Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Sammiejane on December 05, 2019, 09:47:53 PM
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evening ladies
hysterectomy
i was hoping you could let me know if any of you have had hairloss or shedding since initiating estrogen only hrt and if you stopped it did the hair stop shedding ?
or if you swapped to another brand did this stop it !
or if you added in testosterone did this stop shedding ?
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Hi I thought I'd answered a question you asked me on another thread but I can't find it now!
My answer was, yes I started Oestrogel, Utrogestan and Testosterone all at the same time. I'd been on Hrt tablets prior to this for 4 months but they didn't help me x
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hi dotty
did you notice any change in your hair ?
as u know i'm on estrogel unopposed but am shedding hair daily much thinner and wondering if an imbalance at play or the medication itself ? dermatology want me stop and menopause have given me testosterone to see if it's an imbalance but surely this would make it worse !
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hi dotty
i'm wondering whether to take my 2 pumps plus 100mg utrogestan as menopause said i can try this as wont do me any harm and also take my testosterone one pump every other day and see what happens to my hair cause i believe progesterone protects the hair from testosterone effects !
what do u think ?
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Hi I'm not a doctor so I can't really comment on what's best. X
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hi dotty
i know and appreciate and advice you can give i'm seeing my GP next week and going to explain to her what's going on to see whether they agree with menopause or not x
i feel i've lost myself since starting hrt and envy those women who manage to find one that suits to be honest i'm willing to suffer anything if my hair would stop falling out !
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Hi in your position having had a hysterectomy and at yr age I think the advice is that you need the hrt to protect your bones and heart.
I think your symptoms are more likely to be due to low oestrogen. You probably need a much higher dose. My horrific symptoms didn't start to improve till I got onto 4 pumps of Oestrogel. X
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hi dotty
the problem i have is the more estrogen i take the worse my headaches are and boobs swollen more fatigue thicker head and effects my bowel i did go up to 3 pumps but found i had to reduce again although adding progesterone did help with the headaches so maybe i'll go 3 pumps and take progesterone x
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hi dotty
if it is the gel causing shedding of my hair increasing this is going to make it worse and like yourself i started one pump then 2 then 3 !
you didn't start on 4 pumps did you ? plus u had progesterone and testosterone same time ! and you still have ovaries and own hormones !
i'm either going to stop or add progesterone in !
i don't think progesterone will make a difference as other women on here don't have hairloss with estrogen only !
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Sammiejane.... I'm going to stop replying to you now as I don't like the tone of your last comment to me with all the exclamation marks. I am quite upset by your comments.
I've tried to help you and I've given you my opinion on my own situation . You are right that I'm not in the same position as you and that I did start all 3 hormones at once. That is the truth and I can't get away from that.
I'm sorry that I can't help you and I hope you find some answers .
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SJ - I think you would really benefit from seeing a meno specialist or emailing Dr Currie with your query if you haven't already.
In the meantime ask your gp to do a range if bloodtests if they haven't already for thyroid, anemia, coeliacs, vit bs, d, zinc etc which can all cause hair loss.
For any hrt you will need to persevere unfortunately for at least 6 months I would say at the same dose to see if it is working. That's just based on my own experience as only at 6 months I've got a handle on whether I need to up my estrogel any more. It is very frustrating though when feeling so rubbish.
Try and find some calming activity for yourself too as high levels of stress and cortisol will also cause hairloss. If you are low in oestrogen your adrenaline glands may be going bonkers trying to produce oestrogen (mine were, but this has stopped now). Check out Headspace app, yoga, breathing activities, brisk walking, art and crafts etc.
You could get Liz Earle's Menopause book and Dr Newsons menopause book as both are excellent sources of information and help. Lots of great podcasts on Liz Earle and The Menopause Doctor websites. Liz Earle in particular has lots of general wellbeing podcasts which are really interesting and helpful.
Apologies if any of this sounds patronising or if you have tried it already.
You will get there eventually I'm sure.
