Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: MicheleMaBelle on May 01, 2019, 08:59:38 AM
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Met with her yesterday- she's a professor, very nice indeed and considered to be a leader in her field.
Some of her thoughts:
HRT can be hugely beneficial if it works and you feel better on it. If you don't feel better after a while or trying different regimes, come off it. You shouldn't feel worse on it. At the end of the day, it just doesn't suit everyone.
It's easy to blame the menopause on every little niggle and ache and pain and all the strange things happening to our bodies to the point of becoming obsessive about it. Part of it will be down to ageing and sometimes we just need to adopt and more positive attitude and get on with it.
Utrogestan for HRT is designed to be taken orally and she never recommends vaginal application. It's nonsense to think that it causes fewer side effects by taking it vaginally ( although one of her colleagues recommended vaginal application to me )
There have been some promising trials carried out in France that using Utrogestan as a progesterone doesn't increase the risk of breast cancer compared to other progesterones but the data is currently limited and she's on the fence about it at present.
She was extremely nice but as you may tell, she was certainly no nonsense and didn't mince her words. I liked her., she did say things I didn't necessarily agree with ,but I thought her comments were interesting enough to share. X
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Go on, Name and Shame ;D
Some do find that vaginally suits them better. Unless she has spoken to every woman that uses HRT she can't make sweeping statements ;)
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Yes, as she actually tried it herself MicheleMaBelle?x
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;D. reading your name I now have an ear worm :lol: which rather dates me :whist:
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Well, it's not something I was going to challenge her on was it? I take it vaginally. But, for the past few months I've more or less taken it orally and I've not had a repeat of the side effects I had when I first tried a couple of years back. TBH totally fed up with the whole bloody carry on so I'm thinking of chucking it.
I won't name and shame. I thought she was lovely. I understand that she played a large part in putting together the current NICE guidelines on HRT prescribing.
We've just got to do what we think suits us best as long as it's safe and we aren't taking any medical risks. If shoving the tablets up your fanoosh works, keep doing it girls!
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Interesting feedback MicheleMabelle!
I know who you mean now you mention the NICE Guidelines! However I am surprised at what she says about oral vs vaginal utrogestan.
There is published research which states that the number of metabolic by-products from oral intake are far greater than for vaginal use due to going through the liver, and it is some of these which are responsible for some of the adverse sdie effects. There is greater systemic absorption ( again from some published research) showing higher systemic levels of progesterone itself from vaginal use compred with oral use of the same dose - so sdie effects due to the progesterone ( acting on progesterone receptors) may well be higher for vaginal use - but usually women are able (with support from their medical professional) to take lower doses vaginally than orally because of going to the womb first and not the liver.
Taking it vaginally means more is absorbed. Plus hormones should not bypass the liver and taking them orally means they are.
I'm glad you found her reassuring and trustworthy. unfortunately, there are plenty of noteworthy doctors who say the opposite about hormones used orally, and this is just one example of why dealing with menopause and imbalance is such a head f8ck!
I think you mean the other way round Birdy!! Hormones (prog) used vaginally DO bypass the liver (ie straight to uterus and into bloodstream), and taking them orally means they are NOT (bypassing the liver) - ie they go through the liver first.... :)
What are docs saying the opposite about - sorry - a bit puzzled here?! (I agree that some docs are often ill-informed though!!).
Hurdity x
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Hah hah, reading that do you know what I want to know (hee hee you all probably don't!) anyway.....I think we should make it a forum policy for all members to ask any so called female menopause health professional they meEt, if they are menopausal and whether they take hrt??? I really like to know how many of them who spout on, actually have any physical experience in the subject?
The only saving grace seems to me to be that here on the forum we end up seeing different consultants who all seem to have different opinions and so I suppose we can learn about different options. Mind you, wouldn't it be so much easier if they all stuck to the same line? "discuss"?? ;D
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Yeah I was surprised as well Hurdity. She also said the Oestrogel shouldn't have given me a rash but it did, wherever I used it. In fact, when I started the Utrogestan initially my whole torso was covered in a horrible rash too.
