Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Postmeno3 on May 07, 2021, 07:03:38 AM
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Looks like Davina McCall is set to expose some important material in this show. It's 9p.m. next Wednesday, Channel 4. Dr Newson hailing it.
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Addendum by Admin
See Dr Currie's blog post on this programme here (https://wwwmenopausematters.blogspot.com/2021/05/davina-mccall-sex-myths-and-menopause.html)
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Thanks for the 'heads up'. I shall be watching! :o
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Thank you ...that should be interesting!
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Got it set to record!
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Just watching this.. So during their training G.PS only have to do a non compulsory E. Module on menopause!... which explains why so many are clueless about a subject that affects so many women.
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Just watching it now it’s really good
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Agree Perinowpost, excellent and very clearly explained.
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:-* :-* :-* Loved it! Wish it was more than one episode!!!!!
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I'm about to watch it. OH has gone to bed ;D
Taz x
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Put it on record Taz? ;D
I thought the programme was well balanced and pleased to see Nick and Louise heading the information, rather than flitting between various 'experts' which is common in written journalism. Now we should have a 30 mins follow-up programme to cover each issue separately, mayB we need to send questions to the Channel?
What wasn't explained 2 the viewer is, that after qualifying, trainees do 6 months learning in each speciality - B4 choosing General Practice. So this is miles away from when they get to menopause themselves and the modules R on-line courses. Also, I didn't like the woman who Davina talked to about the sexual aspect: she had no eye contact, seemed embarrassed as her eyes were everywhere :-\. ??? This is a woman who probably works behind a computer rather than facing women with difficulties ????
Bet Davina's in-box is buzzing this morning!
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Agree re the training CLKD and the modules aren't compulsory either, which explains why so many G. P'S know nothing! For the most part l thought the programme was excellent though and if nothing else revealed the general lack of knowledge and understanding about the subject in many women and G.P's! Hopefully this will raise awareness in both and will lead to more discussion. Also good to see Nick Panay and Louise Newson on board, l wish women could get access to this kind of advice and treatment without having to go private; as Davina mentioned menopause clinics are woefully thin on the ground.
I agree with you about the sex toy woman, happily assuring us that 95 year old women still have desire and orgasms after meno with no mention of the possible need for Testosterone, which of course is still unlicensed and so rarely prescribed by G. P's ( despite NICE guidelines! )
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CLKD, Do you mean the woman promoting sex toys etc later in life? That bit got a bit tacky for me as it seemed to be focused "simply" on alternative ways to achieve orgasm, quick solutions, rather than the huge emotional toll and physical challenges of the difficulties of penetrative lovemaking at this stage of life (resulting in the chicken and egg scenario for both); how desire can be affected as a result. So this section felt a bit avoidant and dismissive about very real issues post-menopausally. You're right, a series of spin-offs on specific aspects would be highly useful. It was an empathic and honest programme, though. Brave (and brava!) Davina!
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I thought the programme was fantastic. Tough to watch at times, but really highlighted the abysmal starting point re: awareness in the general population and, most shockingly, among GPs.
It also succeeded where my other attempts to talk about peri/menopause at home have failed, and my other half and eldest - a teenager - actually sat down and watched it with me. The teenager sat through almost the entire programme until it got to the sex toy bit, then the embarrassment factor kicked in and they left the room, lol.
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Really enjoyed the programme. Well done to all involved
Wx
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Yeh, great programme. All very well a 95 yr old having orgasms but where does she find a man who’s still capable of giving her one! Hence the sex toys maybe?
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I enjoyed the programme and was staggered by some of the statistics, over 80% of women with virginal dryness, and only 8% having treatment. Only 10% of women on HRT, only one menopause clinic north of Leeds in England, though there are more in Scotland. 5 yrs for one woman to be referred to a menopause clinic, whilst obviously struggling.
I found Marcella Frostrup’s The Truth about Menopause BBC iPlayer equally informative, if not more realistic in some areas, like sex after menopause.
Raising awareness can only help though.
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Thanks, Dawn20. I'll take a look at Mariella later.
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I’ve just seen one of the GPs who I unfortunately saw while trying to get treatment tweeting about people bashing GPs in relation to this programme. I’m so blumming angry to see that after the way she treat me in relation to my menopause symptoms. She was ill informed and very unpleasant. She’s part of the reason I suffered for so many years and almost lost my life.
