Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Other Health Discussion => Topic started by: Kathleen on July 26, 2019, 09:44:00 AM
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Hello ladies
My eyes were a little itchy and dry lately but that seems to have resolved now and as the weather has been so hot I have also increased my water consumption. Do you ladies think the extra water helped or was it a coincidence?
I know some of you suffer with dry eyes and one of my science sites actually says this condition can be cured by drinking more water but maybe that doesn't apply if the cause is oestrogen deficiency?
It would be great to know if anyone has cured their dry eyes just by drinking more water.
Take care ladies.
K.
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Hi Kathleen, could also be hay fever? Although I've also had it before on HRT and over the winter, def hay fever related for me now though, got prescribed drops four times a day for it. x
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I use an eye spray as I am useless with drops. My optician assured me it's just as good and was originally developed for people with parkinsons. Shaky hands and drops don't mix.
The spray definitely works for me, and if my eyes get sore when out I have some in my handbag.
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Hi Kathleen, the water will have helped your dry eyes for sure. One of the things recommended at my recent ophthalmology appointments was to ensure good water intake for dry eyes. But maybe also have a look at the thread Jaypo started recently, called Re: Flashing Lights - I posted some stuff on there about the condition (including a link to an Ophthalmology article on DES) as surprisingly, it seems it's thought that androgen deficiency is more relevant than oestrogen where dry eyes are concerned.
Wx
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Kathleen - forgot to say, other natural measures I was advised about include taking fish oils & using a heat mask (Eye Doctor - from Boots) for 10 mins a day, to encourage correct function of the meibomian glands in the eyelids, which produce lubricating oils. The fish oil recommendation was to help increase intake of anti-inflammatory omega 3 fats, which I know you'll already be very familiar with through your success in managing UC. I was already eating oily fish once/twice a week, but Ophthalmologist said this is not enough & I must take at least 500mg fish oils daily & preferably 2g. Dry eye syndrome can be inflammatory in nature & secondary to other autoimmune conditions, so the idea is to reduce systemic inflammation. For same reason, I was advised to reduce my consumption of a variety of tree nuts, which I'd been eating daily for their fibre & cardioprotective fats. As walnuts & almonds are especially promoted as beneficial for heart health I had thought their omega 3:6 ratio was high, so was surprised to find even these 2 nuts are higher in pro-inflammatory omega 6 fats than they are in omega 3. Sorry if I sound like a scratched record - I know I've already posted about the eye mask elsewhere, the autoimmune nature of DES & probably the fish oils, but thought it worth repeating in case anyone new reads this thread!
Wx
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What spray do you use Shadyglade and is it OTC? I've always used the gel drops but they dont seem to be working as well now and make my eyes run.
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That's very interesting Wrensong.
I don't have dry eyes but I do have an inflammatory eye condition which they say is linked to the fistula . I want to try an anti inflammatory diet, do you have any suggestions - you seem to be very knowledgable on this, is it the same basis as the anti arthritis diet ?xx
( sorry for digressing from the original thread ) xx
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Hello again ladies
Thank you all for taking the time to comment.
Foxylady and Shadyglade - I hadn't considered hay fever but it's possible because my mother suffered with this from her mid forties and her eyes itched and her nose ran. I don't recall her taking anything for it to be honest but I assume there were treatments available.
Wrensong - You make some very interesting points. My diet is whole food, plant based which of course is anti inflammatory however I hadn't realised that walnuts and almonds have more omega 6 than 3 and I eat these nuts every day. Obviously I don't eat fish but I understand that two tablespoons of ground flaxseed every day delivers the same amount of omega 3 as two to three servings of fish per week. I hope that my omega 3 consumption from flaxseeds and other foods compensates for the lack of fish and the omega 6 in walnuts and almonds.
Groundhog - I'm not sure where Wrensong has learned about antI inflammatory diets but I just did my research online. Basically all plant foods are anti inflammatory and all animal foods are pro inflammatory. To follow a strict anti inflammatory diet you would need to avoid meat, eggs and diary. I've been doing this for years now and it's surprisingly easy and tasty. Certainly since giving up dairy ( I never did eat much meat) my UC has been in remission. If you want to know more I suggest you Google Dr Michael Greger at NutritionFacts. Org.
Thanks again ladies and wishing you all well.
K.
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Hi Groundhog & Kathleen. I first looked into anti-inflammatory foods after being diagnosed with gastritis following gastroscopy many years ago, though my autoimmune thyroid condition predisposes to systemic inflammation as well as the development of additional autoimmune conditions. The first Opthalmologist I saw earlier this year did say in his clinic letter that he thinks my likely Sjogren's is secondary to the Hashimoto's. Had been warned so many times that having Hashi's meant I'd likely develop other autoimmune conditions as time went by, so this has been a long time coming! That said, have had the dry eye syndrome for 25+ years, but only recently has any medic shown much interest in it, probably because I'm told the dryness & inflammation are now severe.
I can't add much to what you've already said Kathleen, except perhaps that low gluten diets seem to be increasingly encouraged for reducing all manner of inflammatory conditions - thyroid included. The excellent Gastroenterology dept I attended for some years advised me to cut out wheat to help me manage my IBS-C, but I've found I need to avoid almost all gluten containing foods for this to really work for me.
Prior to menopause I ate a predominantly veggie diet, but when blood sugar instability became a real problem at that time, I found I needed to ensure I had a good portion of protein at every meal to help spread the gylcaemic load & that I couldn't do it on vegetable protein as this doesn't seem to have the staying power for me. So I had to go back to eating meat & fish more often, much against my preference. A nuisance, as animal based protein seems harder to process & aggravates the IBS-C!
I managed to get the gastritis under control by cutting out caffeine & cocoa, drinking only plain water apart from an early morning herbal tea, taking lactase with meals containing milk, reducing citrus fruits, berries & tomatoes, reducing the number of olive-oil based dishes I was eating (have spent lot of time in Greece & love their baked veggie dishes & salads) & eliminating sugar from my diet. I also learned which foods are high in salicylates. Probiotics & natural yoghurt in abundance seemed to help keep the gastritis in check as well, but I had a hunch that yoghurt was aggravating the inflammatory eye condition. So when Sjogren's was suggested as the likely cause, I researched & found articles suggesting a link with lactobacilli & Sjogren's. So I've reluctantly cut out yoghurt altogether as an experiment & each time I reintroduce it, my eyes do seem to become sorer, more itchy & visibly more inflamed. Possibly because probiotics can stimulate the immune system & there's some thought that that's not always a good thing for people with autoimmune conditions.
There's also a school of thought that foods either naturally high in, or causing the body to produce histamine, encourage inflammation & fermented foods & drinks tend to be pretty high in histamine.
Unfortunately I can't eat flax seeds (which as you say, Kathleen, are a great vegetarian source of omega 3 fats) because in common with other seeds, these are high in arginine which is thought to encourage flares of the cold sore virus, which plagues me. Nuts, beans, pulses, cereal foods & cocoa are also high in arginine, so I found it tricky to manage this, given I wanted to eat nuts, beans, pulses & whole grains as part of a high fibre diet, as well as for the cardio-protective properties of the fats in nuts.
Have you noticed anything that seems to aggravate your inflammatory eye problem Groundhog? It can be really difficult to identify food sensitivities when we all tend to eat such varied diets. I've been interested in nutrition right back to early 20s, initially to help manage the IBS-C which has been a lifelong challenge! With conditions that medicine struggles to help, I think desperation often drives us to do all we can for ourselves.
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Interesting wrensong. It can be very complex diet in relation to many different factors. I had researched & was on a low histamine diet for a while as I was initially given a possible MCAS (mast cell activation syndrome) diagnosis & on high dose antihistamine, supplements & other prescribed meds to trial. This was to address all my varied symptoms which turn out to be menopause related (I suspected this 3 years ago which is why I went to GP). A positive 24 hr urine collection showing high histamine sent me down the wrong path (it was due to storage issues between labs, once repeated was normal). So was under Immunology for a while. I'm glad you have found what works for you but it is frustrating & quite limiting when it is things you enjoy you have to sacrifice for better symptom control. Back to topic I was affected by dry/itchy eyes throughout the year, will be interesting to see how they are outwith hayfever season & being on HRT now.
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Foxylady - I also followed a low histamine diet a few years ago (pre-HRT) to see whether it would help my hay fever, reduce flushing & night sweats. It didn't! Hay fever was at its worst during the peri years & nearly drove me nuts at night when I was already really sleep deprived due to years of night sweats & chronic pain! Combination just about finished me off. I thought HRT had "cured" my hay fever as it was so much better the first year on HRT & non-existent the next, but then last summer when I was off HRT, the hay fever was also barely there. So can't have been the HRT that helped it. We live in a very rural area, about as far from the sea as you can get in the UK & in Spring it's a sea of noxious yellow oil-seed rape - the gas it gives off is terribly aggravating for eyes, nose, mouth & ears, as all you hay fever sufferers will know. I dreaded rape season every year, so have been very relieved my hay fever seems so much better the last 2 years. Fingers crossed for all you ladies who are also sufferers, that your hay fever will ease as you go (further) into postmenopause. :)
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Hello again ladies.
Thank you all for the very interesting comments and personal experiences.
