Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Dancinggirl on November 26, 2018, 10:16:07 PM
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Just watched Mariella's programme on the Menopause. I thought it was a well balanced view (at last) with some very good common sense reporting. So great that she showed her appointments with the gynaecologist and the treatment she was getting. Her gynaecologist outlining all the benefits HRT can bring, particularly for long term health, was really good.
Exciting that there might be alternative drug treatments for flushes in the future.
A shame she didn't mention this site though.
I wonder how many women will making appointments with their GPs tomorrow????
DG xxx
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I thought it was very good as well + particularly interesting re the regenerating ovaries for those who have been ill x
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Stellajane - I did think it highlighted that only the privileged with enough money can get the help they need.
The NHS isn't giving any of us what we need a lot of the time and not just in relation to the menopause. The emphasis seems to be mainly about shoving us on ADs or painkillers to keep us quiet and out of the surgery.
Watch out GPs - some newly empowered women are gonna be knocking on your door.
At least this program dispelled a lot of myths about HRT. DG x
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I agree, this site is informative and has been a place of comfort to me, I am just so pleased I found this site, the ladies are so helpful and can help us to have peace of mind. :)
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I think also what money can buy, mind you the NHS is a wonderful thing, but way under budgeted and stretched to full capacity ???
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I caught the end of it so will watch the rest tomorrow. It looked pretty hopeful. I need some ammunition to stay on HRT with my GPs. There is a male GP who works there one day a week who is promising - seems to know the basics which is a start! (Huge improvement on the one who doesn't deal with womens stuff which is a bit hopeless in a 2 man band)
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I have posted elsewhere on the other thread about the program, (I can't remember what it is called - the one announcing the program would be on) I would say somewhat comprehensively :-\ :-X ::) (a rant is a better description) needless to say I had steam coming out of my ears for most of the program as I thought it utterly useless and seemed to continue to peddle the myth that you can "think your way out of your symptoms" - yuk more ammo for stupid GP's to say "think positive dear"! and that exercise is the way to go! amongst my other "extensive" :rant: observations
You may just get the impression if you read it there were a few reasons (items 1-10 Hah!) that I didnt think much of it (understatement) :lol: :steamed:
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Myself and the ladies in my vaginal atrophy group & social media that I have seen this am did not think it was a good balanced view on menopause.
Very much menopause for the wealthy including diet. Jenny Murray saying 10 friends all got Breast cancer from HRT that will stick, what about her very long previous unhealthy life style & now? Very much a contributing factor. Having bloods as a standard NICE & the NHS won't offer this.
Vaginal atrophy the one that keeps on giving, & very often bites you on the butt early mid 60s when you think your done, no discussion other than the Gynae said twice in hushed tones vaginal dryness.
Diet & exercise are key for everyone wether Male or Female, CBT great. but personally myself and my husband where very disappointed.
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I thought it was great to have a programme about the meno on mainstream channel at 9pm and that it did put the risk of BC in context when on HRT. Although it did stick with the Women Health Initiative findings (which have many flaws) and ignored the tons of observational studies and other RCTs that show no or even reduced risk for BC as well as the finding that being on HRT reduces mortality from BC. I also loved at the end how her doctor said she would be on HRT for life!
I also agree that it wasn't clear that she was seeing a meno specialist and that having blood tests and bone density scans is not the norm for a visit to the GP. Also the excersise and bone density explanation did not really explain what the gain from running was nor that HRT would kick all the gains out of the room in comparison!
I do think CBT can be useful in reframing negative thoughts around meno and evidence does show a reduction in how troublesome hot flushes are, but yes I felt the programme did not make it clear enough you can't think away meno.
IT also barely touched on atrophy and this is a real shame as that is the one area women really do not talk about at all.
Overall I feel it will do more good than harm, but it was not assertive enough in countering the negative and troublesome narrative around taking HRT to replace hormones and have no idea what the male meno stuff was about or why it was even in the programme.
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Sorry ladies but wrong heading in my opinion there was nothing bravadic about this programme it did absolutely nothing to fight our corner.
