Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: julie55 on January 24, 2020, 10:40:27 AM
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Hello I'm not sure I'm doing this right but here goes . I was on elleste duet conti but due to manafacturing probs I can't get it at the moment I have been put on kliofem and I have started to get palpitations again the elleste duet conti stopped them but now there back with vengeance and are extremely scary I've been on the new tablet two months and am told it's the closest thing to elleste duet conti I had a short ECG at docs two weeks ago he said it was ok but I am getting these horrible palpitations I don't want to sound like a hypochondriac but they are every day lots could it be the change of tablet that is causing this and if I continue with it will it settled things down I'm really worried that my heart going to give up I am 58 Ty
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Hi Julie, just off out the door so no time to answer properly, but just to say could I suggest you put palpitations in the search box while you are waiting for others to reply? There is loads on here about palpitations & I hope you'll find something helpful. I'm about your age & have got the T shirt in every colour so I sympathise. :bighug:
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I've just got to work to but Ty x
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Can anyone give me some advice pls
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Hi Julie, I have never taken either of the HRT preparations you're querying so can't give you personal experience of changing from one to the other but I see from checking that they both contain oestradiol & norethisterone at equivalent doses. If there is no other reason you can think of for the resurgence of your palpitations (eg increase in stress, change in how you're taking the tabs, change in any other meds or supplements, change of diet), I wonder whether in your case there's a difference in absorption between the two products. If so, that doesn't help you.
Can I ask, do you also have a thyroid condition by any chance? Or symptoms suggestive of one developing?
You probably know more about the situation than I do but I've googled this morning for news of future availability of the Elleste & have drawn a blank. I think in your situation I'd go back to your GP & see what they advise. Meanwhile do all you can to minimise stress & maybe try some breathing exercises when your palps are at their worst & if you have time & haven't done so already maybe do a search on here for others' experiences of palpitations? That might throw some light on it for you. Sorry I can't help more.
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Julie - another couple of thoughts - I'm sure you know this but caffeine (& alcohol) can cause palpitations. Please don't shoot the messenger - but something to bear in mind!
The other thing is, that I found flax seeds were bad for my palpitations, just in case you take these. They can be hormone disruptors with oestrogenic or anti-oestrogenic effects.
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How long sine you switched to the kliofem Julie and did it start right after you switched?
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Just another thought - tummy upset recently or persistent speedy transit, meaning tablets might be going through too quickly for proper absorption? No need to answer that of course! Just might throw some light on it. Any chance you could be anaemic? Can also be a cause of palpitations.
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Hi Julie55
Palpitations were my first meno symptom and I ended up on beta blockers which controlled them really well. No-one suspected menopause at the time ( I was 42) and I saw a heart specialist. One thing he advised, which I did, was learn to meditate. I thought it sounded a bit kooky at the time but I didn't want to take betas forever and it worked. I downloaded an audio book with meditations between 10 and 20 mins long.
Palpitations are scary and disruptive, they stop you from doing anything else and force you to wait until they pass before you can continue (awful at work). I used to be woken up by them in the night too, which seemed crazy as I was relaxed then!
The very best thing was that once they had checked my heart out and confirmed there was nothing wrong with the heart itself, it made it much easier to see the palpitations as just a thing that happens, like a hot flush. I have no idea why yours would have returned and can only assume that whilst the hormone composition of your meds is the same, the way it is absorbed or reacts in your body is different. I really feel for you but please try not to worry and let the docs investigate.
Sparkler
X
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Couldn't agree more Sparkler. Palpitations can be very frightening & if you have them 24/7 as I did for quite a few years, they take a lot of getting used to. Night time was the worst for me - like yours, the palps used to wake me & I also wondered how this could be, given medics often relate them to stress & as you say we're relaxed in sleep. I used to long for a regular heart rhythm to reassert itself, something I'd previously taken for granted, but never will again!
The persistence of palpitations from start of peri through several years postmenopause was one of the main reasons I finally began HRT. To my huge relief, the palps more or less stopped within a few weeks, but I'd also had a change of thyroid medication around the same time & both menopause & thyroid probs can be a cause. With each change of HRT, while I've been trying to find best fit, the palps have returned for a while, with Utrogestan being the worst cuplrit in this respect. Now 7+ years postmenopause I've recently had another short resurgence after a change of HRT. I also tend to get palps in response to changes of thyroid meds, whether the dose is adjusted up or down.