I’m so so angry which is very unlike me. Hate feeling angry going for a walk to cool off
:angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :hotflash: :hotflash: :hotflash: :hotflash: :cuss: :argue:
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How can so many GPs be so blinkered as to the sheer scale of women struggling to get appropriate menopause treatment. I had a lot of appointments over many years but didn’t get treatment until I went private . :hotflash:
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I’m so angry I can’t type or spell >: ;D :'(
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I enjoyed watching the programme and am pleased that more people are talking about menopause.
There was too much to cover in one hour but Davina did well.
Shame they didn’t mention testosterone gel as part of a HRT regime, not only for libido but for energy, sleep, etc. This was something that I found very difficult to obtain and had to travel far and wide (as many of you have) to finally receive the treatment. It would have been good to expose the fact that not all GP’s will prescribe as they don’t know enough about it as it isn’t officially licensed for women. I know that moves are being made regarding Androfeme etc but it would help to speed up the process. It’s like they said on the programme, if it were men, it would been sorted by now.
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I thought it was great but the response from RCGP was awful. The same attitude as so many GPs in relation to menopause, very dismissive.
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The unpleasantness I’m seeing from NHS doctors on Twitter in relation to this programme is my opinion a good indicator as to the reasons why we have such difficulty accessing menopause treatment in this country. I went to bed last night after watching it feeling happy and optimistic but now feel quite despondent. How can things change if they can’t see there’s a problem
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Sorry ladies, It’s not like me to get so angry but I’ve had a good cry and stopped ranting.
It’s a good job I don’t have a twitter account as I might have responded
🤬 😱 🤐
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No need to apologise Robin, I’m sure everyone quite understands your wrath. Knowing the lack of GP knowledge about the menopause and HRT, led me to seek help from a private gynaecologist, especially as I was 64 at the time. Expensive but well worth it.
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Robin, l can understand your anger, l am not on Twitter so haven't read the responses but do not comprehend how G. P's can defend themselves when the evidence from so many women is overwhelming. I hope you speak up about the G. P who failed you even if it means contacting the practice manager and flagging it up! Perhaps we should all be doing this if we've received poor advice from misinformed G. P's.
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It is down to your individual practice and how educated/enlightened they are. I got every single thing I asked for from my GP’s from VA treatment to testosterone. This is in West Yorkshire. I know not everyone is so lucky, hence Davina’s statistics. It does seem to be a bit of a lottery x
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The unpleasantness I’m seeing from NHS doctors on Twitter in relation to this programme is my opinion a good indicator as to the reasons why we have such difficulty accessing menopause treatment in this country. I went to bed last night after watching it feeling happy and optimistic but now feel quite despondent. How can things change if they can’t see there’s a problem
Ah yes....not happy when they're standing equal to us. Many doctors have a bit of a God complex. We have a very paternalistic attitude to medicine in this country and many GPs expect us to be passive recipients of whatever they advise. We have more input when we're having a room decorated or some gardening done - these are our bodies! We get the one, they get to practice on many.
Huge salaries (many leaving due to being up to the top of their million £ pensions) loads of adulation and a hugely fulfilling career. They have nothing to complain about.
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Robin I totally agree with you about the response from the RCGP. It was defensive and disinterested very like the GPs myself and my friend have encountered at our local surgery.
I was really shocked at the lack of Menopause clinics in the North of England, and I was surprised to see more in Scotland. However I feel there is huge disparity in the quality of care provided by different NHS clinics. It's not much good having access to one if they are not open to keeping up-to-date and transparent in their management of women's health.
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Can anyone post the response from the RCGP please? I've searched but couldn't find it and am not on Twitter. Thanks in advance! :)
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You were very lucky perinowpost, I wish every woman had the same experience as you. I had many Gp appointments with at least 6 different doctors, saw 2 gynaecologists and a urogynaecologist and still couldn’t access HRT. Even when I eventually did a lot of what they told me was wrong and contrary to the guide lines. I spent years on antidepressants and other psychiatric medications when all I needed was a relatively cheap prescription of HRT. I live in Yorkshire too, you’re right it’s a lottery and it shouldn’t be x
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Thank you hot mama. I had to pay for private treatment too but as you say very well worth it.
Diamonds and pearls I did complain eventually about this particular GP. Her response was poor and I’m sure my complaint alone made little difference to her treatment of other women. Perhaps if others had also complained they might listen but it’s so hard to do when you’re feeling so awful with menopause symptoms.
