Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Anjia on June 04, 2019, 07:28:48 AM
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Now I have probably asked this another time but has testestosterone helped with foggy brain and anxiety for any of you ladies ?
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No Birdy to be honest I never really thought about this but I will take notice now of symptoms and my diet thanks.
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I started On a new hrt regime about a year ago. Prior to that I was taking indivina. New regime is oestrogen patches and various different progesterone (not sure we have perfected that element yet) and androfeme (testosterone) cream. I felt better after about a month, definitely less anxious. I do put this down to the testosterone as I had been taking oersteogen and progerstone orally with the indivinia, but I guess it could be a combination of everything. Testosterone has Also helped with libido. Both of these things combined have made me feel better generally about myself. I won't say the anxiety has gone, but definitely better. Are you considering it or waiting for it to kick in?
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Thanks Natatters I have been thinking of it for a while the last time I asked my gp for it she refused so I'm going back to try again and hope this time see another doctor who will prescribe it.
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I get mine privately. Was at GPS today and asked again if they could prescribe. They looked it up on their system and the answer was no. I did ask about androfeme though and I am not sure that is available anywhere on the nhs.
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Testosterone has given my life back.
Prior to using it I even struggled to go to the supermarket with my hubby, now I don't even give it a second thought going alone. Mine was social anxiety and since introducing T I actually arrange social meet ups ! X
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No I haven't had a uterus for years although I have dabbled with progesterone and tolerate it well x
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I am waiting for a private prescription for testosterone from NHS menopause consultant. Reading your story gave me hope. I've been so down and anxious not wanting to go out or do things. I hope it will have a positive effect for me too.
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Hi...I'm curious what dose of testosterone, daily, you all are on. I'm in the US and started Testosterone about 6 months ago, I use a cream in a click dispenser from a compounding pharmacy. I started at 1 mg a day and now am using 2 (one click morning and night). It is actually amazing. Not only has it really brought my libido back (not in a crazed way just something like it was prior to peri-meno 10 years ago) but really helped my energy and sense of well being. No side effects so far. My gyno who is great with hormones said use it vaginally, I do that and also rub on outer thigh, lower abdomen or forearm, sort of alternating.
Re estrogen HRT, I am also on Duavee (Duavive in UK and CA) which is CEE .45 (somewhere between a .25 and .50 estradiol patch) + bazedoxifene so no prog needed though i have a uterus. Need a bit more i think so may supplement with .25 patch. it's a hack but my doc says it works. May try the same dose in just estradiol patch or gel, plus prog, just to compare, after that.
also use local estring and estrace gel for vaginal and urogenital issues. Also use a little estrace on my face which no one talks about but is brilliant ;)
anyway the T has been brilliant, I actually think i had a lot of it in younger days, but also the fact that i take an oral estrogen (same with the lo loestrin BC i was on at peri) supposedly eats up free testosterone and makes you even more in need of it.
I do hope it lasts, the good effects of it. Wondering about dose though as I really dont want my hair to fall out (had a bad experience with this a few years ago with getting off a higher BC pill) or grow facial hair.
I'm 52 and no period for over 6 months. peri since like 45.
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Hi cityrat
:welcomemm:
Have a look at the long running thread in Private Lives - Tesosterone Here We Go - for lots of experiences. Also I did a post on doses here: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,39588.60.html
I use a daily pea-sized blob of 1 % gel applied to lower thigh inside knee - in UK there are no products currently on the market designed for women (as also in US). In Oz there is Androfeme cream which some can get privately in UK but very expensive.
In UK (and in US!) compounding pharmacies dispensing Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy ( BHRT) creams are not recommended for general HRT for a variety of reasons although testosterone cream may be OK - I hope your blood levels of T are being monitored along with SHBG to make sure you are within physiological range? Provided you keep within range then hair loss should not be an issue so you must get tested - no-one can guess what dose of cream will do this as the dose will be variable with different pharmacies. Control of hair-shedding anyway seems very complex to me and I don't fully understand it! ie testosterone can actually leader to thicker hair on head - something to do with conversion to DHT, and yet too much T can lead to hair loss and hair growth in unwanted places???
Not a good idea to supplement extra oestrogen while taking Duavive but if you are under medical supervision and being monitored might be worth a try? The oestrogen dose of Duavive is low hence not suitable for wmen who need more oestrogen! The trial studies that led to its introduction did use different doses of oestrogen (CEE) as well as bazedoxifene (sp?) and I do recall that higher dose of oestrogen led to nore instances of breakthrough bleeding. I think also that bazedox... is dose dependent ie more needed for higher doses of oestrogen so I would be cautious here and report anything abnormal to your doc.
Hurdity x
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Cityrat, that's interesting. In Spain (and I imagine it's the same in the US) you can buy bazedoxifene as a separate product so I decided to run my own trial of bazedoxifene with Oestrogel. I didn't experience any breakthrough bleeding but my symptoms returned so I had to stop. That said, I think it's a regime that could work well for some women.