It's all a mystery to me...
Ladyb- that's a good idea. It was on the tip of my tongue to ask but I bottled it in the end ( first time meeting, didn't want to appear too cheeky)
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See the oestrogel giving you a rash Michele, probably the ethanol (alcohol agent) in it that caused the problem. Anything with that in it can be quite hard on sensitive skin, like toner or face stuff with alcohol agents in it and it's easy to be allergic to things like that when absorbed into the skin and it doesn't need to be localised either.
….make sure you ask her next time ;D I'm dying to know!
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When my gynae said "utrogestan is well tolerated, its unusual that you dont get on with it" I said "not according to my menopause forum". Well....youd think I just insulted her mother.!!
So called "experts" dont seem to like the idea of "people power" or in this case ",women power" which we gain from being able to share experience and info.
And they do not like being challenged which is incredible when you think about it. It's a science. And science only progresses through ideas and research being challenged. It's at the very core of every single advance in medical history.
How do we know how many women have been sent away from their doctors for being "atypical" when it comes to HRT with no further investigation. It could be enough to warrant challenging the current guidelines, vagifem being a case in point, but we wont know as its not being reported and data is not being collected on it by each doc who has a patient reporting this. How can there then be an accurate overall picture.
To me it would stand to reason that. If a treatment is clinically trialled but then is prescribed exponentially to huge numbers of people then the "adverse" reactions may be far more than is reflected in the original trial.. Too simple?
Surely part and parcel of going into the medical profession is to accept and even actively require received wisdom to be constantly evolving . Otherwise we'd all be sitting here with leeches stuck all over us and being lobotomised with ice picks for PMS.
You realy got me started now :)
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Tc- I'm googling medical grade leeches as we speak - I fear the lobotomy has already happened and I was unaware of it at the time as I was scratching my rash and attempting to insert the Utrogestan without them falling on the floor. Maybe, that's what's happened...the cats had a lick of the discarded ones, ( I've forgotten to dispose of them ) and I've got mad pussy disease! 🙀
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"sometimes we just need to adopt a more positive attitude and get on with it" sounds like something my dad would say! :-\
Re progesterone and breast cancer, I've read numerous research articles and am still confused! But this might be the research she's referring to. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17333341 They found that progesterone is less associated with breast cancer risk than progestins. Compared with no HRT use, oestrogen alone risk = 1.29, oestrogen and progesterone = 1.00, and oestrogen and progestin = 1.69. So, if you are taking HRT, you are safer taking oestrogen and progesterone than oestrogen alone or oestrogen and progestin.
This study comes to the same conclusions re women taking HRT but also concludes that there is less risk of breast cancer amongst women exposed to HRT of any type than not exposed! "The incidence of new breast cancer cases was 0.64% in the exposed group and 0.70% in the unexposed group." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17701770
Can anyone shed light on this area? I'm trying to put a presentation together on HRT and want to present the risks and benefits accurately. :)
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To me it would stand to reason that. If a treatment is clinically trialled but then is prescribed exponentially to huge numbers of people then the "adverse" reactions may be far more than is reflected in the original trial.. Too simple?
Interestingly, many drug trials have a 'drop out period' at the start where those who suffer side effects are removed or remove themselves and the trial 'proper' then starts ::). It certainly happened with the Statin trials.
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Pretty certain I know who this expert is.
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Sheanie- I cant quote you any research papers but my understanding is that the risk associated with HRT is greater if you take both oestrogen and progesterone. If you only take oestrogen, the risk is no greater than the general population who don't take HRT.
Have a look at Louise Newsons website. She has some excellent articles on HRT that are easy to understand and they contain links to further research. They would be a good starting point for your presentation. 👏
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Michele "mad pussy disease" :lol:
I actually found a patch stuck to my cat's fur. Mind you shes 18 so she could probably do with some extra eastrogen!!