Iris yes! They’re our bodies, why should we accept antidepressants etc when they’re not indicated as first line treatment in menopause. We are quite capable of making informed choices for ourselves around HRT if we have the facts rather than the misinformation they give us because they haven’t had adequate training
Absolutely seahorse, I live in the north and there isn’t a clinic near me. Most seem to be down south
Diamonds and pearls the response from RCGP was on the programme, read out by Davina. Not sure if it’s written anywhere
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Thanks Robin, will re watch in that case, cant think how l missed it.
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Diamonds and pearls Just wanted to add that its completely out of character for me to complain other than to my family but she was the final straw in what was a harrowing menopause journey and very unpleasant too. I also know I’m not the only patient she’s been unpleasant to
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It’s the first lot of written words on the screen which Davina reads out I think
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I’ve just seen one of the GPs who I unfortunately saw while trying to get treatment tweeting about people bashing GPs in relation to this programme. I’m so blumming angry to see that after the way she treat me in relation to my menopause symptoms. She was ill informed and very unpleasant. She’s part of the reason I suffered for so many years and almost lost my life.
I’m so so angry which is very unlike me. Hate feeling angry going for a walk to cool off
:angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: :hotflash: :hotflash: :hotflash: :hotflash: :cuss: :argue:
Did you tweet a reply??
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I did note the location of the dots indicating specialist clinics in Scotland and they were quite often where a shared practice takes place. So, three dots might represent the same service if that makes sense.
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The lady talking about sex after menopause is great she’s Samantha Evans of Jo Divine and does great work helping people who would like an intimate relationship but may difficulties due to a health condition eg: vaginal atrophy.
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That’s interesting postmeno 3. I wonder how many that plied to
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Hi Aprilflower, no I didn’t. I don’t have an account so just read them sometimes.
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Hi Aprilflower, no I didn’t. I don’t have an account so just read them sometimes.
Ha, that's a shame. I would have loved to see her reaction.
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I did some very angry vacuuming instead. The furniture seems to have survived 😆
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U can do the dusting here if you're still angry.
I did learn about oestrogen but progesterone was hardly mentioned ? how essential it is for women with a womb or did I miss that ?
Sadly the RCGP is probably run by the 'old school' ........... did Mark Porter have any input on Twitter, I have followed his career for many years then lost track for a while.
Shall I fire up the Charabanc ;). It's awful that women have to fight for GPs to even listen 2 what we want to tell them !!! I agree, I've worked with 'gods' ........ as well as a Consultant who when he said 'When you have a moment could you ........ ' I knew it was required ASAP. So of course it was done, ASAP.
I found Jo Malone awkward on camera. Her eyes were everywhere as I mentioned initially, she wouldn't inspire confidence I'm afraid.
Where do we go from here?
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Diamonds and pearls, you asked about the RCGP statement in response to the programme. If you put RCGP into the search on twitter you’ll find it in full with many comments beneath!
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Those medics should be put into a small room with menopausal women ;D
:poke2: :beat: :kick: :whip: .......... :whist:
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Thank you for pointing me in the right direction Robin, l have just been looking through the comments on twitter and it makes very depressing reading indeed.
So many women fobbed off with anti depressants and treated dismissively. Shameful!
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Davina's Twitter has positive responses!
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See Dr Currie's blog post on this programme here (https://wwwmenopausematters.blogspot.com/2021/05/davina-mccall-sex-myths-and-menopause.html)
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:thankyou:
Despite the criticisms expressed about the lack of menopause training and knowledge by GPs, most menopause management is provided appropriately by knowledgeable primary care teams
It doesn't appear so from the comments on MM and when talking to friends. Until the BMS takes on board those GPs that aren't up2date, by listening to patients who get fobbed off by having a reporting system, improvement will be IMO slow.
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Also - I dread to think how many ladies across the World are sitting in care homes with undiagnosed VA :'( - especially as residents sit for hour after hour after .......
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I agree CLKD definately not my experience. Being young when my symptoms of peri started meant me being totally fobbed off, mine & everyone else's precious time wasted going from specialty to speciality to find out what was causing my symptoms!!!