I've topped up with patches in the past (not with Duavive though) and it's worked well but have you thought about topping up with Oestrogel or Lenzetto - Evamist in the US? It might work better.
I'm now settled on a continuous combined HRT regime including testosterone.
Good luck with your trials.
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I think Testosterone has helped my anxiety at times - mind you only have mild anxiety. Also helped with aches & pains, hoping it will eventually have some effect on libido.
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Like I said - for anyone reading this, it specifically says in the product info for Duavive that extra oestrogen should not be added due to increased risk of endometrial hyperplasia - "Women taking DUAVIVE should not take additional oestrogens as this may increase the risk of endometrial hyperplasia and endometrial carcinoma".
Cityrat - If your doc has suggested this and is prescribing it then hopefully s/he is prepared to monitor your uterus lining to check?
Hurdity x
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I started the testosterone today. I obtained Androfeme on private prescription from my NHS menopause consultant. It was ordered last Wednesday and arrived last Friday at my local pharmacy. The dose is 0.5ml cream to be applied daily. I am hoping it helps me as my blood testosterone ratio was well below 1.
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Let us know how you get on with it NuclearScientist. I found libido wise it was not an immediate thing, but interestingly it helped my brain fog quite quickly. I am, it seems a little unusual with that, some poor ladies have no impact on brain fog whatsoever.
I was just accessing thoughts quicker and sharper although I can still have problems if I get tired. I have been on it 7 months now and it made all the difference when it was added in. Good luck x
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Let us know how you get on with it NuclearScientist. I found libido wise it was not an immediate thing, but interestingly it helped my brain fog quite quickly. I am, it seems a little unusual with that, some poor ladies have no impact on brain fog whatsoever.
I was just accessing thoughts quicker and sharper although I can still have problems if I get tired. I have been on it 7 months now and it made all the difference when it was added in. Good luck x
It's really helped my brain fog too x
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Hi, I hope you don't mind me piggy backing onto this post...
I see that some of you are using Androfemme testosterone cream.
I have been prescribed it privately today due to very low testosterone levels and my symptoms etc
I've had the clinical advice but wanted to back this up with your personal experience please.
- best place to apply?
- how often to apply?
- apply at same time as Oestrogel?
- timescale for noticable improvements?
- in what ways has it helped?
- is it comparable to Nhs prescribed testosterone?
I understand that there are moves to get this product available on the Nhs at some point (fingers crossed as it is sooooo expensive!!!!).
Thank you as always for your help x
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That's good news Bobidy that there are moves for androfemme to be available on the nhs. Did your specialist inform you of this?
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Hi, yes she said 'things were happening', a bit vague but a step in the right direction. I think it's because women's healthcare is not a priority, but I'm pretty sure if anyone can sort it dr Newson can. It's ludicrous to pay so much for it! x
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I agree. We used to have intrinsa which was a T product specifically for women, and it's heartening to hear that this issue will be rectified x
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Hey Annie0710 - really good to hear that T is helping you.
Bobidy - cant help with the Androfeme as I have never had it but I know there are women on the forum who get it - some not from the UK so maybe someone will be along to tell you of their experiences.
In terms of timescale with T generally - as with everything meno it really depends on how your body reacts. My brain fog went in about 2 weeks, the libido thing took 3 months. Some ladies don't seem to report any perceptible difference which is sad for them.
I think with T nothing is dramatic, it just kind of creeps up on you but it does seem to be an important element for the body kinda linking the Oestrogen and progesterone together.....even if you don't feel mega results, it does do something and I think our bodies need it...we had it before meno, why would we not need it now?....ll that's my opinion anyway.
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In response to the lady Bobidy questions, I apply to top outer thigh alternating daily at the same time when I take my progesterone tablet and apply oestrogen gel. It's a lot of hassle 3 separate things. I've just been taking it for a week on private prescription from NHS consultant. I find the syringe fiddly to use and clean. I immediately place in recently boiled water and keep refilling the syringe with hot water to clean it out. If you don't the testosterone cream dries solid inside. I contacted the Australian manufacturer via the website to ask for advice on cleaning but they never bothered to reply.
Good luck and keep us updated. I will update all how I get on.
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Hi, Dr Newson advised me to use the syringe a couple of times to get an idea of the amount needed then just do it by eye. She said a pea sized amount was about right.
I too find the oestogel a bit of a faff, particularly using day and night but I'm sure I'll get in the routine. Maybe once I'm post meno I'll use the patch instead for ease. I don't need progesterone so that's a blessing.
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Thank you. That's a great tip to use a pea sized amount by eye. Let's keep each other updated on progress.
