Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Tc on July 02, 2019, 10:03:41 AM
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Hiya ladies. After another 3 week break from utrogestan(no bleed) I restarted on Thursday at 200mg. My mood became very depressed very quickly and I've had a headache since, morning nausea and my boobs are so painful and lumpy.
I cant seem to even be able to make it to 7 days This is not going to work for me.and I've given it a fair go.
I've just found out my C and W appointment isnt til 17th October so I'm going to have to deal with gp in meantime.
My problem is I dont realy know if I'm progesterone intolerant or just utrogestan intolerant. Im wondering if I should try a different progesterone to see whether it is just the utrogestan Ihat dont get on with before going down the mirena route. (I'm wary of the mirena as if its P intolerance I'm not sure it's a good idea plus, my sister and I both have retroverted uterus and shes had no end of problems with the mirena because of that and had to have it surgically removed so that's put me off a bit)
So an alternative? II've heard all the different names on here like provera. But I dont know what to ask for.
The only other P I've tried was my initial HRT 9 months ago when I used femseven sequi. I didnt seem to have a problem with that but I only took it for 3 months. I also took the contraceptive pill in younger years with no problems.
Any advice/experience greatly appreciated so I can research before my gp appointment on Friday. Thanks.
Xxxx
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https://www.chelwest.nhs.uk/services/womens-health-services/gynaecology-services/menopause-and-pms-clinics/links/ProgestogenandProgesteroneRegimensinHRT130518AGREED.pdf
Hi Tc. I came across this leaflet which says you can use Norethisterone x although it is dated 2016
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And Provera is another alternative x
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Good morning Tc
Sorry to hear about your problems with utrogestan I also couldn't tolerate it.
I now use Provera on a long cycle as I'm in my 60s (don't know how that happened :o ) and find the longer I take it the fewer if any side effects I get.
There is a thread on here about Provera might be worth you having a read.
Good luck
Lanzalover x
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Oh god, I know how you feel.
I lasted 5 days- worst stuff for me. Sent me around the bend.
Norethesterone made me feel very sick
I use Femeston, which has dydrogesteron - top it up with a patch. For me, best thing since sliced bread.
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Thanks for the link dotty.
Thanks lanz. I'm glad you've settled on provera. I've had a look at the thread and link.and done a bit of research this morning.
I think I've narrowed it down.
1. it seems that the closest thing to utrogestan in being more "natural" is in the femeston pill and whilst I would like to try it the doc warned me off it as I'm overweight and smoke.
2. The levenogestrel which I seemed o.k with is only in femseven and mirena so I will discount that at least until I can see the panay clinic in October
This leaves provera or changing patch.
Given that I have to use more than 100 eastrogen patch I cant see how a combined continous patch would work.
I'm still unsure whether it's best to have a cycle anyway. At least for a couple of years as I'm 54. It would seem more akin to what the ovaries do naturally which taking continous high levels of progesterone doesnt to me and therefore might be making depression worse.and giving permenant PMS. Symptoms.
But with sequi patch I still face the same issue of needing higher than 100 dose of E. (I cant use eastrogel). Maybe I could just add more E only patches but not sure if the P in the patch would be enough to cover that as sequi is already pre balanced E to P n the regime.
So in conclusion unless anyone has any tips on how to get around the patch issue, (please let me know if you do) then it looks like provera is my only option at moment.
Wow. I feel like I've done a days work. I've probably got it all wrong as well. And it must make a very boring read so thanks if you've stuck with it.
Xxx
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Hi TC,
If you can recall racjen's posts, she had to change to Provera and has found it much better for her than Utrogestan and she has had all sorts of problems with hrt for quite some time. She has had mega mood problems which wouldn't settle - have a look at some of her past posts but I know I saw one recently that said she seemed to be more under control with provera. I don't think she's fully there yet but a bit better than Utro anyway. She might be along soon to talk to you or just have a look at some of her previous posts over the last few months.
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Hi TC
I note you said you are ‘overweight' and smoke.
Well, a little secret (lol) me too. BMI 29 , smoke 10-15. I am quite ‘conservative' about what I tell health care,
BUT in the full knowledge that I am aware of the risks and prepared to acknowledge any consequences of my actions.
I take Femeston and evorel 75 patch.
I am one of those people who very much feels you have to live now, not feeling like 💩💩day after day and existing rather than living and wondering what MIGHT happen .
But that is just me ........
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Sgtvhilts that's the regime I'm trialling. How much/how often femoston do you take?x
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Thanks ladies. I have had a good look at the provera posts.
Sg how long have you been on femeston?
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Sgtvhilts that's the regime I'm trialling. How much/how often femoston do you take?x
Hi,
I have taken the 2mgs, but at the moment I am on 1mg (long story) works better for me with the higher dose given via patch. 👍
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Thanks ladies. I have had a good look at the provera posts.