Wrensong - I can see why you took an interest in the effects of diet on our health. Like you I was prompted to begin researching the subject when I was diagnosed with an inflammatory illness. Unfortunately doctors have no training on the subject so we have to educate ourselves. It's a pity that you have to stop eating yogurts but I eat soya yoghurts instead and they taste just as good.
Thanks again everyone and take care.
K.
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Yes my hayfever been worse in peri. I had hay fever induced wheeze/asthma as a child (only over the summer months) grew out of it when about 12yrs between then and around 36yrs nothing & then back with avengance, nights def were worse for me (at one point had alarm set for 2am not that it ever went off I was always awake but to make sure I was taking antihistamines 6hrly), since HRT I've not needed to do that take antihistamine twice daily, beconase nasal spray & sodium cromoglicate eye drops (4 times a day) since mid May. My OH always had far worse hayfever than me but it certainly flipped the other way & I'm not entirley sure what sets it off as days he has it bad I dont & vice versa so both aggrevated by different pollens! I'm hopeful it settles auntumn time. We live on the outskirts of a town, farms around us etc.
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Foxylady, I think that as the body's struggling to cope with the hormonal chaos of menopause, resilience to other conditions is reduced. Especially if we are run down through long term sleep disruption, as most of us are at this time. Oestrogen is also said to have an effect on the immune system, partially accounting for differences in male & female susceptibility to immune dysfunction. Like you, I relied on nasal barrier sprays & antihistamines which were not that effective, but stupidly didn't think to try either for around 15 years after my hay fever started in my 30s when living in the middle of a major city. In fact, because we were living well away from the countryside, I'd never had hay fever in younger years & no-one in my family had, I didn't realise at first that it was in fact hay fever & went down the immunology route to try to find out why mouth & throat in particular were unbearably itchy. Was thought to be food allergy/intolerance & potentially dangerous, so I wasted a lot of money on food allergy testing & private Immunologist fees!
How early in the year does yours start Foxylady? Mine was from Feb through July (but started early in Dec one year!) So tree pollen at first. The worst for me, being silver birch, which is very widely grown hereabouts. A neighbour's birch tree overhangs our back garden to about 8' from our windows & half a dozen more are visible from our garden. So no access to the garden, no windows open etc, until all the catkins have shrivelled. Flip side is, it's a beautiful tree the birds love to perch in to get to our feeders. Also, in leaf, in blocks out neighbour's unsightly shed & gives us good privacy. Every cloud!
Can I ask, Foxylady & Kathleen whether any HRT you're on includes Testosterone? Interested to know whether anyone feels their dry eye probs are helped by it.
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Hi Wrensong, my HRT regime doesn't include testosterone. My symptoms this year started around May time if I recall rightly. I'm also hypothyroid (diagnosed about 16yrs ago) so started off at Endocrinology then Immunology under NHS, referred by GP as didnt think my symptoms were menopause related!!!
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Hello again Wrensong.
I have never taken testosterone. A while ago I used Livial ( Tibolone ) which I believe has androgenic effects but I wasn't troubled by dry eyes at that time.
Hope this helps and take care.
K.
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Hi Kathleen, thank you for the info about your HRT history. When you say you weren't troubled by dry eyes at the time you were on Livial, I take it you mean your dry eye condition hadn't started beforehand, rather than that Livial helped the dry eye?!
Foxylady - sorry to know you had the runaround to get your menopause symptoms treated. Thyroid conditions can rather muddy the clinical picture - certainly did with me, especially during the peri years. Have just had to arrange a TFT today as suspect my new HRT is making me under-treated. Again! Will get there in the end. ;D
Copy of Ophthalmology clinic letter arrived today (nearly 10 weeks after the clinic was held!) asking GP to prescribe the heated eye mask. I had no idea these were available on the NHS, so had bought one the day after my appt!
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Hello Wrensong.
My dry eye condition hadn't started before taking Livial so I have idea if that HRT helped or not. I must say my eyes are fine now, no itching etc even though I am lowering my dose of Oestrogel.
Unfortunately other areas are very dry and once again I am noticing my episiotomy scar that came with my darling daughter nearly thirty years ago!
Swings and roundabouts with dryness and my moods on a rollercoaster, this meno feels like a veritable funfair but without the fun!
Wishing you well.
K.
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Hi Kathleen, glad to hear your eyes are better. A thought I'm still getting my head around - but maybe because of lowering Oestrogel rather than despite, considering studies showing women with dry eye on oestrogen alone (less so on combi regimes) fared worse than non-users. The idea that androgen deficiency is linked with dry eye rather than oestrogen. Will be interesting to hear what the Sjogren's expert has to say about HRT & dry eyes, but 6 month waiting list Cons said & his clinic letter referring me to her only written last week (though I saw him in April), so could be 2020 before I get to see her!
