Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => Personal Experiences => Topic started by: Loopsie on April 25, 2019, 11:10:03 AM
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Hi,
I have been on vagifem for 7 weeks but am still experiencing burning and soreness on external area. I have been using vagisil to see if this helps but it does not appear to be working. My GP has given me another course of the vagifem but I was hoping that by now things would be improving. Has anyone else had the same experience?
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Hi Loopsie, :welcomemm:.
I would stop using Vagisil as it has a lot of nasty chemicals and irritants. Try one of the Yes products as they are much kinder for this area. Have a Google for their web site. How often are you using Vagifem at the moment?
JP x
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I agree with Joaniepat - stop the Vagisil as it's too harsh. The fillers in any oestrogen treatment can irritate at first but once the area is plumped up with oestrogen then things should improve. Do use some proper vaginal moisturiser like SYLK or the YES products as these can really help. Avoid caffeine, fruit juices and alcohol but drink plenty of water to keep the urine neutral. DG x
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:welcomemm: do read our vaginal atrophy threads. Make notes ;-)
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Thanks Joaniepat I am currently on a pessary twice a week though GP said I could reduce this if I felt better. I have only taken one this week and in some ways it is better but then as I said the external still feels sore. GP did suggest replens but I found that this irritated me more. It's been getting me down as every day it's uncomfortable and sex is non existent as I am concerned I will make things worse than what they are!
I will definitely look for the Yes products. Thanks :)
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'replens' isn't often helpful ::)
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Thanks Joaniepat I am currently on a pessary twice a week though GP said I could reduce this if I felt better. I have only taken one this week and in some ways it is better but then as I said the external still feels sore. GP did suggest replens but I found that this irritated me more. It's been getting me down as every day it's uncomfortable and sex is non existent as I am concerned I will make things worse than what they are!
I will definitely look for the Yes products. Thanks :)
Loopsie, one Vagifem a week is absolutely not enough, it would be a "homeopathic" dose so your GP is talking rubbish. Have a browse on this forum and take it from those who know!
If you did the 14 day loading dose, you need AT LEAST two a week thereafter and in your case probably more as it does not seem to be working well enough at two a week. Try stepping up to every other day for a while. Many women on here have to use it daily. Vagifem used to do a higher strength version containing 25 mcg estradiol, but now only the 10 mcg version is available so it's a very low dose now. You could ask your GP for some Ovestin cream as well. This contains estriol and can be used just on the outside bits.
I think the Yes products and possibly Sylk are the best vaginal moisturisers as they don't contain unnatural chemicals and irritants. Another good one is Olive & Bee, which is just olive oil and beeswax.
JP x
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Loopsie. The idea that vagifem is a "course" is the wrong way for your doc to see it. Once treatment stops symptoms return. Recent received wisdom is that even twice a week might not be enough for some ladies.
I personally found replens awful stuff.
I find yes a good product
As joaniepat says some of us use a topical eastrogen for the outside bits alongside vagifem. I use estriol 0.01 cream but only cos my doc wont prescribe ovestin. It is slightly weaker than ovestin so you have to use a bit more.
X
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Replens is awful. I took mine back to Boots and got a refund.
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Suzy. It's so harsh. It stings and It actually seemed to make the skin inside "shed". It's the worst thing I have used down there.
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Loopsie. The idea that vagifem is a "course" is the wrong way for your doc to see it. Once treatment stops symptoms return. Recent received wisdom is that even twice a week might not be enough for some ladies.
I personally found replens awful stuff.
I find yes a good product
As joaniepat says some of us use a topical eastrogen for the outside bits alongside vagifem. I use estriol 0.01 cream but only cos my doc wont prescribe ovestin. It is slightly weaker than ovestin so you have to use a bit more.
X
I recently had an argument with a pharmacist about how long one should use Vagifem. She was treating it as a course and saying that we only need it for a few months. I haven't had too much irritation externally so am only using Vagifem now. However I do have one small sensitive spot which itches a lot. I have tried creams but little effect. I do have 1 unopened tube of Estriol which is slightly past its use by date (end of February). I think I might try it cautiously just to see if it helps.
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Some ladies occasionally need two doses at the same time so anyone who thinks of this medication as a 'course' ain't understanding VA symptoms >:(
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Yes. CLKD
Katejo it is well documented that its not a course and symptoms return when it is stopped.
And post meno it's certainly not going to suddenly get better. It's an issue for life unfortunately.
I have had untold issues with even a consultant gynae being woefully mis informed about vagifem.
Maryjane recently did an excellent podcast about VA. She also has a book called "me and my menopausal vagina" which I highly recommend.
These docs seriously need educating about the
Medications they are prescribing. It makes me so mad.
X
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The Drug Companies are also to blame!
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No argument about that here CLKD. But the information on the leaflet states the loading dose and my gynae didnt even know about that!!
The trouble is this "lowest effective dose for the shortest period of time" mantra around HRT. They are applying it to topical treatments and the reasons are unfounded.but apart from that they wouldnt give someone with say diabetes a "course" of insulin would they. They need to realise VA is a condition which needs treatment for life . Maryjane and other amazing ladies are working on our behalf to raise awareness of this with the medical profession and the powers that be.
