Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => This 'n' That => Topic started by: CLKD on April 01, 2020, 05:45:21 PM
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Thanks!
I think it's really important to remember that coronovirus and Covid19 aren't really the same thing.
We are trying to stop the spread of a virulent form of coronovirus called Covid19. Coronovirus is a catch-all name for what most of us would call the common cold.
So if someone tests positive for coronovirus it does not mean they have covid19.
The 13year old who unfortunately died had tested positive for coronovirus but that does not mean he had covid19. He could have had meningitis.
I'm saying this because people are freaking out about the word coronovirus, but at some point we all would have had it. Covid19 is different. I have to remind myself to be aware of this and not get wound up snd terrified by news reports.
I now understand why ?coronovirus? was on Richard's aunt's death certificate. She didn't have Covid19. A common cold killed her, as she was incredibly frail already.
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So it is time that the Media stops muddling up the terminology then? Will you tell Matt Hancock ;-)
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I think the media need to do more research B4 they put anything onto the TV/radio ......... now that we are more aware of how it's being put over and interestingly, the Telegraph has the graph from the 1st week: C-19, Coronavirus and 'flu death rates. Makes it clearer.
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Covid 19 is coronovirus, it's only the 19 that makes it the current strain :-\
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I've done an (hopefully) accurate explanation of Coronavirus and Covid-19 here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,47582.0.html
"So if someone tests positive for coronovirus it does not mean they have covid19."
This is incorrect. I have explained in the thread above linked to above. Do have a look. Current tests are for the novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) which causes the illness Covid-19. This is what is being tested for and what the numbers of cases mean.
The very sad case of the 13 year old who died - if he tested positive for coronavirus it means that he tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 and therefore was probably ill with Coivd-19 although there are cases of individuals who are symptomless who have tested positive for the virus.
If someone is said to have died from "coronoavirus" in the current climate - it means they have tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 and suffered from the illness Covid-19 which is referred to in common parlance as "coronavirus".
Flu viruses are not coronaviruses.
It is really important to understand the distinction so please read my new thread in the Health Section (must have posted approx the same time as you CLKD!).
Hurdity x
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But if someone hasn't been tested how can a Death Certificate state that they died of C-19? which is how this thread began :-\
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Tnx - there are going to be a lot of mis-leading DCs at this rate - cynic? Moi?
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I don't understand that detailed explanation from Hurdity either :-\
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Every briefing is followed by a question and answer session , without exception the questions are 1-testing and 2-protective equipment, what exactly are the journalists expecting as an answer to the same question asked yesterday ...... :(
Testsing and equipment are important but does it need to be asked over and over again.
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They don't know what else to ask and it's a way of getting back at the Government of the day.
If the NHS didn't have a throw away attitude all those safety gowns etc. could be sterilised. Re-used. It seems strange to me that since items were thrown away and since cleaners were outsourced, the rate of hospital acquired infections has risen.
UK Manufacturers are getting on with making clothing etc..
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Question 1 testing, question 2 PPE
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
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But how can they state someone died of either(sorry confused) until a post mortem has been done?As with that lovely 21 year old,it was all over the news,she died from Coronavirus,then they quietly told you,erm,actually she suffered a heart attack
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I wonder if its an indirect cause?
Maybe they put it on the death certificate to say that due to Coronavirus, they could not be given the medical intervention needed.
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Post mortem examinations are probably on hold? Certainly there is a lack of Coroners to report ..... my cousin in law dropped dead 2 years ago, her body wasn't released for 5 months because they were waiting for a Pathologist to do the PM - eventually they had such a backlog of bodies that she was eventually released to the family. There is a history of heart disease in the family so we felt it important to find out in order to proceed the next generations ......... now we will never know if her children/grand-children etc. are likely to be affected.
Why are so many people being labelled as having died of V-19? : without a PM can it be a certain cause of death. Would this have been 'heart disease' or 'seasonal flu' in other years?
Eddy Large was already in hospital due to heart problems ....... so how did he catch C-19 :-\ maybe the obituary will explain more?