I enjoyed the programme, though hope it was watched by many & educated a whole load more about meno. x
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Hi all, & Foxylady my experience has been like yours! At least 6 years of me going to the GP with symptoms and saying I'm peri and them dismissing it or testing me for other things.
I totally understand there are other conditions with similar symptoms that need to be checked, however each time these results were clear the gp left it there and didn't go back to exploring the possibility of Peri! I was continually told that I was too young and that it couldn't be Peri because I wasn't having hot flushes or missing periods!!!! Were my flooding Cycles, exhaustion, anxiety and screamingly obvious VA at 40 not enough??? Each time I revisited when a new symptom was added to my suffering with me thinking 'this time they'll believe me!' To be turned away each time until eventually this year at 46 I asked for referral to the menopause clinic after receiving advice to do so from you lovely lot!!!!!
Surely it is their job to diagnose and prescribe for us, and it shouldn't be the case that only those of us who educate ourselves and go armed with an HRT wishlist that get treatment!!!
This makes me so sad and angry that so many people are not only suffering unnecessarily but also putting their long term health at risk by not receiving HRT.
Let's pray this programme is the start of something!
:-*
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I watched Davina last night, the programme was excellent though too high level in places. The surface of shame, embarrassment and necessity has only been scratched. Is this a one off? My catch up service said Series 1 Episode 1. Needs to be a series but well done to Davina for her honesty. What I've gleaned is that perhaps I should be on HRT for the prevention of osteoporosis and heart attack in the future. But I'm not sure and too many points were left open.
I've read many posts on here about HRT and dosages but I still feel it's a minefield of information that I can't decipher. I'm in meno 3 years. I started with night sweats, many flushes, brain fog, difficulties sleeping, fatigue, anxiety, dryness (skin and vaginal) and the beginning of VA. Now I have dryness, lack of energy and motivation, the odd flush, digestive issues, memory and concentration issues, aches and pains, headaches and a complete lack of libido. Who's to say all these are meno related too? How does one know?
I took meno supplements 2 -3 years ago but not now. Do I need to? Should I be using HRT as a prevention? These are the questions that were touched upon in the programme then left open. They talked about getting the right lubricant but some had additives which cause reactions but they didn't then say which were good.
I live where there are no meno clinics for 00s of miles and our menopause NP has moved on, so I don't expect there'll be much support from the GPs but I'll try.
Any pointers/insight would be gratefully received.
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Hi Lanie! Some find keeping a mood/food/symptom diary of use to chart progress. Something to bang on the GP's table ::)
You could ask for a referral to a menopause clinic - ring the Surgery and make the suggestion. We have threads about 'bladder issues' and 'vaginal atrophy' to read. Makes notes ;)
When was your last period? Which symptom would you like to ease first? Brisk walking several times a week as well as a good diet is enough for good bone structure, it's those who sit around that are more at risk. As well as those that are obese, drink or smoke.
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My list of education for GPs would be:
listen to ladies who complain of anxiety: consider their ages, LMP, life style; if necessary anti-anxiety medication to calm feelings followed by an appt. to go through her general health over the last 2 years
GPs should suggest they keep a mood/food/symptom diary for discussion at that discussion appt.
have a dedicated menopause Nurse who delivers specific clinics where ladies can ask questions
explain how lack of oestrogen may impact: overall dryness being an essential discussion
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Thanks for the reply CKLD, unfortunately there's no chance of a meno clinic where I live!
My main questions are about taking HRT as a preventative measure because I was an adopted child and I've recently found out that on both sides most family deaths have been sudden massive heart attacks and my birth mother has osteoporosis, 2 conditions mentioned in the programme.
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Lanie, from your description of your symptoms you certainly sound like you need hrt. You have all the classic indicators of declining oestrogen and your doctor should prescribe hrt for you on symptoms alone. Read the NICE guidelines and arm yourself with that information when you speak to your G. P. At the very least you sound like you need Ovestin or Vagifem applied topically to help with vaginal dryness. Hrt will also help to protect you against osteoporosis in the future too, if indeed you are vulnerable due to your family history.
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Thank you Diamonds and Pearls, I'll see what the GP practice has in terms of someone clued up on menopause and I'll check out the NICE guidelines, at least I have a starting point
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Good luck Lanie, and don't be fobbed off. If it helps you feel more confident then print out the NICE guidelines and underline the salient points. Even if your G. P isn't particularly clued up they can prescribe what you need to be comfortable, it's your right!