Sg how long have you been on femeston?
Hi,
Pretty much since April 2018. A brief, unsuccessful trial of patches with utrogestan, yuck, so back on Femeston pdq 🥳. I was on 1mg, went up to 2 mgs and a very long story but now back to 1mgs (nothing to do with side effects or stuff like that)
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Thanks I wondered as the gynae said to me i could take the pill if I realy wanted but I have to understand the risks. She said if you don't get a clot in the first year you are unlikely to get one after that.
It's something I have to weigh up. There is a history of blood clots in family which i cant do anything about but being overweight and smoking is in my own hands. I could make changes which lower my risk. I've gained a stone since my oopherectomy and it's not even a year!!!
Xx
Xxx
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Yep, that's the crucial point- I get the risks and don't get me wrong , if I did have a clot I would be seriously pi**ed off, but I did it in the full knowledge. For me living life to the full is the most important thing rather than ‘dwelling' on what might or might not happen. Though it is a bit of an overused phrase ‘could be run over by a bus tomorrow'.
As for weight, I am pretty stabely chubby. Although, since i've Started to watch the carbs it has been much better and not put any on recently.....
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I'm bleeding today!!!
I've been on utrogestan for 8 days (at 200. For the first time) After a 3 week break.
I havent had a bleed since my op 9 months ago despite stopping utrogestan a couple of times.
I took it continuously at 100 til the end of April.
in the last 10 weeks I've used eastrogen patches of 200 then upping to 250 but only 2 week of utrogestan at 100. In the middle of that time.
Should the bleed concern me because of that.
Sorry I'm panicking a bit. It's just I've messed around and gone so far off piste with my HRT. I'm worried now.
maybe I've been stupid in going all those weeks without progesterone.
I dont know what to make of it. Why now? And what should I do should I just carry on taking the 200 (,I was trying to make it to 12 days).
It's very light only on the toilet paper at moment. so maybe it's something else but I have got period pain. And boobs are agony.
Help!!!
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No...don't stop...you're alright TC! Keep taking it and try and get to 12 days. Period pain and sore boobs as prevalent for me for the first 4/5 months and then the period pains settled and now I feel a bit of pain but it's almost like my body knows what to do and what it is so it's not so bad as when I first started on the regime.
I have moved to a long cycle of gel and utrogestan which works just fine - so it is 28 days gel only + 12 days utro and then a bleed - so don't panic. That's 4 weeks gel only for me, so going 3 weeks without any utrogestan will do you no harm.
There are plenty of women on the forum who use a long cycle, Hurdity is one of them, but I can't remember all their names sure there will be plenty of them along in a minute to reassure you. xx
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Tc, first ... don't panic. And don't change anything right now. We will figure this out.
The other ladies will be far better placed to advise. But I wanted to respond asap, just to reassure you enough not to panic, ok. I personally think you are (finally) having a cyclical bleed. It hasn't come at the time you expected it, but your poor body has been through a lot.
The first month for me, I didnt bleed at all. Then I stopped the mini pill. The 2nd month the bleed came through quite light and a couple of days after stopping the P phase. This 3rd month, the bleed came 3 days INTO the P phase. So it's not just you. ;)
I kept going with the P phase until the bleeding stopped. Then I ripped off my patch and am going cikd turkey. :o ... Don't do that ;) xx
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O.k thanks ladies. I'm not worried about the pain. Maybe it's a good sign that I'm getting some eastrogen, although I dont feel Like I am.
I think I can make it to 12 days. Didnt think so at beginning of week. I've had non stop headache but i got myself some migraleve
What is so weird is yesterday I had pain where my ovary would be. It was sharp as well. My mum noticed I was rubbing it. How strange.
thanks for the reassurance i wont worry now that I mightve caused thickening.. my doc has realy scared me about it.
I might have to rethink changing progesterone now. If Imy bodys finally gone into a cycle I need to let it settle dont I?
My very sleepy uterus has woken up!!
Pants do you mean you're going cold Turkey right now?
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Good girl Tc. Stick with it for now. You can always change P in a few months time, if the U is still giving you problems. But give your body a chance to settle into a cycle.
And yes, I'm going cold Turkey right now. I'm off everything. No ADs, no Minipill, no HRT. :o
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Crikey. I haven't had a chance to catch up the last couple of days. What did I miss?
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When I started my regime I would get a bit of ovary pain but then I've got mine ??? - Don't they call that muscle memory?? amputees can get it, so why not ovaries? x
Yep settle, settle, settle somethings happening TC :clapping:- lets see if it's good or whatever it is work with it! After all you've been through, your body is bound to be confused but now it might be starting to work out what it needs to do - with the help of the drugs x
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And I've had twinges (yesterday actually) where my left ovary should be. Thought it was a bit weird. Did, for a split second think that maybe the surgeon had left a bit behind. Then resolved to ignore it ;)
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Lady. Thank you so much. Phantom pain. It's to do with nerve endings. I guess that's the only explanation, or maybe scar tissue.