If she had come in at the ground level via the nhs route and not Harley street then she would have, right from the off, given a truer perspective of what we the ordinary person on the street experience on a daily basis.the complete lack of expertise and knowledge from our inadequately trained gps and the lack of support we truly experience from the nhs system.
Yes they touched on bc but they omitted to say that the new guidelines have advised there's no increased risk of bc for oestrogen only users so shouldn't have made such a negative sweeping statement about increased risks.vaginal atrophy was mentioned in a whispered hush twice and not highlighted as it should have been as it's a major issue for the majority of women and again where the hell do they get these women participants from, the thought of going anywhere near a bike saddle would send my flaps into a tizzy and that applies to an awful lot of us from every walk in life.
I felt the only real insight we got into one area was the lady who's done the trials 're the hot flushes then was subsequently dumped and left right back where she started.very sad outcome for her efforts in being a guinea pig.
Mariella id say if you wanted to do a real update with real people search out forums like these and invite our kind of sufferers to take part, it would give you a clearer idea of the realities of living in the meno world and not the Harley street version.start at the base level like we have to do before desperation sends us to places like private clinics because we are so let down by public health.
I was very disappointed in it's content and felt that on the whole it only related to the chosen few who can afford to frequent sushi bars and Harley street practices not the ordinary mum's,grannies ,shop and office workers or unemployed or low income and there's a lot of us around.i also think it did a huge diservice to all the GPS and consultants who worked so hard on turning around the previous damming inaccurate report on hrt and created the new NICE guidelines they didn't even merit a mention that was shocking.my title would have been " bollocks mariella" not bravado mariella sorry.DD😘
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Sorry ladies but wrong heading in my opinion there was nothing bravadic about this programme it did absolutely nothing to fight our corner.
my title would have been " bollocks mariella" not bravado mariella sorry.DD😘
I couldn't agree more. Totally disappointed with the content of this programme.
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Hello ladies,
Hear, hear DD.
Conolly X
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Well! Perhaps we should be lobbying the BBC to do a Panarama investigative programme into the lack of appropriate treatment for the menopause by the NHS. What does it cost the country in terms of lost revenue because women have to cut back or even give up work because of the menopause? Why isn't it standard that women get a DEXA scan at 45 or 50 to see if they need HRT? What does osteoporosis cost the NHS and society?
Perhaps women should be recording the appointments they have with their GP(and even gynaecologist) so they have evidence of poor treatment?
Mariella can clearly afford to get the appropriate testing and help so it would have been good if she had highlighted that what she is getting isn't available on the NHS.
It was the first program I have seen to actually attempt to address the taboo and set out women's options - get people actually discussing the menopause. It was disappointing that urogenital atrophy wasn't dealt with more but that could be a whole programme on it's own. I was not surprised there was a lack of NHS doctors taking part - they do not want to address the problems of the menopause - the NHS is still dominated by men who believe women should either put up or shut up or take ADs.
There was some very good information in that programme - it wasn't perfect by any means, no programme will be - but it was a start and maybe somebody will pick up on this and carry things forward. Mariella's gynaecologist summed up things extremely well at the end and I hope many women will come away with those expert comments ringing in their ears - “she'll be taking HRT for the rest of her lifeâ€. DG x
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... and there was a close-up of Oestrogel and Utrogestan at the very end. Maybe all we need is just a hand from Besins Healthcare.
Conolly X
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I agree 100% droopydrawers (and did nose snort at your comment about cycling! ;D) It was a start but could have been so much better and didn't address the woeful lack of knowledge support and treatment by GPS, and so many other issues that this forum helps with...should definitely have touched on this - Having said all that, the fact that the patriarchy at the bbc ran this programme in itself is a surprise, and hopefully it will pave the way for more discussion and awareness.
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Hot flushes I had a bit of steam coming out of my ears - my verdict on it - beyond useless and probably did more harm than good!!