Like you, I learned to meditate in peri & did this every day, it does help calm body & mind over time & I came to regard it as an important coping strategy. Interesting that your cardiologist advised this as it validates its usefulness. Mine didn't suggest it, I just started it in desperation & later sought out a counsellor who used meditation in his practice. When the palps were at their worst I'd been admitted to a cardiac ward & had the full range of investigations there & before & after as an outpatient: ECGs, 24hr Holter monitor, echo, treadmill test. Only "harmless" ectopics were found. It did help to know this, but I continued to find the condition very unnerving as the palps came in long episodes of an hour or two at a time & no-one was sure of the cause at that time. It wasn't until 3 years postmenopause that I met a gynae who'd previously worked in Cardiology & she told me many women had presented with palps for whom no abnormality was found - but they were all menopausal. It would have been reassuring to know this years before!
I'm glad beta blockers helped you. I also had them for a while. They blunted the sensation of the ectopics but unfortunately didn't right the rhythm, but with a thyroid condition, reactions to meds can sometimes be different to those with a healthy thyroid, so I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying them if their doctor recommends them.
Menopause can be a terrible shock to the system & the body can really struggle to adapt, especially if there are other health issues ongoing and/or stressful situations coinciding. Anything we can do to reduce the load can only help, any form of relaxation that floats our boat & as much rest as we can manage.
Wx
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Julie, how are you? If it helps to tell us any more to see if we can help, please do. :bighug:
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HI. Just to say I had these for the first time during Peri - more vibrations around the heart area but they were scary as I had never had them before.
I am sure they are hormone related as I got them just before my period in the week I call my ' mad week' - as that is when the brain fog/anxiety feelings seem to kick in.
Had ECG/bloods and all fine. Had none for about 8 months then another week of them just after Christmas.
I agree that alcohol or caffeine could be a trigger - I try and steer off both ( Also Coke/Pepsi which is high in caffeine). Also I am sure anxiety can make you more aware of them at night.
If you are worries I would say go to the GP and go through the round of testing - that will put your mind at rest which should in itself help them. It does seem to be part of Peri/Meno for lots of ladies though.
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Hi Julie. I get palpitations too. Mine started about 4 years ago. Doc gave me propranolol which near enough stopped them. Once again peri was never mentioned even tho I was having insomnia as well. At the time I knew barely anything about menopause. I have had to cut down to 1 tablet a day because my blood pressure was too low so I do have them more.x
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Hi julie55
Just to say that the two preparations Elleste Duet conti 2 mg and Kliofem have exactly the same active ingredients in them at the same dose so unless you are reacting differently to the fillers so more or less of one of them is getting into your system and you are extremely sensitivie to changes, - then the palpitations are unlikely to be due to this and perhaps more likely due to another factor mentioned in the thread ( although never say never of course....).
Gosh Baby - that's terrible that the doc did not consider palpitations to be part of menopause and give you beta-blockers when you have low blood pressure. I wouldn't dream of ever taking them for this reason since I sometimes get dizzy anyway when I stand up and my blood pressure is low. Really they should be looking for signs of menopause and other symptomns and prescribing HRT, if you are medically able to have take it...
julie55 hope you get to the bottom of it and are improving?
Hurdity x
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Ty for your reply I stopped kliofem and the palpitations have decreased the doctor has given me patches evorol conti I have been reading comments about them and am very nervous of putting one on as there higher dose some say cut them in half start slow but I'm so unsure what to do xx
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Hi Julie, Evorel Conti are not really higher dose than your Kliofem (the dose of micrograms 50/170 mcg in the patch is lower than 2mg/1mg in the tablets).
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/postmeno.php
BUT the 2 different methods are apples & pears really. You can only try them and see how you get on. I would say that Evorel Conti was the first HRT I tried & one of the main reasons I went on HRT was for palpitations. They stopped on Evorel Conti within a few weeks. I used that form of HRT for around 2 years with trials of others in between as I didn't absorb EC well enough to get rid of flushing, night sweats & insomnia. Always went back to EC as I felt better on it than with no HRT. Incidentally I found Utrogestan was the worst for bringing back my palps, though many women get on very well with it.
You could cut the patches in half as you say others have suggested but if you do, this will represent quite a reduction in dose compared to your Kliofem, assuming you were absorbing the tablets well & that could mean any other symptoms that were well controlled on the tablets come back. On the other hand if the Kliofem was too high a dose for you going lower may suit you better.
Up to you entirely how you start - please do whatever you feel most comfortable with as anything else will add to your stress, possibly making the palps worse.
The alternative, as the palps have reduced, is to stay off HRT & see how you feel. I do hope you soon feel better.
Wx
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Thank you so much for your advice I have cut the patch in half today and ATM I feel fine can you tell me when would be appropriate to put on a full patch do you think after the next half so my body gets the jist ? I'm still having hot flashes ATM but I'm hoping when I increase they will subside once again thank you so much for taking the time to reply in such detail that I totally understand thank you so much :bighug:
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Bless you Julie - it's a pleasure :foryou:.