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;D ;D ;D - still can't do that quote thing???? Nor can I find a post how to do it...someone please
"Tc- I'm googling medical grade leeches as we speak - I fear the lobotomy has already happened and I was unaware of it at the time as I was scratching my rash and attempting to insert the Utrogestan without them falling on the floor. Maybe, that's what's happened...the cats had a lick of the discarded ones, ( I've forgotten to dispose of them ) and I've got mad pussy disease! 🙀"
Haven't laughed out loud like that for ages MicheleLaBelle.. ;D ;D
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Michelle, I think that according to the papers I cited in my last post the risk is greater if you take oestrogen and (synthetic) progestin combined but less if you take oestrogen and (body identical) progesterone combined than taking oestrogen only and that all forms of HRT present no more risk than not taking any HRT....if I've read those articles right. There's probably research that contradicts this though. I've read quite a lot on LN's site, but will take another look. I have an appt with her in August, so should be clued up by then enough to quiz her on the contents! ;) I think I will have to print our everything I can find on this and read it carefully as jumping from one article to the next on the Internet/computer can get mind boggling.
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"mad pussy disease" - that's the common name for VA isn't it? :lol:
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I HATE THE WORD EXPERT WITH A VENGENCE :cuss: there ain't no such thing. Otherwise they wouldn't spout rubbish. :-X
Go on someone, do tell ........... :D. Don't keep us in suspenders any longer ;).
I wish that professionals would go by the book and not apparently put their personal opinions over, particularly if they have not been through menopause. Many years ago I asked for The Pill and my GP wondered what I would do if he was a Catholic :-\. At 16 I never said boo to a goose [what ever that means] but told him quite firmly that his opinions should never influence what he prescribed. "You are so like your Father". "Yep, until you prove otherwise ......... " I walked out, with the prescription ;)
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sheanie I thought the risk was greater when you added in progestins but a body identical progesterone carried a smaller risk than some of the others. Not sure what the evidence is either way.
Good luck with your appointment.
CLKD- I don't believe there's anything to be gained by naming names. I also don't believe you can rise to the top of your field without knowing your stuff and having strong opinions.
The lady in question was undoubtedly excellent, seemed a very nice warm person, she certainly had been through the menopause and was a great advocate of HRT.
:cat48:
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:cat88: :cat88: :cat88:
"mad pussy disease" - that's the common name for VA isn't it? :lol:
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;D ;D ;D - still can't do that quote thing???? Nor can I find a post how to do it...someone please
"Tc- I'm googling medical grade leeches as we speak - I fear the lobotomy has already happened and I was unaware of it at the time as I was scratching my rash and attempting to insert the Utrogestan without them falling on the floor. Maybe, that's what's happened...the cats had a lick of the discarded ones, ( I've forgotten to dispose of them ) and I've got mad pussy disease! 🙀"
Haven't laughed out loud like that for ages MicheleLaBelle.. ;D ;D
Lady BT- hit the little quote button in the top right hand corner of the post you want to copy x
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Tc, great ranty post on page 1 with really sound points - love it. Can I book you to come with me to my next medical appointment?
So sorry to hear about the scandalous GP consultation on your other thread - it tightened my throat & sent my pulse racing in recognition of some I've had over the years with medics of various specialties. Most have been wonderful but there've been the odd few whose attitude made me wonder how they managed to keep their jobs. I find it very upsetting indeed & it makes me wonder how many patients more vulnerable than me they have harmed.
I hope you manage to get where you need to be with your medication & will soon start to feel much better.
Wx
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Some do raise to the 'top' of their speciality and then get sacked due to being completely wrong about their 'findings' - fortunately, not many thus far.