So... (1) Jennie Murry fed the idea that HRT causes breast cancer and gave a more convincing argument than the women who provided the proper research and then they never covered the bit about some women having a predisposition to getting breast cancer anyway and then taking HRT on top made the possibility of them developing it higher. Stellajane is bang on with her comment - I mean 9 women she knew all got breast cancer.....?
(2) the group of women who were given cognitive behavioural therapy to help them "overcome" their symptoms aided and abetted those GP's who say - "you don't need HRT - just think positive". They will all be saying it more no doubt since its been "proven" on the telly.
(3) I understand what they were trying to say about bone density and that it is help by exercise but it never addressed the reason why a lot of women don't exercise (because they can barely get out of bed and get dressed before collapsing in a fatigued heap!) but it also fed those lazy GP's on "oh get out more dear...run your bad menopause off!!)
(4) it mentioned dry vaginas in passing but no indication of what that is like
(5) it never mentioned the devastating effect that someones bad menopause can have on family and partners
(6) it never mentioned loss of libido or marriage once
(7) they mentioned flushes lots and mentioned depression, lack of energy, brain fog, anxiety in passing!
( They talked about japanese women not suffering so much due to soy in their diet but didn't suggest that in the UK "turning japanese" was never going to work - because japanese society views their women over 45-50 completely differently.
(9) they gave a very false impression of how the NHS (doesnt deal) with menopause and instilled false hope that you could get your blood tested to work out what to do
(10) One of the women who was menopausal in the group given CBT had to speak at conferences and obviously had quite a high powered job - but there was never any mention of how debilitating the symptoms of bad menopause and how the work place needs to adjust to women working longer and longer in our society than they ever did before.
Oh and the icing on the cake for me was spending 10 minutes talking about how research has found you can reverse the menopause by taking an ovary out before they pack up altogether having it frozen and then re-implanted to the one left where it grafts and starts to generate hormones, and can even generate eggs - this was primarily for young women who had had cancer treatment - which in itself is absolutely brilliant dont get me wrong - but was completely out of context as there was no further information given on the number of women who suffer from all sorts of other surgical menopause and how it actually affects them.
Oh and your women the consultant should have been more forceful about women taking it for life not this "oh you need to comee of it in 5 years2 cr*p
And another 10 dispelling the male menopause
Urgh...shall I gone on....huh.."Telling the Truth about Menopause" - well that's the wrong title for the program. "Continuing the Myths around Menopause" more like!
Useless, flaming useless... Nothing of practical use at all Kathleen....oh and one whisper I believe about this website someone said and I missed it - I'm with droopy draws
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I Guess the main thing for me is that it has opened up a debate.
Indeed not perfect by any means and there was a lot not covered. It is something that the NHS need to invest in as it effects half the population and we are living longer , so we will be in menopause for 20 years minimum. It is only now and continuing into the future that the long term effects will become more evident, both health and economically.
We are all communicating more about the subject and realising that the issues suffered need addressing. Not that long ago women were put into mental assylums due to menopause.
Progress is slow, but there is progress.
Pepperminty x
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I just thought it was such a massively wasted opportunity and that it continued to reinforce male doctors already stupid notions! >:(
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Brava, Ladybt28! :clapping:
Conolly X
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Right behind you DD,Harley Street!?!?her gynaecologist looked like she fell out of a glamour magazine,bloody hell has she been to an nhs waiting room recently with the under funded over worked staff?
For me,the programme didn't touch on anything new,don't get me wrong,good to highlight the menopause and what women go through but the majority of us have a 10 minute dr appointment (if lucky) & come away feeling let down.
Male menopause? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha If there was such a thing we'd have a cure by now
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Hello ladies.
I enjoyed the programme and thought it was much more informative than Kirsty Wark's effort about a year ago. To be fair to Mariella she is just a journalist trying to cover all the bases of her subject and she was allowing us to follow her personal journey which is why we saw her meno specialist ( who had an incredible hair do btw).
I think the most interesting thing was the discovery of another hormone that controls hot flushes. It made me wonder if there are any other hormonal discoveries to be made and is our fixation on Oestrogen and Progesterone doing us a disservice.
All in all the programme was a worthy effort and hopefully there will be more interest in the subject as a result of it.
