Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Whatsupwiththis on June 19, 2020, 02:47:51 PM
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As some of you know I've been on Vagifem and Estragyn (estrone) for 8 months. So far so good but I'm curious how often other VA ladies get flare ups and what symptoms does it cause. For me, a flare up is discomfort i.e. stinging and some soreness. Thoughts?
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That's exactly the same question I was going to ask aswell. I am almost 60 had full hysterectomy when I was 47. No meno symptoms at all until last October when I could barely walk with the burning stinging and soreness of the vulva. Not to mention going for a wee every half hour. Vagifem took a while to work but for the past two weeks it's as bad as ever. I am using it every night at the moment but still not getting any relief. So is this a flare up or is the Vagifem not enough ?? It makes me feel so fed up and depressed.
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How long have you been on Vagifem? I use daily. It's the only way I can keep VA under control. It takes such a long time to work. Are you using any estrogen cream for vulva? Many of us need both...Vagifem internally and cream externally. My GP put me on Amitriptyline until the vulva nerves settled. Keep it up and you will get over it. Sometimes I sneak in 2 at a time.
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Yes jaypo, for life. I know some ladies who felt better and decided to get off Vagifem only to have a nasty flare up. From what other ladies have posted, it is much more difficult to get VA back under control. Boy what us ladies go through. If it happened to men to have their little doodads painful, there would be a cure in a matter of days.
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I've been on vagifem for just a week but already I've stopped weeing every half an hour. I was put on it as I'd some blood,I too had a hysterectomy 13 years ago,so I knew it wasn't spotting from a period or the like,also,intercourse was uncomfortable at times.Have you to stay on vagifem for good does anyone know?
Yes I have been on Vagifem for just under 2years and Evorel Conti for 1 year. I don't use as many Vagifem now but still need an occasional booster. Mostly use it about 3 x a week.
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Have been using Vagifem since Last October. I've been to see Gynaecologist who specialises in menopause and he said ok to use as required so was using every other night up until this flare up. I do have estrogen cream for outside but that also is not helping at the moment. I have been putting an extra vagifem in now and again out of desperation. So if vagifem is used every night why do we still get flare ups. ?? Any ideas ?
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Hi Denise...that's what I would like to know. Hopefully more informed ladies will respond.
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I have had major issues with VA from the age of 48, at the time i was still in peri and apart from increase in palpitations i have had no other meno symptoms.
I need to use systemic HRT, Vagifem and Ovestin every day to control it and i still get flare ups, nowhere near as bad as before treatment though. The longest i went between a flare up has been about 7 months, this year i had one in March and end of May, to get back on track again i up Vagifem to two a night for about a week.
Fortunately i found a sympathetic GP at our surgery who is happy to prescribe what i need, i dread the day he retires.
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I have also had issues with this for many years but only last summer was given Ovestin cream. By that time I was getting to the stage where it hurt to walk.
I can never seem to get to the maintenance stage of twice weekly doses without stinging, soreness and burning in between. This seriously affects my life and I give up trying to get help because I feel like I am not believed. As soon as I use the Ovestin the feeling reduces but I never feel ok and I am using it far more than I should be.
I saw a private vulva dermatologist and she diagnosed me with Vulvodynia. However the hormone cream definitely helps me.
I tried systemic HRT but had terrible bleeding for over 6months.
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OK Girls - listen up ;D
Vagifem is a much lower dose than it was produced at years ago. Some bright spark decided that ladies could 'make do with' 10 instead of 25!
Some need it every night for Life. Others need alternate nights to keep symptoms at bay. It is about management of symptoms.
I have 'ovestin' which is similar but delivered differently 3rd and 5th night a week. When symptoms niggle I do 3 nights with pain relief 3 times a day. For me that stops the need to wee symptoms.
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Is the internal 'routine'? Not really necessary if you are being treated for VA .......... unless there's a polyp, I had one that bled on contact ::) but it shrivelled during peri ;-)
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After 5 years on Vagifem and Ovestin my flare ups are now only very occasional and sorted quickly with Dermovate cream. When they do occur its usually an external factor as I never change my dosage or routine (5 a week vagifem and Ovestin externally every night, use Ovestin internal on the 2 days I dont use Vagifem).
I now know my triggers, the worst is stress. Also I'm always better during the summer months getting the sun, so now take vitimin D during the winter, I'm sure this has helped. Not drinking enough and getting dehydrated can cause a mini blip.
Lockdown for 10 weeks meant I wasn't sat at my office chair 8 hours a day, (laptop on the sofa instead) very little work stress, breaks whenever, sat in the sun, I've felt completely normal for the first time in 5 years and actually forgot I had VA (not usually possible as never 100%).