Do U have a follow-up consult booked and if so, shall I fire up the Meno-charabanc ;)
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I do have a follow up booked CLKD- I'll be sure to let you know when it is .
StellaJane- it was one of her colleagues who suggested that I try it vaginally so they don't always agree x
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Thanks wrensong. As you saw my experience earlier today made this thread very timely for me.
It might sound weird but I'm pleased that I felt angry. Lately ive been so dejected and depressed I thought my natural feistiness may have gone for good It actually feels good.to rediscover a bit of fight is still there.
Sorry to hear you've come up against some "shockers" yourself. Thank you for your good wishes.
Xxx
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Thanks wrensong. As you saw my experience earlier today made this thread very timely for me.
It might sound weird but I'm pleased that I felt angry. Lately ive been so dejected and depressed I thought my natural feistiness may have gone for good It actually feels good.to rediscover a bit of fight is still there.
Sorry to hear you've come up against some "shockers" yourself. Thank you for your good wishes.
Xxx
Glad you found your feisty Tc.
I knew I wasn't completely lost, when I got annoyed at a selfish driver parking across my neighbour's drive today. And I'm back in the room !!! xx
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Pants ❤
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When my gynae said "utrogestan is well tolerated, its unusual that you dont get on with it" I said "not according to my menopause forum". Well....youd think I just insulted her mother.!!
So called "experts" dont seem to like the idea of "people power" or in this case ",women power" which we gain from being able to share experience and info.
And they do not like being challenged which is incredible when you think about it. It's a science. And science only progresses through ideas and research being challenged. It's at the very core of every single advance in medical history.
How do we know how many women have been sent away from their doctors for being "atypical" when it comes to HRT with no further investigation. It could be enough to warrant challenging the current guidelines, vagifem being a case in point, but we wont know as its not being reported and data is not being collected on it by each doc who has a patient reporting this. How can there then be an accurate overall picture.
To me it would stand to reason that. If a treatment is clinically trialled but then is prescribed exponentially to huge numbers of people then the "adverse" reactions may be far more than is reflected in the original trial.. Too simple?
Surely part and parcel of going into the medical profession is to accept and even actively require received wisdom to be constantly evolving . Otherwise we'd all be sitting here with leeches stuck all over us and being lobotomised with ice picks for PMS.
You realy got me started now :)
The meno consultant recently praised this forum and website as an info source but, on a previous occasion, a GP stood up and shouted at me for insisting that it was fine to use Estriol cream for more than 3 months. She claimed to have just done a relevant course on menopause!
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I think so Birdy. GPs would not necessarily be expected to know as much as we do about menopause since they are having to keep up with everything, but at least should be humble enough to accept that some patients will actually know more than they do. I can see it can make them feel uncomfortable....
"Mad pussy disease" I love this!!!
Tc - I quite agree that research needs to continue. The original trials for any form of medication do not seem to be lengthy, nor involved very large numbers of people from what I can see, for obvious reasons. However in order to progress once the medication is released onto the market, then further trials need to be carried out. There is the MHRA scheme for reporting adverse side effects but I don't think this scheme would pick up women who experienced a side effect more frequently than the trial found. Unfortunately accumulation of anecdotal evidence is not scientific even though individuals can vouch for a particualr effect. Whether funding can be found for future trials is another matter. It is a minefield!
Sheanie - did I see you are doing a presentation on HRT - that's great - are you a health professional? The best place to look for info first is probably not individual papers as these can be contradictory - but the review papers or consensus statements that have pulled together all the current info - and then refer back to the papers. There are seminal studies too! British Menopause Society would be the best starting point. The last paper produced about HRT which included breast cancer was 2016 - BMS and Women's Health Concern which you can find here: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2053369116680501. Also the NICE Guidelines - the detailed guidance which underpinned the recommendations. You can find this here: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng23/evidence I haven't read any of this! I am sure there are later review papers too....