Take care ladies.
K.
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I had a thought - you see when they injected the women who wasn't menopausal in her 30's with the protein/chemical that is supposed to cause the flushes and it brought them on - what about injecting some male doctors with it and see what they have to say!
I have to say that my posts are a little spikey today!! >:( :-X :lol:
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Hello spikey,
I like your sense of humour :rofl:
Conolly X
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It has opened up debate. But she didn't explain why she was seeing a Private Specialist. Whether she had problems with her GP or whether she opted to go private as it was quicker and a more direct approach?
Jennie Murray was not the best person to discuss about HRT though I suppose, because she has been open about taking it a well as being diagnosed with breast disease, Mierella was able to approach her.
Interesting that they were taken to a Japanese sushi bar ......... some plant based foods are supposed to increase oestrogens however: I was told after breast treatment to avoid anything that increased oestrogen so how does that equate? The last thing my Oncologist told me was "No HRT for you!" Then prescribed Tamoxifen which almost killed me.
It was also not pointed out that Japanese women *used* to have less menopasusal symptoms but in more recent years, particularly since fast food arrived on the islands, that women are in fact, suffering more ........... of course I can't remember where I read that but it was in the last 5 years.
As for cycling >:( if they saw the state of our roads they wouldn't suggest it as an option. It was a bit behind the times, its' been known for years that brisk walking, 10 mins. daily, helps stave off osteoporosis. Add to that many Educational Authorities selling off playgrounds for housing, with the agreement of the Governments of the Day, means that children have less exercise. Here, because the children would have to walk the mile to the playing fields from school, when the bus costs went up 'too high', they no longer get taken to do 'games' :-\. Add to that many more children not eating dairy and in general, not going out to play ....... they are laying down problems Whole Sale!
This programme needs a follow up. Maybe send her information about MM .......... ? as well as letting her know how difficult it is for patients to get appropriate consideration.
Her Gynae may have whispered that she will remain on HRT for Life doesn't equate to what she would tell her clients ;-). Had she said there is no need to stop after 5 years, it would have had more impact for me. Why is it such a difficulty in deciding, if it were diabetic treatment no one would consider stopping it!
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I have to say that my posts are a little spikey today!! >:( :-X :lol:
Just a tad!
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Men CANNOT have a menopause. End of. The Consultant in Harley Street who deals with mens' problems seemed to be using testosterone? Self prescribed, which would be illegal - surmising here :-\.
Interesting that we didn't get to know his speciality but the next 'specialist' interviewed told the viewer that he doesn't believe men have that much of a problem. It is known that they can father children until on their death bed. So hopefully GPs who have men with erectile problems in their Surgery are more sympathetic!
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Well I've just watched the programme and I thought it was a pretty decent stab at a complex subject that most people don't understand, and that will also go for the cutting room crew who will have taken hundreds of hours of footage and dialogue and distilled it down to an hour long programme. So much will have been left out, reduced down and cut oddly simply to make it fit the programme and to keep the viewing public interested. You have to remember half the women around us are in denial/oblivious and wouldn't watch this programme as they would feel it was admitting to some failure or something and the other half of the population are men so it's quite hard to put a programme together that will appeal to the biggest number of viewers.
No way were they every going to use NHS services for this. Almost no medical programme ever does. It's too crowded, grubby and depressing and likely never to find the same doctor twice to complete the filing with!
It was a good basic on what to expect in general. Some ideas how to counter it and some thoughts about alternatives. The HRT part was using body identical products although that wasn't included in the film we saw, and the advice was roughly right. Personally I can't stand Jennie Murry and her bashing of HRT all the time. She was really unlucky. She got a terrible disease. There is no reason to think she got it because she was on HRT. She could likely have got it anyway. I think she's doing a lot of damage to menopause symptom relief at the moment and we need a better counter advocate to work against her.
So the programme gets a thumbs up from me. Better to have it seen and talked about than not at all.