I'd forgotten what period pain felt like. Just the same as always. Travels right into thighs. I'm a bit encouraged now though that maybe my body is finally responding.
Could do without the bordering on migraine headaches though. And that I fear is the utrogestan. Had a full blown one yesterday.
Pants. Why did you stop everything?
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Tc, so I stopped the Minipill because I had started HRT, and felt that maybe it would be too much P and, I was taking it for heavy periods, which in theory should be controlled by the HRT. A logical decision, discussed with my GP.
I stopped the ADs, because quite frankly, they were making me depressed and were not helping with the anxiety (well, not as much as I'd hoped). A semi-logical decision, discussed with a junior GP.
Stopping the HRT was totally an emotional decision, not discussed with anyone !!
I'm not sure that it helped. I know I was only in it for 2 and 3/4 months. But I gave it a good go. And in the back of my mind is the idea that my other ovary might just kick in (sorry :-*). And if I stay on the HRT, I will never know. I've got to give it a chance. But I'm also realistic that it might not work, or work enough .... in which case it will be back to the HRT, but something other than the Evorel Sequi patches. I would want something I have a little more control over.
I think, if I'm honest with myself, I panicked and asked for medication too early (I started ADs 6 weeks after the surgery), but throughout this, I've been mentally pushing against it all.
And I can always try again with another type of AD or HRT.
And I'd rather try now, whilst work is underatanding, and it's summer. Than struggle on, still feeling rubbish, for another few months, before going cold turkey and possibly crashing and needing to take time off again.
I've rambled. Sorry. xx
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hi Tc,
sorry I haven't really been on here for a few days as am having mega-problems with Fluoxetine; 6 weeks into it I seem to be getting worse, much more depressed. But I have to say that Provera has proved much much better for me than Utrogestan, which I now think is the work of the devil.... :-\
Officially you should take 10mg for 14 days in the month, but I found the withdrawal very difficult - huge anxiety, and I don't really want to be having periods again anyway, so I decided to just halve the dose and take it continuously. My GP didn't know if that was OK or not and is seeking advice, but it says on here that it's OK, so i'm doing it anyway. The gynae I saw said it's the gentlest synthetic progestin, and of course with synthetic progestins you take a lot less anyway. Tbh I barely notice I'm taking it. Might be worth a try x
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Racjen thanks for that. I will keep the provera in mind. Withdrawal is a worry for me too with a cycle I must say.
Sorry to hear you're still struggeling with the prozac. It can take longer than 6 weeks to realy see results but you shouldnt be feeling worse. Did you discuss upping the dose with doc?
Pants o.i.c yes i remember you saying recently you wanted to see if you're ovulating. I hope that pesky little thing kicks in. Get you with your one ovary!!! I'm well jell. !! Only kidding you are younger than me so fingers crossed it will keep you going for a few years yet. Xxx
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Question (for my future reference) and for Tc ... can the Provera be taken vaginally, like Utrogestan can ? in order to minimise side effects ?
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Not as far as I am aware - orally only. Utro is the only one that can be done like that and one that is available for fertility cyclogest? Not sure that's the name but I think so.
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Provera is avaliable orally only, but I found the side effects so much less than with utro it feels irrelevant.
Tc, yes psychiatrist's recommendation is that I do the full trial with Prozac (so 6 weeks on 20mg, 4 weeks on 40mg, 4 weeks on 60mg) - I can't see any other way forward right now as nothig else has worked :'(
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Ok Ladybt. Understood.
Tc, yeah I know ... look at me ... only 46 and still with one ovary. ;)
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Racjen sounds like a plan. You might find you are o.k on the middle dose. Starting low leaves you somewhere to go so I hope it works for you.
Ladies thanks for the provera info.
Xxx
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This is weird. Pretty heavy bleeding. Backache cramps and cystitis but I feel more "normal" today than I have in a long time. Even my headache which I've had for days is better.
Went to the shops and actually enjoyed browsing around instead of walking round like a disconnected zombie. Please let it last. X
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:cancan: :clapping: Try and remember what it feels like, even if it goes away, it happened once so it can happen again! I am so pleased for you. Crappy pain is better than that awful "I don't feel myself" thing. who hoo TC's vaguely normal yes, yes. yes! xxx
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Tc, you got out of the flat and went to the shops ... you star. That's amazing. Now bottle that feeling ;)
So pleased for you. :-*
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Yay, so glad you've had a good day - I know that feeling so well, the 'yes but....', because things can change so unpredictably and are outside our control. But ladybt28 is right, remember if you felt like this today you CAN feel it again xxx
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Thank you ladies. Love to you all and hope you're all o.k xxxx
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I'm getting in a bit of a state. It's stupid I know but I've realised that I didnt change patch on time. When I should've changed on Thursday I didnt.. the bleed started Friday. Could missing 2 days (I changed yesterday saturday) have triggered the bleed. It's so confusing. I'm wondering if its uterine atrophy rather than thickened lining shedding. If the lining was already thin (which it was at last scan due to low eastrogen) then maybe those 2 days just made the difference. And I'm realy unclear about what role the 8 days of progesterone played in it. Im bleeding heavily today. It's been bright red from the start.
