Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Tc on February 26, 2020, 07:13:31 PM
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Hiya ladies 4 weeks tommorow since I had implant and mirena.
I've been tapering sandrena from 3mg slowly and I'm down to 1mg. The more I've tapered the worse I've felt. I'm feeling so sick and shaky all day but worse in mornings. Constant low level headache.and my IBS is playing up something awful. I just dont know whether that means the tapering is causing it which means the implant isnt giving me enough E or whethsr its kicked in and these symptoms are from too much E.
Or what part . Mirena. May be playing. I've bled a bit each day for 3 weeks. But I am so tired and achy all over and feel so depressed and tearful. .
Iust feel worse as the days go by and ts so hard to know whsts causing what .
I wish the clinic offered more support after implant fitting and during the transition but I can only email them a short message and so far they havent replied. There is no phone contact. My gp is sorry to say useless with HRT.
Unlike the other forms of HRT there seems to be little experience of the implant to ask others about. I cant find much info on it at all online.
I have literally no control over how my body imay be reacting to having two new "foreign objects". . It's not like a patch or a gel I can tinker with or a progesterone I can limit.. and I'm not supposed to limit progesterone on the implant anyway.as it could cause issues due the potential high levels of E the implant.can give.. it was a condition of me having it. So I'm feeling a bit alone with it all at the moment 😪
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Hi TC, sorry can't offer any advice, just wanted to say I'm sorry things are hard at the moment. I'm hoping things settle for you and improve as time goes on, as I guess it's early days. This doesn't help you now, I know but hang in there x
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Tc...you were so thinking eureka! Let's hope it's just body getting adjusted. Good luck and xing fingers for ya.
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Sorry to hear you?re not feeling well Tc just take it 1 day at a time and hopefully your body will start to get used to it. If all else fails you can always have the mirena removed, although they do like you to persevere for 6 months if possible. A friend of mine had one fitted around 6 months ago and it's just beginning to settle for her x
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Thank you ladies. It means a lot to have your support x
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Hi Tc. Sorry to hear you?re suffering so much at the moment. I can't offer much advice but I have a friend who has had both Mirena and implant so I will try to speak to her to see if she can offer any advice/knowledge that might help. She works during the day so will try her later.
Rosie xx
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Thank you so much rosie that's very kind of you x
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Hi Tc. I spoke to my friend earlier this evening about her experience with Mirena and implant. She said it took a little while to settle and for her body to adjust but she said it worked very well indeed for her. I know not everyone's the same but if you possibly can, try to give it a bit longer and hopefully things will improve for you. She only had her implant removed because she had to have some intense cancer treatment last year and she felt she wanted it taken out.
I hope this helps a little bit and hope you start to feel better soon.
Rosie63 xx
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Thank you rosie. I hope your friend is doing o.k.
Xx
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Well. I think my boobs have answered the question. Suddenly seemed to grow two cup sizes overnight!! Very painful all of a sudden too. That is unmistakably eastrogen. Yesterday was the limit, i felt so sick and dizzy. Maybe the implant was kicking in and my body has been protesting more and more over the last 2 weeks at the extra from the gel But I didnt recognise it as excess as I've never been in excess before.
So no gel this morning or from now on. Dont know if it's a coincidence but it's the first day I havent bled.
X
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Hi Tc, it's too early to cheer, I know, but I'm glad something is changing, something is happening! Please keep us updated.
Alicess X
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Thanks Alice x
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Hiya ladies. Almost 12 weeks since I had implant. . It's gone downhill.
I have resisted saying anything as there are so many other things going on in the world but It doesnt look like i will be getting any support from the clinic for the foreseeable and my doc is not good with HRT.