I did feel sorry for the poor dumpy woman in the non-exercise group who said she was just too worn out to exercise. I'd put money on her being undiagnosed hypothyroid. Her body shape screams it. So she has a double whammy and is now feeling miserable and guilty knowing that she feels awful, has lost her love of life and her body has let her down both internally with advancing bone loss and externally with the fat suit it's given her to labour under. She needs help, but unless she wakes up and fights for it she won't get it.
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I had a thought - you see when they injected the women who wasn't menopausal in her 30's with the protein/chemical that is supposed to cause the flushes and it brought them on - what about injecting some male doctors with it and see what they have to say!
I have to say that my posts are a little spikey today!! >:( :-X :lol:
😂🤣😅 brilliant ladybt
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SueLW - only a tad?! - argh it really got up my nose! 3 days into progesterone cycle, that's my excuse although my childen describe variously as "opinionated" or "downright touchy" (most of the time :))
- On a completely different note - how do you do the "quote" box thing where you pick up sentences from others posts?
I thought her gynae was a brilliant advert for HRT for life - and Jaypo, she most certainly hasn't been in an NHS meno clinic in years and whoever said it, yes she has amazing hair! but I'm not sure you would get any better advice from her because her office looked like something out of Beverly Hills - in fact it would put me off a bit! And yes CLKD - if she had come out quite clearly saying that for most women there is no problems in taking it and if she had said something about the cancer risk I agree it would have upped her credibility massively, I mean the program hardly covered a representative amount of women who came out and said they were taking HRT and how it had helped them. I thought they focused too much on strategies to avoid HRT. Your right the cycling is more likely to kill you than HRT.
Funny how you mentioned Japan and the introduction of fast food. The women at the very beginning said that obesity had a greater effect on breast cancer by 23% than HRT. I'm pretty sure that there is a lot to be said for plastics and pollution in the modern world affecting hormones and the rise in hormone problems generally even outside menopause such as infertility and the rise in people who are "confused" and the fact that fish (of all things) are changing sex mid life! Scientists don't call them "gender bending" chemicals for nothing and they must affect us women as well which might be why menopause symptoms in this day and age might be more dramatic than in years gone by.
Hey StellaJane - its not evil at all - just think of it as "in the interests of equality"!! They invented pregnancy bumps to strap onto men didn't they...... inclusive and perspective - those are the words I'm looking for!
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SueLW - only a tad?! - argh it really got up my nose! 3 days into progesterone cycle, that's my excuse although my childen describe variously as "opinionated" or "downright touchy" (most of the time :))
- On a completely different note - how do you do the "quote" box thing where you pick up sentences from others posts?
If you want to quote a bit of someone else's post, use the "Quote" button up on the right at the top of their post. Can you see it? It's not in the command bar at the bottom where you do a normal post or reply from.
When you hit the quote button you arrive on the reply with the whole of the message you want to quote from at the top of the reply box. The first line of the quoted message has a line of code at the front of it encased in square brackets. That's the start of the quote. At the bottom of the quote is another line of code encased in square brackets /quote, which means end of quote.
Provided you leave those two lines of code complete, you can edit/remove any part of the message to focus on what you wish to reply to.
Then move the cursor outside of the lower line of code into the blank space and you can type your reply. I hope that makes sense.
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It does, kind of ;D
I had breast cancer. I have been underweight until 2001. I was born light: 3lb 4 oz : my periods began when I was almost 12. Heavy. Clotting. Painful beyond words :'( B4 I went on The Pill. So I was never a 'candidate' for breast disease. So I don't correlate to any statistics ::)
JM wasn't the best person to interview. There is no way of finding out if the 9 who took HRT had breast disease due to taking it. We haven't been told their full medical histories so she will continue to peddle those 'facts' which may well put ladies off even considering HRT leaving them to suffer.
Nor where the risks of Cohash made much of. I understood that it should be used for no more than 12 months at a time.
