to stay alive. I want to live alone +retire(but cant,not age 66 yet)
+I want to order my food shopping online as i feel as though people staring at me in shop cos i suddenly look +
feel old. +some r staring cos they wont forget me from doing a tv appeal (bitterly regret doing it)when my girl
was found murdered,after 5 weeks.Had no chance to say goodbye.Been 3 months waiting for the breast clinic
to tell my doc if can take HRT. had high grade DCIS+masectomy 8 month ago.I thought i was coping reasonably
well with my traumatic past +everything else. im scared of people, older women are vulnerable +looked down upon.
ignored +invisible .
Older men, not so much?
Oh my God, Funnell, I am so sorry for everything you've been through. There are no words to cover it really so just wanted to say so.
And for all of us failed by the public healthcare system. Totally agree with the posters who speak of woman-to-woman mysogyny. Very much a thing.
Although I've recently had to fight to get my hrt back from patronising male Gps who just think it's my anxiety. Copious blood in urine says otherwise. My young female GP has been fantastic though and despite working long days apparently went to a lecture on progesterone last weekend.
Some of them are bl*#@dy arrogant though and I'm angry to hear of Dr. Newson being treated in this way. I cannot imagine how women managed before Hrt.
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I’m so sorry to hear all you’ve been through funnel and menopause symptoms on top of all that.
A lot of doctors are not up to date with HRT use after breast cancer but it is possible to use in some cases. There’s good info on the subject on My Menopause Doctors website, so don’t give up if you get turned down initially.
Dr Avrum Bluming wrote a book called Oestrogen Matters which explains why taking hormones in menopause can improve women’s well being and lengthen their lives - Without raising their risk of breast cancer. It’s £8.46 on Amazon.
:bighug:
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CHERRY SG, ROBIN, +others, thanks so much for reply. IM reading the book Robin,thanks,interesting,! Im now on citalapram,as well as nutrition tablets ,so Il see how
get on. Been feeling slightly,jus slighty less anxious +panicky, so fingers crossed.XX
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great thread- thanks Robin.
Avalon,
I was also a registered nurse but had to quit as perimeno became worse and worse. i've lost 10 fkin' years!! i'm really angry and do think about working in women's health once i get back to an equilibrium- i'd have to do "back to nursing" course as it's been so long since i worked
even now i await a private appointment on thurs to ask for testosterone. had ovaries removed last nov but doc didn't offer testosterone- 8 months on i'm knackered and dead from waist down!!
he also said let's have you on hrt shortest amount of time possible- yeah, that's not gonna happen- i'm 49- reckon 2, 3 decades on oestrogen by hook or by crook!!
i paid for hyster/ovary removal as was on nhs waiting list but covid then struck and i couldnt face the wait.
have spent last 2.5 years weaning off sodding antideps that i was prescribed some 7 years ago for all this- having to do it crazy-slow or feel awful- down to 10mg prozac no thanks any GPs- it'll take me another year to get off that but i'm determined as there's nothing wrong with me that oestrogen and testosterone can't fix.
i saw an awful meno specialist in leeds- told her i couldnt tolerate progestogens- she said "well nobody likes it"- i was suicidal on it!!! still, no ovaries now so dont have to worry about that.
just so very pissed off that ive had to work through everything myself- thank goodness for this forum! my friend was in similar position but ended up on 4 different psych meds and a long spell in psych ward (over a year)- i feel for her, hwo on earth will she ever get off all that medication?
and i know that that could have been me but for a bit of knowledge thanks to this forum.
so, thank you, ladies and felt good to get that off my chest!!
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(and apologies for derailing a thread about dr newson! will now follow her on twitter)
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Prozac made me :steamed: :cuss:
You will get off, it can take a while. It took me 9 weeks to withdraw from 1 AD - successfully.
There is NO time limit to taking HRT. Other than the ignorance of many UK GPs!
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thanks CLKD
can't wait to be off the prozac, for sure.
didnt really appreciate that it's ok for hrt to be lifelong- that is awesome!! hopefully docs will wise up to this as we age- otherwise we have docs like Dr Newson to see us right :)
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vintagefiend
even now i await a private appointment on thurs to ask for testosterone. had ovaries removed last nov but doc didn't offer testosterone- 8 months on i'm knackered and dead from waist down!!
Yes, I feel for you - after BSO it was like having all wires severed without testosterone. And the young female gynae had said my being already several years postmeno when the ovaries had to go, there would be no adverse consequences for my future wellbeing. How can there be such a lack of knowledge among senior medics who've chosen to specialise in women's health?
Discharged without follow-up after surgery, so 21 months later when nothing had improved, asked for Testogel from Cons of another specialty. Even then the lovely GP described as the surgery's Menopause Expert was not confident prescribing it as she'd not been asked before. I had to tell her how much I should take as Cons had not specified!
We so need clinicians with the wherewithal & compassion of Dr Newson & her colleagues to get things changed. Like turning round a cruise liner though.
Push for that T - it should make all the difference ;)
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oh wow wrensong-
thank you- that is so good to hear!!
got my appointment tomorrow- private phone appointment, dr baxter in sheffield.
i've checked that my chemist stocks both testogel and tostran!
just want the stuff already!!
i'm disgusted by the lack of knowledge among docs- as you say, even among meno "specialists"
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Everything crossed for you Vintagefiend. Be clear with him/her about what it's needed for as some will only prescribe it for sexual dysfunction, though it can be helpful in other ways. You probably know intact ovaries go on producing significant amounts of testosterone well into old age, so replacing that after oophorectomy can make a big difference. Can help restore libido & normal function as regards arousal & response. For me also I think some improvement in strength, clarity of thought/focus, confidence, sleep & definitely systemic dryness. I had a few weeks without it recently & certainly felt the lack.
Good luck!
Wx
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It isn't the fault of the gp, it's a bureaucratic problem because there isn't a product licensed for women in the UK. If a gp prescribes it they take personal responsibilityiif it goes wrong which is why it's normally prescribed by a specialist. I hope testosterone is the answer for you.
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Hi ladies,
apologies, i'm very late back to this thread but want to thank you for kind words and encouragement.
as wrensong knows i now have my T sachets- yay!
and avalon, hear what you say re psych meds- my friend is now on 4 (including mirtazapine) i worry she's been set on a path that will be very hard to get off- makes me so angry.
and, yes, wrensong, i think dr baxter is someone who prescribes T mainly for low libido (i was given the heads-up by someone on this forum!) so i led with that. it's true but in all honesty clarity of thought and energy are more important to me at present!
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I do think T helped me with clarity of thought, focus & motivation. Probably energy too, but as I sleep badly, fatigue & stamina are long term issues, so I can't be sure. I suspect T actually helped me with sleep though & the gynae who first advised me on HRT (before BSO) did say T should help with sleep. Lots of women on here do report it helps with energy, so I would expect you to feel better in that way for it.
Wx
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thanks wrensong
the lady (from this forum) that suggested dr baxter said that testosterone gel helped her sleep, too- now that would be marvellous :)