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Just so you know nuclear scientist they are petit pois not marrowfat size! ;) ;D ;D ;D
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NS - yes that would be great. I'm not going to start until end Sept so will keep you informed. It's great to have somebody to compare to (even though I realise we will probably react a little differently to each other). Thanks x
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Well so far so good and 2 weeks in I think I can think more clearly, brain fog seems to be clearing and I feel quite positive which I haven't done for a long time just coming up to 2 years . I hope I am not speaking too soon.
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That's great NS, and reassuring for me. Do you use every day? Where do you apply?
I had some great news yesterday. I went to my docs expecting a battle for the testosterone / shbg blood test on the Nhs, but he was great (locum). I explained that I was paying for private meno care and the Androfemme but really wanted the estrogel and blood tests on the Nhs to help keep my costs down. He said yes no problem!!! He even doubled my estrogel from 2 pumps to 4 each prescription, I was ecstatic!
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Sounds good Bobidy!
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity, I feel like I'm getting somewhere now.
NS, sorry I can see that you answered my question previously, doh!
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Bobidy we said we would compare and I've been taking testosterone since 13August so over a month now. Brain fog has cleared and I feel I have more energy and confidence. I am going back to see NHS consultant in 2 weeks.
No issues with area where I apply the cream top of thigh alternating sides each day. I used your advice about pea size blob and measure by sight rather than using syringe. How are you getting on.
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Hi NS, great news about you. It's very reassuring.
I'm on holiday at the moment so going to start the Androfemme when I land back. I'll probably wait until 1st Oct now so I can remember the start date. I wanted to get my oestrogen levels up a bit before I started as they were still a little low apparently at 270ish. I've gone up to 3.5 pumps (split am and pm) of estrogel and feel pretty good on that.
I'm looking forward to starting the Androfemme as hopefully that will be my missing link fingers crossed.
It's great that you can see improvement so soon as I think it can sometimes take 6 months.
I'll report back with an update, please still let me know how you get on xx
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I've also just started taking Androfeme, hoping for more energy and clearer thinking mostly. I'll try to report back on any improvements/issues too.
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Hi,
I use 3 pumps oestrogel daily, I have mirena coil and estring for VA, using all for almost 4 years, but only upped to 3 pumps oestrogel as of January this year.
I also see a private gnoses for Mona Lisa laser which has taken time, and money!, but improved things considerably, now maintenance is the key to continued success.
Bladder frequency and urgency/urge incontinence, low libido and energy are my residual issues, and my private gynae has prescribed me tostran gel 2% to try.
Having read hundreds of posts on forum 😊 I started a week ago Wednesday, using a petite poi's sized amount daily.
I had some heavy head days and felt a bit agitated/more foggy, so thought I might be best to do one pump three times a week instead.... I applied one pump Wednesday and felt great all day, I teach dancing (7 classes a week) and had lots of energy, a really good day.
Thursday I didn't use any, still felt ok.
Yesterday I applied another pump, and initially felt ok, but by mid afternoon I felt very foggy, agitated, almost shaky, like I had pent up energy, a bit like having too much caffeine, not a nice feeling at all 😟., and I've just had a terrible night, first time in a long time, restless, I woke a 3 for a pee and couldn't get back to sleep, laid there listening to hubby snore, tossed and turned until 4:30 then went to spare room, managed to get back to sleep eventually, don't know what time, and woke at 7:30.
Any advise please? I feel the tostran has helped already in some ways, like frequency appears to have improved, and definitely improving energy, but too much so like yesterday and last night.
Without wanting to give too much info, intimacy was great the other night too, desire not improved, but response definitely! 😊
Wondering whether it's best to try two pumps a week maybe monday and Thursday? Or whether due to my response I'd be better to try petite poi's sized amount three times a week? Say mon, wed, fri?
I know it takes time to get individual dosage right, and I'm happy to give this a good try, but I'm scared of feeling how I felt yesterday again 🤷♀️
Thanks in advance x
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My approach to any of the gels is start slow and build up to let the body get used to it. Sometimes the body reacts and you feel a bit worse to start with because it's a bit of a shock to the system, that it didn't have this before and oh now I've got a chemical I thought I'd lost. I did every other day to start but then everyone reacts differently. Just think about the advantages until it settles which should be or maybe about 3 weeks. :) I'm on Tostran too.
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Hi Ljp,
It does sound like you're reacting to the Tostan. I can't see agitation/nervousness, etc. as a known side effect of Tostran on the patient leaflet, which I assume you've looked at https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/332/pil The top ingredient in Tostan is propylene glycol, which I personally avoid whenever possible. It's claimed to be safe and is in everything from food to cosmetics. Agitation is cited as one of the consequences of PG toxicity, but I can't imagine a few small blobs of Tostan being toxic. Maybe one of the other ingredients isn't sitting well with you?
The consultant I see was prescribing me Tostran and recommended a pea sized blob every other day, so 3x a week sounds about right. But have you thought of reducing the dose to see if you can tolerate that better?