So it's in the open. What next ;D - wave "Me and My Menopausal Vagina" at No 10 .......... would make a change from Brexit ;)
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Yeah c'mon Mrs May,tell us your thoughts 😊
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Perhaps whilst she doing her UK rounds, England today, Ireland this evening? one should approach her with 'what does the word menopause mean to you?' ;)
As an aside, I did write to an MP years ago (? 1970/80s ) about sanitary towels on the NHS but his wife wrote back that the NHS was already short of money so I should look round for cheap/discounted products >:(. He was the one that looked like a blood hound ......... oh, Clement Fraud can you see that I had a 'moment' there ???. So no sympthathy from her, don't think the letter actually reached Clement. Hopefully we might have moved on and maybe, in the New Year we should approach the Health Secretary - expect there will be an Election so we might get someone who actually knows about menopause? Whoops, bit of a meander.
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I had a flash back a few moments ago. In the mid-1970s I had 5 weeks of HRT - have no idea what it was and can't remember how it was delivered, I think by patches. It was to improve sex drive but as it wasn't working, I stopped taking it. Wonder if that was enough 'risk' for me to develop breast disease in the 1990s? We'll never know ......... I had been married 17 months when my sex drive disappeared. I knew it was hormonal because in the few days prior to a period, I would want it and want it now :-X. Then it would go after the bleed stopped.
Meandering a bit ..........
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Hello Ladybt28.
I am liking your style! I'd love some of the male medics I've encountered to be forced to have some hot flushes. One told me they were no big deal 'as it was just a bit of sweating ‘. How about arranging for them to be woken up several times every night as well.
Take care ladies.
K.
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I had a flash back a few moments ago. In the mid-1970s I had 5 weeks of HRT - have no idea what it was and can't remember how it was delivered, I think by patches. It was to improve sex drive but as it wasn't working, I stopped taking it. Wonder if that was enough 'risk' for me to develop breast disease in the 1990s? We'll never know ......... I had been married 17 months when my sex drive disappeared. I knew it was hormonal because in the few days prior to a period, I would want it and want it now :-X. Then it would go after the bleed stopped.
Think we would go mad if we dwelt on the maybes & what ifs,you've had your fair share of illness clkd,you're an inspiration to others 🙂
Meandering a bit ..........
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Tnx. It doesn't really cross my mind until these types of issues pop up. Can't alter my medical history so will stop meandering ;)
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I had a thought - you see when they injected the women who wasn't menopausal in her 30's with the protein/chemical that is supposed to cause the flushes and it brought them on - what about injecting some male doctors with it and see what they have to say!
I have to say that my posts are a little spikey today!! >:( :-X :lol:
I want a 'like' button for this :)
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Haha sorry, I got my quote mixed up,you do know it wasn't me that said you were meandering,for some reason my reply to you is in the middle of yours🤣 it's the menopause ok?its great you can blame it for everything 😆
You seem a nice lady clkd & you've helped me tremendously xx
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CLKD :lol: the BBC has received my email and many other ladies from my VA group.
My email has definitely made the word vagina come out of the closet 🤗 I have suggested I send them one and I'm more than happy to talk about My Menopausal Vagina. 👻
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:) ;D :o what send them a vagina?.. whos'?... when?... how? Sorry Maryjane... shouldn't be facitious...lol. I think a program about your book would be spectacular with Jenny Éclair as the presenter!
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:rofl:
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:rofl: we need to keep a sense of humour.
What we need is Sir Jimmy Young - way back on Radio2 he opened up discussions about various topics and was always balanced. "What's the recipe today, Jim?" as well as having Ben Fogle's Dad as the monthly Vet., a regular homeopathy slot - I can't imagine Jeremy Vine being a sympathetic ear as he NEVER listens but Sir Jim would have been the Man ;-).
Do you envisage your own Programme Maryjane, with a question and answer opportunity?
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Oh gosh no CLKD no one wants an unfamous face, but I will try and make a noise if I can.
But I'm simply not phased talking about the subject at all. 🤗
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It will take about 10 mins. 4 U to become famous ;) 'cos we'll be ringing in to welcome and encourage you 8)
Maybe send Mirella Frostrup a copy of your book as starters?
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Yes she will also receive an email with an offer of the book, don't know who decided how the programme went?