Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: juliemargaret on September 07, 2019, 11:33:31 AM
-
Hi all - a question - if I have been taking 3 pumps of estrogel daily for 3 weeks but no progesterone (utrogestan) yet, and have not yet had my period, could this mean my lining could be worryingly building up or is there no cause for concern just yet? (Waiting for my natural period to come so i can start a sequi cycle - want to do it this way so i can try and tie it in as best as can and as ideal)
Just want my bleed but not happening yet...was 7 weeks since last and i feel one is coming ...or hope it is but in back of mind a little worried about the fact ove had no opposing progesterone for 3 weeks.
Any thoughts?
-
I'm sure you'll be ok for 3 weeks x
-
Thanks as always dotty. Still no sign of period.....feel yuk though. Keep ypu posted. X
-
Hi Jmargaret,
If you're waiting for your natural period to come, why are you on 3 pumps of Oestrogel? Is it controlling perimenopausal symptoms?
A natural bleeding in perimenopause can come in 3 weeks or in 10 months! What if it doesn't come? I understand your idea of trying to synchronise your natural periods with HRT, but it's virtually impossible to predict your periods in the late stages of perimenopause.
Three weeks without progesterone is not an issue, but depending on how long you will postpone it until that natural period occurs, can be dangerous.
BeaR.
-
Hi bear .....i agree.which is why im a bit uh huh ...but know will have to start utro asap. My thing is...not feeling great...not even on 3 pumps gel. Feel same...really come.to think of.....energy low and mood flat...bladder been awful...more so last few days and like before hrt so i know my body is gearing up for a bleed as all usual pmt symptoms. Been on hrt nearly 5 months....cant say ever ive felt great or " ohh i feel good this is helping". Not felt ridiculously bad BUT...yeah..still flat....so.cant be helping much. Ive had no go in me of late (altho doing stuff and as normal) and motivation crap. No libido.neither which havent had a long time....altho i do parcipitate and enjoy and eith open heart n love but doesnt sort of come naturally to me anymore - ie..just feel horny cos i can and do! But as i said i do enjoy when happens and no probs with O etc!
I started on 2 pumps..and alternate eve 100mg vaginal utro. Realised my gp had put me on a conti (100mg daily days 1 - 25 orally which i decided i couldbt do so went off license and did alternate and vag) but i started feeling so fatigued and flat still so wanted to try sequi at least before i quit. So upped to 3...and as u know waiting for bleed so i can start the countdown to day 15. Need my period as feel sh**. Look it too.(or so i feel - my husband said i look fine but just a little tired and look like i usually do when im due to come on !)
So in a nutshell..your question....of why. I dont know..but do know i cant rave about even being on gel only! I hoped wouod feel amazing and mojo back and brand new. ..at least just so could say yes the gel is good.....(and then take the utrogestan and deal with whatever that brought with it which i fear will be horrid fatigue again). Just said to my hubby....i feel like tapering off this gel now.....stopping altogether and see how i feel. I am fed up. Was.also thinking that before i do this maybe go get a private load of bloods done.see whats what and.where estrogen levels.are etc as no clue. Was thinking this may help at least paint a picture? My gp is great but been hard getting an appt with her.of late and will drag on. x
Ps....my hair was shedding awfully before hrt iwas low in zinc. Hair seemed to settle now on hrt seems.shedding ....after washing and brushing. In my heart i know somethings amiss and has been a good few years but i tried the natural way...but couldnt seem to get myself to how i felt i should and was.deserving of feeling...hence the hrt. I hoped estrogen is..was..the missing link. I know its a journey....but feels hard.and scary and i feel been all for nothing at the moment.x
-
If you have pmt symptoms why not start utro now? If your bleed starts then stop even if you haven't got to 12 days.
-
Hi sheila... well i was waiting for my period is all. I know unpredictable but hoping comes soon. Tbh dont know arse from elbow anymore. My body and rhythms arent my own!!!! :-\
-
Hi again Jmargaret,
Hopefully your PMT symptoms mean that your period is coming soon. Fingers crossed for you!
BeaR.
-
Thank you bear....i hope so too.! If nothing by 15th ill just start and add the P and give it a go....unless decide to stop altogether before! Wondered of i may have too much estrogen and not enoigh P to balance stuff out hence me not exactly feeling great. Xx
-
Start with the Utro on the 15th Jmargaret - and stop worrying...it's not helping! :) Don't go any longer without the utro otherwise you will just worry more. Bear is right if you are peri who knows when your next natural period will be?
