Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Jasmine_2015 on April 14, 2019, 05:02:18 PM
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Hello,
I have read some previous threads (including Hurditys investigation- thank you for doing this!!) but am still a bit confused as to the conclusion. I have never been given oestrogel, only oestrodose despite being prescribed oestrogel. I didn't have any luck when I asked my pharmacy to order the oestrogel, they just kept saying it's the same (which I get it sort of is!)
I have to use 4 pumps and at some point may have to increase, I do find it takes a long time to rub in and dry so would like to try oestrogel to see if it makes a difference.
I just wondered if anyone had had any luck with getting it through an online pharmacy or any other tips for trying to get oestrogel instead of oestrodose?!
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Hello Jasmine_2015.
I had Oestrogel initially but then the pharmacy started to give me Oestrodose. I wasn't sure if there was a difference but some ladies mentioned a rash appearing with Oestrodose so I told the pharmacist that this product irritated my skin so I needed Oestrogel. Since then I make sure that I write ' Oestrogel Pump Pack 17B Oestradiol. Besins Healthcare' on my prescription before I hand it in. I have been given the correct Oestrogel ever since, infact they always check that they've got it right before dispensing, perhaps they think the note is an instruction from my GP? Little do they know I wrote it and I'm certainly not owing up lol.
Hope this helps and take care.
K.
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I specify that I want Oestrogel and not Oestradose. If the pharmacy say they can't get it then I go to a different pharmacy .
I was told by a pharmacist that if the prescription says Oestrogel then they have to prescribe Oestrogel. If it says Oestradiol Gel then they can give you either. X
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Jasmine. I was given eastradose too. I didnt even realise it wasnt eastrogel.i cant offer a comparrison as I switched to patch.
But i completely concur with what Kathleen has said
Last time I went to get my estradot the pharmasist gave me everol. I said the active Ingredient might be the same but other ingredients might not. It's even much bigger in size.
He said if the doc writes a generic name and doesnt specify then the pharmacy will have a "go to" product . I said "you mean the cheapeat" and he said "well...yes".
I properly put my foot down and he changed it but said make sure the doc is very specific next time or the same thing will happen.
As dotty says If your doc wrote eastrogel and not "estradiol gel" then going by my pharmasist thats what you should be given.
. Xx
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Hia Jasmine!
I actually have Oestrogel basins blah blah the whole shebang written/printed by my doctor in type on my script, he just did it without me knowing.
I'm still on my 1st pump of Oestrogel, but since then I had a script filled and got Oestrodose, soon to be trying it.
I didn't complain bcz I thought it was exactly the same. Can someone link Hurditys post so I can see?
I haven't tried Oestrdose yet, what is the difference? Is it ingredients or anecdotally different?
TD
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Wow thank you all so much. I really appreciate your responses. Very helpful.
Sounds like I am going to need to try and be a bit more pushy, arghhh!! Will do my best 😉
Really cannot thank you ladies in this forum enough for being so kind and helpful.
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Hia Jasmine!
I actually have Oestrogel basins blah blah the whole shebang written/printed by my doctor in type on my script, he just did it without me knowing.
I'm still on my 1st pump of Oestrogel, but since then I had a script filled and got Oestrodose, soon to be trying it.
I didn't complain bcz I thought it was exactly the same. Can someone link Hurditys post so I can see?
I haven't tried Oestrdose yet, what is the difference? Is it ingredients or anecdotally different?
TD
TD sorry here is the link to Hurditys post and investigation
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,40586.msg680870.html#msg680870
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Just to clarify once more:
OESTROGEL AND OESTRODOSE ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.
I know I keep saying this, but I realise new members won't know that this saga has been going on for - well - years i think, so just saying it again!
Thanks for posting that link Jasmine - everything I found out is on there. Unfortunately the thread was led off on rather irrelevant tangents from time to time which distracted from the main points and suggested conspiracies at work. There is no evidence (other than as you say, anecdotal) that what women have been given is anything other than what Besins produce which is Oestrogel/Oestrodose 0.06% estradiol gel, given different names according to different countries.
Just to be clear - Oestrodose is not a generic form of Oestrogel (neither are Evorel and Estradot generics - both are branded forms of estradiol patch and completely different although on average deliver the same dose of oestrogen). A generic is a product with the same dose of active ingredient produced often with different fillers, and by a different company, cheaper than the branded product. Like I said - oestrodose is the name given to the gel produced by Besins in France Belgium and some other countries in continental Europe and elsewhere.
I have discussed this at length with Besins and have had several letters from them (as pdfs) with detailed responses to my detailed questions. I have also discussed this with Dr Louise Newson too (My Menopause Doctor) who has had the same information from Besins and I reported this on that thread I think too.