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That's exactly my point clkd,how can they possibly know for sure what they died of without a post mortem,which they can't possibly do for a long time,this country's media seems to love sensationalising this
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But how can they state someone died of either(sorry confused) until a post mortem has been done?As with that lovely 21 year old,it was all over the news,she died from Coronavirus,then they quietly told you,erm,actually she suffered a heart attack
As the organs begin to shut down due to the infection (any infection) overwhelming the body then a heart attack is often the final cause of death.
Taz x
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But Taz,it was all over the news that it was THE VIRUS before any post mortem,after the post mortem,it was found that she did NOT have the virus but because she had a cough prior to dying everyone assumed c19 but obviously one can have a cough if one has a bad heart,the news should state facts not maybes.
Birdy,I'm so sorry,will you get to the funeral or just have your thoughts at home
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That's the young girl jaypo?
Why would anyone HAVE to wear a mask? They have to be fitted correctly - specific masks for specific purposes! and as we are self distancing. People were shown on TV last night collecting boxes for food banks, they had their masks under the chin! and the Army were not keep distancing measures when unloading a lorry. I feel we are living in a Police State already. Also, unless the masks are washable - and many can be! - how are we to dispose of them, how often to replace each and will they end up in landfill :'(
I'm fed up with being told what to do! [pass the chocolate, please ]
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Thanks!
I think it's really important to remember that coronovirus and Covid19 aren't really the same thing.
We are trying to stop the spread of a virulent form of coronovirus called Covid19. Coronovirus is a catch-all name for what most of us would call the common cold.
So if someone tests positive for coronovirus it does not mean they have covid19.
The 13year old who unfortunately died had tested positive for coronovirus but that does not mean he had covid19. He could have had meningitis.
I'm saying this because people are freaking out about the word coronovirus, but at some point we all would have had it. Covid19 is different. I have to remind myself to be aware of this and not get wound up snd terrified by news reports.
I now understand why ?coronovirus? was on Richard's aunt's death certificate. She didn't have Covid19. A common cold killed her, as she was incredibly frail already.
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So it is time that the Media stops muddling up the terminology then? Will you tell Matt Hancock ;-)
I am a bit confused by this thread as CLKD started it with the heading and then the above explanation about the difference between Coronavirus and Covid-19, which I then clarified. There has been much talk about death certificates and someone called Richard you mentioned in your first post CLKD - I don't know who this is? Have I missed something? Do you and Birdy both know him?
If it helps there is an article by FactCheck which very simply clarifies the reporting of deaths in and out of hospital and cause of death and I will reproduce it more or less in full as a separate post on this thread.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-people-are-dying-from-covid-19-in-the-uk
I really wouldn't take any notice of any sensational stuff reported in the media. I don't know about these people but hopefully if you look at the mext post you will see that most (if not all) Covid-stated deaths outside hospital at the moment are untested and unconfirmed but suspected as due to CV-19, and presumably suspected for good reason.
Hurdity x
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Factcheck: clarifies the reporting of coronavirus deaths. As per previous post.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-people-are-dying-from-covid-19-in-the-uk
From the end of the article:
?The verdict
We've seen people raising concerts that the official death toll under-reports the numbers of deaths from Covid-19 in the UK.
The numbers updated daily related to deaths in hospital. The daily tally might not match what staff in hospitals are seeing on that day, but there are a number of reasons why there is a lag in the reporting. We've seen no evidence that a large number of hospital deaths from coronavirus are going unreported by NHS authorities.
it's true that some people may be dying at home or in care homes without being tested, and so don't make it into official death toll.
The government intends to start including publishing data on deaths in the community from tomorrow, and we will see what effect it has on overall mortality.?
?The daily death toll
The numbers of deaths from the English NHS and the devolved health authorities are published together on this website. It is updated every day.
These aren't exactly 'deaths caused by coronavirus?. it's a bit more complicated than that.
The small print reads: ?The figures shown are deaths in NHS services of patients who have had a positive test result for Covid-19? deaths of people who have had a positive test for Covid-19 could in some cases be due to a different cause.?
The numbers announced in this way only relate to hospitals, and always have done.?
?Deaths in the community
So far, we have been talking about deaths in hospitals. An obvious question is: how many people are dying without making it to hospital?
it's possible that elderly and frail patients with coronavirus symptoms might decide, perhaps with input from relatives and doctors, to die at home or in a care facility without going to hospital. But if few patients outside hospitals are being tested, the diagnosis will be unconfirmed.
Until now, we haven't been able to track these deaths, but the Department of Health and Social Care has told FactCheck it plans to publish data on Covid-19 related deaths in the community from tomorrow (Tuesday).
The independent ONS will publish weekly Covid-19 data from death registrations. This will hopefully give us more insight into coronavirus mortality outside hospitals, although we will have to wait until tomorrow to see what the limitations are.?
?Cause of death
Anecdotally, we've heard about a potential problem in counting deaths in the community. GPs who attend deaths have told @FactCheck that they are unsure about what to put as the cause of death on the patient's death certificate.
If GPs do not have access to coronavirus testing kits, how can they be sure the patient died of the illness? Should they put Covid-19 down as the cause of death?
it's not clear to FactCheck how big an issue this is around the country, and the government has told us that 'death certificates can also indicate suspected Covid-19 as well as confirmed cases?.
The chief coroner issued guidance last week saying that Covid-19 ?is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of completing the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death?. The advice (which applies in England and Wales) does not say what GPs should do if they cannot test patients.
Doctors working in the community also have a statutory duty to report Covid-19 cases ? even suspected ones ? to Public Health England. This comes after the government added coronavirus to the list of ?notifiable diseases?.?
There is also detailed guidance about doctors competing death certificates and there has been new legisltation aboyut this under the new emergency powers and for those who really want to look into it here is a link to the guidance:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf
A grim subject but I hope this is helpful.
Hurdity x
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It doesn't matter whether anyone knows anyone, the thread is relevant.
How 1 sorts sensation from truth is beyond me. Especially on Facebook [see my thread about supermarkets, I won't repeat it all here ;-) ]
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One sorts sensation from truth by getting information from official sites and not necessarily the sensationalist press headlines and definitely not unverified social media reports, unless eg Twitter with tweets from official organisations like scientific or medical bodies which are generally excellent.
Really annoying that the forum character representation has not been fixed - because all the quote marks have been replaced with question marks which makes it difficult to see what is being quoted - quite important to distinguish our own words from quoting sources or other people!
Anyway hope the content of what I posted, relating to deaths and death certificates, is clear despite the ?? ?? ?? !
Hurdity x
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I can't access Twitter.
This thread was started with evidence from someone who had discussed a specific situation with a Consultant ? there will always be issues that never reach the Press or will be outside 'the norm'.
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I'm not on any social media sites,you lot are quite enough for me to handle ;D
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;D - twitter is what birds do at dawn ;)
One has to log on? I try to read some sites but don't get very far.
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I'm on Twitter but never tweet only read other people's messages, I prefer it to Facebook, I'm only on that to keep up with what my family get up to.
I've recently started following Rev Richard Coles on Twitter, he's very witty. I follow news, weather, sports, well known local people, and random other sites ;D
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If you dont like FB then dont look at Instagram!! I got rid of it. Full of "celebs" using their babies and kids to advertise stuff so they get it free. Posting how everyone needs to "be kind" and "pull together" then saying "swipe up if you like my tracksuit". They realy are loathsome.
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I came off FB,way too intrusive for me and yes Stella,you?re absolutely right,what's with people posting pix of themselves.......look everyone,look at me,see how beautiful I am?
That wasn't on FB,that's just me telling you guys about me ;D ;D ;D
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You should watch last night's Mash Report (it's on catchup). Whole section on Facebook which was very funny. Piss taking with a serious point.
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You should watch last night's Mash Report (it's on catchup). Whole section on Facebook which was very funny. Piss taking with a serious point.
Proud mum moment ;)
I watched it too. Glad you enjoyed it Shadyglade!
Hurdity x