Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: starchild76 on June 28, 2019, 03:22:52 PM
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Hi everyone. This is my first post and I am new to all this! For about a year, my periods have been irregular - sometimes every 2 weeks, sometimes every 8 weeks. There has been mid cycle bleeding and the periods have sometimes lasted up to 15 days.
I went to the GP and had an ultrasound (all fine), thyroid blood test (fine), bone density scan (fine), pelvic exam and swab (fine) and hormone bloods, which showed menopause was beginning or had begun.
The doctor is keen for me to go on HRT, but other than strange periods I am not sure I have extreme symptoms. I do think I am more anxious than I was 2 years ago and sometimes I am moody. I sometimes get bloated and occasionally nauseous, but that might be related to anxiety/stress. Anyway I'm trying to read up on HRT before an appointment with the GP next week and would appreciate hearing people's thoughts and experiences. It is so confusing!
Thanks :)
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Hi starchild76, :welcomemm:
Goodness, where did you find this paragon of a GP? You've had better care than most of us get when entering menopause!
My advice is not to wait until your symptoms get bad, but to start asap for the protective effects that oestrogen gives. It will protect your health for the future, especially heart, bones and (hopefully) urinary tract and genitalia, although the latter two cannot be guaranteed as many women eventually need local oestrogen for that area as well as systemic. (Not all, though.)
As I only have to use oestrogen I can't advise on anything containing progestogen, but there is information on the main menu under treatments and I'm sure others will be along to advise.
JP x
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Hi starchild, welcome! :)
I'm afraid I will add to your confusion.
I have a completely opposite opinion to Joanie...
My honest experience and opinion is that if you take hormones to compensate for your naturally depleting hormones, then you are messing with what your body is naturally trying to do.
This will just delay your natural menopause, because you are fooling your body and keeping it falsely at a different level. When you then stop taking the hormones, your body will then of course start your delayed menopause. Hrt also brings all kinds of other awful side effects for a lot of people.
Everyone is so different, so, many women that decide to go on hrt, spend years and years trialling different hormones and different combinations, therefore really messing up their bodies. This then brings its problems later on.
Excercise, supplements and healthy eating is what your body needs at this phase to keep everything as balanced as possible.
That's my view. Hope it helps and doesn't confuse too much. Read up and go with what you feel is most sensible for you.
X
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Hi Starchild76
The choice is yours really. If you think you are having symptoms go ahead and try hrt.
You can decide better when you've had a read around on here, but don't leave things to long
to start getting out of control. Joanipat is so right about the protective part of oestrogen, and the more oestrogen we loose, the worse the symptoms.
Have a browse around and look what's available for perimeno.
Good luck.......
:welcomemm:
Jd xx
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Hi starchild76 and welcome to mm
I had an early menopause and was fortunate to have a GP at the time that recommended HRT. I was experiencing exactly the same symptoms as you. I am now 63 and stopped HRT 3 years ago and I am very grateful to that GP as I dread to think what I'd be like now if I hadn't used HRT. HRT is far from perfect but it can give you your life back.
Jari obviously had bad experiences with HRT and has clearly found a good way forward. She may be one of the lucky ones whose hormones have balanced out naturally giving her a slightly easier menopause ride. The menopause may be a ‘natural' process but I'm afraid it is quite wrong to say that HRT is merely delaying the menopause and it certainly does not mess with the natural process. A hundred years ago you were lucky to live long enough to go through the menopause. In the past women were put into asylums or deemed hysterics because of the effects of the menopause. Many simply became permanent invalids.
As and when a women stops HRT you won't necessarily suffer badly but at least the negative effects of oestrogen deficiency will have been reduced. Many find flushes etc subside quicker when they stop HRT if deeper into post menopause. The Menopause process will last between 3-8 years on average with some women experiencing flushes and night sweats for 20 years or more. We all experience the menopause differently and there is no right or wrong - I believe you have been given very good advice by your GP because you are too young to be going through menopause and you have everything to gain and nothing to loose by trying HRT.