Michelemabelle - also re the vag prog thing. In fact contrary to what your gyane said, utrogestan is manufactured to be taken orally or vaginally - it is only in the UK that it is only licesned for oral use as part of HRT ( but the 200 mg capsules is now only licesned or rather marketed, for vaginal use for infertility. You will see the database of medicines (the base de donneespublique des medicaments) it is listed as: "UTROGESTAN 100 mg, capsule molle orale ou vaginale " - similarly for 200 mg. In the info it gives the indication for vaginal route, amongst other uses, if sidie effects are experienced with oral use:
"Dans toutes les autres indications de la progestérone, la voie vaginale représente une alternative à la voie orale en cas:
· d'effets secondaires dus à la progestérone (somnolence après absorption par voie orale). "
In all other indications of progesterone, the vaginal route respresents an alternative to the oral route in the case:
.. of side effects due to the progesterone (sleepiness after absorption by the oral route).
http://base-donnees-publique.medicaments.gouv.fr/affichageDoc.php'specid=61673424&typedoc=R
:)
Hurdity x
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Thank you, Hurdity!!! I have saved your advice on a doc entitled 'Tips from Hurdity'! :)
No, I'm not a health professional. But I've an academic background and am used to reading research papers, scientific ones included, so I feel hopeful that I can put this together. I only started on HRT a few months ago, and am finding it so beneficial that I'd like to spread the word. I talk about HRT to pretty much all the women I come across who might be peri or post menopausal, partly because I'm curious about their experiences and party because I want to make them aware of the benefits of HRT. (I'm thinking of getting a T shirt that says 'I ♥️ HRT' ;D) So often the conversation develops out of them saying how tired they are.... I find so many of them are worried about taking HRT, see it as a last resort should things get really bad. I mention the benefits re BMD, etc. then. IMO HRT isn't just about negating the really bad effects of the menopause; it's also about your long term health. A friend suggested I did a talk with a group of women later in the summer, so I'm putting that together. I want to research the risks and benefits very carefully so I give an accurate picture.
Yes, I'm finding that individual papers are contradictory. It's normal in research, I guess..... I'm currently printing everything out and filing it, so I can go through it all more methodologically, instead of jumping from one to the other online, which never works for me, creating my own review of all the evidence. Thank you for the links. I'll start with the reviews, as you suggest. I've got a few months to do this. Doing this for myself too really, so I know I've made the right choices and also so that when my GP tries to take me off HRT, I can blind her with science. ;D
S xx
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Tc, your anger was justified & I'm chuffed for you your self belief came to the fore. It's sad, frustrating & infuriating whenever we're put in a situation of confrontation over something we need & deserve help with. Especially at a time when circumstances beyond our control make us vulnerable. I find it outrageous that there's not more professional understanding of this phase in our lives from those we have no choice but to go to for help. When we come up against a power imbalance that impedes progress, preventing us getting on with our lives, it can feel hopeless, but I never let it go if it feels justified to push. Can't help feeling we shouldn't have to do this, but I dress to impress (not talking power suits, whatever makes me feel most confident on the day - favourite old jeans if I think it will be to my advantage to go in feeling really relaxed), gen up to be sure I can hold my own & take in relevant documentation to back up my points.
Sorry, this should really be on your other thread about the horrible GP consultation, but it's a reply to your comment on here.
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So what's it all about then, this drama and overreaction from doctors and meno experts, when we show that we've done some research? Are they just being touchy as they fear being found to know less than they should?
Perhaps some of them think that we aren't capable of finding factual/reliable sources and think that we get it all from Google. 1 GP ticked me off for looking up anything myself (not to do with menopause on that occasion).
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I think too, that many don't read HRT as what it really is: 'replacement therapy' ;) - and many don't want to 'give in' to treatments :-\. I was the same when first told I require anti-depressant medication for Life but once I accepted it DH and I have fun again. Also, one doesn't have to remain on HRT for ever unless one can find a GP who will prescribe what is required and when. It's the Trial and Error that can be so tiring at a time when we need help yesterday.