I ended up getting Androfeme because it's designed for women and because I MUCH prefer the carrier ingredients - no propylene glycol! I'm taking the lowest dose every day. Day 3 and I haven't noticed anything good (understandably) or bad. :)
S x
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The advice from the Chelsea and Westminster clinic is to start Tostran at two pumps per week rising to max of 3 but the BMS guidance says alternate days - which gives 35 mg the same as Testogel sachets if the latter are made to last 10 days.
However my sachets of 1 % gel last longer than 10 days (more like 2 weeks) and that is enough for me, so I would be tempted like Ladybt says to start low and slow with the T and my gynae said it can take 4-5 months for the effects to be felt fully throughout the body so don't be in a hurry to increase!
I'm not sure how the progestogen levonorgestrel relased from the coil interacts with or affects Sex Hormone Binding Globulin and with added testosterone.
Hurdity x
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Hi Ljp,
I was prescribed Tostran privately but had the same side effects as you with only very small doses, palpitations, headache, anxiety and feeling very ‘wired' and unable to sleep :(
I also have a mirena coil and as Hurdity said I am unsure how the progesterone in it effects the use of testosterone ? it could be that we are sensitive to something in Tostran or that 2% is too strong even used in small amounts for us. The doctor who prescribed it said it was unusual to have these side effects but I have read on these forums that it does happen for some.
I no longer use it and am I undecided if I want to try again with a different testosterone...
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I reacted to something in testogel and had similar symptoms, but found I can tolerate testim in very small doses. Like the others have said It's a trial and error thing really x
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I have not noticed any adverse effects with Androfemme Testosterone. I apply to upper thigh alternating each morning. The only impacts I have seen are positive in terms of drive, energy and cognitive function. I am going back to see NHS Consultant this Friday.
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I've reduced my tostran to a petite pois sized amount every other day this week, and feeling good so far 🤞
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Hi, just checking the petit pois pea sized amount. When I've used the Androfemme syringe for 0.5ml of this 1% gel it is definitely much more than x1 petit pois. More like x2 peas.
But I think as Dr Newson advised a pea sized amount I'll just do it by sight and then ask again at my next appointment. I think I'd rather err on the side of caution than be using too much.
I don't want to use the syringe each time as it wastes some of the cream and as we know it's ridiculously expensive!! x
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Annie0710
Hi Annie can u just ask what estrogen you take ?
What testosterone you take ?
Have you experienced hairloss on your regime ?
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Annie0710
Hi Annie can u just ask what estrogen you take ?
What testosterone you take ?
Have you experienced hairloss on your regime ?
Hi Sammiejane
I use oestrogel - 3 pumps daily
Tostran - 3 pumps weekly
Vagifem - once daily
I suffered sudden and severe hair thinning prior to this regime (I was on patches and no testosterone) so I figured I didn't have much to lose but so much to gain by testing out testosterone. It has actually helped my hair, it's more manageable and healthy looking and seems thicker x
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Annie0710
Hi Annie
What patches were you u on prior to the gel and was it the patches that caused your hair loss ? I briefly came off the gel to try Estradot patch but was instantly shedding more hair and only did this because I wasn't obsorbing the gel well but I have gone back on it and increased to 2.5 pumps and hopefully will get testosterone of gp Tuesday which I hope will help my hair shedding ?
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Annie0710
Hi Annie
What patches were you u on prior to the gel and was it the patches that caused your hair loss ? I briefly came off the gel to try Estradot patch but was instantly shedding more hair and only did this because I wasn't obsorbing the gel well but I have gone back on it and increased to 2.5 pumps and hopefully will get testosterone of gp Tuesday which I hope will help my hair shedding ?
It was estradot I was on too. I hadn't thought that it could be that that caused it, I can't fully remember the timeline but think it was around may I tried them and July I noticed hair shedding. Ironically I tried estradot again recently and had to stop as it really makes my heart pound more and my head started itching again like it did back then when I was shedding.
I could have the dates all wrong though but it was definitely July 2015 that the hair saga started.
It's much better now xx
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Annie0710
It's funny isn't it yet estradot lists hairloss as a rare side effect but the gel I think had not only caused hair thinning with me but it's caused my hairline to recede all round my ears and front hairline nape of neck is the worst, but when I swapped from patch back to gel it triggered the irritation around my hairline and this happens I believe when the hair is gunna fall out or recede further !
Did you find your hair is better on the gel and testosterone vagifem regime has it stop falling out now ?
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Annie0710
It's funny isn't it yet estradot lists hairloss as a rare side effect but the gel I think had not only caused hair thinning with me but it's caused my hairline to recede all round my ears and front hairline nape of neck is the worst, but when I swapped from patch back to gel it triggered the irritation around my hairline and this happens I believe when the hair is gunna fall out or recede further !
Did you find your hair is better on the gel and testosterone vagifem regime has it stop falling out now ?