What are you using topically for the dryness down below? I find I need Vagifem 5 nights a week plus Estriol externally, as well as systemic HRT, to manage the VA. The Estriol, though very weak, I find makes a huge difference to comfort.
Are your mood swings cyclical i.e. according to your HRT regime? Sorry - can't remember whether sequi but think so?
Wx
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Hello Wrensong.
I am not on a cycle with my HRT and my regime is two pumps of Oestrogel and 100mcg of Utrogestan vaginally. My consultant offered vagifem but I didn't need it at the time.
I've been a bit naughty and stopped Utrogestan for a while and lowered the gel to about a quarter of a pump. I suppose I'm gearing up to coming off HRT altogether to see how I feel. I noticed the tender breasts disappeared when I stopped the Utrogestan and the very worst of the mood swings faded as well. However declining oestrogen means that my flushes are back and I noticed vaginal dryness creeping in so maybe I should have opted for the vagifem after all! Even so my vagina seems to have calmed down a little. I never had any burning only itching and my bladder function is okay. Noticing the scar has become an issue though and I've been experimenting with sitting in a shallow bath with water laced with Oilatum which is an emollient used to treat dry skin. So far this seems to be helping so I plan to notify the forum if the results are good.
To be honest I'm a devil for experimenting with my menopause treatments but this is because no matter what I have used I've never had full symptom relief. I mention this because I would hate you to draw too many conclusions from my experiences which may then lead you down the wrong path.
At the moment my plan is to take a break from HRT and then take stock of the symptoms that remain. I'm hoping that some early nights will at least help my anxiety so that I can feel less wired and tired during the day but we'll see how it goes. A little normality is of course my aim and I'm sure that is shared by everyone on the forum.
Wishing you well.
K.
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Sounds like a sensible plan, Kathleen. It does get demoralising when whatever the regime, some stubborn symptoms remain. Before having an 18 month break from HRT in 2018-19, I spent 2 years trying to find one that worked better than the Evorel Conti I absorbed poorly, but to my disappointment, given its reputation for probably being the least harmful form of prog, cannot tolerate Utrogestan whatever the route. So now on my 4th form of prog.
Would you consider trying Vagifem &/or Estriol to nip VA in the bud if there's a chance you may be coming off systemic HRT for good?
As I get the impression you favour a natural approach, have you tried meditation for the anxiety? Practised regularly, it can reduce reactivity for a more serene default state.
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Hello again Wrensong
Despite my cynicism I would definitely consider vagifem if things get worse. I haven't tried meditation yet but I am using some deep breathing techniques to see if that can reduce my tendency to anxiety. Time will tell!
Thanks again for your comments and wishing you well.
K.
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Ooh Kathleen - you don't come across as cynical. I love that you've found natural ways of helping your health & have had amazing success from carefully changing your diet. Really shows what can be achieved by learning about nutrition & taking responsibility for health. I've tried to do the same virtually all my adult life but menopause has been a challenge beyond what I could manage!
VA caused me probs for some years before I knew what it was & I've been surprised by how much HRT I've needed to begin to manage it. I'm sure you know that the Estriol cream contains a weaker form of oestrogen than Vagifem (I use the 0.01% formulation, not the stronger Ovestin) & I find this used externally makes a big difference to comfort if you are suffering there. Unfortunately I can't use it internally, so use Vagifem instead.
The breathing exercises practised for long enough can really help settle jitters & a racing heart & restore calm. I found that gave me a sense of control during the worst years. Still have to do the focused breathing technique at times now - especially to bring heart rate down when too hot at night & in stressful situations such as hospital waiting areas! I hope you soon start to feel consistently better. The withdrawal from HRT can be an endurance feat & if you are down to 1/4 pump I'm not surprised you're feeling the effects. Sending positive vibes & a hug.
Wx
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Hello Wrensong
I can certainly relate to your quest for improved health using nutrition and other natural methods. My Ulcerative Colitis hasn't been a problem for over six years and my last colonoscopy about four years ago showed a normal colon. Rather naively I thought that a better diet would also help to balance my hormones but, as you say, the menopause is proving more of a challenge!
After one night of less disturbed sleep and feeling calmer during the day I wondered if most of my anxiety issues were as much related to sleep deprivation as fluctuating hormones. The difficulty is that hormones are still the main culprit as they are the cause of poor sleep. You just can't win can you!
I'm going to continue with the breathing exercises and I'm pleased that they have helped you so much. I think feeling in control is so important at this time in our lives.
Thanks again for your interesting comments and take care.
K.