Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: Kathleen on July 27, 2019, 08:08:39 PM
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Hello ladies
My jitters are very bed this evening so I am planning an early night to see if that helps. This idea made me wonder if those of you who have experienced anxiety and internal shaking etc have noticed that it gets worse when you are very tired. The recent hot nights have probably made us all more sleep deprived so it seems like a good time to notice if there is a connection.
My plan is to go to bed at about 10pm tonight ( Killing Eve is on record lol). If any of you lovely ladies have some comments I would love to read them but I might not see them until tomorrow!
Wishing you all well.
K.
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Hello ladies, with your anxiety in mind, I'm wondering if you take hrt or ad's at all.
If you do, did you have the same anxiety before taking it?
In your diet, do you have much sugar, caffeine and alcohol. If so, how much?
I'm just curious to try and figure this out! It's obviously a lot to do with unbalanced hormones, but diet plays a big part in keeping things balanced.
X
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Hi CLKD, sorry you had this at such a very early age.
Was your anxiety trauma related?
Is this still the case?
Did your menopausal symptoms make your anxiety worse?
Did or do you have hot flushes/sweats?
X
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Hello again ladies
Thank you all for your responses.
Countrygirl - I often wake once or twice at night but my sleep has been much more disturbed during the hot nights. Chronic sleep deprivation is never a good thing and I remember struggling with it when my children were young. I think part of the problem is that we become over tired and then can't relax.
Jari - My diet is whole food plant based and I don't drink tea, coffee or alcohol or eat refined sugar. How dull am I lol! I drink lots of water and have been including two tablespoons of flaxseed a day for some time. I agree that diet must impact our hormones ( why not, it obviously impacts everything else) but I'm not sure what else to try. All very frustrating.
Thanks again ladies and wishing you all well.
K.
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Hi Kathleen, your diet sounds very good. Do you grind the flaxseeds?
Do you take good supplements to support your diet?
How much exercise are you doing each week and what type ?
X
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Hello Jari
I always grind the flaxseeds and keep them in the fridge. I aso take a supplement designed for vegans and an Omega 3 capsule made from algae. I also walk for at least an hour every day. I'm beginning to think all that's left is make sure I get a good night's sleep! Unfortunately that one is proving more difficult to arrange!
Wishing you well.
K.
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Hi Kathleen
I grind flaxseeds too and I take Bio care vegan omega 3.
I'm going to start a better vit c and probiotic too.
I'm wondering if you might be low on B12 for tiredness? X
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Hello Jari
Thank you so much for your interest. My vegan supplement includes vitamin B12 so I should be okay on that score.
It's always good to keep learning and doing our best to be healthy so I value your comments. Onwards and upwards and we'll get their in the end!
Wishing you well.
K.
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Hello Kathleen,
I suffered with anxiety too, once or twice and I know how horrible it is. I also have family members suffering, so I'm interested to try to pin it down.
I was reading an interesting article relating our ph levels to all kinds of symptoms, inc stress, tiredness and insomnia and also learnt that by eating animals and the produce from their milk and their milk is the highest acid for our bodies. Eg Parmesan is the highest. I was vegetarian, but am now eating a much more vegan diet.
I'll try and post one of the articles I was reading...
All the best.. x
https://www.bustle.com/p/6-signs-there-might-be-something-wrong-with-your-bodys-ph-levels-26278
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This is another interesting article which explains about the foods to avoid if wanting to reduce an acidic ph.
https://yurielkaim.com/acidic-foods-to-avoid/
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Thanks Birdy, that's good to know! X
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Past life anxiety sufferer here. Big style, as I had PTSD. It was so bad at one point that if I had half a can of Diet Coke, I could feel my heart pounding and I'd get the shakes. Plus insomnia, 4 hours of sleep a night for 7 years.
Anyway, those days are long gone thankfully. Although I'm suffering with anxiety quite badly at the moment and I've been on the insomnia train for about 6 months now (back down to 4 hours sleep a night).