Ive decided to retire a couple of years earlier than planned, lifes too short. ;)
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Go For It Dierdre! 10 years ago DH and I realised that several people we knew were dying: the youngest was 28 of a brain tumour, leaving a baby of 4 months. So he worked out our finances, engaged a Financial Advisor and the following year, at 58, retired :-*. The FA has done well thus far, we now have more in the Bank than 10 years ago ;-)
Didn't the GP read your notes jaypo :-\ ::)
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Yep. Records are kept for years++ - mine even in paper form ;D. Other surgeries micro-fiche or have a central office ....... I would be finding out what's happened :-\. That's the whole point of records ::)
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I had a rather interesting talk with a friend who is also a fab NP. She is in her early 70's, still going strong. I asked her why those of us taking local HRT daily still get flare ups. This is her response (not verbatim):
Vagifem is a very low dose of estrogen and can take up to TWO YEARS before the mucous *might* reach acceptable level to provide total comfort for women well into post menopause. She mentioned that if you are comfortable and suddenly you get a flare up, chances are sex or infection is the culprit. She also stated that your vaginal walls are still very thin and fragile and can be easily traumatized....bike riding, sitting too long, applicator causing slight cuts, or allergic reaction can cause discomfort. The good news is that in her opinion, if you found relief for long periods of time while using local HRT, then up the treatment until you get comfortable again which if Vagifem was effective before a flare up then it will work again. She also stated that peri and post menopausal women can suffer from vulvodynia which is a separate issue entirely.
I am still curious to find out how many of us do get flare ups, how often and what may have caused it.
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I have no idea what causes my flare ups and i have been using Vagifem for 5.5 years now, it isn't sex and i wasn't aware of any infections although i did have a flare that i think was caused by the exercise bike that is now used mostly by my teen daughter and not me!
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Tinkerbell in those 5.5 years, how many flare ups have you had? How long did flare ups last? Did upping Vagifem help?
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Hard to say how many, mild ones are fortunately the more common and doubling up on Vafifem for 3 nights does the trick, the more severe and i have to say even that is nowhere near as bad as before VA treatment i normally double up Vagifem dose for about 10 days, upping Vagifem does the trick, i dread the day it doesn't. I recently tried to up my Oestrogel from 3 to 4 pumps to see if it helped the flare ups but i don't feel great on 4 pumps.
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Thx. Tinkerbell. It's that kind of info that gets overlooked. It is so helpful to have all you ladies to discuss this with and understand EXACTLY what we all go through.
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Oestrogel is delivered differently and is prescribed for different replacement ;-)
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I had a rather interesting talk with a friend who is also a fab NP. She is in her early 70's, still going strong. I asked her why those of us taking local HRT daily still get flare ups. This is her response (not verbatim):
Vagifem is a very low dose of estrogen and can take up to TWO YEARS before the mucous *might* reach acceptable level to provide total comfort for women well into post menopause. She mentioned that if you are comfortable and suddenly you get a flare up, chances are sex or infection is the culprit. She also stated that your vaginal walls are still very thin and fragile and can be easily traumatized....bike riding, sitting too long, applicator causing slight cuts, or allergic reaction can cause discomfort. The good news is that in her opinion, if you found relief for long periods of time while using local HRT, then up the treatment until you get comfortable again which if Vagifem was effective before a flare up then it will work again. She also stated that peri and post menopausal women can suffer from vulvodynia which is a separate issue entirely.
I am still curious to find out how many of us do get flare ups, how often and what may have caused it.
Interesting about it probably being an infection. Two years ago i had a really bad flare up after a very tramactic family crisis and assumed it was the stress of this that was the cause, after 2 weeks of upping all dosages of everything i was no better. I then tried thrush treatment and this worked. Stress can lower the immune system and this was probably why i developed thrush.
I cant ride bikes anymore either, horse riding ok but its a bigger saddle and definately the sitting all day is not good.
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CLKD.....i was prescribed Oestrogel, which as you know is systemic HRT, purely to see if it helped the VA, some of us are very unfortunate to not manage just on topical estrogen even when used every day.
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It's really Trial and Error - important that once we find a treatment that works that we stick with it ;-)
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Just some advice please. I have had a bad VA flare up for about a month. Have increased vagifem to 2 a night for past 7 nights plus cream on outside but no improvement yet. Am I being too impatient?? I'm very sore burning itchy and practically live in the bathroom ! Any help would be appreciated. Thanks ladies
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Just some advice please. I have had a bad VA flare up for about a month. Have increased vagifem to 2 a night for past 7 nights plus cream on outside but no improvement yet. Am I being too impatient?? I'm very sore burning itchy and practically live in the bathroom ! Any help would be appreciated. Thanks ladies
Any wetness, discharge or odour? Have you had a look?
