Menopause Matters Forum

Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Tc on December 30, 2018, 12:55:22 PM

Title: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Tc on December 30, 2018, 12:55:22 PM

Hi ladies.
I was worried about posting this as I don't want to worry or scare anyone else on the same hrt or anyone thinking bout taking it. I also put it in the subject in the hope of letting ppl know what I'm going to say in case it's triggering.
I haven't told anyone til now just how bad it has been for me on phase 2 of the femseven sequi
Each time i had worsened anxiety and terrible depression worse than I have ever had in my life but the most frightening thing was intrusive thoughts of hurting myself which I've never had in my life
I realy dont know how I got through it the last time.
Gynae has changed me over to gel and U pill as my E was low but I can't get scrip til after new year and
I was due to change phase 1 to phase 2 on Friday and I was so scared of doing it that I changed to another phase 1 instead.
This means a 3rd week on E only and no prog since 3 weeks ago
I am usually very strict with taking meds as prescribed but I just don't want to risk it.
I am telling myself that an extra week or so with no prog won't make that much difference but don't know for sure

I have had no bleed since starting sequi 3 months ago

I don't have these thoughts today or any day during the last 2 and bit weeks on phase 1 so I don't want to cause alarm but I realy would be grateful for any input advice especially bout the extra week of E and no P. As doc talked about unopposed E being potentially dangerous.
Thank you and best wishes to you all .

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Roseneath on December 30, 2018, 01:35:55 PM

Hi Tc. I had a terrible experience with Elleste Duet. I am bad with anxiety but this was a different league and strength. Nightmares/dark thoughts etc. I phoned my GP for advice and she said to come off it straight away as some people get bad reactions to some forms of HRT. Maybe that is why people opt for Bio identical s. I never had by hormones tested before going on HRT as the NHS don't tend to do that and another GP suggested it is high oestrogen swings in Peri that causes my anxiety so adding more into the mix may have made things worse. Who knows. I guess if depends on why you started taking it in the first place. I have never had a problem with bleeding/sweats it was just for mood and insomnia. I would say ask for a GP phone back first thing rather than suffer or try and guess.

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: CLKD on December 30, 2018, 01:40:47 PM

A few weeks won't hurt, during peri/menopause the body is all over the place anyway. HORMONES >:(.

How is your over-all diet? In the 1980s Dr Katheen Dalton advised us to eat every 3 hours to keep blood sugar levels even. Maybe have a look at the National Association for Premenstrual Syndrome website. [NAPS] They literally saved my Life. I had to remember it took a while to get into the habit of every 3 hours, 24/7 - I had a pup then and she soon learned that there were biscuits by the bed at 3.30 a.m. when we came back to bed after she had been out to pee ;).

Ginger biscuits
Porride
Bananas
Dried fruits and nuts
RichT biscuits - my safe foods
Plus boiled rice either alone or with chicken curry
Hot Bovril in a mug to sip
Toast ......... start little and often to at least keep your gut happy so that the awful 'hungry' lurch is less likely to happen.

Anxiety can be triggered when the body is hungry, add hormonal upheaval and one can feel really ill.

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Tc on December 30, 2018, 04:05:20 PM

Thank you ladies. CLKD I am in surgical meno. Didn't realy have any probs before surgery just few flushes periods were regular
I will try to speak to doc tommorow and thanks for the dietary advice.
Once I start the new prog pill if I get the same reaction I will probably have to stop hrt which I don't want to do as I'm 53 and could use a few more years eadtrogen especially as there is heart disease in my family
I hope I don't have to give up hrt but feeling like that on the prog is probably more dangerous to my well being than anything else
I am happy to try to ride out the other side effects I'm getting. Headache nausea and tummy pain but I cannot risk feeling suicidal.
Thanks for your help
Best wishes to allx

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Hurdity on December 30, 2018, 05:22:39 PM

Quote from: CLKD on December 30, 2018, 01:40:47 PM

menstrual yndrome website.  They literally saved my Life.  I had to remember it took a while to get into the habit of every 3 hours, 24/7 - I had a pup then and she soon learned that there were biscuits by the bed at 3.30 a.m. when we came back to bed after she had been out to pee  ;).

Ginger biscuits
Porride
Bananas
Dried fruits and nuts
RichT biscuits - my safe foods
Plus boiled rice either alone or with chicken curry
Hot Bovril in a mug to sip
Toast .........  start little and often to at least keep your gut happy so that the awful 'hungry' lurch is less likely to happen.

Anxiety can be triggered when the body is hungry, add hormonal upheaval and one can feel really ill.