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hi dotty
that is completely your choice not to reply .
you have misread my comments and it wasn't meant as anything untoward.
i didn't use exclamation marks they were question marks asking you if you started straight on 4 pumps or increased it slowly so my apologise you have been offended.
bobidy
thanks for your reply and yes i have had all blood test done already include autoimmune and zinc thyroid vit b12 vit d iron etc all ok x
i'm currently already under a menopause specialist as early menopause and they are not to helpful as have kind of left the decision up to me wether to stop it swap to patch or add in progesterone and testosterone at the moment they advised to stay on the gel as i'm obsorbing it ok and add testosterone every other day (have been on hrt 1 yr) but there is a risk that if it's not an imbalance causing my hairloss then testosterone will make it worse x or i can stop for 4 months see what happens and then start again but the downside to that is whether the symtoms are bad but i guess i less i try i will not know x i guess i'm trying to get opinions from lots of ladies on here that currently take the same medication as me to see how they have got on to try and help me make my decision. i'm scared that adding in progesterone or testosterone may make no difference if it is the medication causing hairloss as staying on estrogel it will just continue.
i'm seeing my lovely gp on the 13th so i will see her opinion to . i'm guess i'm one of people who handle situations better when there's no choice i'm just told x lol
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Hi
I agree with the comments above that low oestrogen and stress can cause hair loss. Before I started HRT my eyebrows and eyelashes were noticeably thinner which was quite distressing but they have grown back. It took some months though.
I'm not a medical doctor but I'm not sure that testosterone will help with scalp hair loss, (though it's good at giving me hairy legs where I apply the cream!)
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Hi Sammiejane....I just thought I'd briefly share my story with you which might just give you a little food for thought.
I'm much older than you, mid sixties now, but I remember clearly when I first started going through menopause at the age of 50 my horror at the amount of hair I lost in a short amount of time. I went to the doctors shortly after because I started getting other horrible symptoms and she suggested trying HRT. After talking me through the pros and cons she made it clear that it was totally my decision and I decided to give it a go. I was on the same HRT for 13+ years and it worked for me until it was discontinued a couple of years ago.😞 However, looking back, I have continued to shed hair, although not to the extent I initially did. My hair is definitely thinner along the parting and fringe area but thank goodness, it hasn't go any worse than that.
So over the last couple of years I have been trying to find another HRT that deals with the symptoms without giving horrible side effects. At the moment I'm trying Oestrogel, Utrogestan and Testogel. Only 2.5 weeks in and still very up and down but I'm determined to stick with it for the suggested 3 months in the hope it will settle. I am like you in that it would appear that the more gel I apply, the worse the side effects are so at the moment I'm only applying one pump. My hair loss is a little less I would say on this regime though.
Sorry for the long post but I guess what I'm saying is that, in my non expert opinion and as other ladies have said here, I would say that your hair loss could be due to low oestrogen or hormone fluctuations. It's definitely a case of trial and error both for us and the doctors that try to help us when it comes to HRT and unfortunately it can take a long time to hit on ‘the one' as I've found out over the last 2 years 😏 Once you find the right regime and dosage for you, I'm sure you will see an improvement.
Try to keep positive and I hope you find the answers you're looking for soon.
Rosie63 x
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Hi Smmiejane, i get your frustration with the hair loss ,as you will know i have had conversations with you before about this, my hairloss only tarted after re stating HRT i had none before, but trying a patch with high progesterone in it ]Evoral Conti] with Norethisterone as the progesterone,my hair loss got 10x worse within 4 weeks, so as far as mine was concerned the progesterone din't help it made it worse
I am well post meno, so the actual meno[ause didn't cause my hair loss, it could have been the restarting of HRT or as my dermatologist thinks caused by stress,
I think it could be a mixture of both as i had a lot of stress at the same time as restarting the HRT,[Livial] although been on that years ago, and no hair loss
I dont know what the answer is, but like you i am doing all i can to get answers,and can empathise
It can become an obsession, i am looking at getting a hairpiece now as i don't know what else i can do, and can't go anywhere i can't wear a hat :(
Oh and i have had all the tests too1
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hi rosie 63 and jaycee
thank you both for your comments x
i feel i'm at crossroads as need to make a dicision but it's knowing the right decision to make not only for my health and wellbeing but also my husband and kids as they have to indure this as much as me.
the pros of the gel is that has helped with Va together with ovestin once a week , twice a week made me to wet down there and it has help dry mouth and eyes and obsorbing enough to protect bones, flushes gone.
the down side is i have now got hair loss mood swings depression aniexty weight gain. daily headaches and increases to 3 pumps actually makes me constipated don't know why but i have IBSC which is irritable bowel syndrome constipation side plus slow transit through GI tract - hence why they don't want me on tablets as to much estrogen can circulate through my system and remain there ? not sure if this is right but i roll with it so i have options of patch or gel !