Maybe the reason they are slow to accept that a whole generation of ladies might need "treatment for life" is money!!!
Sadly between the drug companies and the mismanaged funds in the NHS patients come last. Rant over. Sorry about that but it makes me boiling mad :hotflash:
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It's OK to rant ;D - better now ;) ???
There doesn't seem to be any discussion between GPs and Drug Companies these days, years ago Meetings were arranged to find out about the news etc..
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Better now CLKD :)
I'm running on pure caffeine today to try to stay awake!!!
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Caffeeine makes no difference to me at all other than makes me nauseous ........
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Clkd. Normally this amount would make me jittery but it hasnt. I still feel realy tired and have done nowt but at least I've kept my eyes open since I emerged from my huge sleep at 11.00 this morning. ::)
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I know what you mean. Having a bad VA day again and feel as though I am losing so many days doing nowt.
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Suzy did the powder sachets work with cystitis or did it just come back after?
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It's not cystitis it's uti symptoms from VA. Will the sachets be any help with this. Totally knackered at moment.
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Sorry suze. I thought you got the sachets to try. . I realy need to give in to this tiredness now and lay down. I dont think I'm making much sense.
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If you are getting urine-type symptoms from VA then up the dose of the product you are using with a pain relief tablet. Or change the product?
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Also when my bowel is full the symptoms return due to pressure down there. Do you have a prolapse?
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Hi,
I bought some Yes VM and after applying it felt like the area was burning more then eased off - is this normal?
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Had problems with yes stuff also so I don't use.
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Sometimes if I am sore already it stings a bit but wears off quite quick. I think if the area is already sore anything you add might sting. Though there maybe more " soothing products" out there. Maybe someone else can advise
If it gets worse after applying and doesnt calm down I would say discontinue to see if it goes back to how it was. It's always a possibility that you may be allergic or sensitive to an ingredient as you will see Suzy had probs with it too.
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I had the Yes VM on prescription for a few weeks but had to discontinue as it caused horrible burning. Seems not to suit some of us.
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I tried a bit on my arm first and few minutes later I had a burning red reaction so did not use on vagina! I use Boots own brand vaginal moisturiser and had no problems. I contacted Yes with photo of arm and they said it may have been OK on vaginal skin, but did not chance it, enough problem down there. Yes sent me samples of their other products but I daren't try them. I have read reviews on line like Amazon and read similar.
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I'm ok with the YES WB if it's in the 5ml applicators but cant use the bigger tubes as these have a preservative in because you reuse, it's a food preservative, so classed as organic but still irritates me. The 5ml little ones dont have it. I order direct to YES now as my surgery have stopped these on prescription recently, cut backs I suppose.
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Does anyone think ovestin is better for outside bits than estriol 0.01?
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That's useful information Dierdre, thanks. I haven't tried those.
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I've only used Ovestin but I think you need less so perhaps stronger.
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Just to add. My surgery dont give yes products on prescription either. There is a list on the wall of items which have een taken off prescription and it's on there!!
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No I haven't been offered them on prescription from gp or hospital gynaecology when I was taken off hrt cream temporarily.
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Thought it was a recent thing, I've had them on prescription for years. Ordered from YES direct cost £37.99 for 30 5ml applicators but thrt should last a few months if u use 2 or 3 a week.
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Anyone got any experience of getting thrush while on vagifem?
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I've had in once in 5 years of being on vagifem so doubt it was related.
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Thanks. I've only ever had it once in my life from anti biotics
Womens physio told me today I've got it today. I didnt have any discharge I thought the soreness was down to VA.
I've taken the one off oral pill for it.
I thought vagifem is probably not the issue as it's supposed to help with ph balance isnt it?
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It's hard to know without taking a swab to test for thrush as it could be atropy soreness. If it dont clear up in a few days try taking the vagifem daily for a few days and see if it improves. Have you tried Ovestin for the outside, I find Vagifem works inside but I need Ovestin to keep the outside from getting sore.
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Dierdre. I've been using vagifem and estriol outside every other night for while but have gone to every night for the last 3 weeks with vagifem and just changed to ovestin.
Might be TMI but she said she could see the white bits on gloves and she says she can "feel" thrush as it feels "rough" inside.
I think I'm doing the most I can with the topical eastrogens. But I am still dry compared to before my op. When I had no issues in that department. I'm struggeling to get my E levels up on the systemic HRT though. Maybe that's not helping.
Thanks for your reply dierdre.x
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:-\ go back and get a swab done if symptoms persist into next week. My vagaina has always been 'rough' in side ;) . [checked with DH, Yep ::)]. When I had thrush after stopping The Pill, I had an itch high up, couldn't reach but it was constant ..........