Yes, it can be trial and error before finding the right regime for you and what you use may need adjustment as your own hormones drop. You may also need local oestrogen to prevent atrophy. Having said that, HRT isn't for everyone but if your oestrogen levels are falling before the age of 50 then it is wise to supplement them with HRT for your long term health. HRT can not only help you through the peri menopause phase which will often result in great fluctuations in your hormones (which is why you are experiencing problems now) but it will give you that vital oestrogen that protects your heart and bones for the long term - no amount of exercise or good diet can compensate for oestrogen deficiency.
The lobby against HRT is still strong with many women feeling guilty that they are using HRT - many women feel a failure if they need HRT.
We must remember that quality of life is very important. I believe that trials have shown that 5 years of HRT in our 50s (when it is normal to go through menopause) will protect the heart and bones for the long term.
What many women don't know about are the problems with urogenital atrophy and this is very common when oestrogen levels drop. Even though I was on HRT I still developed atrophy in my mid 40s and it is deeply unpleasant - I dread to think how bad it would be now if i hadn't had HRT.
A good HRT type to try first might be Femoston 1/10 as it has one if the kinder progesterone types.
Keep us posted about your progress - we are here to support you. DG x
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Ok. So here's my brief opinion. I'm 46, didn't think I had any peri symptoms, then had one of my ovaries removed a few months ago. I'm trialling HRT now.
Up until that point I had been on the minipill (for 12 years) to help with heavy periods. It is also an option for irregular periods. You can take the minipill up to age 55 (even if you carry a little extra weight, and/or smoke) as long as you don't have a history of blood clots.
Alternatives to taking a pill every day are the progesterone implant and the mirena coil.
Another option (if you are a healthy non-smoker) is one if the 2 newer forms of combined pill (I can't remember their names), which you can take up to age 50.
Then there is the HRT option and the natural option (manage symptoms as they occur, with life style changes, diet, exercise, supplements).
So there are lots of options, depending on what you want to achieve. Lots to think about. The majority of these options can be tried and then changed if you don't like them. The exception is the mirena coil and progesterone implant, these are both more of a faff to get in and to get out again.
As has been said before, you seem to have a great GP. So work out what you would like to do, and then listen to the guidance they give you.
Best, Pants.
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Dancing girl is correct that I had very bad side effects to hrt, which I tried for 2.5 months. It made me realise how powerful it is and what damage it can do. I wrongly rushed into it. A simple example would be, if you have a headache coming on, do you run to take headache pills or do you stop and think. Most headaches are due to dehydration, so perhaps drink some water first....before rushing for the pills. Of course, if it develops into a bad headache and the rehydration doesn't help, then think about the pills. For me, it's the same in this case.
I definitely think instead of rushing for hrt, give some thought to diet etc.. realise that, yes, you may have some hot flushes etc, but you may be one of the many where these symptoms will ease and pass.
If you go the hrt route immediately, then you won't know if you are one of those and will end up on hrt for decades, too worried to come off it, because when you do, you will get the same hot flushes etc as your hormones decline.
I am not having an easy ride as I have had bad hot flushes/night sweats and stiff joints, but these have definitely eased... I take good supplements and try to excercise as much as I can.
I'm finding that black cohosh may well be helping with hot flushes. Still trialling it. Have taken it for 3 weeks so far.
X
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I have been Lucky.
Maybe keep a mood/symptom/food diary for 4-6 months, in the mean time discuss with the GP the many ways of administering HRT - a good diet, regular exercise etc. as suggested is important anyway. I walked 2-5 miles daily for many years :scottie: in all weathers :D. When we went on holiday to The Lakes, it was a lot more miles every day, plus hills and Dales. I never felt it necessary to ask for HRT.
Hormone replacementTherapy ;-). My oestrogen levels dropped naturally in that my periods waxed and waned for 3-4 years. I knew that I was in The Change but didn't have flushes for very long, those were mainly after my evening bath ::). I did get vaginal atrophy much later on so do read the threads a bout that one: forewarned is forearmed.
HRT doesn't have to be for ever. It can be more trouble than it is worth if a lady isn't 'suffering' too much. It's a personal choice if symptoms aren't interrupting sleep or daily routines - so decide whether you need to alter your diet, up your exercise etc..
As oestrogen levels drop off muscles may become lax = aches and pains. Also the body may become dry: inside and out :o :o ::)
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Jari - you make some good points, however, as starchild76 is so young it is still advised that HRT should be given - it's not just the menopausal symptoms that HRT reduces, it is more about maintaining oestrogen levels which are so important for maintaining the bones, heart and urogenital health.