Mt scalp was very sore and itchy immediately prior to, and during the shedding. It's much better nowadays and I do believe the testosterone has helped, as hair thinning can be a symptom of low T. I just am grateful for each day that my hair looks ok x
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Annie
Are u still on the gel now ?
I also tried vagifem but 5 weeks into taking this I noticed hair shedding but still shedding now not as bad so don't think it was that but who knows I think it was estradiol in general for me or it's imbalance of hormones
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Yes I'm back on the gel now.
I think my shedding coincided with around the time I became post meno. I had a hysterectomy years ago so could only go by blood results to give a vague idea of where I was in meno
It's mind boggling, the whole thing is just too confusing. Hair thinning has a multitude of possible causes x
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Annie0710
Did u have ovaries removed to ?
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Annie0710
Did u have ovaries removed to ?
I chose to save my ovaries, I suffered complete prolapse age 23 after a traumatic birth. So at 32 I decided the time was right to get shot of the womb, the blood supply to the ovaries was accidentally severed during the op, and no one knew it had happened, so about 4 months after the surgery I started getting symptoms . Gp ran tests and my oestrogen was very low. The ovaries were chugging along working a tiny bit until about 2012, age 45, I came crashing down. The ovaries have shrivelled and gone so my symptoms kind of made sense x
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Annie0710
I had everything removed at 35 but wish I had kept my ovaries , I didn't really suffer meno symtoms only a couple of hot flushes so was manageable carried on as normal hair was lovely and thick extra thick infact weight loss felt great pain had gone but then summer 2018 started getting damp knickers I thought prolapse but GP said no everything fine I thought this was Carmer for not being in estrogen hrt for over 4 yrs and although I tried it and had terrible side effects it gave me kind of meno symtoms the GP at the time said it dosent suit to stop it so I did not knowing much about meno at the time , roll on to sept 2018 and I restarted the same patch I was on before but had same side effects although hairloss not one of them managed 7 weeks but couldn't cope so 2 weeks later I thought I'd try vagifem as my only symtom was vaginal and gynocologist thought VA but 5 weeks into taking this my hair shedding started couldn't believe it so I swapped to Ovestin thinking it was vagifem that triggered it but then started dec 2018 the estrogel after seeing meno spec but hair is still shedding so I'm thinking for me it surge in estrogen that's caused it or now lack of progesterone and testosterone due to imbalance as my estrogen higher then these two hormones I've tried upping the gel from 2 to 3 pumps as not obsorbing well but aniexty irritation comes on , VA has improved but not great I now have exessive sweating in groin and armpits which I think is rise in estrogen causing because I had the sweating for first couple of years but by year 4 when my estrogen was at its lowest it stopped , I swapped to estradot breifly as weren't obsorbing gel but VA worse and hairloss worse these are my 2 symtoms really but my worry and unsure of what to now is causing depression and mood swings I just want to cry I'm so tired of it all and no one is helping me menopause think hrt dosent suit me and to stop it but I now only 40 the estrogen is causing me pain in stomach and digestive issues my hairloss is getting worse not better my GP won't give testosterone because meno need to perscribe it and meno won't because my estrogen level is only 104 and not what they call optimal but it may never be optimal I've given up work as can't cope my relationship suffering with partner and my kids I just can't function I contemplate given it up but worry I'll fell worse or hairloss be worse etc and then the next breath I think well is it because I have no progesterone ? Does anyone know what impact progesterone / utrogestan has on hair?
I can't have estrogen tablets has to be transdermal due to my GI and bowel issues ! I just want my hair to stop shedding it was it's worse today 35 hairs I brushed out full length I don't understand as my bloods all normal
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Hi all
I have just got some of my results back and my testosterone is less than 0.4 nmol/L - just wondering if anyone can help me with understanding where this sits in the scale - Dr. Google is confusing me! The paperwork seems to suggest that the scale is 042-2.06nmol/L
Thanks
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Mine was unreadable as it was less than 0.1 back in Feb, had levels checked again in August and there was no change. I took this from what the consultant said that I literally have no testosterone in my body so it's going to take a lot longer to get my levels back up.
I think 0.4 is the lowest of normal levels - but I'm not 100% sure, hopefully someone else will be along to answer.
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Nairncat - are you taking testosterone? T tests are pointless otherwise as they are at the low end of the range in a lab test designed for men's ranges so doesn't pick up the subtle differences in the levels in women. Also SHBG needs to be measrued too as the lab test measure total T much of which is bound to SHBG so there is a formula for working out free T from total T and SHBG.
Hurdity x
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Sammiejane I really sympathise with you. I felt like you do. I saw an nhs gynae who simply said there's no more they can do. I was on max oral oestrogen and vagifem daily but I wasn't prepared to accept his answer. If lack of hormones were making me feel so ill then surely I deserved a chance to replace them ? I , like you, had to give up my full time career as I couldn't cope with the pace, had no energy and zero confidence
It is important to raise your oestrogen levels before adding T. That was the only thing in my favour, since starting hrt at 32 it had kept my E levels at a good number x
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Hi Hurdity
Not at the moment. They have tested a load of stuff this is just the 1st one back and I don't really know much about this area - linked to our chat on the other thread of stopping cold turkey.