Im getting a bit worried about missing the patch. Obviously we dont want overly thick lining but is atrophy of the lining just as bad.
It must seem like I'm never happy but I worry as I've gone away from what the doc has told me to do. So it's not predictable what will happen using the HRT the way I am. I've got appointment Thursday.
Xx
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No I can't believe that changing your patch a bit late could have that effect. The estrogen in them doesn't just kind of run out all of a sudden - after all, you if you're changing them twice weekly there must be at least enough in each one to cover you for 4 days, I reckon it'd just very gradually taper off after that. And in any case, suddenly stopping estrogen wouldn't have that effect, it wouldn't trigger bleeding, only removing progesterone would do that. If I were you I'd stop worrying and wait and see what the doctor says (easier said than done i know) xxx
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Thanks racjen. I just worry cos I've gone so far"off piste". And in bleeding so heavy far more than my periods used to be.Thanks for the reassurance. I hope you're o.k. have you upped your dose yet?
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When I first started my utro my periods were really heavy and quite painful for about the first 3 months. I got some weird sensations inside and a fair bit of itching but then it all settled and stopped and now the "periods" are settled and fine. Being late changing the patch may have had a little bit of an effect because you really haven't settled into a pattern, but just think you were feeling a bit better in yourself and your body is actually doing something the very first time along the lines of what you want it to do. It won't have got the hang of it first time, its not that clever ;D Bear in mind we are "tricking" our bodies into doing what we want it to do! Stop worrying that you are doing something bad to yourself based on what doctors say "might/could" happen. To be frank most don't have a baldy notion they just work on theories!
Racjen's right only removing the utrogestan would have that effect. It is an imbalance between the utro and the oestrogen but I think you are on the first steps of the right track after all these months. Stick with it. Much Love xx
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Thanks lady. X
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Hiya ladies. I'm going to dr this morning to sort out my prescription debacle. I took last day (12) of utro on Monday but even before that on Sunday anxiety and agitation came back. And since I've got that dog tired feeling my whole body aches and feel sick. And got the runs. Today I woke up realy shaky. Is this progesterone withdrawal?
I'm still thinking I might ask for provera today. If this is withdrawal its realy awful but maybe it would be the same whatever progesterone I was on.
Hope everyone is o.k.
Xxx
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Sounds like it Tc, good luck with your appointment x
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Thanks perin. I'm in the waiting room. I just cant stop shaking today. 9n way here 5hought I was going to faint. Will let you know how get on xx
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Sorted out prescriptions so hopefully I wont have the same issues next time. I was so shaky. And sweating. She asked me if I wanted some more diazepam. She gave me 4. But I'm not sure what's causing it. My ears are ringing head is pounding and I keep feeling like I'm going to pass out.or be sick or both. She probably should've taken my blood pressure. But the old anxiety hook is so convenient to hang everything on.
I'm home and i had to lay straight down.
Maybe it's the heat.
Xxx
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Poor you. Did you swap to provera?x
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She said she wants me to leave things as they are until I go to Chelsea and Westminster. Iand But if I'm still struggeling after next prog phase I will go back. I might try contacting the gynae and see if she will agree to put it in writing that I can try something else. You know what they're like they wont change anything without a consultants say so. But I did say I'm not under the consultant anymore and until October my only point of contact for HRT is my gp. We will see.
How are you doing perin?
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Hopefully you'll start to feel better as the utrogestan leaves your system- I always did but it takes about a week.
I'm good thanks, currently only on the oestrogen only phase (which I always do well on), gearing up to take prog soon. But not until after my weekend away 😀
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Thanks perin. I would love to try the femeston too. Again I would have to contact the gynae she didnt say I couldnt have it but she put in her letter that "we" decided against it due to risk of thrombosis. . I've been thinking about it and surely there is a risk with taking oral progesterone anyway.
Glad to hear the tablets are working out o.k for you. I hope you have a lovely weekend away❤
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Son has a bug TC and he has been like that...and he defo doesn't need hrt? Think there is something going about.
How are you today? x
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Thanks lady. I've answered you on the other thread. Hope your son feels better soon. I know there is a nasty bug going round. But I have felt like this before. Xxxxxx