It is a great shame you struggled with HRT and I hope you didn't experience an early menopause as it can be very difficult to protect your heart and bones if deficient in oestrogen before the normal age of menopause (52-54) - do have a bone scan just in case.
Even when using HRT it is extremely important to look at lifestyle and improve your diet and exercise as much as possible.
Do be careful of Black Cohosh as this should not be taken long term and I would take professional advice about taking any alternative remedy that could have toxic effects. Unfortunately many use herbal and other remedies believing they are safe when in fact they should be approached with caution. Have you tried Red Clover - I take this in the hope it will help my bones and heart.
The peri meno stage can be very tricky as your own hormones will fluctuate in the background causing highs and lows. I believe that starting on a very low dose is sensible and only increase if after 3 months the symptoms haven't eased. Sadly some women do struggle with progesterone but there are different types to try and unless you have been through at least 3months on any HRT type you can't tell whether your body is benefiting or not. Like all treatments, it is about the benefits versus the side effects.
All I know is that I had to try various regimes before finding one that suited me and then I stuck with this for 10 years. HRT got me through some very tough times bringing up my children and coping with a hectic life. I took a break for 3 years in my early 50s and struggled greatly with sleep deprivation - so I went back on HRT for another 4 -5 years and then decided to stop HRT when I reached 60 and life was less frantic. I'm afraid the menopause is not something you 'go through', it is a permanent state and some women do better than others. For me the worst symptoms are the sleep deprivation, lack of energy, loss of self esteem, horrible headaches and joint problems but I now structure my life around coping with all this: Mindfulness, Pilates, a good diet, lots of brisk walking and generally pacing myself. I do use Vagifem regularly and will do so of the rest of my life as the UTI type symptoms, burning etc. are truly horrible.
Using HRT is a personal choice but an early menopause should receive medical management. I get very cross when young women who are experiencing an early menopause are just told to ‘ride the storm' - I believe this is professional negligence, as not treating an early menopause could cause awful long term problems.
I hope your finding this discussion helpful starchild76. DG x
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here here dancinggirl, well said, I agree 100% (aged 41yrs and peri, on HRT). I had 3 years of awful symptoms and told repeatedly couldn't be menopausal as blood test normal (my OH asked Endocrinologist how reliable are they and told 100%), I believe original GP, Endo and Immunology have been negligent in my care & just pray it has not had a significant impact on my long term heart & bone health. It was actually a relief for me to get diagnoses & (appropriate) treatment. Did think of pursuing it, but don't have the energy, which I know is not good enough for others benefit I should complain.
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Don't take on the Medical Profession: Life is too short to stuff a mushroom ;-)
It comes down to GPs not being up-2-date with what is required. No lady is too early into menopause - some girls never have a period, some have 1/2 then nowt. Some ladies start The Change 'earlier than expected' but no one is every 'too' early. If a GP believes that then they should be doing tests to see exactly why!!
Let us know how you get on! All experiences are welcome as they are education as we go along, something to take to the next lot of GPs ;-)
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DG, thanks for your very good points. I was post menopausal by age 49. Never had any peri menopausal symptoms until age 48, when the hot flushes/night sweats started, so I guess you would class me as having had an early menopause. With my family breast cancer history I have been very much warned off hrt, because they were estrogen receptive breast cancers (as are 80% of BC) therefore as the cancer thrives off estrogen and hrt is estrogen, it's obviously not advisable.
I'm not sure what I could be doing about bone density as you feel that might be a problem due to my early menopause... I think I will see my GP and ask for a bone density scan!? Is that something the NHS will do? Do you know what is involved in a BD scan? I would definitely be keen to know if my bones are affected and therefore what I should be taking for that.
Thank you! X
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Ps... just out of interest, I just looked up about bone density scans on the NHS site under osteoporosis. It says that osteoporosis might happen if you have early menopause ( which they class as under 45 ) and also if you've had ovaries removed.
So they wouldn't class me as having had early menopause, but I will still ask about a bone density scan as this would be interesting. X
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Ps... just out of interest, I just looked up about bone density scans on the NHS site under osteoporosis. It says that osteoporosis might happen if you have early menopause ( which they class as under 45 ) and also if you've had ovaries removed.
So they wouldn't class me as having had early menopause, but I will still ask about a bone density scan as this would be interesting. X
I recommend having it done. I have had 2 such scans since 2015. In 2015 it was following a wrist fracture but was ok. Then i had it done again last December as a check because of menopause. I had very mild osteopenia so now (at 56) I am trying patches to prevent that getting worse and also to help with VA and aching joints.
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Initially I had bone scans on the feet/ankles - provided through the Works' Insurance Cover in the 1990s. I was told to up my diet but the diet sheet covered everything we already ate ::) 'so up your exercise' ???. The best place for a scan apparently is pelvis and hips, that being the densist [sp] area.
Speak to your GP and ask if it's available in your area? If you are covered by a Health Scheme it may be possible through that. I had mine done a few years ago and there was no evidence of problems.
Good diet, brisk walking every day ........ lots of sunshine ::) but maybe not until this evening?
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Thanks CLKD. I'll try with my GP. It's maybe a good idea as I have a slightly earlier menopause than the average age 51. I'll see what the GP says and go from there.
As I'm not taking hrt, maybe they recommend other medications for bones.
Walking and good diet I'm doing already, so it may be just fine, but it would be interesting to get checked out of interest, along with a vit d test, again just to know. Not sure if gp will do that though, but worth a try I guess. X
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Jari, I asked my GP for referral for dexa scan & he was more than happy to do it based on my age (41yr) and family history, also underactive thyroid which increases your risk too. A week later I got a message from the GP surgery that they wanted me to arrange an appointment for a FRAX score. I don't know whether this is to try and reduce the number of scans being done ie if the score is below a certain number then not to have a scan, maybe its my suspicious mind!! ;D
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Thanks Foxylady. Good to know! Did you have the Frax score already? If so, how was the result? X
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Hi there
I started with symptoms around age 42 and only started HRT age 48. I asked for hrt to help with hot flushes, palpitations and disrupted sleep. I was feeling quite virtuous managing without medication (apart from intermittent beta blockers) up to that point.
I think you need to read ALL the symptoms of perimenopause and decide whether any of them are disrupting your life. Personally, I found hrt has not only helped with the symptoms I was aware of, but oh so many other things that I hadn't thought were anything to do with hormones have also improved. I actually feel like me again. After a few years of low energy and aching and actually LOTS of symptoms, which I put down to getting older, I now feel there is life left in me yet!
We are all different, so it has to be a personal choice for you. The website is great for information, as is this forum. Don't rush into anything, but mull it over for a while. I too recommend a mood diary - It really helps to see what's normal life stress and what might be hormone related.
Good luck with everything!
S
Xx
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Why not give it a try, see what happens.
I started 18months ago, but looking back I probably have had symptoms from 44/45., but they weren't affecting me or noticeable enough to put 2 n2 together.
I am total convert. Although i've Had some stop/starts with different things.
My GP asked when I would consider stopping- I told him never!! Lol.
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Jari, to go on the 8th July to GP for FRAX score (soonest appointment :().
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Hi Jari
I must amend my advice to you regarding alternative options: I suggested you try Red Clover but I'm afraid if you have a strong family connection for oestrogen receptive breast cancer it's probably best to avoid anything that might add to your oestrogen levels.
Getting advice about how to maintain your bone density is important. DG x
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:thankyou: Sparkler :foryou:
How do we know how what we eat might interfere with oestrogen levels :-\ - my Oncologist never warned me about food stuffs! simply 'no HRT for you my Lady'. Well, we will see I thought ::)
How much Red Clover would one have to ingest over how many weeks in order to raise any risk?
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Thanks DG. I'll make sure not to take red clover.
It's worth pointing out that only 5-10% of BC is hereditary and all women must be aware to keep a check, particularly those who go through menopause after 55, as they have had more estrogen in their bodies for longer, especially if they are taking estrogen hormones.
X
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Hello ladies,
A massive thank you to you all for replying! :) I really appreciate it. It is very interesting and useful to hear such a balance of views, and it will help me to work out what to do.
My GP is great and I did speak to her today about it all. She told me the options, pros and cons of the different options, then said what she would do if it were her. I do think she is a great GP. I am more interested in it from a 'protecting my bones/heart' point of view than anything else as she has explained that it is a bit too early. But having said that, I do sometimes feel that mentally (and sometimes also physically) I am not quite the same as I was 2 years ago.
I am edging towards doing it, but not until after the summer, because I don't want to be trying out new drugs when I am on holiday, just in case. I was quite keen on the combined patch but understand it is not currently available.
In the meantime, I am going to try to look at my diet, which I already think is quite good. But I am going to get some flaxseed in the supermarket next time I go. Even if it makes no difference to hormones it's good for you anyway...
Thank you again for taking the time to reply to me. It is very interesting to hear your experiences as this is very new to me!
x
PS: Jari, I had a bone density scan and it was just like an x-ray of the hips. It was done on the NHS. I did have to do some kind of questionnaire first, which was filled in online and I got to see the results. They were borderline as to whether a bone scan was needed or not but the GP decided to do one anyway, which I am grateful for.
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Hi again.
I might have said earlier, or not, but I was prescribed hrt about 18 months before I actually did it. I really feel your indecision and dilemma. After lots of research I went with evorel 25 patches (lowest dose possible) and separate utrogestan (fewest side effects). That has worked well as have been able to adjust the evorel up to 50 without changing the utrogestan.
I felt odd for the first couple of weeks, as the estrogen kicked in, but has been fine since. Some ladies struggle with progesterone but I like the amazing sleep I get for 12 nights. I work long long hours 6 days a week So need to be able to cope with lots of energy.
Sparkler
X
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Hi starchild76
I think you are wise to wait awhile as you are clearly quite early in the peri menopause stage and so you do have time.
Don't think of HRT as a ‘drug' - with HRT you are simply replacing the hormones your body should be producing naturally. Also don't expect side effects or problems as the majority of women do extremely well on HRT. This forum is often visited by the women who struggle with HRT.
I personally wouldn't go for the combined patches as they are medium dose and I found them too strong in the peri stage. As you have such a great GP you could ask to try low dose oestrogen patches or Oestrogel (1-2 squirts per day) then have either Utrogestan or Provera for 10-12 days each month for the progesterone phase - this combination can be a good HRT option as it would allow you to start low and then adjust if needed.
Why not print off all the info about various HRT types for peri menopause and also the oestrogen and progesterone sections under TREATMENTS on this site so you can discuss your options with the GP.
DG x
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Sparkler and DG. Really good advice for Starchild. I think I should have gone that route myself.
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Hi Starchild, it sounds like you have a good GP which is great.
If you try flaxseeds, the dark ones are best ( also called Linseeds) and best ground. I bought a seed/coffee grinder from cuisinart which does a great job.
They are tiny polished seeds so go straight through you if not ground.
Thanks for the info with the scan, I have made a gp appointment for next week so will see what she says.
She told me she would never prescribe me hrt so in a way she should agree to a bone scan in this case. Let's see...
Walking/excercise helps with balancing hormones, as well as lots of healthy foods. Lentils, chickpeas, oats, fruit n veg etc
X
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Hi - I am new to this group also... I started having hot flushes at 43 and irregular periods, I didn't consider HRT at this point. I am 50 now and for the past 3 years I have had a horrendous time, hot flushes, periods still all over the place, horrendous mood swings, head felt full of cotton wool, couldn't sleep for the night sweats & burning feeling, aching joints (climbing stairs was so painful) and weight gain which is most likely caused by me not exercising as much because I felt exhausted all the time. 3 week ago I gave in and started on HRT, is it working? Well its most likely to early to say. Ask to be referred to a Menopause Clinic if there is not a GP at you practice that specialises in the menopause, where you will get much better advice. The longer you can live without HRT the better, I seriously only considered it as I felt sorry for my husband, family and work colleagues as I could not control my mood swings which I think is all caused by exhaustion due to lack of sleep :)
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Hello starchild76.
I see that you have received a good range of responses which is what a forum is all about .
There is nothing like learning from the experiences of other women who have actually tried HRT.