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This is the fact sheet from BMS and includes the calculation.
https://thebms.org.uk/publications/tools-for-clinicians/testosterone-replacement-in-menopause/
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This is the fact sheet from BMS and includes the calculation.
https://thebms.org.uk/publications/tools-for-clinicians/testosterone-replacement-in-menopause/
I currently use Testogel 16.2mg/g gel which isn't listed on this link. My husband managed to order it for me as my doctor wouldn't entertain it. I have to say it's been amazing. As my gel isn't listed I wonder if my dosage is ok. I rub a little finger nail amount on my upper thigh each morning
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I don't know why it's not mentioned on the link because it is approx half-way between the strength of the Testogel tubes and the Tostran. I suspect it is because they don't recommend it - the main reason being the amount dispensed per pump is high - I did work it out on this thread:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,39588.msg626743.html#msg626743
One pump of this gives 1.25 g gel = 20.25 mg testosterone so presumably some is wasted if you can't pump out smaller amounts? However if you are managing to use a small fingernail amount then that's fine.
Oh I've just noticed that you are not using this under medical supervision. I can understand why - if you have symptoms but it is important that your T levels (and SHBG) are monitored once you start - to ensure your T level remains within the physiologcal range for women. if you can get a referral to a menopause clinic this would be preferable.
What other HRT are you using, what are your symptoms and are you peri or post-menopause?
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity.
So helpful.
So pre meno and up and down during peri, my libido was what I'd class as normal. My kids had left for uni and husband and I were enjoying the freedom of no kids wandering about ;). Fast forward to meno and I had absolutely zero drive. My feelings for husband hadn't changed but I just could not get aroused ( sorry if this is detailed). It was like my body had shut down. I did actually visit the Newson Clinic but I was having dreadful experiences with my migraines at the time so that was the main topic. However I did mention the absolute lack of libido and she said that Testosterone would be a possibility. I live nowhere near the clinic though -a good 3-4 hour drive and when I mentioned it to my GP I was told a flat no. I read on here actually about someone ordering it from the internet so did and it has changed everything. I feel just like I did pre meno and pre peri. I don't seem to have any side effects so I'm so reluctant to stop
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Hi Hurdity, see the supervision of testosterone, I was given it with my gel and my utro in February. My hrt clinic and consultant did not follow up after 6 months for the testosterone and nor did they follow up after a year for the gel and the utro. I asked my GP about this and she wrote to them asking if I could have a follow up and blood tests and they wrote back saying that as I "didn't have any problems, there was no reason to follow up"! I am far from happy but they have written it down on NHS paper and signed it so if something goes wrong...well??? They don't seem very bothered by testing, I thought I might get them done privately but now I am confused because the people who are supposed to be bothered don't seem bothered and are not afraid to say so. Confused.Com? x
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Ladybt can't believe that, they really should be checking you are getting on ok & of course your blood pressure! My GP asks to see me every 6 months now, but to start it was every 3 months and with my testosterone I went back after 3 months but next appt at clinic is 6 months along with having blood test as well.
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Yep YG, I reckon they should be doing a lot of things but they're not. I don't have a beard, a deep voice or a growing adams apple and I feel pretty ok and luckily I don't suffer from health anxiety (just imagine what I'd be like if I did, given their attitude!).
I officially have it in writing I am on no follow up anywhere at all! ::)
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Ridiculous ::) ::) Thank god you are clued up about what to look out for, seeing as you can't rely on Dr's!
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;D heavens to Betsey...rely on Dr's...what a ridiculous idea! I would trust this forum far more than any Dr so I feel perfectly safe for the time being....but's its wrong really when you think about it.
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Libido disappeared about 4 years ago. Been on Evoril Conti past 20 months and don't feel great on it, awful migraines, hot flushes and no energy. So went to see a private GP after reading this fab forum.
She did a blood test and my results came back low <0.4
She has prescribed me with Testogel sachets, which I will drop into the chemists today. She also said my Oestrogen was low and wants to up that as well but we have to wait until my BP comes down. I have a follow up appt with her in January but I can always reach her by email.
I, at least, feel like I am doing something. Past couple of years have been absolute hell and the NHS GPs have been useless.
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Hi heavenlyblue - all I would say is that I have high blood pressure and no one has ever worried about me increasing my oestrogen alongside it. The issue for my GP was that I was having so many panic attacks and permanent anxiety she said no wonder your blood pressure is permanently high and that if she got the anxiety down the blood pressure would stabelise more along with the blood pressure medication and the two would work hand in hand - more oestrogen would help lower the blood pressure cos it knocked out the permanent anxiety.
Glad you got your testosterone.
