Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: GypsyRoseLee on January 01, 2020, 06:59:05 PM
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Hello All. Haven't been around for quite a while because I went over 9 months symptom free. I used to be all over these forums because the peri menopause caused such dreadful anxiety and depression. The support and understanding I found here was genuinely a lifesaver. Prof Studd's regime slowly sorted me out and gradually the good weeks outweighed the bad until, like I said, I went over 9 months symptom free and feeling great.
But, on Dec. 12th my mood suddenly slumped and the nasty anxiety was back. No reason for it, though my withdrawal bleed from Utrogestan started on the 13th (but this is totally normal and hasn't caused any issue for 9 months). I did notice that this month my withdrawal bleed lasted a few days longer and was a but heavier than usual. So I couldn't enjoy the run up to Xmas at all as felt so horrible. Cancelled lots of plans etc.
Luckily it faded away on the 23rd, and I was back to normal feeling great again. I thought it was just a weird blip, after 9 months of bliss, maybe my body's last bid at being a pain.
But, out of the blue, my mood floored again yesterday and feel horribly jittery and horrible. Am absolutely gutted it has happened again so soon. I just don't understand what is happening. Just needed to get it all out.
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Hello GRL,
Nice to hear from you but really sorry to hear you are feeling low.
I agree that it could be your own oestrogen levels have dropped and that could explain the blip.
It might be worth emailing Professor Studd's office for some advice. It's possible you will need to increase the gel. How many pumps are you using at the moment?
My understanding is that with reproductive depression, you need to keep your oestrogen levels high at all times and if your ovaries have stopped producing oestrogen completely, you will need to increase your gel dose.
I'm confident you can get back to where you were, you are one of the great success stories on here!
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:bighug:
Set backs often feel worse than the problem because we have a good time then wham! and the 'will it never go away' mind set starts.
Are you due for a review at all? Maybe an e-mail to see if it would be appropriate to increase the pumps?
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Thank you so much for replying so quickly. I have been on 4 pumps for the last 3 years. I'm reluctant to increase to 5 pumps because I've had worse blips than this and then returned to normal. My last blip was last March and lasted 2 weeks. It was the worst I'd had for a couple of years. But it finally went, and I had 9 months of feeling great.
I'm struggling to remember but I have a suspicion that my last course of Utrogestan was only 6 days, not 7 because I was away and only took 6 tablets with me. I honestly didn't think it would matter. But now I'm wondering if just missing that one tablet has caused problems and that's why my withdrawal bleed was heavier and lasted longer than it has for the last couple of years?
I'm struggling to believe that just missing one tablet of Utrogestan could cause such upheaval though???
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Completely agree at how frustrating the not knowing is! Can there be any other condition where dosage and levels are so random? There's nothing else different going on, especially. I did come to the end of my pump pack day before yesterday though and rather than go and fetch a new pump, I used what was left which was probably only 3 and and a little bit. Again, could that have triggered a dip???
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oh that's a shame GypseyRoseLee, after such a long run of "ok-ness"! Your first post sounds like you were still in peri when you started to get sorted. I'd be with stellajane and maryG in that your own hormone levels seem to have dropped in so far as 4 pumps cannot sustain the right level. The fact that you have had 2 blips close together would seem to suggest so. Also the last couple of pumps out of a pump pack are not really what I would call full doses... well that would be my experience anyway, I had a couple of dips at the end of packs so I am always careful to ditch it sooner rather than later when you get to the last 4 pumps or so, the blobs just seem smaller than the rest. When I see a small dose coming out then I go onto a new pack.
I think the Utro can play a part for some people but I think its more likely that you own body is not producing any oestrogen at all anymore and that has meant the oestrogel is doing all the work. You have 2 choices I would say, either keep going on 4 and see if you get another blip (in which case that would confirm it but it's not very comfortable to be living in the dips) or increase and see if it doesn't happen again. If it does happen again then it may well be something else xx
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Hi. I'm feeling slightly better today which I'm very grateful for. The nasty anxiety had gone but still feel very flat. I'm definitely missing the lovely, slightly fuzzy feeling of wellbeing I associate with good oestrogen levels for me.
I turn 50 this year so it makes sense my own oestrogen could have dried up. But I assumed that, by now, I wouldn't need as much oestrogen as when I was younger (all this started when I turned 43).
*LadyBT28* I started a new pump pack yesterday so have had 2 days of full size pumps which might be helping. I will definitely be very wary of using those last few pumps in a pack from now on.
I am shocked that such a small change in dosage could cause such ill effects for me! Is anyone else this sensitive to such small changes?
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Hi GypsyRoseLee
Nice to "see" you but also sorry to see you in such circumastances - it's always good when we don't hear from members for a while who have had problems as we know you're all probably OK!
I can't really add anything - and also not a gel user so don't have the ups and downs like that. However I do regularly feel bad around the time of the heaviest bit of the withdrawal bleed even after I think the progesterone withdrawal is done with ( the bleed starts about 3 days after last dose) - and sometimes worse than others for no reason that I can fathom? I think the physical act of the uterus contracting and expelling the lining can take a toll on the body - or maybe it's just that I'm getting old - but I definitely notice it.
That doesn't explain the latest dip though - but your idea (confirmed by ladybt) about smaller doses in the pumps at the end of the pack could be to blame? I do remember that you are very sensitive to changes in levels so maybe thats it - two separate things causing you to feel wretched - and exacerbated by the time of year because we want and expect to be at our best to enjoy family festive time and then the anti-climax afterwards, after all that effort? Our bodies are not completely machines so even if we give them what we think is exactly the same regime - there are so many other variables like the weather, what we eat, vitamins, the time of year, exercise, stress etc that affect how we are and respond and tempting to look for other causes.
For your sake - I hope it's just a temporary blip and you feel back to your normal well self again soon :)
Hurdity xx
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I sympathise so, so much!! Over the summer I was a different person to the shadow I am now, argh!
I'm probably repeating what others have said, but is it worth discussing a change in dosage and checking other hormones, such as thyroid?
X
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Hello GysyRoseLee and girls
I totally emphasise. I am back here today after a long absence only due to the fact that life kicked back in great for almost 2 years and I was so busy living life again. I too dipped last Sunday totally out of the blue. I was putting it down to the stresses of Christmas, lack of routine, not exercising the same so I started exercising etc but feel completely flat the same old symptons of the past the negative feelings, not feeling good enough, all the old familar horrible feelings that I thought had gone. I think it is hormones changing and I have just emailed Heather Currie for some advice as I have been well on 3 pumps of Oestrogel having decreased in March 2019 after a breast biopsy. All was well but the breast consultant hated the idea of hrt and said I must come off it but I said no way it was my life saver but I did cut down from 4 pumps (which I had been on for a year before). I have just put myself back to 4 pumps and am waiting fingers crossed to find me again and so I wait and find myself back to the computer and reading anything I can find on peple going low again after being well. What a nightmare!! The fear of not getting back to that "well" person is scary. I will update when I hear back from Dr Currie to see if she has anything else to say.
It will pass (something I always say-I just need to believe it again) xx
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I'm still feeling very flat, no motivation, feeling it's all hopeless. At least I don't have the anxiety/dreads, but this is still highly unpleasant. I'm on Day 5 of Utrogestan, so maybe the progesterone isn't helping my mood, but I usually sail through my 7 Utro days. I just hate this, it's not living.
Fingers crossed your increase to 4 pumps is the charm BringMeSunshine. Hopefully it won't take too long.
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GRL - knowing that you got through similar previously probably won't be helpful but I am thinking of you.
I think set backs are often worse - the worry that 'is this it', 'oh! not again', 'will this never go' ..........
Big Hugs to you who are dipping!
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Thank you CLKD. You're absolutely right, unfortunately, in that when you're dipping it's so difficult to imagine you will ever feel good again.
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Birdy, I'm thinking of you today. Try to hang onto a bit of positivity (so hard I know). These dips happen because our hormones are fluctuating. So it's logical to think that they will also fluctuate back upwards again.
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Bring Me Sunshine - can I ask how your dip manifested? Mine happen within a couple of seconds, completely out of the blue. I get a split second warning pang of unease, I think 'Oh no, not this again', then BANG I'm feeling so horribly flat, filled with jittery anxiety and feelings of doom.
It's no wonder that so many women are misdiagnosed with bi polar.
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It's the physicality that strikes me. No amount of talking myself out of it works. My whole being, even my shadow, is taken over.
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Good morning everyone
Hi GRL in answer to your question yes it came on suddenly, out of the blue. I was driving back from being at a do over Christmas and I noticed that when I was talikng with the people I was with I was how can I say analising what I had just said to see if I had spoken enough and could get away with not saying much else, and driving back I was feeling negative about things way in the past that probably hadnt been negative at all but I recognised this wasnt right again. Thats how it started and I started looking for answers because your subject title "just when I thought I was finally, finally cured......."was exactly how I felt.
I thought I had cracked it back in early 2018. I even ran menopause cafes in my area to support others thats how well I was. So I find myself again putting off going to the supermarket as I dont want to bump into anyone who expects the well "me" and not this shadow again, cant hande anything that has the hint of being stressful. I want to hide away until I emerge well again. How dramatic that sounds. I feel so much guilt that my immediate family may have to go through all this all over again with me. And everyone says it will be okay you always get better. But as you say when you are clinging on it is hard to believe that will be the case. Im asking the doctor to refer me again to the menopause clinic that helped me get well when my doctors and all the anti depressants i was on over the course of 8 months didnt touch the depression for me because it was hormonal. The right level of oestrogen finally did but by then I had quit a good job of 28 years so the menopause had a massive upheaval on me. When I saw the advice saying perhaps oestrogen had dipped and that you need a touch more im hoping for the extra pump to work its magic. I have also emailed Heather Currie as she was such a great help to me in the past and see what her take on this is.
I will report back if anything i am told can help anyone else and I wait.................In the meantime take care everyone still struggling and know this that you are not alone xxx
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Birdy
Dont beat yourself up about sitting in bed we are all too hard on ourselves and what we feel we should be acheiving in this life. Even if all you do today is get out of bed and make a cup of tea then that's massive when you are not feeling yourself.
Keep going xxx
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Morning "dippy people" ;) :) :) Its horrible...that's it...just horrible, you can't say anything else about them!!! I don't get the panic dips anymore...the ones which come out of the blue and completely throw you, where you catastrophise only you don't know what about and were not thinking those things seconds before, where you can't think of anything else but those thoughts at the moment, can't act and are totally paralysing! That completely stopped for me after 7 months on hrt. When I was bad no amount of "talking to myself" made any difference to me either CKLD!
I get the "miserable flat" dips where I am lethargic, and a bit gloomy and unmotivated (but now no fogginess Birdy - which is like trudging through teacle!) and I have to drag myself to do anything, but I no longer have "bed days" which is something because I reckon if I added up how much of my life I have slept through, it seems like half!! I was in a car accident in 2010 and they added strong pain meds to the AD's I was already on and I know I slept pretty much 18 hours a day for 3 months....scared hubby silly! I do sleep in when I shouldn't and longer than I probably should but I can now actually get out of bed after a short while talking to myself!! ::) and the short talk actually works now. Maybe it is the progesterone GRL??? being a bit out of balance when it wasn't before? but how and what to do is another question altogether.
There is a bit of a pattern but not really a clear one....it has to do with my progesterone cycle just before a during the "period" part. Some cycles are worse than others but I have worked out roughly what they are and can trust now (well still learning, it's hard to trust anything when you have been ill for years!) that they will go.
Winter weather, grey days and lack of sunshine don't help.
Birdy - the "unpleasant dreams" I think have to do with the other medication you are taking. AD's of any kind gave me very vivid dreams all the time. Since I gave them up I don't dream, hardly at all, and if I only remember them for a minute after I wake but before they were very clear and very bizarre and I could relate them hours after like stories.
If only a set of researchers could put us all on a study and find out what's happening....what a development that would be for womenkind!! :o
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Hi Birdy
Here is the link to the menopause cafe's https://www.menopausecafe.net/ I did 6 in the end about every 3 months from 2018 till about summer 2019 and until the little place we used to meet in closed. We still have a small whats app group so if anyone has any news to share they do via that forum. I think it did help I even had 2 men turn up one time!!
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:lol: Them tablets are not only giving you vivid dreams Birdy, they're giving you a vivid imagination as well!!! "brunette sindy doll" - jeez I wish!! How on earth would you get that from my posts!!!..... I wish I could get that from my posts!!! :rofl:
You are about right with the hair colour - its mahogany and I'm 5' 8" and can hide my extra lbs (well stones actually) dispersed against my height. I have massive size 9 feet so have a passion for high heels otherwise I look dumpy and might as well be wearing the boxes the shoes come in but that's it!! Sindy had a waist and big boobs as I recall - lucky her! lol!
You know what I'm going to say about the oestrogel. Great that when you dropped the dose it stopped sludgy brain but itcaused mood dip....you need to keep going on the reduced dose for at least a month 6 weeks to see if you can get rid of sludgy brain and if your mood dip adjusts. Horrible whilst your doing it I know and not easy to do...but in my experience the only way to find any kind of balance. What's your testosterone regime like, can't remember?
I'm not sure that meeting face to face would be such a good idea...(It would certainly burst your fantasy bubble of me for sure!! ::). I like it that we can say what we like here and chat pretty much 24/7 and nothing else get's in the way, other than what we are talking or sharing xx
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Can you get testosterone? I found that was the thing that cured the fog. The oestrogen and progesterone didn't do it on their own. I didn't find it made me aggressive at all. In fact once I had got the anxiety and the fog under control I was a lot calmer because I was not so frustrated about feeling so ill and I was better able to cope. Once the fog lifted, it wasn't such a struggle.
How has you sleep been (other than the dreams) since they put you on mitrizapine (or whatever it was, I think that's it??). As you know I ditched all my other medications which allowed me to work out what was working on the hrt front and what wasn't but I personally think all the other stuff they give us interferes and brings its own problems. I know there are loads of ladies on here who disagree but I found they just kept giving me stuff to cure the side effects of the stuff they kept giving me until no one had a clue what was going on! (that was until the other stuff was gone) xx
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"Richard with erectile dysfuntion" :lol: well......needs must!!! Very creative!
Don't try every other day...start twice a week and not a whole pump and see how you go start slowly and try not to rip you're poor husbands head off whilst your trying. I shall watch out for the murder on the news!! xx
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This enrages me. God forbid a bloke might suffer erectile dysfunction, or lose their libido. But no one gives a shit when women are going through Hell.
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Hi Ladies,
GRL I often read your posts in the past and felt I could have written them. I had year of feeling good and have now dipped again. Sorry to hear you have too.
I think mine could be because I couldn't get my regular patches and was prescribed hrt tablets to try, which I have currently stopped taking because they made me feel worse. We have also had two periods of serious illness in our family, one being my son and one being my husband, I think the stress of this hasn't helped.
I am going back to drs this week, hopefully to get different Hrt.
Thought I'd share as I know sometimes it helps to know you're not the only one going through it xx
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I also think that the stress and upheaval of the Festive period however much one might enjoy it, can drain the body of energy and it takes a dip. As well as it being Winter when we are supposed to slow down but modern day society doesn't allow it! Naturally we would rise at dawn and go to bed at dusk.
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It must be more of a co-incidence that many of us on here have ' dipped' the first week in January? I have felt significantly OK since October - I had my health anxiety fears but I felt ' myself' - about a week ago everything looked/felt/smelt/tasted different. I even thought my sweat was different - more musky teenager - I felt weird and wired at night again, the old waking every hour was back.
Could it be lack of light, the fact we are near the shortest day? Pressure? Planet Alignment?
In last 24 hours it has lifted somewhat though - I don't have quite the same ' this isn't living' feeling.
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Hi Bracken, I remember you. So sorry you have dipped too. With you, it's bound to be the change in HRT. It's so annoying about these shortages effecting our HRT. Balancing the right dose is like trying to knit fog, and all these shortages just make it even harder.
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Squeeker, maybe our cycles are all aligning themselves via the Internet.
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It can't be affecting all of you without it being a seasonal reason? Maybe keep a diary and chart the weather plus feelings and compare? New thread ........ 'seasonal mood swings' ........
I used to hate January but now that nights are pulling out, yes really; I can see Feb., my fav month :-*, approaching - new Life etc..
People eat differently between November and Jan., which probably affects blood sugar levels = dips in mood? Also how many exercise enough in the Winter months? Whereas in Medieval times dusk to dawn would be used fully: herding, slaughtering, changing the floor covers, i.e. lavender etc., ready for winter weather; hedging; wattle and daub required replacing to make property wind tight. Wood to be chopped. So exercise all day, sleep all night ......... as we became more cultured and moved into more modern properties, the necessity altered. Chores alter as days lengthen.
More people don't have regular exercise or jobs. Impacting on feelings ........ add menopause and it's a mine field!
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Not whoooppping then ;)
Was that in 1 day .... how large are the rabbits?
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Well CLKD, I chopped wood, lit a fire, cleaned out the animals (two rabbits in a 12ft run, so a fair bit of sweeping, carrying bales of straw and hay), no slaughtering but I did go mental chopping a ton of veg.
I made a cream of veg soup and all seasonal veg.
I also cycled like a Neanderthal for a whopping 9 miles.
😇
:tulips2: Well done. You have a great day.
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Erm... Birdy ...
What does cycling like a neanderthal look like ... exactly ? ;D
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;D
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:lol: one has to be aware of fly strike :-\ :'(
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I've been ok. But just lately it seems one thing or another mainly anxiety, is striking me hard again. I feel flat, fat, and now think I'm coming down with a cold!
I'm tired all the time too, with accompanying headaches.
I'm so fed up!
Think we're going on a break to Lanzarote for a few days, at the end of the month.
Maybe that's just what I need. 🤷♀️
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I think it's the time of year...after Christmas is just grey, miserable and a rubbish time after the stress that comes with that delightful festive season ;) We've all eaten and drunk the wrong things too. Not like you to be down JD? at least you have the opportunity of a break. After xmas is a busy time for me I have to sort out all my end of year accounts Yuck Yuck and double Yuck!!...its so boring and dispiriting!
CKLD is right though, its not completely black by 4pm in the afternoon and we took the dogs to the park Sunday and I heard birds singing around dusk. Anyway on the theme of the subject matter "just when I thought I was finally cured...." I don't think any of us actually get "cured" - close maybe...but a better description is "better than we were before when we thrashing round in the chaos no having a baldy notion (NI phraseology!) what the hell's going on"! :)
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Well, I have some good news to report. My blip episode seems to be over, thankfully. It lifted in the space of just a few minutes yesterday evening. Feel so much better, calmer and most importantly very optimistic again. Feel like I'm living again, rather than just enduring.
Thinking of everyone else having a blip. Keeping everything crossed that it will lift very soon x
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we like good news GRL!!..Brilliant - long may it continue...(till the next one...cos there is always a next one at some point). At least you can trust a bit more now that if they come, they will go as well! :clapping:
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I think I'd just started to think I was genuinely cured, having gone 9 months blip free (the longest I'd gone before was only 4 months). But, I do think you're right, and that these blips will happen probably until I'm post menopause and my own cycle has fully shut down.
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GypsyRoseLee - My blip lifted today - in Homebase to be precise. I too have had a good 4 months
run of feeling OK but a bad last 10 days. Seems like many of us have had similar. Full moon?!
I was in Homebase waiting to get a tested pot mixed and everything suddenly seemed bright and
sharp and alive again. I felt happy and optimistic in that moment. Would be amazing to feel like that
all the time. Feeling like whatever life throws at you you are always calm and accepting.
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I'm taking a multi vitamin. My OH says to take his viti D as his is a high dose. 800 ui.
But I think my HRT has stopped working as well as it was. I've upped it, but get side effects from the prog, so I've started on extra oestrogen. I've fished out my old sandrena gel I had last year, so I'll use it along side my Femoston Conti tablets see if it works. It should do, it did before. I havnt felt this low and everything else since I started this crap journey!
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Yeah, I will. I'm scared I'm going backwards. Don't want to go back there....😢
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Hello ladies
I think the recurrence of symptoms is one of the most challenging things about this journey. The uncertainty of never knowing how you will feel is very distressing I find although like everyone I am grateful for the good days. These blips also confirm that our problems are hormonal and beyond our conscious control.
Wishing you all well.
K.
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I could'nt agree more Kathleen.
Its so hard to drop low again after thinking you have cracked it as all the joy goes again and you are at the mercy of having treatment tweaked again, applying for referral to the menopause clinic again, reading anything you can on anyone feeling the same and then sometimes feeling worse reading all that, as you feel is there any hope again, will I get better? We know that it does turn around again but it would be lovely just to have the actual date that it happens its all left down to hormones righting themselves again and thats anyones guess. Hope: Hold On Pain Ends You just have to take one day at a time and believe x