One thing I found that really helped before was mediation. Just guided ones on YouTube.
At the moment I'm trying another tack: a lot of exercise (cardio mainly).
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Hello again ladies.
Jari - many thanks for the link and I'll read the articles when I'm less tired so that I can take it all in.
Birdy - I've also read about the benefits of apple cider vinegar and lemon juice.
Focus - Although I wake often during the night I can get back to sleep and I'm still chronically tired so you have my sympathy! Do you know if you are especially sensitive to caffeine and that is why Diet Coke gave you the shakes? Like you I am always thinking of other things I could do to help myself. I'm trying some early nights atm as that always helped when the children were younger but of course I was younger too and not suffering from erratic hormone levels. Cardio exercise sounds good though as does meditation ( rather than mediation lol!).
Thanks again ladies for your interesting comments, definitely food for thought.
Take care.
K.
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Hello,
Yes my anxiety definitely rises when I am tired and also when I'm hungry xXx
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Spangles - anxiety can be a symptom of low blood sugar, so makes sense you feel jittery when hungry. I used to feel terribly hungry during intense night sweats & all that came with them in the peri years - couldn't understand how I could suddenly wake feeling hungry & inexplicably terrified at the same time!
Blood sugar regulation tends to go awry at menopause, so maybe read up on hypoglycaemia if you haven't already? I had to learn how to get it under control, which involved changing my diet to include more protein, which slows digestion & spreads the glycaemic load, preventing sugar spikes & crashes. Can make a difference to how bumpy a ride you have & gives you a welcome sense of control amidst the chaotic & unnerving menopause years.
Wx
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Thank you Wrensong, that makes sense to me as I always wake hungry! Thing is I always have breakfast but never rush up to get it xXx
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In a nutshell & off top of my head, the idea is to prevent the pancreas overproducing insulin in response to a flood of sugar, which can result in too low a level of blood sugar a while later & all the horrible symptoms that come with it: faintness, drowsiness, anxiety, dizziness, nausea, sweating, flushing, palpitations, shaking, inexplicable irritability . . . So . . .
Complex carbs with a good portion of protein at every main meal.
No white carbs, no sugar (sorry).
Fresh fruit is OK but not too much in one go & be careful with high sugar fruits such as mango.
Dried fruit if you must but only in small portions & with nuts or another source of protein.
Have any fruit salads with a main meal & high protein natural yoghurt (such as Greek).
Plenty of veg - fibre slows down digestion & gives meals more staying power.
Eat spuds with skins & avoid massive baked spuds or big portions of pasta/rice! Again, always have with protein.
Sweet potatoes better than white & can help cravings for less healthy sweet foods if you miss them.
Moderate sized meals rather than big/small.
Try not to go more than 4 hours without food.
Healthy snacks between meals if you need them - eg oatcakes with a little (cottage) cheese, natural yoghurt with nuts, no added sugar muesli etc.
Check labels to be sure carb content is not too high - e.g. muesli that contains dried fruit can be surprisingly high in sugars.
No undiluted fruit juice & if you must have juice, have it with a main meal.
Alcohol upsets blood sugar (sorry - don't shoot the messenger!)
Be wary of caffeine too.
Never exercise on empty. Have a healthy snack an hour beforehand.
A little supper, such as a small bowl of muesli or couple of oatcakes with natural yoghurt before bed can help get you through the night.
End of sermon!! Just kidding - all things that helped me - may not suit others, but maybe something useful to take from it.
Wx
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Thank you so much!