JP x
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Hi Joaniepat. No odour or wetness Or discharge it looks pink and plumped I have done a thrush treatment just in case but it didn't help.
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I had a bad flare back in March i had to double up on Vagifem every night for two weeks before i got to feel normal again.
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Have you tried inserting the Vagifem half way up?
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Hi Tinkerbell. Yes I've tried one high and one half way. I will keep going with 2 a night for a bit longer. Did your flare up just go quickly or gradually?
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Honestly I found the only thing that worked was systemic Hrt, 3 pumps of oestrogel, with Provera. But I see that is what you already use. I still get occasional stinging even so.
Vagifem would have possibly have worked for me if allowed to use every single day, but at the licensed dose was insufficient.
Have you tried an estring? I want one but no one is fitting them due to Covid. But it's a constant dose at least.
Good luck, VA is horrible, isn't it? :(
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Hi. I'm fast approaching 60 so not sure if I can be prescribed HRT ? But have not had that discussion yet with GP. I don't have a cervix so again don't know if an estring would stay in. But I'm new to all this so really just reading as much info on here as possible. It really makes me feel so fed up because it affects everything.
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Have you tried an estring? I want one but no one is fitting them due to Covid. But it's a constant dose at least.
Good luck, VA is horrible, isn't it? :(
Estrings don't need fitting, you can insert or remove it yourself. Wouldn't they just prescribe by telephone if you asked for one?
JP x
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Hi. I'm fast approaching 60 so not sure if I can be prescribed HRT ? But have not had that discussion yet with GP. I don't have a cervix so again don't know if an estring would stay in. But I'm new to all this so really just reading as much info on here as possible. It really makes me feel so fed up because it affects everything.
You can be prescribed HRT at any age in theory, but no doubt it's easier to get before you reach 60. I have used the Estring in the past and have no cervix. It sounds as though you don't need progesterone, so that's good. Some women need both systemic and local oestrogen to help with VA.
JP x
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Is the estring a higher dose than vagifem? Or can you use both.
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The Estring is equivalent to about 5 Vagifem a week. You can top it up with Vagifem if necessary, I used to do that.
JP x
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Have you tried an estring? I want one but no one is fitting them due to Covid. But it's a constant dose at least.
Good luck, VA is horrible, isn't it? :(
Estrings don't need fitting, you can insert or remove it yourself. Wouldn't they just prescribe by telephone if you asked for one?
JP x
Well, they seemed to think it would need fitting when I enquired the other day, then again the GP hadn't heard of estring. Interesting point, maybe I can insert it myself - thanks JP :-*
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Thanks ladies for all your replies. D x
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Denise T, just read what you said about having a flare up. This may not apply to you but I had problems for months. I was on intrarosa from February but still needed the cream too and still had problems. I was quite down about it as I'd hoped it would work after three years of struggling.
I had a swab done and it turned out I had Bacterial vaginosis BUT no discharge and no noticeable odour. After antibiotics and a vaginal wash, the burning and itching have gone and I'm only using the intrarosa. Don't need anything else so far. I've bought some of those ph balance washes so hopefully I won't have that problem again.
I've read up on bv and I didn't have the symptoms listed so I just assumed it was a flare up. May be worth checking you don't have an infection?
What's up, intrarosa is definitely worth a try. I much prefer it to Vagifem as it's easier to use because it's oily. I need to see how it goes now the infection is gone but so far so good.
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We are a Mine of Info. :thankyou: and age is a number ;-). End of. Remind your GP of that fact.
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I think when we have these flare ups it might be wise to rule out an infection, if upping dosages doesnt improve things dont always assume its a VA problem especially if you've been ok for a while.
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That's what my NP believes, Dierdre. She said if you have been relatively comfortable and you suddenly get a flare up, chances are it *usually* is caused by an infection that can also be caused by the applicators themselves. I know I have discomfort for a good 3 or 4 hours after shoving the dang thing up there (which hasn't seen action in many years). I still have (as CLKD has so eloquently put it😉) niggles sitting. Went out for dinner last night and ended up squirming through most of the night.😤
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I've never had an infection with the applicators ::) as they are Boil Washed after use ;-). Can you remember what you had to eat?
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Oh girl....CHOCOLATE....my biggest nemesis. I use Vagifem so don't need to clean applicators but like so many of us, I have a tiny annoying spot that causes such grief.