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I needed 2 thrush tablets to clear mine, but I agree with CLKD to get a swab if it continues. I use ovestin on the outside every night, dont just smear it on or it sometimes causes irritation and you're wiping it off when going to the loo, rub it in so theres no white cream left. I then use Bepanthen on top of that to sooth any soreness and moisturise. Tried going down to 5 vagifem this week and have been ok, will use extra if needed though.
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Tc, you might want to try the Canesten gel pessary if the oral capsule doesn't clear it. Treating locally is sometimes more effective. Messy when it disperses - you will need a panty liner - but clears quickly. I wouldn't try the hard pessary (not even sure if still available) as that tends not to dissolve well if not moist enough inside. Sometimes thrush presents without much of a discharge & can just feel sore rather than intensely itchy as it tends to be when the discharge is thick. I found I was fooled by the difference in it postmenopause. Sorry - hope not tmi! They seem to have changed the wording in the Vagifem PIL - I thought it used to say specifically that thrush/candida infection can be a side effect, but checking this morning it simply refers to thrush more vaguely as fungus. Could just be remembering the wording in a systemic HRT PIL though.
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I had some dodgy looking discharge after starting oral HRT, think it was my body's attempt to produce discharge again after nothing for so long. It went when I came off it.
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Thrush is a fungus. Same family as athletes' foot ::)
I never had a discharge, but I remember well That Itch :o. Apparently there was a lot of white debris internally so the Gynae Registrar with whom I worked gave me a pessary - I think. That was in the 1980s .......
Go knickerless too ;) - let the air get to it.
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Thanks ladies. I said I was going to get the pessary and The women's physio said to me "dont put canneston anywhere near your vagina". Take the tablet. Dont know why shes got a downer on canneston. ???
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Yes CLKD - thrush is a fungal infection - I was just surprised they seemed to have changed the wording in the PIL - I thought it had previously specifically said thrush/Candida.
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I don't fancy putting Mycil powder down there though :D which is what Dad used on his feet ::)
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Tc, perhaps she felt the internal meds might burn - they can do that. A GP told me the oral capsule is often less effective than the topical preparations.
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Thanks wrensong I'll see how it goes. Weirdly since she said it I feel a bit itchy!! Always the way. :)
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Dryness = itchy feelings. Get some moisturiser down there.
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Tc, hopefully the capsule will have done the trick. Yeah - the power of suggestion eh?! ;D
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So true!!. When you dont have symptoms and something is discovered accidentally you walk out of the surgery physically no different to 10 minutes before when you walked in but you feel different. It happened to me when my ovarian tumour was found and all the red flags went up with the docs, urgent this and scan that!! I came out convinced I could feel it when half an hour before I didnt know it was there!!
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Yes - when my BSO was advised because the cyst they had been monitoring changed to being described as a red flag "mass", suddenly that years old intermittent pain low down on the side they were getting animated about could only have been due to worst case scenario in the catastrophe factory that is my tiny brain! Despite the fact the pain had preceded the red flag signs by years & I knew pressure on a cyst e.g. from the bowel could also cause pain!!
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So true wrensong. Mine was a dermoid but it's hard to tell for sure with dermoids and so it had to come out. I just wish they hadnt taken the ovaries with it. I'd never had a pelvic scan in my life so it mightve been there for years. When you end up under an oncologist you dont question when they say somethings got to come out. But then afterwards when I questioned it she said "you were told it wasnt cancer". I wasnt. They said they couldn't be 100 per cent until it was removed. I said that to her and she said "of course". But it realy messed with my head when she said that. As if I wouldve had my ovaries removed if they told me it wasnt cancer. I dont know to this day why they did remove them if they thought it wasnt.. It realy threw me into a tailspin when she said that especially as I wasnt told how serious the consequences of ovary removal can be. It made it very hard to accept losing my ovaries as I now felt it wasnt done for good enough reason and has made me so angry at myself for letting them do it. I'm still not anywhere near at peace with it .
Sorry that's all not very relevant here is it?
We realy need a BSO or surgical meno thread on here. Everytime someone mentions it on another thread I jump on it. I just realy feel the need to talk about it. It's such unresolved stuff for me.
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Some Consultants remove ovaries in case there is disease later on, saves on two GAs and a lot of illness. Because there is a little bit left I suppose that they feel it's enough to prevent menopause symptoms. You may find that methods alter over the years as medical procedures go in and out of fashion.
How's things this morning?
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Tc, I'm so sorry to hear a little of the history behind your BSO & I can well understand the conflicting feelings you have as a result. Mine happened at what was a very difficult time for me because of other stuff ongoing, so like you, I have unresolved issues I'm struggling to process.
I think the potential seriousness of ovarian cancer means if there is any doubt at all about the nature of a cyst - as there seems to have been with both you & I - removal of ovaries is always recommended.
I'm not sure whether the surgery plunged you into menopause or if like me you were already postmeno, but as mentioned earlier, I have nevertheless felt the effects of losing whatever output my ovaries were still making - especially, I suspect, Testosterone.
You mentioned the need to talk about it but that this thread is perhaps not the right place - maybe start a new one as you suggest if varying points of view would help, or if it would help to talk more privately to someone in a similar position, please send me a PM.