I don't drink or have caffeine and some of the things you mention make me gag, (sorry). I will look at my diet a little more though as I'm not the best ‘eater', never have been tbh. I just have very little interest in food and often find it difficult to eat a balanced diet. It's definitely a problem for me to maintain a healthy eating plan but I must do better xXx
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Ooh Spangles - sorry to make you think of foods you find unpalatable :o. It is sometimes worth having a rethink about nutrition at menopause (as well as exercise & ways of relaxing) as I think anything we can do to help us feel better during what can amount to a marathon of endurance, just gives a feeling of a bit more control & that can help confidence about getting through & out the other side. :)
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Hello again ladies
As you know I am also thinking a lot about my diet though it's more like obsessing actually lol. I completely agree that natural foods are best and that fibre is our friend. Anyone interested in the subject may want to look up Dr John McDougall, Dr Michael Greger and Dr Neal Barnard. There are other medical doctors who have also studied the role that nutrition plays in our health. Annoyingly I haven't found any studies specific to treating the menopause although I know Marilyn Glenville recommends flaxseed as part of her regime.
I am likely to be missing something so I'll keep searching. Hopefully we can help ourselves by making good food choices as I can't believe mother nature intended us to feel so rotten for so long!
Wishing everyone well.
K.
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Thank you Kathleen. Have noted the names & will have a look. Still find nutrition fascinating & like you, never give up hope of improving health by learning more about it.
Wx
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Hi ladies,
Talking of foods, what do you have for breakfast? I've been having a cup of muesli and oats mixed and 2 dessert spoons of ground flaxseeds. With 6-8 stewed prunes with juice and almond milk on top.
An apple or two mid morning.
Lunch I try to have home made hummus with 2 carrots and red peppers
Dinner green lentils with garlic, onions and spices and a couple of small handfuls if wholemeal pasta.
Is this too much to eat in a day do you think? I'm finding it about right as long as I'm also exercising. I could probably do with adding more fruit n veg.
What are you eating typically in a day? X
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Hello again ladies.
On a typical day I eat a bowl of oats for breakfast with chopped pitted dates two tablespoons of ground flaxseed and soya milk. Lunch is a large salad which includes dark green leafy vegetables,. starchy vegetables such as rice or pasta and some beans. I then add anything else to hand. My evening meal is something I've cooked from one of my vegan cookery books. Snacks are fruit and nuts plus anything I've made such as flapjacks. I have always eaten something just before I go to bed and these days it's another bowl of oats and dates. I often have some dark chocolate as well and eating late has never given me indigestion.
I have completely gone off tea and never liked coffee so I drink water throughout the day.
Some days I eat more than others but I never calorie count and my weight remains stable. My BMI , cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar are all at the low end of normal.
I think my diet is pretty typical for anyone eating whole food plant based but I realise it may seem odd to some people.
As I've said before I made these changes because I wanted to eat anti inflammatory foods to get my Ulcerative Colitis into remission and avoid other inflammatory diseases that UC sufferers often experience.
I hope this helps ladies.
Wishing you all well.
K.
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My daughter (nearly 23) is a natural born vegan. Only had one bite of pheasant her whole life. I believe a slice of chicken made it on to her plate once, then she changed her mind. Slightly odd considering we're meat eaters, but hey ho, it was very clear from when she was tiny that this wasn't her way. She eats a lot of protein though. What I've noticed with her is that when she's tired she's really tired, and when she's lively she's really lively. If she gets over-tired she can't sleep and then becomes jittery - shaking on the inside. The only thing that helps her then is proper proper rest, long baths, foot massages, Deliveroo (lol). It's like she gets depleted and, because she doesn't rely on coffee or tea or sugar or alcohol, there's no quick fix. I think she's learned to take it in her stride now. She knows that once every two or three months she'll have to take a week - 10 days completely out and gather her strength. Part of me wonders whether it's because she feels so wonderfully healthy the rest of the time that this low phase knocks her for six.
Feel better soon. x
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Hello again ladies.
Yet another post I've only just caught up with lol!
Elk Warning - your post about your daughter is very interesting and obviously her issues are not menopausal though they may be hormonal? I am also vegan though the term I use is 'whole food plant based' meaning I don't eat anything processed. Similarly to your daughter, when I feel good I feel really good but when I'm tired I can't relax and become jittery. I assume a lot of this is due to meno and my disturbed sleep but I suppose diet may be playing a part. Everyone I know drinks tea or coffee or eats lots of chocolate as a pick me up.