In meno our body and rhythms are not our own that's why it is so awful but it is something which will happen and all we can do is set up some kind of system that allows us to control it and a gel/utro cycle does that.
The thing is, its all about balance. yes estrogen is supposed to be the "feel good" hormone but it cant fix everything on it's own. Yes Progesterone does get "bad press" on the forum for some of us but even if it causes some problems, it has a job to do together with the oestrogen. The third thing is testosterone and bodies need it. It has now become more acknowledged that it can be the "missing" hormone in the HRT regime but you wont be able to get it unless your oestrogen and progesterone are working well on a balance basis. So I would say "get on with it honey" ;) The longer you mess around with no clear picture the longer the period of uncertainty. Get 3 months over with on a "regular" cycle dose of both and then the mist might clear a bit. You will never know what the "right levels" are for you until you do.
There is nothing to be scared off...just take the bull by the horns and let us know how you get on. We can advise as you go but you need to find out what happens in the 3 months of a regular gel/utro cycle. Much love. xx
-
Good advice Ladybt xx
-
Hi Ladybt28 - thanks so much for your response. I read it and took on board all you have said. And yes im.going to statt the utro on the 15th - I have to as need to move forwards with this as you said (take bull by horns etc). Sorry for late reply - had a few days off the forum as i needed a break from it all (the thinking about hrt etc and not you lovely lot!).
I am absolutely so tired and have had a lingering left side eye pain/headache most mornings on waking (dull but there in the background). Woke this morn again and did my usual duties and all I want to do now is go back to bed. Im just so sleepy its NOT normal. Was going to the gym as I do often and as planned but still sitting here and fighting sleep. Somethings off for sure. X
-
Hi jmargaret
As has been said - you could be waiting for months for a natural period .....the usual advice when you start cyclical HRT is - as soon as you start the cycle on oestrogen only - that counts as Day 1 and then on Day 15 of a 28 day cycle (not the 15th of the month) you start the prog to reset the cycle. If you are peri then you may bleed at the wrong time but if periods are few and far between the bleeds should mostly come towards the end of the prog phase or just after you stop and the return to oestrogen only.
Women who are late peri or post-meno do sometimes stretch the cycle and take the utro monthly as Ladybt - so it means you only have 12 bleeds per year instead of 13 and it's easier to remember the date. Some of us stretch it even more (with doc's approval) so we take prog less often again eg have a 5 week cycle or more instead of the 28 days or calendar month.
Therefore I would say no reason not to start it straight away and get your cycre going...
I am puzzled by your exhaustion though - this would not be a usual reaction to oestrogen only (could be another reason?) - but if you are peri maybe you have ovulated anyway and progesterone is being produced - who knows? You can only try different regimes ( for a decent l4ength of time) and hope that you find something that makes you feel better overall than before...
Hope you feel better soon :)
Hurdity x
-
Hi Hurdity..was also hoping you would join the other lovely ladies with some advice. Thank you.
Ohhh i feel so lost. Sound dramatic i know. And yes, I too thought the gel.only days would be my golden ticket to the willy wonka place of what hrt has to offer (all the good feelings and stuff!!). I feel the same.sort of waking and overwhelment and no motivation I felt pre hrt nearly 5 months ago and my reasons for sourcing it! All my bloods prior were ok apart from low zinc which we supposedly got back up to ok levels after some supplements.
I was.waiting for day 15 to make it easier to coubt to be honest (well originally was adamant my natural bleed would come by the 1st but as previous posts - nowt yet)
So yes....feel lost and a bit scared as i dont feel myself. I mean im ok yeah but this non improvment is worrying me. I managed to get a gp appt this morning for 2.weeks time. I need to fill her in (and as fab as she is im not sure she will be as clued up as i hope neither). Was looking to go private for support but no appts until nov and dec. I feel i need a whole load of bloods taken for everything and also including to see where my estro and P levels ar eif this is evem possible as i feel i need a picture at least. Is there anywhere i can go for this, like a womans MOT?
Sorry i started. Is there anyway im just missing the progestetone? Is there only so long out bodies like to be on gel alone for - ie - more estrogen before it wants or needs prog to get a balance? Im praying this is all it is and i need prog.x
-
Good post stellajane...
Hang in there jmargaret - it will get better :)
Hurdity x
-
Thanks so much both Hurdity and stellajane. Im trying.
I may even start the progesterone tonight, sooner know the better!! Im.gonna maybe try 100mg of utro for the 12 days (vaginally too) - will this be ok? I know 200mg the licensed.dose but beibg vag would 100mg be ok? Sorry for more questions. You ladies are a godsend. X
-
Perhaps read up on endemetriosis and discuss it with your gp before you take a reduced dose? You will need regular scans. You seem to be worried about hrt so adding an unnecessary health risk may not be the best move.
-
Thanks sheila. I know x :-\ :-\ :-X
-
Girls ....started my utro sequi last night - 200mg. Keep you all posted x
-
Haha stellajane....been on my way for 5 months or so i thought!! Heres hoping this new way helps. Feel a bit brighter today....but poss a placebo feeling hahha but ill stay hopeful ! 💚
-
Perhaps read up on endemetriosis and discuss it with your gp before you take a reduced dose? You will need regular scans. You seem to be worried about hrt so adding an unnecessary health risk may not be the best move.
I might have missed this (easily done as I tend to skim read!) but I don't think Jmargaret mentioned endometriosis ??? . As far as I know (and I stand to be corrected!) HRT does not cause this (although can exacerbate it with certain preparations) and if you had endometriosis you would probably have had it diagnosed when younger and would know you had it.
Thanks so much both Hurdity and stellajane. Im trying.
I may even start the progesterone tonight, sooner know the better!! Im.gonna maybe try 100mg of utro for the 12 days (vaginally too) - will this be ok? I know 200mg the licensed.dose but beibg vag would 100mg be ok? Sorry for more questions. You ladies are a godsend. X
Nevertheless - although research has shown the efficacy of a reduced dose of progesterone ( for a given dose of oestrogen) when used vaginally compared to orally - in keeping the womb lining thin - as sheila99 said you don't want to add unnecessary health risks just at the moment by going off-licence. The potential problems from insufficient progesterone could be endometrial hyperplasia resulting from over-thickened lining which can if untreated sometimes lead to cancer.
If this regime suits you - then depending on the bleed you get you might be able to reduce the dose of progesterone after discussion with your doc.
Anyway good luck with it - nothing wrong with a bit of placebo either - it helps part of the way!! The rest is down to the HRT!
Hurdity x
-
Sorry, meno brain again, had endometriosis on the brain as I'd just read something about it. I meant endometrial hyperplasia which gives you a higher risk of cancer. I hope you find utro suits you.
-
Don't worry - I have meno brain too! Often!
Hurdity x
-
Hi both Hurdity and sheila.
No i didnt mention endometriosis but nevertheless it geared me up to taking the licensed 200mg anyway !! Know what you both mean x
Hurdity - i have little period type pains ..not bad but there...and a little bloody discharge. Feels loke a bleeds coming and think due to last nights 1st dose of 200mg utro vag. Need to ask you - what do i do now? Just stay with it - ie..let whatever bleed comes but continue on the 12 days 200 utro? (And is it often normal for this to happen). Would so appreciate yr advise x
-
I've pretty much never had a bleed come while actually taking the utro (vaginally) so I don't know what other women do. I know when taken orally the advice is usually to take the whole course but sometimes women are advised to reset their cycle if it's a proper bleed/period. Used vaginally I would suggest if flow is heavy then the progesterone may not be so well absrobed and I don't know if there any studies looking into absorption when bleeding - well I haven't come across any ( although not looked!).
Cross that bridge when you come to it eh and go with the flow ;D !
Hurdity x
-
Hi again hurdity.....you see I was sort of waiting for my proper bleed to try and tie in and start sequi with bleed so that it synced...but thibk the utro is definitely bringing a bleed on.....unless a pure coincedence and my period is here?! Im.definitely gonna bleed.....pains now and show already. Feel like been thrown now!! I had a lot of breakthrough bleeds when i started hrt and took the utro alternate eves.
Im hoping one of the other women who are on a sequi and vag may know or advise what i do. Was hoping this wouldnt happen and id just be bleed free until after the 12 days at least! Coukd it be my period? Surely utrogestan takes a few days at least to.cause a bleed and not just after taking only 1 eve?
Any more advise from.you lovely lot be so appreciated. There goes my hopefully plain sailing for now!! Knew before when the niggly tum pains started that something was brewing ! Crissakes!!X
****Update**** (sorry!)
Now bleeding. Usual achy period hips.....yesterdays 3 day headache gone. Think its my natural period! (Or is it just the prog and headaches gone as I perhaps needed progesterone?!)
Shall i continue with the utro tonight and thereon for the rest of the 12 days OR no and stop and count today as day 1 of new sequi.and re add it again in 15 days?!?! Thinking now it explains me feeling poo last week and headachy and yesterday emotional.....