:-\

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Hurdity on December 30, 2018, 05:26:47 PM

Quote from: Tc on December 30, 2018, 04:05:20 PM

Thank you ladies. CLKD I am in surgical meno. Didn't realy have any probs before surgery just few flushes periods were regular
I will try to speak to doc tommorow and thanks for the dietary advice.
Once I start the new prog pill if I get the same reaction I will probably have to stop hrt which I don't want to do as I'm 53 and could use a few more years eadtrogen especially as there is heart disease in my family
I hope I don't have to give up hrt but feeling like that on the prog is probably more dangerous to my well being than anything else
I am happy to try to ride out the other side effects I'm getting. Headache nausea and tummy pain but I cannot risk feeling suicidal.
Thanks for your help
Best wishes to allx

Am I right in thinking you still have a uterus hence the need for prog? If so I would definitely try to look for an alternative. In addition maybe you need a much higher dose if you are in surgical meno and also maybe some testosterone too if you have no ovaries?

I agree with Stellajane too - a short time on oestrogen only will not do any harm as long as you get onto prog fairly soon.

Also when you start the utrogestan - I would take it vaginally to minimise side effects - if you can?

Look after yourself :bighug:

Hurdity x

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: CLKD on December 30, 2018, 05:35:37 PM

Who has put a line through my suggestions >:( and why?

Is that better? I removed [ * ] ......... :-\

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Tc on December 30, 2018, 05:40:49 PM

Thanks hurdity. Yep still got uterus. No ovaries.levels on the patch was 129 E
0.7 P
1.1 T
Gynae doc said that is more like level without hrt!!
It's possible I'm not absorbing much at all I guess.
She wants to get the E up b4 adding T.
Thanks for the tip bout the U. Do you think taking it vaginally will effect the estriol cream. I've only been using it for 5 days and already feeling some bladder benefit
Best wishes tox

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Tc on December 30, 2018, 05:41:59 PM

Wondered why the lines through?

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: AgathaC on December 30, 2018, 06:56:02 PM

Tc - I'm glad that the other ladies are able to comment on the hormonal issues behind the anxiety and dark thoughts and the best management of your HRT. I'm not qualified on that front.
But I have had dark thoughts during my perimenopause when my anxiety is sky high and I feel rock bottom (actually those two extremes describe the fluctuations well!!).
I used to get in my car and drive around like a maniac almost wishing I would harm myself - I'm ashamed to write that down.
Anyway, I've always, always, always regretted it afterwards and wished I had just crawled into bed and wallowed and kept safe.
Anyway, just to answer your question that I do share dark thoughts and have considered harming myself.
I think that you have suffered so much loss (your wife and your op which you've talked about regretting) that I'm not surprised that you can feel like this. I applaud you for just being!!
With respect to the regret (reference your other recent posts), you have no choice but to stop regretting the op and to move on. It's flipping hard but you need your energy to move forward.
Well done you on getting through Christmas. I'm sure that you miss her every moment xxx

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: racjen on December 30, 2018, 07:26:54 PM

The consultant I saw in Poole a couple of months ago advised me to come off utrogestan altogether for 3 months, whilst simultaneously increasing my estrogen to a very high dose - Evorel 200. He said that the cancer risk is over years, not months, and there would be no problem leaving out progesterone for that long (but that I might get some breakthrough bleeding, which I wasn't to worry about). Haven't had so far, but then I don't feel any better either....but I really don't think you need to worry at this stage.

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Tc on December 30, 2018, 08:05:44 PM

Thank you for your kind words agatac .
Racjen. I hope you soon start to feel better on your new regime.
Xxx

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: CLKD on December 30, 2018, 10:08:01 PM

How R U feeling this evening? Remember there is Samatritans [sp] in the night and MIND have a good support network, do find out your local Branch to see what is available to you. I didn't need to use them but they were really helpful when I was in crisis.

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Tc on December 30, 2018, 10:36:54 PM

Thank you CLKD. I am ok this evening. I have been better on the E part of the sequi. I realised a pattern was emerging with phase 2.
Thanks for the info. I did actually contact the Samaritans a few weeks ago when I was realy bad. And I contacted my local mh brief intervention team.i was desperate. Hence my fear of going through that again.
Anyway they did help me. . I saw one of their doctors and came away with an appointment with psychiatrist ( next week ), put on the waiting list for therapy and a crisis number I can call.
I didnt say on here at the time just how bad it was but I'm glad I have now as I haven't told any family or friends.its hard when you don't want to worry people
Thank you so much for asking how I am . How are you?
Best wishesx

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: racjen on December 30, 2018, 11:11:50 PM