Your point that your daughter really notices her fatigue because she feels so energised the rest of the time is very interesting. I've read many accounts from vegans saying they had more energy when they gave up eating animal products. Also a plant based diet is anti inflammatory and high in fibre, both of which are beneficial to our health ( though of course a B12 supplement needs to be included).
I became vegan to treat an inflammatory disease and now I've stopped HRT so I'm hoping it will balance my hormones. There's a theory based on population studies that suggests lifelong vegan women have an easy menopause so your daughter may escape all the troubles that we are encountering. Now wouldn't that be nice!
Wishing you well.
K.
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Hi Kathleen. How interesting that you are vegan. I've been vegetarian for many years, but have been moving more towards vegan for the last couple.
I'm really enjoying it actually and trying different recipes. I'd like to make sauerkraut as I love it and usually buy in jars. Next thing to try to do.
Also loving making health bars inc oats, dates, nuts and cocoa nibs and they're lovely with morning coffee. :)
My energy levels are always quite good. X
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I think that the daughter and Kathleen may be suffering from low blood sugar. What proteins are ingested? Protein is important overall so maybe have a think whether hormones are involved, i.e. in the daughter's case, pre-menstrual? Which may burn off energy which isn't being replaced.
Being able to take 10 days out would have been lovely when I was having period problems: clots++, pain which almost caused me to jump off a bridge, tiredness: but I wouldn't have kept my job! Maybe ElkWarning she needs to eat more protein 5 days prior to when she would expect to need time out? Does she keep a diary?
Dr Kath Dalton suggested eating every 3 hours to keep sugar levels even. In the mid-1990s that regime saved my Life .......... I still try to stick to it all these years later. Even in the night - puppy soon learned that there was a biscuit to be had after she went out to pee in the early hours ;D
My go to:
dried fruits and nuts
bananas
Ready brek anyone 8) - made with lots of milk rather than thick and stodgy
Hot custard with full fat milk - again runny
Pancakes - these can be mixed and kept in the fridge for a few days ready to eat ASAP
chicken cooked in rice with veg. - so substitute the meat for a good protein base
When not well I stick to fried chicken with rice for weeks :-\. When well I can branch out a bit ::)
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Odd that a roast doesn't 'go through you' Teresa - greasy foods can loosen my bowels ::). Nuts can be greasy particular Brazils which I love and are a good source of selenium? Apparently. What's in your sandwich usually? >passes a dish for the crumble with custard< thanks :D [unless it's rhubarb :beaurk:]
Jari - I don't think that you are eating enough :-\
We had access to fresh foods whilst growing up, everyone had gardens and grew crops. Dig 4 Victory still very much in the forefront of their minds. Meat and two/3 veg.. Eggs which I can't tolerate these days unless in :cake: - does that count ;D. Boiled; scrambled; poached; fried ........ DH makes a fried egg sandwich very often :sick02:.
Rich tea biscuits are good when travelling as are those small boxes of flakes ..... which can be eaten without milk. Ginger biscuits are good too. DH adds a lot of ginger and garlic to our main meals .......... curries are good for the gut and there are loads of vegetarian recipes as in many areas of India meat goes off so people are vegetarian as a necessity.
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Beware Girls I had a thought ;D
Regardless of what you like to eat now: think about how we are designed initially. Teeth are for meat eating. Gut takes time to digest different food stuffs but can't remember where Michael Moseley's book is to let you know more ::). We are decorating so everything is in a pile. Somewhere.
Think about what we would eat in our cave days: raw meat, bones, fat and marrow; plus fruits from the hedgerows - when foods were available. Don't know what we drank then probably water from rivers. Eventually someone decided to cook meat and on we went. Always a mix dependant on what was available and always seasonal. Until someone developed salting and curing ............ and people became settled so cattle, sheep, oxen were herded for meat, skins, milk. Bones used for sewing skins for clothing. Wool for clothing and rugs/blankets.