i tried the estradot patch it suited just remained having headaches and got sore boobs but i think because i jumped to quick from 50-75 patch as found the 50 wasn't keeping hot flushes at bay i still had hair shedding but was only able to trial them for 5 weeks because they went out of stock ! so not sure if i had been on them longer hair shedding may of improved or made no difference . i changed from the gel to patch as when my bloods were taking it would appear i wasn't absorbing the gel.
so i'm back on the gel and my menopause want me to continue on it because i am obsorbing it now as my latest readings which i had to have two lots of bloods done 10days apart showed a level of 368pnol and then 113 pnol there is quite a difference and queried the high n low but they weren't bothered but i'm now wondering well maybe the fluctuation could be impacting my hair loss .
so i'm a cross roads as to whether too take a break establish if it is the gel causing shedding this will need to be done for 4 months due to hair cycle .
or add in progesterone rather then testosterone first to see if it's low progesterone or imbalance .
or do i swap the gel back to estradot patch now they are back in stock .
i don't know if any of you know but if a specific medication is causing hair loss i know if you stop it hair shedding should stop but do you know if you change the medication to one that potentially doesn't have hair loss as side effect would this also stop it ?
i just don't know what to try first do i stop or do go with an imbalance at play i feel i'm in a better place then a year ago mentally but that's about it x
thank you ladies any advice appreciated or if you were in my shoes what would u do ? i know your not doctors and of course i will run it by my Gp x oh and to add my testosterone menopause have said is low 0.9 nmol and SHBG 123.8 nmol x
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Hi, you might have missed my post at the bottom of the previous page. I think it takes a good few months of HRT to notice any changes in hair loss. If you've been switching doses and formulations it will take time to establish that.
As I mentioned in my other post, testosterone may not improve scalp hair loss even though it promotes hair growth elsewhere on the body.
It sounds like you are distressed about it, which is understandable, but stress could make the problem worse.
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Hi Sammie,
Yes this hs happened to me. It started off gradually and now I have bald patches at the back of my head/diffuse thinning and very bad receding hairline. I decided to stop all HRT to see if it improved. When I stopped the hair loss slowed considerably and I had baby hairs on my hairline. Adding testosterone/progesterone to Estrogen didn't help. It only stopped when I stopped taking it. I have decided that I cannot cope without medication so will be looking to get a wig/hair replacement system in the new year.
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sjpercy3 ; your hair loss sounds exactly like mine, bald patches at the back of my head, hairline is not receding, but just behind hairline has got much thinner in the last few weeks,in fct a small bald spot
I had a conversation with someone a few months ago wh othis happened to, and she put it down to fluctuation in hormones ,changing from i type of HRT to another
Since getting settled on another type her hair has grown back to as it was originally
Dermatologist said there is some very thin hair there and it will grow back,
When is the question ?
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Sammie, mine has stopped shedding since coming off Estrogel, only been off it for 1 week. So that puts the 12 week hair cycle scenario to bed.! ;)
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hi anaise
well i've been of my estrogel 2 days ! lol not through choice but my little boy was rushed into hospital and we only came home tonight so haven't took my estrogen . hair shedding same maybe a few more x
sleep was ok first night but second night up n down but think that was more to do with my boy ! i've been on estrogel a year and have lost 50 percent hair so i don't know whether to continue to stop it ! and see
how have got on being off it for a week !
i'm so glad u posted as i've been wondering how u been and if you had stopped x are you remaining off or going on a different one x
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hi birdy
dermatology believe i have telegen effluvium and has been triggered by initiating hrt
i have receding hairline forehead mild and thinning slightly wider part well i have a parting u can see before my hair was so thick i never had visible parting . i've receding behind my ears and lost a lot nape of neck .
i'm currently 5 days off hrt and shall see how i go with hair shedding if continues i think i'll start hrt again but take all 3 hormones at once as i lost them altogether i may need to replace altogether .
when i read up hairloss on estrogel it says it's frequency unknown (cannot be estimated by the available data ) so u don't know if happens a lot or not much !
with estradot patch it list hairloss or alopecia as rare ! so maybe i need to swap.
as i've said before i have had no issues with hormones previously when taking combined pill microgynon with has teosterone derived progesterone and synthetic estrogen but then it's a specific dose and took together !