Dark thoughts, thoughts of suicide - yes, absolutely. Never had them before peri-menopause; in the last year I've had the Crisis Team out 3 or 4 times, been into my surgery with 4 packets of paracetemol asking them to stop me from overdosing, have phoned the Samaritans a number of times. You're not alone and you're not going mad - sadly for a small minority of us hormones can have this extreme an effect. Hang on in there - I haven't found an answer yet but I'm right in there with you xxxx

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: snappy on December 31, 2018, 08:44:01 AM

This forum is literally a life saver for many sufferers.
Most of us with these symptoms never come across anyone within their friendship groups going through this hell.
Hang on in there, we're all in this together x

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: racjen on December 31, 2018, 12:27:06 PM

Yes, that's a big part of the problem isn't it? I know there are loads of us out there suffering like this, because I meet you all on here (thank god), but I never meet anyone in my daily life who has any idea what it's like. Many have had bits and pieces, the usual hot flushes, aches and pains etc., maybe even low level anxiety and depression, but not the hell many of us describe. I end up feeling they all think I'm just exaggerating...

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: CLKD on December 31, 2018, 05:26:04 PM

Any improvement Girls?

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: racjen on January 01, 2019, 12:23:07 AM

Well, given that anxiety is my biggest and most debilitating symptom I'm giving pregabalin another go, but experimenting with taking it every three or four days rather than every day. Unfortunately that means that I'm unlikely to get constant relief from anxiety and insomnia as you would taking it daily, but since for me the build up in my brain from taking it daily leads to suicidal depression, I figured that maybe I could avoid that by taking it intermittently and still get one good day in 3 or 4. Have been doing this over Xmas so that I could plan some good days and so far it's been OK - taking 150mg gives me a decent night's sleep and at least dulls the morning anxiety. But I've yet to discover whether this will last - I may still reach a point where it's too much and I go into suicidal mode again. Hope not. Happy New Year x

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Rosebush on January 01, 2019, 04:22:25 PM

:hug: xx

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Tc on January 02, 2019, 06:39:32 PM

Clkd. Thanks for asking. I have posted a new topic under discussion titled "aargggh". Bout my hrt debacle today.
Just would like to say I realy realy wish all you ladies better health for the new year with all my heart❤

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: CLKD on January 02, 2019, 08:16:02 PM

Keep some of that heart ;) but I appreciate the sentiment. Read your other thread ::)

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Ladybt28 on January 03, 2019, 01:35:40 AM

Hi Tc - suicidal thoughts - yep have them all the time, but I was at worst for a long time in the summer and if it wasn't for the ladies on here...well. I was pretty bad in March when I got taken into hospital with sepsis and wasn't a bit bothered that they thought I was gonna die..to be honest I was a bit relieved ??? isn't that a terrible thing to admit to... but my thought process was "oh good, now I can take the cowards way out, nature is going to do if for me"! but no one talks about this stuff. I don't have any friends racjen so it's never a topic of conversation and only my eldest son and husband know really how bad I can be...and the ladies on here.

In the summer I was on continuous progesterone and the wrong progesterone for me but my medical records would show it is obvious that I have an underlying problem with depression and have had for 40 years, although no AD's, counselling or cbt have made it any better so I often ponder how much is hormonal? Trouble started around 13 when periods started?? AD's just made me numb, they certainly didnt help ever.

Tc - your body has had a shock regarding your op, it is not small beer by anyone's imagination. It sounds badly mismanaged but that is not your fault but it has put your body into a situation where it can't cope with others incompetence - none of us can when we can barely hold it together for more than 5 minutes!.... but we have to remember.. we are on this forum, we are all together in whatever trials we face moment to moment... there is always someone along to "talk to us" on here so we can gain a bit of comfort and perspective when we have thrown ours out the window!

I have to remember all I have written above when I disappear into the blackness...which is at some point every week... sometimes every day - so to answer the question yes there are plenty of us on here who have those thoughts and whose meno journey makes us desperate but somehow I am now hanging onto the fact that it is my body making my head bad and not that my head is the problem.... that has given me a tiny weeny bit of hope.

Love to you all out there, racjen, Tc, AgethaC and anyone else who is afraid to tell what really goes on in their head...you are not alone.

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: Tc on January 03, 2019, 01:37:20 PM

Well saidx

Title: Re: Phase 2 he'll. Thoughts of self harm
Post by: CLKD on January 03, 2019, 02:00:38 PM

Half a day at a time. I never say 'yes' to anything in the evening because I have learnt that by morning, I will have so much anxiety :'(. I have learned to pace myself but it hasn't been easy!

Group :hug: