Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Peroxideblader on November 21, 2018, 11:19:07 PM
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Hello ....well my 8 year marriage could be over soon we've had a talk tonight and I'm not the person he met I know I'm not. I used to bite my tongue a lot of the time and yes we've had a really bad stressful 2 years with my ever declining health and work issues but these last 6 months I can't seem to bite my tongue it's like 8 years of pent up anger and resentment have all come out. I'm so low everyday and just can't seem to cheer up..I know I have this severe sleep deprivation which makes me down and ratty but I used to still jump out of bed and crack a smile on my face albeit usually fake..now I lie in bed under a massive black cloud very very anxious and depressed.
I know I'm negative and moody now and I nit pick at my fella where before I just took all the bad stuff and kept it inside...
I am ruining his life and he's miserable I'm miserable and I really think I'd be better on my own for good..then I can't hurt anyone or let my moods affect any one else...
the reason I posted is I'm sure this is hormone related as I've been peri for years but the highs and lows are now just lows..can anyone else understand this in a relationship just suddenly becoming this frank no bullshit snappy person from nowhere..I am just so scared this menopause crap will lose me my marriage because I will leave him so he can find someone fun loving happy smiley all the things I'm not...I am seeing a private endocrinologist in January regarding my underactive thyroid the nhs won't confirm and she deals with menopause too so I'm hoping to see if anything shows on tests...I know meno tests are very unreliable in peri...just hoping someone else has felt like this ( I've told my fella I think it's menopause with it being like pmt full time but he's not one for compassion and thinks I'm just using it as an excuse for turning into a nasty miserable unlovable bitch) HELP
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Hi Peroxideblader - always difficult - would suggest it is hormonal - you don't say if you are on any hrt and if not then get some and see how it goes - it cant be any worse than how you are feeling now. I do understand about the anger thing though. To cut a long story short I had undiagnosed hormonal issue throughout my life before I got to peri and I am on my second marriage!
First marriage lasted 13 years but for the last 6 of them I spent everyday permanently angry. I'd promise myself that the next day would be better and different - but the next day was always the same! - I just wanted to kill him (and a few others too sometimes) but mainly I was resentful, wound up, in-patient. I was just permanently seething! It's not that the first years of our marraige were all blissfull and hearts and flowers or that there was anything fundementally wrong with my fella - but anyone who knows him and meets him describes him as having a rather "blah" personality - didnt make decisions, no ambition, no hobbies, couldnt take control of any situation basically "nice" but his get up and go had got up and gone on all fronts!!
2nd husband is my soul mate, the bees knees and we "fit" together. Its not all rosey, there have been some mega tough times but we have been together 18 years. During that time I have been peri and have had problems with panic/anxiety/depression and some loss of libido but I have never experienced that seething anger every day.
I would suggest you get some hrt quick (try to get there before January) to see if it makes a difference before hiring a divorce lawyer because divorce is a serious business - you need to get well for you anyway regardless of hubby! It depends how your marraige has been over the 8 years and if you can spot a turning point in your relationship and themaybe put the pieces of the puzzle together to work out whether it is actually health related to you or whether it is something underlying between the two of you. First time round it was underlying between the two of us and would have failed I reckon looking back even if I had not had my health issues. My 2nd marraige is surviving them just fine so it couldnt be that.
One thing though I hope it isn't him who has used the phrase "nasty miserable unloveable bitch" that you use in your post as that doesnt bode well and if it is you who is saying that about youself - you most certainly are not - what you are is a peri menopausal women who needs some help with her peri issues. Sending much love!
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Sorry to hear that you are at a crux. If my husband even hinted at not being sympathetic he would be out the door and locks would be changed!
Whilst it isn't up to others to be totally responsible for a person's happiness, it can go a long way ! Did you raise the subject or did he?
Mine hates confrontation. Over the years I have offered him 'out' but he's still here ::) :-*. I have been a nasty piece of work at times :'( but he tells me he can't remember whereas I can, every time I've bitten his head off is part of the guilt that I carry.
Think about what attracted you to him initially and take it from there. Ask him : "If I dropped dead right now, how would you feel? I don't want to know but your gut reaction will mean how we move forwards".
Don't assume that because you feel angry etc. that he wants out. Men in particular aren't good at expressing their real feelings: Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Think also about what you would do if you were alone ........... OK you can punch a cushion and kick a door [I did many times :-X] but would it be good for your over-all health?
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Hi Peroxideblader,
Yes I can relate to what you are going through. Although we have never married I have been with my partner for 25 years. He is a lot older than me which was fine until the last few years. He is also a "blah" person (know what you mean Ladybt!) and I have to do everything to organise our lives and household. All fine until my hormones went beserk at the beginning of the year and suddenly I felt so angry and frustrated with him not being fun and having get up and go any more - not his fault I know but that was how I felt. He also doesn`t get the meno thing really. So I went on hrt and have calmed down a lot but something has switched in my brain that said I am not going to grow old by association, I`m going to do my thing and he can do his (mainly pottering around the house and garden), while I still support him I need to go out with my mates and dance on the table if I need to too. He`s ok with this. Sometimes relationships change in nature and if you can come to an understanding you can work through it. Good luck xx
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thank you for your replies...I spent all last night awake worrying he slept like a log of course..we've not spoken today yet so it'll be either sulks or shouting again tonight..I really don't like the me I've become it's like I've no filter now and I won't take shit..it's a good thing on one way because our relationship has not been too good for a few years..he is very dominant and opinionated and doesn't take or ask my opinion on anything it's his way or nothing..I accept that's who he is but this last year I've felt ignored unimportant and disrespected..I always have but since my anxiety and panic attacks have escalated this year I've lashed out more and told him some home truths..he hasn't liked the new outspoken me I can't blame him as I have always been calm and let him get away with everuthing. this new me is not nice and he wants the old one back.
clkd it was his words I quoted but I am a miserable boring cow he doesn't have fun with me I'm always negative and barely any sex so there's not much to stay for.
as for hrt I tried it about 8 month ago femoston but in the first 10 days on the oestrogen part I literally went suicidal so stopped it and I was fine again I was gutted as I'd hoped it would help. I did get oestrogel and utrogestan but I darent try it because of how based I'm feeling now I don't think I could take more ill effects on hrt..I intend on new year new start on hrt but if we end up splitting up I won't take it. I'm fine being miserable on my own and all the other shit symptoms as I've no one to take it out on.
I have tried telling him and showing him articles about depression anxiety mood swings in perimenopause but he won't read them..he quotes all the women he's known go through menopause and never been horrid like me...well lucky them!!! I'd hardly use this as an excuse if it wasn't what I thought was the cause...aarghhhhh..3 hours til horrible atmosphere again 😣😣
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Peroxidebladder so sorry you're having such a hard time, I couldn't pass your post without replying. Ask yourself A) do you still love him? Because if you still do your relationship IS worth saving. And B) can you survive (emotionally/financially) if you split? I ask this because you could end up in an even worse position than you are now.
More than this though is your duty to yourself to get well. If/once you're feeling better you're in a much better position to tackle everything else. If you've only tried femoston there are many more options out there. There's the gel like you say + patches which are very good (I use Evorel 50 and they've been life changing for me). I don't think you can underestimate how different you can feel once you find a regime which works for you. And don't forget hrt is not a drug (like anti depressants) but simply replacing the hormones the body isn't producing anymore, so ditch any guilt on that score.
I think of it as looking after myself and you deserve to do that too x
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Hi peroxideblader,so sorry about your predicament,its so difficult, I have a wonderful husband but funnily enough I just said to him the other week,why do you still love me,I'm not the same person who you chose to marry,he said I'll always love you, I know you'll come through this.thing is,why do you think he would want to find someone else,chances are,most women our age are going to go through all this horrendous menopause stuff,we shouldn't feel we are second rate citizens,we are suffering terribly,so unless he is someone who can get a 20+ year old,good luck to him,would you leave him if it was the other way around?
I really wish you well,it's hard work isn't it?good luck xx
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For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health.....
I can't tell you how many ladies I hear whose husbands say things like “oh you used to be so blah blah...â€
How does he know these other women sailed through the menopause and were delightful to live with and not horrid to anyone?