6 weeks in I had a blood test. My estradiol had fallen on the implant. From 378 the day before fitting (on 3mg sandrena) to 260. Once I started tapering the sandrena alongside the implant I felt it. It just wasnt kicking in. During the 6 weeks since I've felt my E get gradually lower . And then 2 weeks ago I felt a crash.
night sweats hit me like a train and flushes. These were more or less controlled even on low levels of e (150) with patch and then gel so I dread to think how low my level is now. I havent had sweats and flushes like this since right after my surgery in the weeks before I went on HRT.
Basically all my low e symptoms came back. Plus now I have mirena I m getting continous P , so I'm unbalanced and feeling the effects of the P.
Bladder started niggling. and now I'm so sore inside and out genitals are dry as a bone.even the entrance to my bottom. My skin is like paper all over. I'm still using ovestin every night and yes during day but Ive never ever been this dry and sore. Maybe the mirena is making it worse.
. When I saw gp 4 weeks after fitting for string check she said I had thrush which I treated. . 2 weeks after that womens physio said I had thrush again. I didnt have any discharge or itching and wasnt sore at the time.
My blood tests once again seem incongruous. SHBG had fallen considerably (68). Which I thought was the opposite of what should happen when E falls. TSH and LH were also very low. In single figures.and these should rise with low E.
Meno clinic is now closed. My appt has been cancelled and I cant phone them.
I was supposed to get a replacement implant. Apparently it has a cumulative effect and the real benefits increase with 2nd or 3rd. But that will be lost now.
But Even the first implant is supposed to give between 300 and 600. It's not just the symptoms evidence., Blood tests showed it already fell below thst 300 mark after 6 weeks. So something has gone wrong. And now I feel it has fallen much much lower still.
T was 2.2 and above lab range but my gp said she didnt want to change anything now I'm under c a d w. So I'm still on 1 sachet a week that was before lockdown though.and she couldnt foresee clinic would shut so I've ordered more sandrena and if she queries it i will have to phone her.
I had a box left So I've started 1mg sandrena in the last week and sweats have eased slightly. I'm now going to have to start increasing it.
Back to square one. I'm sorry to report.
Any advice greatly appreciated particularly with the problems down below. I bought a thrush test kit before lockdown. Should I leave the ovestin off for a night before using it?
Much love to all xx
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hi tc
you mention your bladder has started niggling again are you getting watery discharge with this ?
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I'm sorry it hasn't worked out. I had persisted thrush a few years ago, it consistently flared up the week before a period. The gp told me to take 2 fluconazole tablets a week apart. I'd already tried one but she said sometimes it has to be repeated. You can get generic fluconazole cheaply online.
No experience of oestrogen implant but I had a testosterone one, didn't work at all for a month then packed up after 3 months, it should have lasted 6.
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Hi Tc,
I'm really sorry you don't feel better. Honestly, if C&W nor gp can help you I would try something myself.
Your SHBG clearly isn't the reason your estrogen is low. Its not that high that it would bind too much estrogen.
Also estrogen raises SHBG which isn't the case for your as your E is low.
Mirena also lowers SHBG and has androgenic properties.
I personally would try to stop testosterone for a while as it is already above range and in my experience when my estrogen is low testosterone made symptoms worse.
I wonder if you would absorb estrogen better with oral estradiol?
Alicess XX
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Tc, I'm really sorry to hear that the implant has not worked out, I had really high hopes for you and thought you had finally cracked your absorption problem.
From what I have read on here, it seems that women with surgical menopause, ovarian failure or reproductive depression need very specific and targeted treatment and specialist help. I thought you would get this at the Chelsea and Westminster and I am surprised they don't have an emergency helpline even during lockdown.
You could try to get hold of some oestrogen to top up the implant - you said you have some Sandrena for now. Perhaps a combination oral and transdermal oestrogen like Alicess suggested would work. It has to be worth a try.
If you haven't already done so, I would use this time to do as much research on the internet as you can and if all else fails, find a specialist who is experienced and successful at treating surgical menopause. You could then sound them out and decide if you think they can help you and make an appointment, funds permitting of course. Private clinics are doing telephone consultations during lockdown and still offering ongoing support. Obviously it will cost money and only you can decide if it is worth it but it is an option.
