Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Noheroicsplease on March 24, 2019, 07:14:35 PM
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Hi all
I switched to a high dose of Estradot after it became clear from bloods that I wasn't absorbing estrogen as well as I should. I find that mentally on this dose (and it was mainly this, as I was feeling very very dark) is good.
But my boobs are so huge and sore...they are like sandbags...gone up from 32DD to 30/32 G/GG! Plus a swollen armpit with lumpy, fatty bits. AND, legs are clearly suffering water retention as my socks leave terrible marks.
What to do? I've just had my bloods done again and am waiting results. If my estrogen levels are good, should I switch to a lower path? I've got a lot of 100mg patches left. Could I just change them less? I currently change them every 3 days
Thanks all
x
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Hi Noheroicsplease
Not sure what to suggest except to say that's exactly where I've put my weight (boobs and tops of legs), I'm currently a 34ff, and have a wedge of fat on the inside of my knees which really annoys me as I always had slim legs (still are from knees down). I'm strict with diet and exercising 3 times a week. I suspect it's the price we pay, I feel if I came off the weight would drop off but certainly don't want to come off hrt as it makes me feel like my old self - a tough one I know x
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Hi,
I am not on HRT (yet) but I have noticed that boobs get bigger at times and in general with some of it clearly water retention, and things can fluctuate for me with hormone fluctuations (but I really do not need anymore material or water there). It is tricky what to do as you said. Maybe if you are feeling ok with a lower dose that may be an option but you may want to check with GP as well. All the best, AG
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No heroics.
im by no means as knowledgeable about hrt as other ladies on here I've only been on it for 6 months but I would have thought leaving the patch on after the recommended time before you change it might not be the best idea. It will run out so you might not be getting anything from it and then you will be applying a 100 patch and I wouldve thought this could lead to fluctuation.
If you feel you want to decrease wouldn't it be better to switch to a lower dose.
Estradot comes also comes in lower doses.
Btw. I'm on estradot 75 about to increase to 100 after not absorbing eastrogel at all.
X
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I have evorel 100 but cut them down a bit as need more than 75 but 100 is too much as it makes my boobs swell too :)
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Noheroics, how long you have been on the higher dose?
I doubled my dose from 100 to 2 x 100 patches (poor absorption) and had terrible breast tenderness/swelling (I have lots of cysts anyway). Was a bit anxious when it didn't subside after 3 months but specialist wasn't phased. At 4 months things started to settle down and at 5 months I am pretty much pain-free - just a bit of twinging during the progesterone phase. It may be worth persevering, if you can.
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Hi all
I've been on Estradot since September last year. But only on 100mg for about 3 months.
I really am finding it unbearable the past couple of days. I'll wait to see what the results say, but i will prob cut down again.
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Hi ladies
Just wondering what your oestrogen levels were as you say you weren't absorbing, I've had my bloods done ( after a fight with GP) but I think they are super low however he says they are satisfactory and I haven't much knowledge in this area to challenge what he says.. my bloods were Oestrogen <100
Many thanks
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Hi ladies
Just wondering what your oestrogen levels were as you say you weren't absorbing, I've had my bloods done ( after a fight with GP) but I think they are super low however he says they are satisfactory and I haven't much knowledge in this area to challenge what he says.. my bloods were Oestrogen <100
Many thanks
I have replied on your other thread.
JP x
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Hetty. Mine was 129 pmol. Like you I have had my ovaries removed my doc says that is considered within the lower end of normal range post meno if you are NOT on HRT . Mine didnt move at all from what they were post op before HRT to what they were after months on 4 pumps eastrogel. and my symptoms have been horrendous. Doc said she wouldve expected the blood level to rise on 4 pumps.so she said I wasnyt absorbing
I've not long switched to estradot.
I dont know if you know what your e level was before HRT. It would help to gauge if the level has increased on it explain to your doc that you dont feel your symptoms are being controlled at all.
I realy feel for you. Surgical meno is so brutal.
I hope you get it sorted out.and best wishes to you x
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Hetty, on Estradot 100 my levels were 100 pmol/l and the specialist thought that was very low -barely higher than I would have without HRT and very very post menopausal (which I'm not). On 2x100 Estradot levels are now 257 which is considered just about high enough to ward off osteoporosis.
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Saffy. I think I'm going to be heading in the same direction. Post meno the docs baulk at giving highveastrogen but if you need higher doses to absorb a relatively low amount then I dont see the problem with that. Surely it's the amount that ends up in your blood stream that matters not the amount on the patch.i wish they would get that. I could feel my level was low at my blood test. In sure you did too.
I wonder why some of us dont absorb. SHBG levels has been discussed on the forum. But I think the jury's still out on that one.
I'm waiting to pick up my 100 estradots. When I first started the 75 four weeks ago I noticed an improvement in the first 2 weeks but it didnt last. I've been gradually slipping back to square one. after an awful night and morning I've stuck a 75 and a half on this aft. I'm on continous utrogestan so I'm not gonna faff about any more waiting for the medium doses to work. If I need more than 100 then I'm prepared to take that risk. It's just convincing the docs.!!
Some of us just dont absorb aaarrgggh!!
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I agree, it's ridiculous to think that one size fits all! I'm very lucky that I could afford a specialist who also wrote a quite pointed letter to my GP telling her that it's the levels that count and every woman is different :). TBF to the GP though she was also constrained by the 'the system says no' flashing up on her screen ;D.
Good luck with the 100 patches. I also always feel (slightly, no miracles here) better for the first couple of weeks only for it to all go downhill thereafter so finger's crossed!
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I wonder why that is. To get an effect for 2 weeks and then slip back. It's like we can absorb it first of all and then something stops it continuing. The level never climbs continuously.
I realy dont think the docs know the answer.
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Tc when I saw Prof Studd he told me that every woman needs a different level of oestrogen to feel good. Ideally, if you suffer with perimenopausal depression & anxiety, he likes your level to be around 800 pmol. But he has plenty of ladies on 1000+ pmol too.
It really can't be gauged just by looking at levels unless you're at the extreme ends of the spectrum. It's ALL about analysing symptoms and their severity. If you need a bucketful of oestrogen then that's what you need, end of.
I have a private theory that some women naturally produce very high levels of oestrogen, so once they hit menopause they require a high dose of HRT to feel normal.
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I have another private theory that if you initially respond well to an increase in oestrogen only to then slip back two weeks later - then you probably just need a consistent, high dose of oestrogen + as little progesterone that you can get away with.
Your body obviously welcomes the increased dose but it isn't enough to buffer you against the progesterone attack.
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You are probably right gypsy about some women having higher levels to begin with. I wasnt in meno so the sudden drop has hit hard.
I do think blood testsc have a place in showing absorption. What's the point in taking something if you are not getting any of it into your bloodstream. It's a waste of time.
Last time my levels were as though I wasnt on HRT at all. I m not chasing some pre menopausal high level of oestrogen. Just enough to feel normal and to ward off the more serious effects of low eastrogen.
And i have read there are minimum levels for offsetting certain side effects of meno like osteoporosis among others so . What's the point in taking it if you are not meeting those levels. You might as well be on nothing.
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Actually, yes I agree very much that levels need checking if you want to see if your heart/bones are being properly protected.
I meant more that levels shouldn't be used as a gauge of how you are feeling i.e. being told your levels are 'within normal limits' therefore you should *feel* normal.
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Oh yes. I agree totally. Symptoms are paramount. It's like a doctor saying well you shouldn't be feeling like that. Because I've got a piece of paper here that says you are fine. I hope you do not think I was directing frustration at you. wasnt directing my frustration at you. It was realy what I want to say to the doctor and I probably will next time lol.
I find your theory on progesteron masking the effects of eastrogen interesting. I've been taking it continuously. I didnt want to. but my gynae would not hear of a post meno bleed. She was quite angry. She said bleeding post meno is a red flag. How are we supposed to know if somethings wrong if you are inducing a bleed.
I realy think the fact that my gynae is an oncologist effects her views on HRT. I know it does as it's all you ever hear from her. Fair enough. Her priority is cancer. But I think I would be better at a meno clinic.
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Oh your gynaecologist needs a damned shake. Of course you can have regular bleeds post menopause. Loads of women on here take sequential HRT even after menopause because they simply can't tolerate daily progesterone. You can have a yearly private scan (Mothercare do them for £80) to check your uterus and ovaries are fine.
You really need to see a menopause specialist and get informed advice on this. I believe too many women give up on HRT because the balance between oestrogen & progesterone is wrong.
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Interestingly during pregnancy oestrogen levels are extremely high as are progesterone. OK we feel tired (due to do the prog) but also elated due to the oestrogen. Not that I'm suggesting anyone takes a high dose of prog, but without the high dose of oestrogen we would probably all have our head under a blanket and be in despair!!
Hurdity x
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That's interesting Hurdity. Prof Studd told me that women who suffer with reproductive depression often feel fantastic when pregnant because oestrogen levels are consistently high enough to balance the high progesterone.
I must admit that since starting my high dose of Oestrogel I do feel very, very slightly stoned much of the time. I feel quite serene and calm/centered - makes me realise what a slave to hormonal fluctuations I have been all my life (used to have a reputation for being quite firey and volatile).
I thought this serenity was due to the AD I also take, but when I have a dip (like now) that slightly stoned feeling disappears and the agitated anxiety comes back, despite the AD.
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I had that calm for first 2 weeks on estradot. It was bliss. But then wham!!
It makes sense that if I'm not absorbing eastrogen and on continous progesterone I might well be p dominant. I keep thinking I need more e (,and my levels are low and I'm getting symptoms of low e )but maybe I need less p. As well.
Is it that the p stops the e from being effective on all symptoms or does it just override e where the mood is concerned?
This gynae has tried to scare the life out of me. she is always going on about cancer. She said "I've seen women post meno with <10 E and that's fine it's normal. You dont need all this eastrogen post meno it's not normal and its dangerous. As I said she is an oncologist. It's not the right place for me to be getting my HRT. She is very anti.
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Hi Ladies
Another Gp appt today with someone different from the practice .. however he refused to let me try any Estrogen patches even though he agreed my Estrogen was absolutely rock bottom and very worrying.. he said an nhs referral for a gynae would be 6 plus months so my only option was to pay private so he is sending a letter off for that.. so still none the wiser x think I may just up my Estrogen myself to 4 pumps .. as 3 made no difference.. although with a result of <100 I wonder if I'm absorbing at all x :(
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Herty. Why is he so against patches?
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I was prescribed 2 x 100 mcg Estradot patches, three times weekly by the Menopause Clinic.
When I developed breast tenderness after six months, I asked if I could reduce the dose a little and I was told to snip a bit off the patch.
This worked really well :)
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Interesting salad. That's two ladies I know on 2x100.
I am not scared to go up to 200 if it helps me At the end of the day it's what ends up in your bloodstream that's important. I get the feeling I'm going to need that amount to raise to even 300pmol. Which isnt excessive by any means.
I wonder if only starting after ovary removal makes getting the levels up more difficult than for someone who has been on HRT through peri and into post.
How often do you change your patches salad if its 3 times week. That sounds like a stupid question. I mean how many days leave them on for.
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Interesting salad. That's two ladies I know on 2x100.
I am not scared to go up to 200 if it helps me At the end of the day it's what ends up in your bloodstream that's important. I get the feeling I'm going to need that amount to raise to even 300pmol. Which isnt excessive by any means.
I wonder if only starting after ovary removal makes getting the levels up more difficult than for someone who has been on HRT through peri and into post.
How often do you change your patches salad if its 3 times week. That sounds like a stupid question. I mean how many days leave them on for.
Morning - I was told to focus on the symptom control :)
The Clinic said to change the patches Monday/Wednesday/Friday. It was to ensure the Oestrogen level stayed 'stable' plus I could feel the effects wear off before changing to 3 x a week.
*Touching wood* Now my symptoms have been stable for over a year - in the last 6 months I have gradually reduced the size of one patch to a third (?33.3 mcg) and last month swapped one of the 100 mcg patches to a 25 mcg patch so my current dose is 125 mcg - still changing 3 x a week though.
Good luck.