all a mine field one i'm getting tired or walking through ! lol
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hi birdy
thanks for the reply but i'm not stressed that's the thing i don't get stressed i have a chilled outlook on life i'm concerned about my hair shedding but i'm not stressed about it x
i've stopped my hrt day 5 and my mind and body feel great ! vaginally time will tell and hair shedding reducing so we shall see if it stops !
not sure what i will do then if it stops i guess next would be try all 3 hormones at once ! as estrogen on its own isn't an option as my hair will shed again well on estrogel anyway but can't see a patch being different or sandrena gel .
we shall see how it goes !
thanks
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Sammijane ,you mentioned in an earlier post that if your hair didn't improve you might have a scalp biopsy, from further posts i assume you didn't, but i am having it done next month,by the Dermatologist i have been seeing for my hair loss
He said to have it done at the hospital would take months of waiting,so doing it at the surgery
Hopefully will get some answers,but i have been reading on mumsnet about people using "Nice and Easy hair colour,who's hair has fallen out, so wondering about that too, as i used a new one of theirs just for roots,around the same time everything else happened, so very confused now, but i am going to find out what was new in the roots version, as it was a different ingredient , [chemical?]
Trust pilot have some very bad reviews on it
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hi jaycee
please keep me posted how u get on .
i didn't have biopsy as the dermatologist believed it was telegen effluvium due to pattern of hairloss .
i've been off my estrogel now 3 weeks tomorrow and feel ok but sleep is rubbish x
hair is still shedding though x
remind me again which hrt you take ?
my gp wanted me to have progesterone blood test because although i have no ovaries or uterus she wanted a baseline to see if it's an imbalance in the hormones at play x
i think i may just take all 3 together because i've lost all 3 and my mind is telling me to replace all 3 together as we're lost together x
i just don't know anymore and being only 40 do hard to be loosing my hair and when i took hrt i thought i'd feel great again but after a year not really and seem to have more issues now weight gain depression aniexty hairloss which j never had before x
it's strange because i've never had hairloss on the combined pill x which is stronger but then as it is set estrogen and progesterone and the dose is configured to a specific ratio to one another and that it overrides the ovaries it's more a steady consistent daily dose x
i'm just unsure what to take for the best i'm not over keen on patches as the thought of having something stuck on me and then on holiday ensuring it's covered over not in the sun etc x
i've been reading up on femoston conti and also sandrena but this list alopecia as uncommon but estradot patch list as rare and estrogel lists as frequency unknown in extensive post marketing results but not sure what this means does it mean that there's very few reports or they could be lots of reports but frequency is unknown ?
hope all goes ok and you find out your trigger x
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hi ladies
just to give you an update as it's been 3 weeks since stopping the estrogel x
the first week i thought great shedding has stopped however the 2nd and 3rd week i would say shedding is worse well more hairs in brush x
with regard to other symptoms the only difference i've noticed is my sleep is not as good flushes only one or two at night not bothersome really .
i don't know whether to continue a little longer off it as worried now shedding will continue to worsen and further symptoms may return the lower my level of estrogen goes x
my Gp has recently done a progesterone blood test to get an idea of a base level but i guess this will be non existent with no ovaries x so i'm thinking maybe to go back on the gel and incorporate utrogestan as well and see if this helps the shedding as in my case it maybe i need a balance or am i rushing things and really need to give it 3 months x
please help
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Sammiejane, i stopped the livial in case that was either causing the problem or exacerbating it, but still losing some when i wash my hair, don't notice it otherwise
My daughter was told it is the fluctuation in hormone levels,and keep changing HRTs wont help, but as the situation is with patches,there isn't much choice
The derm said mine was Telogen Efluvium but still want's to do a scalp biopsy,in case there is something else going on as well,as it considered chronic if lasts longer than 6 months
I think when it is said frequency ubknown it probably means not often reported, which might ,mean it doesn't happen a lot
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hi jaycee
it's funny because i'm loosing less when i shower and wash hair but then the days of not washing i'm loosing more in the brush .
dermatology have said to stay off minimum of 3 months due to hair cycle but surely if it was the medication it should decreasing in shedding not getting worse x
are you taking any hrt at the moment ?
have you had ovaries removed at all .
i think i will take all 3 together when i go back on it at least i've tried all routes then ie estrogen only , no hrt and then all 3 x lol
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hi stella jane
would you say that hrt has helped to skme degree you hairloss or has it got worse ?
what hrt are you currently on x
thanks
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Since coming off Estrogel my hair is growing back along with my eyebrows!
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Sammijane,i am on no HRT at the moment, still got ovaries, no hysterectomy,no thyroid problems, ferritin not too low
Caused by stress initially i was told, but went on livial around the same time, well post meno, so not caused by menopause,had no hairloss at meno, only the last 2 years,
Still pretty stressed but not as much, before it was stress like grief stress
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hi anaise
i'm into nearly 4 weeks and hair still shedding so not sure if the gel was causing it and if maybe it was imbalance at play instead x
as my hair feels thicker at times but i had these tiny fine hairs on my hairline at forehead which since stopping the estrogel seem to be vanishing so maybe it was helping x
my dermatologist has advised i need to give it 3 months minimum but i thought it should be reducing in shedding and in some ways it's worse !
so confused and wish i'd never started hrt
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hi birdy
i hope so x lol it's most distressing being so young x
i was just hoping i guess that if medication was causing it then it should be reducing like anaise mentioned she stopped hers and a week later stopped shedding i guess where all different i'm just a little gutted as few symtoms of meno returning hot flushes and hoping i'm not back at square one in 3 months time i.e lost all estrogen xx
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Sammiejane,
This may be a shot in the dark but did you say you're a smoker? A friend of mine has just gone into peri, not started HRT yet and is suffering with marked hair loss, and she's been told it could be linked to her smoking. She's not on the pill or anything (partner has had the snip).
She's gutted as she thought she was aware of all the risks, but not this one. She's tried to stop a few times over the years but I really think this may be the motivation she needs.
Not sure if this has been mentioned to you at all?
HTH,
S x
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Birdy,if what happened 12 weeks ago causes hair loss,and goes in 12 week cycles,which i was also told by my dermatologist,why isn't it growing in the next 12 weeks,or the 12 weeks after that,
My hair has been shedding for 2 years now
Not growing back at all.scalp biopsy now in 3 weeks,and doubt it will show anything different :'(
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hi birdy
have you suffered hairloss or thinning ?
to all u ladies yes i'm a smoker not a heavy smoker 5 a day and have smoked for years but i doubt this is causing my hairloss as i had my ovaries and that removed 5 yrs ago at age 35 and have smoked the last 5 yrs with no hormones as no hrt supplemented for a good 4 of those years and had no hairloss at all infact the opposite my hair grew fast and thicker . my hairloss has only started since initiating hrt !
i've stopped it to see if the gel was making it worse but still shedding so i've decided to try a combined hrt estrogen prog and test at the same time and bring hormones up in balance .
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I don't believe hair loss is connected with smoking, smoking is blamed for all sorts of things, but i smoked up to about 6 years ago and had no hair loss,
Like Sammijane my hairloss started when i went on HRT but only for the second time
I had previously been on the same hrt years before, and started getting night sweats again, and flushes had never gone,but i also had a lot of stress going on too, so could be a combination in my case
Wish i knew
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Sammiejane how is your diet? They mentioned on the TV yesterday that they're seeing more people with hair loss because of deficiencies in a vegetarian or vegan diet. If you google it quite a lot comes up.
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hi jaycee
which hrt were you on for years ? not the second time around x
i don't know whether to take all 3 hormones and see or start E and T as progesterone is not needed or start e and p then add testosterone later x
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Sammiejane when i first went on hrt i think it was called Trisequence,then Prempak, which i think is discontinued and i stopped that one when i found out it made from horses urine and how they suffered
I then went onto Livial, which is the same one i went on for the second time, but no hairloss at all before this time
I felt really well on it the first time round, but i suppose your own hormones change too, so wont have the same effect probably
Since stopping it though this time i have painful knees,and can hardly get out of bed easily as my lower back aches,
Can't win
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hi jaycee
bless you i feel for u x
it's been a month today i've stopped and hair still shedding i'm gutted it's not worse but not improved which is leading me to think ok maybe it's not the estrogel causing but more of imbalance as in not taking the other hormones even though i have no uterus or ovaries so this will be my next trial and then it will be a case of changing estrogen ! but i feel better mood wise and not as fatigued without estrogen even though my sleep is worse it's strange but flushes at night are back not bad but a couple and can't fall asleep hence why i'm on here lol x i wish i didn't have to go through this at 40 if i could add 10 years i wouldn't be on anything xx