Re the Mirena coil, it does have a drag down effect if you do not have adequate oestrogen. I was OK with it pre menopause but had problems once I hit the menopause and often had vaginal infections and thrush. It has a drying effect if not supported with a decent amount of oestrogen.
I'm at a loss as to what else I can suggest but I hope you can get some professional help.
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Thanks ladies.
Alice's I think you may have a point about the T. I'm wondering if it's making night sweats worse.. Not sure if its causing the dryness but isnt T supposed to help with lubrication? I'm sure I've read that.
I've just finished a high dose of VIT d daily for 2 weeks (20,000 iul). I thought maybe it had contributed to VA but having looked it up yesterday it seems quite the opposite is thought to be true.
Mary g. Thank you. What you say makes sense. Maybe because E has fallen I'm imbalanced with P. The mirena Is so local to that area and gives out a higher dose in the first 6 months. I believe. It's not a good scenario for me to be progesteron heavy
I wanted to take oral HRT but Due to many years of smoking and now being overweight. It was taken off the table early on.
I have put in a repeat sandrena. I have enough to go up to 2mg in the next week.
The clinic had asked for LH and FSH because on my first test with them back in October they thought it was a problem with the test that both were so low when they should be high. so I would be interested what they make of them being even lower now.
I have emailed c and w. But I wont hold my breath 🙄
Sheila. Thank you. I will do the thrush test. I only took 1 of those tabs last time. I got the generic. So it might be worth taking a follow up one as you did.
I was due to have T implant next time. Sorry to hear yours didnt work. I wasnt told the E could fail completely only that it might run out early possibly at 4 months. It might sound mad but I'm wondering if the blinking thing rejected. . The implant site felt strange. It didnt hurt at the time but about a week later it felt like I had a piece of glass or a splinter there. It was like that for about 2 weeks.and there is a raised scar now. Rejection was only mentioned in relation to T. But I am wondering. I dont know how rejection looks when it happens.
Sammie. No discharge. . there is zero moisture.
Xxxxxx
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I wonder if you have some infection round it. This happened to someone with a t implant which then came out. I couldn't feel mine at all, only the cut which lasted a few days. If it is infected it might explain why you're not getting any benefit from it. Appalling there's no telephone backup.
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Sheila,i dont think it was infected. But when I brushed over the skin or laid on it it felt like a, splinter. Sharp. It stopped suddenly after a,couple of weeks. It dosnt hurt now.
Xxx
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I think Mary G is right; because your estrogen is low the progesterone in Mirena may be to high which complicaties things even more. I think to much
P can also cause dryness. It does for me. Testosterone should help with lubrication as you say but maybe in a combined action with estrogen?
Do you notice any androgenic side-effects like more body hair or more pimples?
I suggested lowering or stopping testosterone to see what happens because you don't have much options at the moment as you can't get in touch with C&W which is indeed appaling.
Yes, oral estradiol gives a higher risk of blood clots but it depends on the individual. I' ve been on birth control for 35 years and I smoked during that time. I knew the dangers but I chose quality of life as I couldn't cope without the pill.
I really sympatize as I'm in a simular situation. I hope you will feel a bit better when you increase Sandrena.
Alicess XX
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Alice. We seem to have had similar issues dont we. How are you at moment? What regime are you on now?
As far as androgenic effects. No pimples.
but, and feel a bit embarrassed but My mons pubis is more pronounced, a lot more fat pad there (weight has been steady for 5 years now) and there is definitely a change in the pubic hairline. It has increased.upwards by quite a lot. I can tell by my surgery scar. I've never been very hairy person but when I have gone "natural" in the past, including after age 50 it has always been a lot lower and a lot less. Now its sprouting everywhere down there. . Everything I read says the opposite should happen post meno in both these things. . Sorry if that's TMI. It's not the sort of thing you can normally ask others about so I dont know if its unusual or whether it can happen even when e is low.