...pmt!!! Need advise please and sorry for dramatics !
Ladybt, dotty, stellajane and friends...need help ? (Hurdity I know youve replied xx)
-
I think you need to continue with the Utrogestan for the 12 days. Hopefully over the next few months your cycle should settle x
-
Actually , having thought about it, you might be better counting today as day 1 and start the Utrogestan on day 15 x
-
Hi loveky dotty..ohh this has thrown me..just when i took the bull by the horns! Ok...so.you think.i count today as day 1.and on 15th just re-add the utro for 12 days ? (This then means ill be another 2 weeks estrogel only - well apart from the 1st lot of .200mg utro i took last night)
My mind is spinning about what to do and its nearly bedtime! (utro time!). Im thinking its definitely my period..then im.worrying its not and its just a reaction of the progestetone and the the fact id not had any for 3 weeks prior to last night..or its just reacting and beginning to clear any womb lining thays built up from being on estro alone.!!
What do i do?
-
I'd be interested to know if anyone has the answer and an explanation why. From my school biology progesterone is involved in building up the lining for the embryo to implant and when it stops being produced the lining sheds. So it follows that continuing with prog will at best do nothing and at worst prevent proper shedding. So I stop utro when my bleed starts even if I haven't reached 12 days. This also keeps my cycle in step with the hrt cycle. Is this theory right or wrong?
-
Hi sheila thanks for coming on..ohh i honestly dont know!! Felt ok today as fresh start and trying and a sequi and as u know last night was my first 200mg. This afternoon tum niggles and a bleed.
So is it my period which wouldve been due (or is a lil late as been a bit over place since startong hrt but my dates are saying last week..around nowish)
Or..is it a reaction to the utro/prog?!?
Im.due to push up another 2 utro soon ( or wouldve earlier) and as day 2 of my 12 days but been hoping someone would know or advise!! I dont know what im supposed to do...stop or carry on?!?! Been researching all eve but so much saying stop and re start todays bleed as day 1 of cycle and hope to sync with natural rhythms...or as close to..and some saying carry on! Dotty said carry on but then thinks to stop and count today as day 1 of new sequi. So tired and confused and dont know what to do!
-
It wont be the utrogestan which has caused the bleed, it doesn't work that quick, with just one tablet! It will be you natural period. If you are having a proper bleed on your own, I would agree with Dotty. Stop and count this day 1 and start again on day 15 with 200mg. You could of course continue with utro orally but trying to use it vaginally I think would defeat the object because it is unlikely to be absorbed if you are bleeding properly.
Like Hurdity I have never had a bleed during my utro days so I cannot advise properly but it seems sensible to say that if your body is shedding the womb lining on its own, it won't need any help until the next cycle - well it makes sense to me...anyone??x
-
Hi ladybt ! I muat jave jsut missed yr post. I stayed awake hoping for a reply and did some reading and then just after midnight.decided id just insert 2.and least know was helping protect womb IF wasnt period. Woke and heavy bleed still.so IS definiteky my period - sort of glad as need the release but just gutted it didnt come sooner and i i hoped and i had started the utro! Ok so lets say the bleed will wash away the utro so to speak so its inneffective/doesnt count. I will forget i took and took start counting down from.yesterday from.when bleed started and re add on day 15! Sound ok? Hopwf the ones i took last night dont apply and didnt do owt.
Feel.drained. headache. Period i know but yesterday got thrown again when bleed came and just when i thought id taken bull by horns and started the utro!
As i said sort of glad im on my period...knew was.coming, although later than i hoped...so.gives.me a little reassitance that i still know how my body feels and.works and havent totallly lost connection with it (almost!!)
So...day 1 was yesterday regardless of having pushed 200mg up again last night yeah?
Thank you so much - youve all been a godsend. Rest day for me today. X
-
Jmargaret..... count yesterday as day 1 and start the Utrogestan on day 15 which will be 25th Sept. use Utrogestan for 12 days.
Then start the Utrogestan on 25th of every month. I know that's longer than 28 days but it's the advice given by a lot of doctors and specialists as it's easier to remember the date .
You might get erratic bleeding to begin with but just continue with the same cycle and your bleeding should settle down .
Have you tried the Utrogestan orally? I take it orally and have no problems. X
-
I'd be interested to know if anyone has the answer and an explanation why. From my school biology progesterone is involved in building up the lining for the embryo to implant and when it stops being produced the lining sheds. So it follows that continuing with prog will at best do nothing and at worst prevent proper shedding. So I stop utro when my bleed starts even if I haven't reached 12 days. This also keeps my cycle in step with the hrt cycle. Is this theory right or wrong?
Hi sheila - I'll do another thread about this as my post and explanation about this is long so don't want to clog up this thread!
Hurdity x
-
Jmargaret - great advice from Dotty. Just to add also if you have irregular ovulation then your own body's tendency to bleed may come at different times but as you get further towards menopause as Dotty says - the bleeding should settle and hopefully become more or less predicatable.
Fingers crossed!
Hurdity x
-
Hi all and thanks again! Will do this Dotty - 25th start Utro again and do as you said thereon. Tried utro orally a few days at beginning bit felt sick - im a bit sensitive to tabs.
Just been telling my husband what im doing now (patient and supportive as he is I do think he does a secret eye roll each time! Dont blame him.!!) and he asked if i just have until 25th on nothing - I explained no I still apply my gel daily etc (3 pumps). Then i asked him to be honest and had he noticed ANY improvments of positives since i started hrt. He answered "not really Marg". Uh. Part of me was thinking take the opportunity whilst im on period to even stop the gel. Clean slate. No hrt. But then the other part feels i need to hold on even if just to try this sequi way and also there just may be the missing link i need/my body needa amongst this litttle minefield.Ive a feeling i need testosterone but kbiw thats a near future thing and focus is on estro/prog for now! I'll know on gel only again after this period if any real benefits from the gel anyway wont i (didnt really for the last 3 weeks gel alone but think worrying and then pmt added to the mix.and possibly flattened any good stuff!)
Having a rest today. Feel mentally drained and left eye headache thingy.but sort of glad im on a period...feels a release.
Hope you are all ok? X
-
Jmargaret.... whatever you decide to do you've got to stick to it and be consistent with it for at least 3 months.
My advice would be .... don't stop the gel. If you do that then you will be starting again and you won't have a clue where you are.
But, on the other hand, you could stop everything for a few months and make a note of all your symptoms and feelings. Then start again and see what changes you notice.
The choice is yours but whatever you do you've got to stick to it.
I kept a diary when I was really ill with all this. It helped me to see small changes and I knew when I was improving because I stopped writing in it. The lovely ladies on here helped me so much when I was desperate and with their help I slowly improved.
Try to stop worrying and over thinking and just go with it. X
-
"Then i asked him to be honest and had he noticed ANY improvments of positives since i started hrt. He answered "not really Marg". Uh. Part of me was thinking take the opportunity whilst im on period to even stop the gel. Clean slate. No hrt."
It's what YOU feel that is important - not what your husband notices! After all you might be good at hiding how you feel just to get by each day!
Hurdity x
-
Thanks again ladies. So appreciate it. See how I go.
Hurdity - my husband - I wasnt asking for approval or validation etc - all I meant was I wondered if perhaps anyone close to me had noticed things maybe I hadnt (as been, or feel as though anyway, in a mindfield with it all so havent seen woods for trees!) I base everything on how I feel and never how anybody else does or thinks and will continue to do so! But appreciate what you meant.xx
-
Little update ladies - few days into heavy period. Still on my 3 pumps gel. Still waking most mornings with left side eye pain type headache. Realised today ive wolen or had this eye pain near constant ....ever more since starting hrt. Will see if eases when period does. Felt poo today...just tired and then fed up of this dull pain behind eye. Went for a lovely woodland walk today but halfway through felt lightheaded clammy and dizzy
Not sure why. Didnt like it...scared me a little and a wtf happebing. Why.
Wondered if low blood sugar or just my period or just too much estro and not enough prog at the moment. Hmm.
Had paracetmol most days for the eye pain...Sometimes eases most times doesnt. Not sure estrogen alone suiting me as been on a good 3 pumps now for nearly 4 weeks (and just estrogel) and not really got anything positive to report - no energy bursts.and no real.feel.good factors.to be honest (as you probably know hahaha!!) Will be interesting to see if adding the progesterone on 25th helps any.
Anyways just thought id check in. I hope you are all okay . Lotsa love.x
-
When I get eye pain it's because my eyes have changed so my prescription is wrong. Might be worth a visit to the opticians specially as I think you said it started before hrt?
-
Hi sheila no my eyes are all good and only recently tested. Its a headache but presents itself around and behind the eye.. i suffered them.many yrs ago and would get the odd one but not much but definitely more so since hrt...daily. i looked at my diary last night and every day or nearly every day since started hrt ive had. Through the night and this morn its spread across forehead too. I put another post up before asking if poss too much estrogen? So tired of not feeling myself sheila. X