Networking never hurts. Sharing experiences is essential whether it's beauty therapy or medical ....... one can listen, take notes and decide if what is suggested is appropriate at this moment in time.
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Hey Stella,
I'm not easily convinced by anything. I am very much a doubting Thomas. I need to see the evidence and then try it for myself to be convinced. I've read up a lot on HRT, and the evidence supports the view that it IS good for long term health, for bone density as a clear example. The regime I chose after a fair bit of research and paying to see a consultant is pretty much working for me, so I guess I'm lucky. But if and when it doesn't work any more, I'll go all out to find something that does. I was rock bottom a few months ago, and I'm not going back there!
Re women going to their GPs and being told no, well, I think women need to be empowered by being better informed so they don't have to take no for an answer. My GP was positive if not as well informed as I'd have liked, but I would have fought it out if I'd been told no. Louise Newson is endeavouring to educate GP's re HRT, but IMO this also has to come from the bottom up, from the customers, from us women.
I referred to body identical hormones, not bio-identical. (The former are available on the NHS in the form of patches and gel for oestrogen and Utrogestan for progesterone. As I understand it, the latter is the kind of stuff being made up to supposedly meet personal requirements by specialist pharmacies.) There is research evidence that body identical are safer than the synthetic forms (re breast cancer), as there is that transdermal delivery is safer (re thrombosis). I'm digging deeper into this right now, but the basic message seems clear. Sorry they don't seem to have worked for you. I hope you found or will find another way. But I think it's right that women are made aware of what's available and the evidence behind the claims that these products are safer than others so they can at least try them.
Based on my own experience, I am recommending that women consider HRT. So many are wary of even doing that because of all the negative hype back in the early part of the century following the WHI study. That's such a shame as I am sure many, though I guess not all, would find that, like me, it is a life saver!
S xx
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Until the British Menopause Society get their Act together and arrange compulsory weekends dedicated solely to menopause to educate GPs, Practice Nurses, Consultants: women will remain up against it. This Forum, Dr Newson, Dr Curry and our own lady who wrote 'me and my menopausal vagina' can't possible reach far enough, quickly enough to help ladies in crisis. Like wading through treacle ......... occasionally the media mentions menopause and various 'celebrities' pop up ......... then it's forgotten.
We makes a good Team we does ;)
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Until the British Menopause Society get their Act together and arrange compulsory weekends dedicated solely to menopause to educate GPs, Practice Nurses, Consultants: women will remain up against it. This Forum, Dr Newson, Dr Curry and our own lady who wrote 'me and my menopausal vagina' can't possible reach far enough, quickly enough to help ladies in crisis. Like wading through treacle ......... occasionally the media mentions menopause and various 'celebrities' pop up ......... then it's forgotten.
We makes a good Team we does ;)
Agreed. Hence my trying to set up a meeting/presentation here. I think others are too in other parts of the country. Menopause Rebellion! ;)
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I can't go to meetings due to anxiety >:(
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When I went to see my GP middle of 2018, she happened to mention that "they had all just had to go on a training course". Some of it obviously worked cos her approach to me that time was completely different to her approach on meno before especially around testosterone! What I found more worrying really is that a female GP of a certain age needed to be "trained" in meno bearing in mind all her female patients had gone or were going to go through it and before a "the training day" her approach was in the dark ages... ::) Where had she been? Didn't she read the newspapers or watch telly or read any of the info literature which goes across doctors desks everyday? She didn't even have the excuse of "being a man"!
I reckon most of the patients any GP see's come in saying they are "tired, depressed, anxious and saying suddenly I don't feel well" and I can't work out that, why if they are female and between 40 and 50, there isn't a siren going off in the GP's head and their brain isn't yelling "meno, menopause, meno"! Surely rule that out before anything else but I suppose that's just toooo simple?