The unanswered question is how do the women who ‘ sail ' through the menopause manage it, what's their secret? Obviously those women would not be posting on this site so we are unable to benefit from their experiences and knowledge which is a pity. Perhaps there should be a 'Menopause Doesn't Matter ' website lol!
Wishing you well in whatever you decide to do and please keep us updated.
Take care.
K.
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Kathleen - you raise a very important point. I personally don't think women 'sail' through menopause as such, it's just that some women suffer more symptoms and problems than others - they don't necessarily DO anything different or have any magic strategies that stop the symptoms, they are just LUCKY. Yes, you can and should improve your lifestyle, but for many women their 40s, 50s and 60s can be very stressful for many reasons e.g. continuing to work till late 60s, looking after elderly relatives, children unable to leave home etc. so having the time and energy to devote to managing menopausal symptoms can be very difficult. I'm afraid it's often the women who don't have to struggle badly with menopausal symptoms who will deride those who have bad symptoms as “ making a fuss†and they will often ridicule women for using HRT. When doctors send women away telling them to “ride the stormâ€, this really makes my blood boil.
I am 63, very post menopause (since late 30s) and stopped HRT 3 years ago - I used HRT for most of the last 25 years but found progesterone progressively more difficult to tolerate: though my meno symptoms are not as bad as they once were, I'm still suffering with occasional flushes, difficulty sleeping, bad headaches and my joints have deteriorated greatly despite plenty of appropriate exercise - for me the summer is torture.
Genetics must have something to do with all this and also some women's bodies possibly adjust better. It could be that their adrenals and other bodily functions pick up the slack. I have friends who have barely had a hot flush - ironically three friends who didn't suffer with bad menopausal symptoms, so didn't use HRT, actually developed breast cancer!!??
Also there are some who THINK they have sailed through menopause to find that after a couple of years (when the oestrogen levels have bottomed out) they start to get more symptoms. Things like urogenital atrophy can certainly come as a surprise to many women because they haven't had a problematic ‘change'.
We are all different and experience the menopause differently. The women who visit this site will often be those who wisely want to become more informed and deal with the menopause in a proactive way. There will be thousands of women who are suffering because their GPs have sent them away to ‘ride the storm' - some simply ‘don't want to make a fuss' or are frightened of trying HRT. Many women will be using HRT and simply getting on with life very successfully. Many women come to this site because they are finding it hard to find the right HRT type for them.
HRT won't fix everything, it's far from perfect and I think more needs to be done to help women with peri and post menopause, especially if they want us to work for longer. Women need o be encouraged to make their own choices about how they deal with symptoms and not be made to feel they are ‘making a fuss' or derided if they need HRT. GPs certainly need to stop dishing out antidepressants instead of HRT as the front line treatment. DG x
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Great post Dancinggirl :)
Hurdity x
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I agree - well said DG!
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Great post, Dancinggirl! I am 44 and dithering about whether to take HRT....only symptoms are fatigue and memory can be awful. When I contacted Dr Hannah Short she unfortunately said that HRT is not generally prescribed when the only symptom is tiredness.
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Hi I'm very new to all this hrt stuff but having suffered symptoms for a few years I wish I'd gone to my gp sooner .My symptoms have progressively got worse from being 42/3 and now I'm 46 and in my first week of taking femoston. Already my mood has lifted... its very early days but I was willing to try anything! But I'm sure because I've tried to manage things myself , eaten well, stayed very fit etc my hormones have taken their toll. I've posted in the private section if you would like to have a look, my symptoms were mild at 43 but I think it's something you should be aware of ( if you're not it's a shock 😳).
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Great post Dancinggirl :)
Hurdity x
I agree too.
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Had my GP appointment re FRAX score, I have to say I think it is flawed!! Although I have strong family history of osteoporosis, aged 41yrs (peri), under active thyroid (I believe this is a risk), etc my score is below the threshold that the NHS will DEXA scan, if I want one need to go private. I have been taking high dose vit D3 for around a year and now on HRT so I suppose my risk will be lessened.
Just a wee update, since starting on Everol 75mcg patches & Provera 5mg daily (3 weeks ago) my sleep has consistently improved over the last week, other than wakening at 6am on Saturday I have had a week of great sleep. Migraines and breakthrough bleeding for 4 days but otherwise positive & feeling so much better.