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Hi heavenlyblue - all I would say is that I have high blood pressure and no one has ever worried about me increasing my oestrogen alongside it. The issue for my GP was that I was having so many panic attacks and permanent anxiety she said no wonder your blood pressure is permanently high and that if she got the anxiety down the blood pressure would stabelise more along with the blood pressure medication and the two would work hand in hand - more oestrogen would help lower the blood pressure cos it knocked out the permanent anxiety.
Glad you got your testosterone.
Thank you for replying. Well I suppose as it's the first time I have seen this private GP (Dr McCulloch), she probably wanted to be on the safe side. Its frustrating though. Still waiting to hear back from my surgery to get a 24 hour BP monitor, its been over a week since I requested one. So I am still on 50mcg Evoril Conti.
Re the Testogel. Anyone else get issues trying to get the Chemist to prescribe it? Took the script into the Chemist. She spent ages at the pc trying to find where she could get it from and then asked me if I knew this was for Men only. I said I did. She then said she needed to speak to the GP to make her aware this isn't licensed for women. I said she obviously knows this. That is what the script was for. But this Chemist had obviously not prescribed it for a woman before so looked quite confused and said she had to speak to her. She rang the clinic but Dr McCulloch was with someone so she left a message for her to ring her back.
Dr McCulloch had emailed me, with a letter she had done for me to send to my NHS GPs, letting them know what she was prescribing me. She also was checking I had received the script so I told her the issue and that could she ring the Chemist back. Was also told it would be about £46....at least it lasts a long time!
Why is it so hard for women going through this to get the help they need with the NHS? So many hurdles.
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Just an update from me. I had a call from my NHS menopause consultant who is excellent. She said 2 months in on testosterone and the level is double what it should be. She told me to look out for change in voice or hair but I have no bad effects. She also asked me to reduce the dose by applying on alternate days only. She has arranged for me to go back and see her mid December for more blood tests. My confidence and energy is so much better and the brain fog is gone. All good. I said on a hair and beauty post that I am now taking hair volume gummies by Nordic to see if it improves my fine thin hair.
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Glad to hear of the improvements NuclearScientist - sounds good. Don't worry about the level going too high, like the consultant says just ease off to alternate days or twice a week. Now the level is up you probably just need a maintenance level. x
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Just an update from me. I had a call from my NHS menopause consultant who is excellent. She said 2 months in on testosterone and the level is double what it should be. She told me to look out for change in voice or hair but I have no bad effects. She also asked me to reduce the dose by applying on alternate days only. She has arranged for me to go back and see her mid December for more blood tests. My confidence and energy is so much better and the brain fog is gone. All good. I said on a hair and beauty post that I am now taking hair volume gummies by Nordic to see if it improves my fine thin hair.
That is really good news. Thanks for the update. So glad you are feeling the benefits :-)
I will be starting Testogel tomorrow. Energy has been on the floor for almost three years now. x
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Glad you are feeling better Nuclear scientist - and good that you are being monitored closely. Some changes may take weeks to develop. I gather there should be no changes to voice if levels are kept within physiological range for women but I can see you might need to be cautious if levels are high. My legs have become hairier and my levels are within range but I think that is due to the effect of T at the application site and spreading to adjacent skin. Hopefully your levels will now stabilise and you will continue to feel well...
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity and Lady BT. I appreciate the advice through this site.
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Birdy - pea size blob = petit pois, NOT ordinary or marrowfat! ;D People's fingernail sizes vary so ignore that. If it is making you feel angry use only twice a week or once a week. Dosage of Testosterone is an even more inaccurate science than other hrt! Another one for trial and error. It will settle but you need to find out the right dose for you and once a week maybe enough for you. You will need to see how you go. xx
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I've been on it for about 10 days now and I still have some left, perhaps I am not putting enough on.
Though I would rather be on the side of not quite enough than too much.
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Heavenlyblue It can take me 4 weeks or thereabouts to use one sachet, that's a pea sized blob every other day! Funnily enough the consultant expected me to use pea size blob twice a week with one sachet lasting a week - that's just crazy!!
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The problem is with the higher strengths of testosterone ie the Tostran ( 2 %) and the Testogel pump pack ( 1.62 %) - it is even more difficult to gauge a tiny amount because slightly bigger or smaller can make a huge difference and this underlines the problem of using a product designed for men. We need something for women at much lower concentrations of T to gel, where it doesn't matter too much if you use a bit more or less or spread it on a slightly bigger or smaller area (like with oestrogen gel) or a measured pump dose.
Hurdity x
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I suspect the irritation and anger is due to fluctuations from applying T on different days. Adding T to my regimen actually made me CALMER, less emotional and more focused. On gel, I used a little amount DAILY. Now, on injections, levels are stable. I personally would never apply T gel every few days and would worry about the ups and downs in levels.