What we eat is so individual. There are foods I couldn't face: corned beef and tripe spring to mind :-X. I go off foods quite quickly, i.e. cheese for lunch for weeks then YUK! Veg I love. Roasted, steamed, raw .......... personally I can cut out eggs and fish but not chicken or meat. A small handful of nuts daily as a filler. Trying to cut out bought cakes and pastries ::)
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I'm definitely eating enough CLKD. Need to cut down portion sizes really.
Today I had: no sugar muesli with ground flaxseeds and a few big dollops of stewed prunes and juice with some almond milk and two kiwis.
Through day 3 big apples and a couple handfuls of Brazil nuts.
Filter coffee, black with brown sugar at breakfast.
Two glasses of water ( no-where near enough) am bad at drinking water.
Dinner, stir fried veg, red pepper, half onion, garlic, half courgette, 3 big leaves of chopped cabbage, one big cup of cooked rice and one big cup of cooked lentils.
2 glasses of dry white wine.
Oh and a handful of dates.
Love ginger and garlic in foods. Must buy some ginger. Thanks for reminding me. X
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Hello again ladies.
There seems to be a growing interest in how our diet impacts our health which is a good thing.
Jari - making your own Sauerkraut is cheap and super easy. I have a book explaining the process but there are plenty of tutorials online. If you are buying it ready made it needs to be from the chiller cabinet so the bacteria are preserved.
Teresa - high fibre foods may be upsetting you because you don't yet have the right bacteria to digest them. You may want to try eating very small amounts and increase gradually. After four days of eating a tablespoon of homemade Sauerkraut daily the results were pretty dramatic! I did some research and tried again with tiny amounts initially and gradually adding more. I didn't have any problems and now I can eat large amounts without any unfortunate episodes lol.
Modern science supports the view that we are herbivores by nature. Anyone interested in educating themselves on the subject may want to do some research online. It's fascinating stuff.
Take care everyone.
K.
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A couple of glasses of wine Jari :o?! That's a surprise, given you've repeatedly posted elsewhere about your desire to do what you can to avoid a raised risk of breast cancer, citing the slight increase thought to be associated with some types & durations of HRT use, but which we're told is lower than that from regularly drinking alcohol.
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/pdf/Understanding%20Risk%20of%20Breast%20Cancer.pdf
Or perhaps your couple of glasses were an unusual occurrence, maybe for a celebration?
I've found this a dilemma myself - I used to enjoy wine & have been heartened by studies suggesting it may reduce cardiovascular risk, but have reluctantly chosen to go teetotal, partly as alcohol makes my vasomotor symptoms & consequently sleep worse, but partly because it's something I feel I can do to reduce BC risk. I can get by without alcohol & in fact feel physically better without it, but I struggle to live an adequately full, enjoyable & productive life without HRT.
Please don't think I'm criticising anyone's choice to drink alcohol - I love wine & miss it, so completely understand its appeal, I'm just interested in how our perception of risk differs & the thought processes behind associated decisions. Sorry - not that relevant to this thread, but wanted to seize the chance to ask about a point of interest in Jari's post. :)
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Hi Wrensong. Thanks for that. It's a very interesting chart and I've taken a copy of it!
Good to raise that issue regarding raised BC risk if one drinks more two units of alcohol per day and if over 50.
I don't drink alcohol every day and I'm not over 50, yet... though fast approaching. ;)
I don't think a couple of glasses of wine on a Friday night is too much, but each to their own.
If I have a friend for dinner/catch up or if we go out for dinner/ drinks over the weekend, I would usually have a couple of glasses of wine. Often with sparkling water, but you're right to point out, that wouldn't be a good idea every day. :)
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Hi Jari, thanks for explaining.
I don't think a couple of glasses of wine on a Friday night is too much, but each to their own.