Another embaressing thing.is when I'm sweating over last couple weeks there is a strong body odour. I've never had that in my life even when working out.
Facial skin has been dry since meno but recently its texture its realy rough too.i had put this down to low E. But could this all be T? If so it's an imbalance of too much T for the amount of E I'm getting as I havent increased testogel. Maybe the mirena is contributing.
I havent noticed any increase in libido. I cant honestly say I've found any benefits at all from Testogel at all.
I've increased sandrena to 2 mg today. I think maybe I should stop T tommorow.
I realy need to be going over all my options now with the clinic. Maybe revisit the oral option. I've emailed requesting a phone consultation. At least I know I got a decent level on 3mg sandrena so I guess for time being it's back to that..
I've tried to put it to one side as theres not much I can do in lockdown, but its hard to do when you feel the effects every day isnt it? Especially the increasingly lowering mood and constant cortisol rushes. And cant sleep with that and the sweats
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen. You ladies realy are the only people I can talk to about this. And, as i know other ladies are, living alone I have no one to ask "do you think this or that".
So it's much appreciated
Xxxx
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Yes, especially when you live alone it's difficult as you can't ask anyone. I also live alone and I keep second guessing myself as I don' t know if I can trust my own thoughts anymore. Brain fog isn't helping much.
I think it"s possible testosterone attributes to more pubic hair. It doesn't mean it's to high in itself but opposite low estrogen maybe. I don't know about
Mons pubic though? From what I 've read both testosterone and progesterone can change body odour. Not very helpfull but it is all about an imbalance.
That's what makes it so difficult to figure out.
I think a lot of your symptoms, like dry and rough skin are from low E and maybe testosterone and Mirena are not helping at the moment. I have many of the same symptoms and I also have low E.
Every time I've tried HRT it made me feel worse, and it stayed worse. I think standard dosage estradiol just isn't enough for me for some unknown reason so I've decided to treat myself. I've ordered oral estradiol online and I'm going to take a higher dose. I'm scared but something has to change as my life and my mind and body are falling to pieces. And as you say the effects are just to much to be ignored, it"s there all the time.
Sending you a big hug 🌷
Alicess Xx
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Thanks Alice. I need the higher levels of eastrogen. . . Unaposed P and T obvs not a good combination for me.
Im going to increase sandrena again next week I think. We are always told 3 months at a dose but from trials I've read they always give it less time to reach its optimum levels. I know for myself eastrogen wise everything that didnt work after 6 weeks didnt work after 3 months or 6.
I hope the extra e helps you. I totally understand how you feel. I wish a lower dose worked for both of us but it just doesnt and when that leads to such a diminished quality of life it's no small thing. I've wasted over 18 months of my life already. We just need to be able to move forward and not feel so stuck.
During lockdown Are you talking on phone to ppl? I hope so.
.
Sending love and a hug xxx
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Thank you, Tc., for understanding x. I do talk to people but not so much about hormones etc. Most of the time they look at me in disbelieve, especially women, when I tell them how hormones can effect our mental and physical.wellbeing. Maybe it frightens them that they are not as ' in control'' over their mind and body as they want to believe. And for the last few years hormones where the only thing on my mind so I need some distraction...even small talk about the weather will do.
Do you have people around you who understand what you're going through? You have been through a lot. Do you have means or people who can distract you when the outside world gets to overwhelming?
I agree, if takes about 6 weeks to know you're on the right track re HRT, sometimes even sooner. And after so much trial and error you learn to read the signs. It''s different with birth control though, it can go up and down and up again so with BCP it took 2 or 3 months to be sure.
If you increased Sandrena I think you will feel some difference soon. Are you worried about increasing on your own? I'm not afraid of BC or thrombosis of anything like that, I'm just afraid it won't work or if it will make everything worse.
Hope you feel something positive soon X