There defo needs more research, I mean a lot of the drugs which were available seem to be being withdrawn but nothing coming in their place? How is that going to work and it has been in the press about it affecting women badly because they are expected to be in the workplace longer now so there is an economic advantage to getting meno sorted quickly? Maybe we need to stick our boobs to some railings or something?
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I've recently completed a menopause workshop with the company I work for and they've introduced a menopause policy. It has a clear directive for any problems you are struggling with + managers have attended (separately) so they know how to deal with issues. I do work for a really forward thinking company though (for the first time ever) and realise how lucky I am x
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Well done to that Company. Were you able to be informative?
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Yes, I saw 3 female GPs of a certain age at my surgery about HRT, and whilst they were all lovely and willing to prescribe what I asked for, they were not knowledgable. None of them had even heard of Utrogestan! Why? Half their patients have or will go through the menopause! And so have/will they.
I went to my GP a few years ago complaining of depression and was given anti-depressants, which I think is just the 'go to' response. But why, as you say Ladybt28, didn't he consider menopause. I am sure now I needed HRT!
Sticking boobs to railings. Good idea. You first. I'm right behind you! ;)
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Maybe because you complained of depression?
Mine won't reach ;D ..... but if we went to a party game shop :-\ surely large pink breasts are available?
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Gee thanks Sheanie! ::) Stick mine to railings, you could probably use me as a catapult! ;D ;D
That group Extinction Rebellion had a large pink boat at Oxford Circus - you're in charge of the large pink breasts then CLKD..!lol
Do you think we could get on the News at Ten?
Perinowpost - that's really cool. Did you do the presentation or did they get someone in and what sort of people did they get in?
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Ladybt28 no they had a professional expert in, she was really good and knew her stuff + she had been through menopause herself.
Sorry CKLD what do mean by being informative? If you mean could we share, then yes we could share as much or as little of our own experience as we wanted - it was a safe space attended by women of a certain age x
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Hello ladies.
I agree that it's scandalous that GPs are so ill informed. One female doctor told me she was an expert because she had written about it twenty five years ago. I discovered that she hadn't kept up to speed because she knew nothing about current treatments.
The first GP to mention the menopause to me was my regular doctor who asked if I was having hot flushes or night sweats and if I needed help he would be happy to prescribe it. I was forty nine at the time, was still having regular periods and hadn't had any symptoms of the menopause so mention of it was quite a shock. I bought a book on the subject and later disccovered this forum and the rest is history! I found out that his wife had suffered the menopause from hell and he had struggled to get her HRT right which possibly explains why he was so sympathetic and knowledgeable. It shouldn't require personal experience of a condition to get the right help but that appears to be what's happening. All very sad and frustrating.
Wishing everyone well.
K.
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Yep Perinowpost - did you share ;-)
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Kathleen, the personal experience aspect explains a lot I think, but not only medics' experiences of their own menopause or those of women close to them, the wider life experience that shapes our individual judgement. My male Endo is one of the most sympathetic pro-HRT medics I've ever met, but I imagine he has many middle aged women going in who need it so he will be more confident in prescribing than some GPs who were around for the years when hardly anyone asked for it, having been put off by the 2 big, now discredited studies that did so much damage to HRT's reputation.
A female GP I knew who was middle aged, often sat rednecked with a fan on her desk & door propped open, told me she didn't approve of HRT. Although a pretty tough cookie, she was very kind, I got on well with her & she supported my taking HRT - but explained her horror of it was through having to deal with patients "coming in with breast cancer". I had a lot of sympathy with her position - she simply wanted to do her patients no harm & so I appreciated it when she was open-minded enough to say HRT may be just what you need, despite my family history of BC. Nevertheless I didn't push her to prescribe it initially, as I knew she was uncomfortable about it - I went to 2 consultants, a Menopause specialist Gynae & an Endo for their opinion & both felt it was right for me. I did find it surprising that she seemed not to have learned much about HRT - she once said I knew more about it than she did! I wondered whether this was deliberate avoidance as she was so uncomfortable with it, or whether she was simply too overloaded that she never had the time. As she was the only female GP in the practice I imagine most female patients went to her for gynae issues, so that she didn't seem to feel it necessary to become well informed about HRT seems all the more surprising.