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Erika28
Just reading your post have I understood correctly that you have T via injection?x
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annie0710
i'm not sure if i've asked you this before annie but as you take estrogen and testosterone did the estrogen cause you hair thinning ? what estrogen do you take and did you find that testosterone helped stopped it if you were?
thanks
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Erika28
Just reading your post have I understood correctly that you have T via injection?x
Yes. :)
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Interesting. How often do you have the injections and do you get them on the nhs?x
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I know I'm not Erika but I've looked back at her posts and she's from Canada so defo not NHS. There are no T (nor estradiol) injections available for women in UK as part of menopause, so very much a non-standard regime. I don't even know that there is any research into this but haven't come across any. As far as I know T injections in women are only used as part of gender reassignment ie female to male, so way off-label for menopause.....Please put me straight anyone who knows anything more about this!
Hurdity x
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Hi Birdy
Did you have any problems when you stopped? Any withdrawal symptoms?
Thanks
Jeepers
xx
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Thought I hadn't heard of it before 😀
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In rare cases, it's been prescribed to ciswomen. I inject a very small amount of testosterone cypionate every 4 days. It's been working out quite well for me and I have had much better results vs gel daily. Less side-effects (coarser body hair, acne/oily skin) and more benefits like increased energy and strength, libido, sensate clitoris, less cellulite, nicer skin and hair, improved mental disposition (calmer, improved memory, better mood), sleeping better.
Sometimes, you need be a little bold to get where you want. ;)
The problem with gel is that since testosterone is applied to the skin where there is a high concentration of 5-alpha reductase, more of it gets converted to DHT so that one gets more DHT then they should relative to T. DHT is a stronger, more potent androgen which results in scalp hair loss, acne, more and darker body hair (especially where applied). :( I didn't like it.
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Testosterone can convert to estrogen through aromatase. I wonder if some of its benefits are because of that conversion. Maybe it's a more natural way of obtaining estrogen then just estradiol on its own. I find it fascinating that women's bodies seem to have more testosterone than estrogen. The downside is conversion to DHT as you've mentioned, Erica28. Wish we had more HRT options, like injections.
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hi alicess
women only have more testosterone then estrogen in the lead up to menopause and after due to declining estrogen we don't permanently have more testosterone ! otherwise we would be men ! lol
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In rare cases, it's been prescribed to ciswomen. I inject a very small amount of testosterone cypionate every 4 days. It's been working out quite well for me and I have had much better results vs gel daily. Less side-effects (coarser body hair, acne/oily skin) and more benefits like increased energy and strength, libido, sensate clitoris, less cellulite, nicer skin and hair, improved mental disposition (calmer, improved memory, better mood), sleeping better.
Sometimes, you need be a little bold to get where you want. ;)
The problem with gel is that since testosterone is applied to the skin where there is a high concentration of 5-alpha reductase, more of it gets converted to DHT so that one gets more DHT then they should relative to T. DHT is a stronger, more potent androgen which results in scalp hair loss, acne, more and darker body hair (especially where applied). :( I didn't like it.
I've never come across the term ciswomen - not sure what this means :-\
What you are talking about Erika is very niche, and if I may say is not really relevant to most women at all. I mean you're talking about getting hold of some totally unlicensed untested formulation and dose and injecting it and as such no-one should even contemplate thinking about this at all. Fine what you do in the privacy of your own home (in a different country - where you might be able to get hold of something like this legally?) but not recommended here by anyone at all. It has never been mentioned on here to my knowledge. Sorry - but it gives women false hope.
Hurdity x
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I get Testosterone Cypionate (very similar to Testosterone Enanthate and longer lasting than Testosterone Propionate) by legal means, directly from the pharmacy with my doctor's prescription. A vial lasts me almost one year and costs me practically nothing as I'm reimbursed 80%.
It is intended for use by men. However, it can also be prescribed to women, at the doctor's discretion. Studies dating as far back as the 1940's have been conducted, using testosterone in the form of intramuscular injections in women. Intramuscular testosterone has also been prescribed by clinics to women. These studies and protocols can serve as a reference, a starting point, for physicians prescribing testosterone to women, it did for me and my doctor:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0002937863904289
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/10/3/348/2719859
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4701202/
https://www.myhormonetherapy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/OBGYN-1985a.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0165032788900614
I'm quite happy with the results. :) I also inject Estradiol Valerate (longer lasting than Estradiol Benzoate). This is prepared by a licensed compounding pharmacy in Canada (we have several across the country).
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erika28
interested in what you mentioned about testosterone being converted to DHT through the skin in gel form by way of high levels of 5 alpha reductase ! would this be the case then for estradiol applied to the skin in a gel would this convert to DHT?
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interested in what you mentioned about testosterone being converted to DHT through the skin in gel form by way of high levels of 5 alpha reductase ! would this be the case then for estradiol applied to the skin in a gel would this convert to DHT?
No, estradiol cannot convert to androgens such as testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Testosterone, however, can convert to estradiol but DHT cannot convert to estradiol.