I think you're probably right, but my needing HRT means avoiding alcohol gives me a sense there's something I can to do offset the extra risk that may involve. I could probably loosen up a bit & every time OH asks me whether I want a glass of wine I'm tempted, but don't want a reminder of what I'm missing! ;D
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I will take a sip if DH opens something special. But I would never wander in2 the alcohol aisle.
We are omnivores. Speak to your Dentist if you are unsure - teeth are designed to chew ........
I don't fancy saukeraut [sp] :-\ although I love cabbage. Raw or lightly stir fried in soy-sauce.
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Kathleen, I will definitely make some sauerkraut. I love it and have read about its great health benefits. I'm really enjoying a more and more vegan diet now. I made a really nice and very simple pasta sauce recently. Soaked cashew nuts overnight, or just in hot water for an hour before use. Onion, tin of tomatoes, tomato puree all cooked down and then blended in the liquidiser along with the cashews which thicken it and give it a creamy consistency. Also added salt, pepper and a few spices that I like.. delicious with whole meal pasta and brocoli.
Wrensong, go for it. I don't think there's any harm in having the odd glass of wine. Guidelines are 14 units per week which equates to 7 small glasses of wine per week. I can't remember if you take estrogen only, because that gives you a reduced risk, as does only 2 1/2 hours exercise per week. The exercise has the biggest reduction in risk, which is good to know. I manage to do about that. :)
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Hello again ladies.
I used to be a drinker in my younger day as it was impossible to socialise without alcohol at that time, or maybe all my friends were boozers lol! I now rarely drink and it doesn't appeal to me at all.
Funny about perceptions . I have a friend who insists that her red wine is good for the heart because it's made from dark grapes. However the scientists will tell you that eating the grapes is healthy but extracting the nutrients and fibre and knocking back the alcohol is not. Infact a cardiologist is on record for saying that all alcohol is injurious to the heart. My friend doesn't want to think about any of that and just wants to relax with her wine in the evening and who can blame her? I guess it all comes down to ‘ each to their own' and of course everyone's concerns and priorities are different.
CKLD - I'm sure you said earlier that teeth are for meat eating but now you say teeth are designed to chew. I'm easily confused these days, perhaps you were just referring to individual teeth lol. Again there's info on the science sites about our dentition and how it compares to other animals along with lots of other evolutionary stuff. Worth a look if you are interested and can spare the time.
Jari - Your meal sounds delicious. Since cooking plant based I've learned a lot and I don't feel that I'm missing out on taste or texture. My favourite chefs are The Happy Pear. I have their recipe books and their YouTube channel is very helpful.
Take care ladies.
K.
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I'm sure you're right Jari, but I need a couple of glasses at a time to get the feel-good response & enjoy that so much it'd be too good a reminder of what I've been missing! Then I'd want a couple of glasses several nights a week . . . Self control not my forte! But thanks for the empathy.
No, unfortunately not on oestrogen-only HRT as couldn't persuade them to take my uterus when they did the BSO. But trialling very low dose MPA on a cycle at present under care of a brilliant & lovely Endo.
Thanks for the encouragement to exercise. Like you, I do - but poor stamina without HRT, tricky to manage hypothyroidism & chronic insomnia have been frustrating limiting factors! I walk at least half an hour every day, weather permitting, have an exercise bike & rowing m/c at home & am building up stamina on those again after several episodes of major surgery last year. Also lift light weights, alternating daily with resistance band exercises, physio devised. Eager to get as fit as poss, prevent osteopenia progressing to osteoporosis & build some muscle without losing weight. :)
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Kathleen - I can't keep up with the various studies. One day a little red wine is good for us, the next ALL alcohol is a bad thing it seems! They keep moving the goal posts. Your red wine drinking friend might have a point though - the relaxation she gets from it might be good for her cardiovascular health. Yes, interesting that the resveratrol in red/black grapes is thought to be beneficial. I have a few red grapes every day along with a wide variety of other fruit & veg. Love it all.
Wx