I hope that with the publication of the Avrum Bluming book & as the knowledge spreads (albeit frustratingly slowly) that the old damning studies were so flawed, more GPs will have the confidence to learn about it & prescribe when appropriate. Just feel it needs a turnaround far quicker than has happened to date & ideally that it should be compulsory for all GPs to attend up to date courses on it.
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I've got to say my GP's are very well informed, it's a practice with males/females younger and older and all have given me everything I've ever asked for. It does seem to be a bit of a lottery depending on where you live.
CKLD only a little bit, i tend to sit back and take it all in when I'm in a group. Having said that she was spot on in everything she said x
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CKLD, depression is a symptom of perimenopause, and as Ladybt28 said, anytime a woman in her 40s or 50s says to a GP that she's suffering from depression, anxiety, exhaustion.... they ought to be considering the possibility it's due to declining hormones and that HRT is a better solution that anti-depressants. Louise Newton has written something on her website about how many women who need HRT are being prescribed anti-depressants https://www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/women-need-hrt-not-antidepressants.
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I went to my gp at 47 suffering with dark thoughts, severe anxiety, insomnia, spotting and exhaustion and even asked if it could be the menopause, to be told i was too young and it was probably just my anxiety and anti d's were the answer x
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Countrygirl - the first GP I went to asking the same - could it be menopause, lost his temper & shouted at me that I had years to go before that, despite my telling him my mum had been postmenopause at 46 & I was 44 with many classic symptoms. He was wrong - it was perimenopause, but his shameful attitude & demeanour made me doubt my intuition at a time when symptoms were really scary, not least due to their similarity to being overtreated on the Thyroxine I'd been on for many years & that scenario being potentially damaging to heart & bones long term. Sends my pulse racing just thinking about him, though it's many years on from that consultation.
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I see a private gynae who is well into the late 60s and informed me that most of her patients are on hrt still and that it is totally fine to use Utrogestan vaginally, I cannot swallow the capsules so have no choice and been using it this way for over 10 yrs. :-\
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With success Cassie?
I fired up the charabanc last night but no one turned up :D ::)
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Absolutely CLKD, would not have it any other way. ;D
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That's good! Put foot down with firm hand :D
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I've had a thought. Do you think some docs are so offhand with us about HRT because they think menopause is a "natural" thing and that we are all trying to fight off time.
Im minded of a conversation with my gynae 2 weeks after ovary removal when I asked for HRT. She seemed to think it wasnt necessary because I was 53. I said "I'm in surgical menopause" and she said " well it wouldve happened soon anyway, At your age it's not realy necessary to replace what you have lost you have to accept it's happened at some point".
At the time I was in no mood to argue with her but I also didnt know anything about HRT or menopause at that time. I joined the forum a couple of weeks later. If I'd known then what I know now I seriously think I wouldve blown a fuse at her saying that.
I've not seen a single medical professional who was anywhere near the age of menopause. But that's no excuse. They dont have to have personal experience of every condition they treat but what they shouldnt do is let their personal prejudices and opinions come into it.
By contrast. The womens physio I saw today who is a bit older than me said "menopause is shit isnt it?". I thought " I like you already". :)
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'natural' isn't necessary good though: fox gloves are 'natural' ;) and so is cyanide.
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Tc, I had a BSO 5+ years postmenopause when no longer on systemic HRT. Gynae said it would make no difference as I was already postmenopause - she was wrong! I suspect they were still churning out a little while I still had them, as there have been definite & very unwelcome changes in the following year.