Any reports of a rash on any product should be reported under the side effects through the MHRA yellow card scheme, and of course to Besins if one particular batch of their gel has caused a reaction compared to other batches. So far noone has reported on here that they have reported such a batch to Besins (with the batch number etc) with a response from Besins. I think only one person mentioned they experienced this (a rash) in any case as far as I remember.
Tc please don't worry - it is oestrogel ie etradiol gel 0.06% with same ingredients manufactured by Besins in Belgium. No-one needs to worry - as it's all the same although the packaging would lead us to believe otherwise. Like I said in my last post on the main thread - why they have to do this (give different names to the same product) beats me as it causes all sorts of problems with patients feeling they are being given something other then they have been prescribed!
New members - forgive me if I sound a bit rattled - but have really tried to sort this out to avoid all of these arguments and allay any fears. If you want the box that says "Oestrogel" that's fine but you don't need to. There are more likely to be greater differences in the same bottle of whatever gel, stored at different temperatures, and time of year/temperature of your skin (affecting gel consistency), as well as what products you have used on your skin (affecting absorption) as GypsyRoseLee found and reported on another thread recently.
:peace:
Hurdity :) x
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Thanks Jasmine!
Hurdity, Amen to that!
You have the patience of a saint and have gone above and beyond by the sounds of it.
I for one won't get it twisted.
Thank you for your tireless explaining (I've read all the back story now)
:foryou:
TD
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I think that clears it up re eoastrogel and eastradose. Thanks hurdity. Thank goodness you have done all this research and can offer such informed advice. I hope you dont get fed up of repeating it but it seems to raise its head time and again.
As you know. I didnt absorb the gel so stopped but it's good to have it confirmed it wouldve been no different for me on eastrogel than eastradose.
My problem with my pharmasist was being given everol instead of estradot. It's a bigger patch. And I must confess until I just read your post I wasnt sure if the other ingredients aside from the active ingredient were the same.
So thank you.hurdity.
Good night ladies xxxx
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Thanks Hurdity and apologies for bringing this back up. X
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Please don't apologise! The time I or any of us lose patience is the time to stop posting.
I must again make it clear that there are some women who feel there is a difference. Louise Newson wondered as I did about the pump mechanism (from the repackaged parallel import, not the one that comes directly from Besins which isn't repackaged except for the leaflet and box - is there a box?) possibly delivering a very slightly lower amount of gel although I was assured by Besins that these are measured excactly as they would have to be if sold as the same product. If there was a minute difference then women on larger doses and who are also very sensitive to very small changes might notice a difference, although as I said there is likely to be some variation even with absorption from the same bottle depending on temperature.
Anyway glad you are reassured and good luck with it!
Tc - yes Evorel and Estradot are different - much more so than generics in a liquid or tablet - because the dosage is based on average release rate from a groupd of studied individuals, not the total estradiol in the patch which as you say are the same size and have different fillers ( given in the leaflet I think?).
Hurdity x
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Thanks Hurdity,
Oh well, it is strange isn't it?
Have a good day,
Jas x
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Hi, is anyone still reading these posts? I started on Oestrodose about 5 months ago. I had bleeding for the first 3 months and a shortness in breath. Both issues settled for the last 2 months. Then 10 days ago I started a new prescription which was Oestrogel. My bleeding and breathing issues have started again and are continuing so far. I spoke with the nurse practitioner yesterday who recommended that I return to Oestrodose as I must be getting more estrogen from Oestrogel. They have had to order Oestrodose specifically so am still on Oestrogel but have reduce the amount dispensed from one to approximately 3/4. No change yet but I get the Oestrodose tomorrow.
Any thoughts?
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There is definitely a difference in efficacy for some people. While manufacturers say both are identical Oestrodose is manufactured abroad and shipped here while the other is made in the UK. They both, until recently had slightly different delivery systems too. You are not the only one to have experienced this. Despite my Dr refusing to believe there was a difference I have, with the help of my pharmacist, ensured that I used estrogel exclusively for the last 4 yrs as the other leads to a return of my symptoms.
Thankfully people are now beginning to accept this as fact and If you check out Liz Earle’s YouTube channel you will see a video on this in which she gives advice on how to ensure you get the right one. In addition Manchester Menopause Dr has been in contact with Besins (the manufacturer) about this issue and has been trying to make sure pharmacy’s listen to women’s who express a preference. You can check out a long thread on this on her instagram page @manchestermenopausehive.
My own thoughts are that it is the delivery system not necessarily the product (the pumps are different) that is the culprit.
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Hi TeeLa, I think you're right about the delivery system but you're wrong about Oestrogel being made in the UK. All Besins products are made in France or Belgium (estradiol gel). The pumps and bottles are made by 2 different companies in France, the older Oestrodose was made by Rexam (now part of another company called Nemera) and the new Oestrodose and Oestrogel by Lablabo (now part of another company called Pinard). The pouches where the gel is contained and the pumps are different and that might account for a difference in dose and maybe in storage conditions. I don't know if the new Oestrogel (bottle similar to the old Oestrodose) is the same now for all products. If you search for Oestrodose on the MHRA website you'll come up with one entry for Oestrogel. If you open the link to Oestrogel you'll get two patient information leaflets that are exactly the same but have different numbers. If you download and open them on Adobe Reader they have different labels, one is labeled Rexam and the other is labeled Lablabo, they're both dated May 2020.
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Hi TeeLa, I think you're right about the delivery system but you're wrong about Oestrogel being made in the UK. All Besins products are made in France or Belgium (estradiol gel). The pumps and bottles are made by 2 different companies in France, the older Oestrodose was made by Rexam (now part of another company called Nemera) and the new Oestrodose and Oestrogel by Lablabo (now part of another company called Pinard). The pouches where the gel is contained and the pumps are different and that might account for a difference in dose and maybe in storage conditions. I don't know if the new Oestrogel (bottle similar to the old Oestrodose) is the same now for all products. If you search for Oestrodose on the MHRA website you'll come up with one entry for Oestrogel. If you open the link to Oestrogel you'll get two patient information leaflets that are exactly the same but have different numbers. If you download and open them on Adobe Reader they have different labels, one is labeled Rexam and the other is labeled Lablabo, they're both dated May 2020.
Thank you for your detailed and comprehensive reply :). I have to admit I wasn’t aware of all this, I was merely quoting the information on manufacturing orgin given by my pharmacist.
Hi, is anyone still reading these posts? I started on Oestrodose about 5 months ago. I had bleeding for the first 3 months and a shortness in breath. Both issues settled for the last 2 months. Then 10 days ago I started a new prescription which was Oestrogel. My bleeding and breathing issues have started again and are continuing so far. I spoke with the nurse practitioner yesterday who recommended that I return to Oestrodose as I must be getting more estrogen from . They have had to order Oestrodose specifically so am still on Oestrogel but have reduce the amount dispensed from one to approximately 3/4. No change yet but I get the Oestrodose tomorrow.
Any thoughts?
I see Dr Newson addressed this issue too on her website. Apparently Oestrodose is a parallel import - whatever that means. Hopefully those more in the know than I can explain that for me.
She also explains how to ensure you get the one you want. https://www.menopausedoctor.co.uk/menopause/oestrodose
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Hello ladies.
I haven't seen what Louise Newson has to say on the subject but I used to write on my prescription 'Oestrogel please' so that is what was dispensed. One time I was collecting my HRT when the Pharmacist said that she made sure that the right product was given to me because 'it was specified on the prescription'. Perhaps she thought that the GP surgery had written the note for a very important medical reason? I didn't bother telling her that it was only me expressing my preference lol.
Take care everyone.
K.
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So my latest update us that Oestradose is no longer available in the UK at all. I have to move on to Oestragel and see if I still get the bleeding, which I'm sure I will. Then I will have to have my uterus lining examined apparently.
I'm thinking I might just come off of HRT and put up with aging i.e. aching joints and worsening oesteopenia.
How does one actually come off of HRT? All at once or slowly?
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Hi, is anyone still reading these posts? I started on Oestrodose about 5 months ago. I had bleeding for the first 3 months and a shortness in breath. Both issues settled for the last 2 months. Then 10 days ago I started a new prescription which was Oestrogel. My bleeding and breathing issues have started again and are continuing so far. I spoke with the nurse practitioner yesterday who recommended that I return to Oestrodose as I must be getting more estrogen from Oestrogel. They have had to order Oestrodose specifically so am still on Oestrogel but have reduce the amount dispensed from one to approximately 3/4. No change yet but I get the Oestrodose tomorrow.
Any thoughts?
hello - I know this is an old post, but I was wondering how you were getting on?
I've just been given 6 pumps of oestrodose (3 months supply) and I've been used to oestrogel up til now, so oestrodse is definitely still around. Indeed the label indicates that the parallel import company is based in Wembly (west london and not too far from where I live...)
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aah interesting. I've been on Oestrogel (with a mirena) since May this year and within a few months it had worked wonders on the early LS/VA that a year of dermovate etc hadn't really helped. However just over a month ago I noticed that my new bottle had different packaging, but the ingredients were still the same (well on the label stuck over the original one) so I thought nothing of it and carried on as usual. Within about 2 weeks I start with a massive flare down below, my sleep is worse, my hips feel stiff and I am increasingly irritable. I recall saying to my partner that it feels like my oestrogen has taken a sudden dip.
Newest bottle my normal Oestrogel, within a week things have already started to improve.
I'm seeing all these posts, and yes understand that there shouldn't be any difference in the product but there clearly is something not so effective for many of us with the Oestrodose.
I will be opening all future packaging the in chemist to check what I've actually been given