I can't tell you for sure what to do about timing of going to the full patch Julie, but Evorel Conti is considered to be a medium strength HRT preparation, so halving the patch means you will only be getting a low dose of hormones. The change from Kliofem may mean you continue to get symptoms for a while - we don't know how much of that you were absorbing, nor how well you will absorb from the patches. But I'm hoping you will find the continual release of hormones from the patches suits you better than the peaks & troughs you may have been getting from the tablets. You can only go with your gut instinct for now, but please don't be unnerved if you continue to get symptoms while your body is adjusting to the change in method.
Come back & let us know how you're getting on & please never be afraid to ask questions. We are all learning from each other here & there is a lot of brilliant advice, wisdom & support.
Wx
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Thank you so very much for your kind reply x I have put a whole one on for two weeks now my symptoms have not yet lessened I was wondering if it could be because it's a lower dose and if besides the full patch should I cut one in four and put that on also to up the dose .I know I have gone from one extreme to the other just want my symptoms to ease off or would you persist with the one for the time being xx feeling confused xx
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Hi Julie, do you mean your flushes have continued to be problematical or are you still getting palpitations?
If you feel your palpitations have been adequately reduced/resolved by switching to the patches but you are still getting other menopause symptoms I wonder whether you would be better persevering for a little longer without adjusting. 2 weeks on the full patch isn't long to stabilise. Your body will probably still be catching up - the hormone levels still building because you were on only half a patch for a while - likely quite a lot lower than when you were on the tablets. So your current symptoms could simply be a reaction to the change in levels. But as we don't know how well you were absorbing the tablets, nor how much you are getting out of your patches, it's kinda difficult to know what to do isn't it? Standard advice is 3 months on any new regimen unless symptoms are intolerable & it definitely feels very wrong. So, if the palps are better & you can grit your teeth a little longer to see whether the flushing resolves on the whole patch, I think I would probably do that. I found palpitations a lot harder to tolerate than the flushing, though the 2 also coincided at times. Sorry Julie - it's pretty much trial & error, I'm afraid.
Wx
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Thank you so much for your kind reply 🌹🌹the palps have reduced and are now sparodic throughout the day the flashes are now mostly at night but not as strong I will as you recomend keep plodding along with hope they will kick in I really don't want to go back to tablets now I have the patch I find them less of a problem so onwards and upwards I hope thank you for responding you are so kind 🌹🌹🌹
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A pleasure. Hope you soon feel better. Please let us know how you get on.
Wx
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The very same happened to me except I was persuaded to come off HRT all together when Elleste Duet Conti became unavailable with the suggestion I would be over the worst at 57 and 5 years of HRT. What a dreadful mistake. Slowly but surely my joints and general health suffered and by December hit a complete menopause meltdown! Funnily enough my palpitations hadn't reappeared to any degree. But once I was put on Kliofem they did reappear. Everything else recovered rapidly especially mental health almost instantly. Within a few weeks all.my bursitis in multiple joints had disappeared and I can now build up some strength and fitness. Have decided palpitations are a small price to pay and I think they are slightly improving after 2 months...fingers crossed. Not sure I want to tamper again with prescription unless it can give me my libido back after all these years :)
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https://www.verywellhealth.com/thyroid-disorders-and-heart-conditions-3231710
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AndreaP - is there any chance of getting testosterone into the mix for libido? It can be done with oestrogen and progesterone alone for some women but for others the missing part of the puzzle for libido, lethargy and brain fog is testosterone.
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I'm nearly 58 and I've had palpitations, ie ectopic heartbeats and tachycardia for about 9 years. And it definitely coincided with the menopause. I've had every test going, even recently having a two week heart event recorder. My cardiologist has told me to forget about it and get on with my life (easier said than done). They are extremely upsetting when they last for hours and I've been up all night before with them. I'm healthy, slim, don't smoke, I exercise, no caffeine and still they?re there.
I definitely think they?re hormone related and also related to the vagus nerve and digestive system. But unfortunately the specialists don't even know what causes them if your heart is ok, although mine said they could be stress related.
We have to come to terms with this thing and hope it goes away eventually. It does help reading all the stories on here though as you realise you?re not alone. :)
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Goldgalaxycat, I have had palpitations, heart flutters/flips whatever for 7 years since my last period at 59. I tried HRT but it didn't work for me. Sometimes I have a few weeks in between the palpitations but they always come back. They can be thumping palpitations or heart flutters and wake me during the night or come on during the day - totally random. I've had ecg's, heart monitors etc. nothing showed up.
I now take a beta blocker when they start and that usually helps.
I still get hot flushes and night-sweats but the palpitations are by far my worst symptom.
I'm a size 10 walk everyday and like to exercise. I'm a non smoker and have a glass of red wine with my evening meal. You are the first person I've come across who has had palpitations for years like me and that does give me some comfort. 🤗