Menopause Matters Forum
General Discussion => New Members => Topic started by: Shell babes on March 23, 2020, 07:45:43 PM
-
Hello - I'm a new member and wondered if anyone had some advice. I am on HRT 75mg Estradot and had the mirena coil fitted a week ago as I am progesterone oral intolerant. I am also on antidepressants. I turned 51 last August and my life took a downward spiral into depression, anxiety and insomnia. I am getting better but every morning i wake early with a horrible feeling of dread and doom which lasts all morning until about lunch time. it's hard to drag myself through the mornings and I dread going to bed and dread the dreads, if that makes sense. My GP thinks I am still depressed but it doesn't last all day. I feel like I'm living in my own world of torture. My DH doesn't really understand this part and it's getting to me. Any advice would be much appreciated. x
-
Hi! morning is my worst time too. I can wake in the early hours completely doomed. I used to lay in bed but now I get up, have breakfast and get on. Stops me ruminating. Also I found that making a list of chores each evening gave me an idea of what I actually achieved as I ticked them off.
It's The Change. Maybe print of the 'hints for husbands' from the Forum? and hand over ;-). Browse round. Make notes. :welcomemm:
-
CLKD - thanks for your reply and advice. Is this a peri symptom and will it last for ever? I used to love mornings and can't understand the cause. Do you think it's low oestrogen? It wakes me up at about 4.45am -5am and I can't get back to sleep. Not a great start to the day ....
-
Some ladies find that keeping a mood/symptom/food diary of use.
My early morning wakening was a sudden surge of cortisol waking me suddenly. I would wake in deep fear which would last hours until my ADs kicked in. This was B4 I got to peri ...........
How is your sleep overall, do you dream? Do you feel as though you need more sleep in the day?
-
Low oestrogen can cause insomnia, that and anxiety were my main symptoms. Woke up at 2am and worried about anything and everything, sleep 10mins before getting up time. How long have you been on HRT? Mine took 3 months to go. Insomnia is the pits, it makes everything so much worse.
-
Ladies - Sorry for the slow reply, I am struggling getting round on the site. The update is, I have now started taking beta blockers (propanolol) as I was waking up with an adrenaline surge and going into some kind of panic attack (very scary) and couldn't get back to sleep, night after night, week after week. Anyway, they seem to be working during the night. I wake at around 5-6am but still with the horrible feeling of dread and fear, almost like I am paralysed with fear. I get up and keep busy and it seems to disappear by about midday but I know it will be there in the morning again. I feel overwhelmed in a morning because of it and have to put big things off until the afternoon. I have tried upping the oestrogen patch but it made me very jittery and even more on edge so went back down to 75mg. I just can't understand where this feeling comes from .... will it ever go? I have been on HRT since October 2019. Feels like I am worrying about worrying which is crazy and just not me, now sure I will ever feel normal again. I do dream just before I wake up. Thank you for your kind replies.
-
I forgot to ask - I wondered if I am in peri-menopause. My last natural period was June 2019, does this mean that if I don't have another natural period by June 2020, have I then reached menopause. Are my own hormones dancing in the background and is this why I feel all over the place? Wondered, if this is the case, will my own hormones settle down sometime soon, it's so confusing. Many thanks for reading this and for your kind replies.
-
Menopause - the last monthly period. But we don't know 'cos they can be intermittent for a few months/years ::) mine waxed and waned for about 3 years. Then stopped.
The ovaries don't completely shut down immediately, there's always a small amount of background niggles. Once my periods stopped, my moods settled and apart from period-like pains for several years, I have been lucky.
-
CLKD - Many thanks for the info, it does make sense. I took propanolol last night (as I have been doing for the last 6 nights) 80mg and it did help me sleep and feel calmer, no adrenaline surges, still the dreaded dreads though but you can't have everything. Anyway, I am feeling more optimistic but wonder if the mixture of the BB and AD (Mirtazpine) is the reason I feel like I have a hangover today yet have not had a drink. I am reluctant to lower the dose of the BB as it seems to be working, so it's a tricky one ... I do appreciate your replies and words of wisdom.
-
Yep. I feel hung over most mornings - usually due to the combination of medication, more recently due to the busy, involved, long dreams >:( ::) which leave me knackered!
Initially I was prescribed 80mg 3 times a day for 3 weeks, then it was dropped to 40 mg at night. Due to background headaches after a few years I cut it in half then recently stopped completely. Again, background headaches, I needed to know if it was the BB and not the Virus ::).
If you can tolerate the hung over feeling stick with your combination for 3 weeks and review? Keep a diary?
-
Thanks for the advice. I will try to tolerate the hang overs etc and see how it goes. I will let you know. I have also felt spaced out today, a bit zombie like which is never great. It feels like one thing after another.
-
Make sure that you keep hydrated and eat regularly. If the hung-over feeling continues, maybe take the BB every other night?
-
Thanks for the advice. Because the hangover was severe yesterday, I didn't take a BB last night but couldn't get to sleep. I ended up taking a BB at about midnight but then could not sleep as I was worried that I felt trapped as now need them to get to sleep but am getting the hangover. I feel anxiety and worry spiralling out of control, this is not me and very scary. This morning I felt very anxious and tired and like I wanted to get out of my own skin, if that makes sense. Very restless and agitated as well as the dreads.
As a result, I am shattered today and not sure what is happening to me or my state of mind. The worrying is off the scale and the more I try to stop, the worse is gets. My husband and son want to go on a walk this afternoon as its a lovely day and normally I would look forward to this but fear I Don't have the energy - I will go though. I just want my life back. I really appreciate your advice as this is a scary place to be and hard to explain. I fear for my sanity at the moment and know that it all sounds crazy as it i put it on paper, so to speak. I am even afraid of not being able to sleep tonight as it leaves me feeling such a wreck the next day. Why is is so hard to just be normal ...
-
PS - I will keep hydrated and eat regularly as you have advised. it's easy to forget when you have no appetite because of the anxiety.
-
Forgot to say, as I was falling asleep without the BB's, I kept jolting myself awake again. .. Almost like I was sabotaging my own attempts to fall asleep. I used to just fall asleep in the past without a second thought. Now bedtime has turned into a whole new nightmare.
-
BBs aren't addictive . They are prescribed to ease anxiety by lowering blood pressure. My neighbour has the exact reaction and they make him hyper!
Can you cut the tablet in half? 80 may simply be too much at once? If you can't, take 40 this evening around 8.00 and see how you feel.
-
You?ll be pleased to know, I had a better night. I took the BB, slept better and not as much of a hangover today. I now know that it has been adrenaline surges which have been waking me up out of a deep sleep and then I couldn't get back to sleep. it's making sense now so I don't feel like I am going mad.
-
Thanks for your advice about cutting the tablet in half. The BB (80mg) is the slow release one so can't really do that. Anyway, I feel more optimitic today. Yesterday was awful as I hadn't slept, things are so much worse on no sleep. I realise that the adrenaline surges woke me up from a deep sleep and then led to a panic attack. I thought it was me causing all of this and really felt like I was going mad. Now I know there is a reason, I feel better. Thanks for your help and advice on this as I really appreciate it. I could feel the adrenaline running through me like hot water and it was scary but now I know why. I feel calmer today. 😊
-
That's exactly how it is with me: hot water through my veins ::)
Little steps.
-
Yes, little steps hopefully now in the right direction :)
-
CLKD - may I ask you - do you still get adrenaline surges or do they die off?
-
I haven't suffered for ages, it's nearly 2 years since I required an emergency tablet.
It took a while to find a medication regime that eased symptoms though.
-
Thanks for your knowledge. I had a chat with DH and I slept in the spare room last night for the time being. He knows it's not forever. I did keep waking up but was determined to go back to sleep and I did. So I slept enough, still have a hangover spaced out feeling but that is far more preferable to the feeling of having not slept. I did take a BB so have that, the Mirtazipine, oestrogen estradot patch 75mg, mirena coil and testosterone implant from Christmas - it's supposed to be replaced in July if the clinics are open by then. This morning I have decided that my medication regime is as good as it's going to get after changing everything and going back to this. I do feel full of chemicals if that makes sense, but again, better than the feeling of having not slept which is by far the worst. I am now looking forward and working with what I have rather than pining for how I used to be. it's surprising what you are grateful for when things have been so bad. Thank you for your advice and knowledge during this journey, it has helped enormously. :bighug:
-
You may find that as months go by and your body gets used to extra medication, half a day at a time ?
-
Yes half a day .... seeing the list of medication looks a lot and it's no wonder I feel full of chemicals and wonder if the hangover feeling is heading towards too much but I daren't change anything again. I just read an article on neurotoxicity which hasn't helped me. Think I?ll stop reading things apart from this site and try to make a go of it. Thanks for your support CLKD as ever.
-
If you take the medication as prescribed and allow the body to become used to it ....... I am really tired due to busy dreams but am used to it. Took a while to realise it wasn't serious ::)
Stop reading!!
-
Ok thanks, I?ll stop reading :o :oops:
-
:rofl: ....... stop the doom, breath through the dreads ........
-
Ok will do. I have the dreads again this morning really bad. I feel that of a very low mood coupled with crippling anxiety. I wish it would all go away.
-
I also have a bad hangover feeling and feel that the 80mg slow release Propanalol is too much as you suggested, I feel like a zombie. I have only been taking it 1.5 weeks, how do you suggest I wean off it. I can't cut it in half as it's in a capsule ... could I just stop taking it? Thank you
-
When I feel hung over I take the medication every other day to see if that feeling eases. If it's slow release then it will be OK.
Have you tried Rescue Remedy mouth spray ? Boots etc. sell it. I have used it and never thought whether it would work, didnt' let my brain go that far - would spray and Get On!
:bighug: been there, survived ;-)
-
Thanks for the advice. Yes, I will get some rescue remedy. I have just spoke to the GP who has prescribed 40mg Propanalol instead of 80mg to see how I go. He also prescribed some Zopiclone to try to get me back into a sleep routine. I am just so tired and stressing about sleep.
-
Did he suggest taking both? U won't know what might be working otherwise.
Personally I would get the sleep sorted - take it for 3 nights - then start the 40mg at the weekend. I found this regime worked well for me in the 1990s. I knew that I couldn't have sleeping tablets regularly so sleep was important which gave me relief.
Let us know how you get on. Once I found that I could sleep I was less anxious about not sleeping if that makes sense? If I missed a night it didn't matter as much.
-
Yes, I?ll do what you have advised, it makes sense. Why is it so difficult to sleep? I have been messaging GRL as her situation is similar to mine. She suggested that the mirena coil may be contributing to the depression and dread. This is such a minefield. I originally took Provera but was progesterone oral intolerant and was in a bad way for 3 months (felt suicidal) hence the mirena. I don't know if I have done the wrong thing in getting the mirena coil ..... I don't know what is causing what. I am on patches Estradot 75 but GRL says I may not be absorbing and to try the gel. I did try 3 pumps of gel a while back but I became very jittery and couldn't sleep so went back to the patches. I tried 100 Estradot but again became jittery so back down to 75 again. My blood test for oestrogen was ?high normal? on two occasions.
-
How did you manage sleep in the end without the sleeping tablets?
-
3 may be too many pumps all at once? The body doesn't get where it is suddenly, so it takes a while for things to adjust?
How long do you give the medication to work? It's not easy to wait for results but sometimes we need to give it time to work ::)
Do you keep a diary, I can't remember.
Any number of reasons for us not to sleep easily and it can become a self fulfilling situation. I was in a very stressful job for 8 years then found it hard to get good sleep so the GP gave me 5 tablets. 3 nights with a tablet and 2 left over. I knew that the tablets gave release. As does relaxation therapy and now I can have a 'bad' night without worrying too much. I read. Usually.
-
I couldn't cope with 3 pumps gel or 100 Estradot so I couldn't wait any longer and reverted back to Estradot 75 within the day. It felt like it made me worse. I would have given both longer if I could but it felt unmanageable.....
After taking the sleeping tablets for 3 nights, how did you get on with night 4 without the tablet in terms of rebound insomnia?
-
I have had the mirena coil for 6 weeks so maybe I need to give it more time ...?
-
Put 'mirena coil' into the search box, I think there are several threads about how others have coped. Make notes ;-)
-
Ok will do. Last question for the day (I promise!) - how did you manage on night 4 with no sleeping tablet in terms of rebound insomnia? After taking the sleep tablets for 3 nights. ...?
-
Slept. Knowing that I had 2 more sleeping tablets if necessary. It was weeks B4 I required them.
-
Thanks. I?ll have to think along the same lines instead of panicking that they are addictive.
-
They can be addictive but are designed for specific purposes.
Once I accepted that I will have broken nights I was able to relax more. It took practice. It took acceptance. The thing is not to grab a tablet if you don't drop off. Use a tablet 2/3 nights then see what happens the next few nights.
-
Thanks for your advice, it means a lot at this lonely time. I?ll let you know how I get on. I am usually a composed, laid back and relaxed person but peri has caused me to fall apart and not recognise myself.
-
Happens to the Best!
-
Update - I took a Zopiclone last night, was so worried that thought I might even stay awake, wrong - I slept all night and woke at 7am, I even dozed off a bit after this time which I have never done for ages. I think I have developed a fear of not sleeping due to dragging myself through days after not having slept night after night which I know most of us can relate to. Usually, it's an effort to get to sleep and takes a while, then I wake in the night and panic that I can't go back to sleep, almost convince myself that I can't. Crazy when you think out it. I?ll have to try and work on that. Not sure about tonight, whether I need to take another tablet or go it alone. I will read my ?Effortless Sleeper? book by Sasha Stephens as she talks a lot about fear preventing you from sleeping and what can be done about it. At least I don't have the hangover that the BB's gave me so feel more human and can think clearly today. I might do a relaxation CD later and some deep breathing etc. thanks for reading as always CLKD.
-
Not crazy. It's how the brain works. Give it a topic and it will run with it >:(
I didn't sleep well for years, one night I thought "Well it hasn't killed me yet and I still function in the day" - slept well after that. Sounds simplistic. It was. But it helped.
I had a broken night, bathroom visit in the early hours, still awake at 2.30, 3.30. 4.30 ........ woke at 9.20 ::)
-
CLKD - you are right, the brain is powerful. I will try to adopt your line of thought, almost taking the pressure off performing in the night. See what you mean about a broken night for you. I'm sure tonight will be better but the difference clearly is that you won't stress so I shall have to change.
-
I'm going to start another thread ;-)
-
About sleep?
-
Did too ............ join in ;)