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That was my query: I would ask for proof, I would want to meet these women, talk with them: and also know how intimate he was in order to find out that they 'sailed through'. Apparently.
People do get into bad habits together, it is sometimes easier to let issues 'go' for a quiet, easier Life. But eventually those issues may become nagging etc..
So don't shout? If you feel anger rising, walk away. You've said your 'piece' and if he isn't listening at all then you need to protect your feelings. Get that cushion and give it a Very Good Thump.
Make sure that you have your finances up to date, talk to a Financial Advisor, ours is great. Will you share a Pension for example. Rent/insurance/moving costs. Maybe a separation ?
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Um - when things go bottom up - I always think it is more comforting to have a plan - you don't actually need to use it but having it there is much less scary than being totally unprepared. He bangs on about how miserable you are but he doesn't sound like a barrel of laughs either. Maybe he should try looking a little closer to home!
I have seen both sides of the fence peroxideblader - my first husband moaned about how bored he was but basically never did anything to change our lives - he left absolutely every decision, where we went, when we went, what we ate, what we bought etc etc to me and so at the end of the day you end up feeling isolated and alone. I came to the conclusion after 6 years living like that - that I was effectively living alone in our marriage looking after 3 children - he being the 3rd child! So I decided that it would be better to look after me and only 2 children! instead of having to carry him as well! Talking about being a "blah" person it took him 3 months before he actually woke up and worked out what he had lost!
Now my 2nd husband; totally different - we share everything and he just gets me! Menopause, sex, lack of sex, moodiness - not a bother for him - we talk about everything and work it out together - he looks after me in all things and I do the same for him. Yes we have the odd blip - no one can please another all of the time but fundementally we fit together.
See where you say in your post that you were going to try new hrt in the New Year "but you wont bother if you leave" - you need to start looking after yourself more - difficult I know when another person is holding you down but if you do leave you need to be feeling well enough to deal with the upheaval. Perinowpost is right hrt is not some sort of medication it is just natural stuff our bodies make and some of us really need it put back because we get appalling symptoms if we try to live our lives without it. She's also right in that you need to answer those questions about your relationship as in "is it worth saving", " do you love him" and also is now the right time to split or do you have to stay a while to make those plans I mentioned above.
Men huh, difficult... just difficult all round most of the time but only you know what is really going on in your marriage. Please try and get yourself sorted physically before January - why wait?
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thank you all so much you've made me feel less of a total nut job and cow bag!!! sorry if I don't answer all your questions and comments.
yes I do love him a lot but don't like him right now he's not very understanding of mental health depression anxiety etc I'm his first committed relationship....he's very black and white I'm very grey and his mother is a hypochondriac big style and he just doesn't believe any health issues are not self inflicted or excuses for bad behaviour. and sadly his exes were alot older 2 went through meno without an issue at all hence his comments but he didn't live with them..we can always put in our happy smiley face part time..his mum sailed through hers too she calls me weak and melodramatic because she had no issues...good on her eh!!@
we've talked tonight about everything but the elephant in the room the fact I said I want a break so we're back to bury it under the carpet.
I know when I feel angry or sad I should walk away to a different room but it comes on so quick when he is insensitive or hurtful I just fire back which is so not me.
I darent try hrt before Xmas as he loves Xmas and I don't think he could take any more illness or side effects and me being worse as he's had enough already...he saw what femoston did to me so I can't risk that and ruin Xmas..I'm not the best anyway at this so called happy family time of year I act the role but my family cut me off 3 years ago so it's emotional and tough plus other Xmas issues so hrt is on hold for now.
counselling is not an option I've been there before I was married for 12 years to a lovely man my soul mate but we married afyer 5 weeks and although I loved him it was as a best friend not a lover or husband and we ended up friends sharing a house. we went to counselling but I couldn't open up as I knew the truth was too hurtful. this time it'd be futile as my partner doesn't think we have a problem well he doesn't..it's just me that's become a nasty moody cow...doesn't need a counsellor to tell him that.
I don't think it helps that I'm on my own from 11pm til 6pm the following day and the empty long hours til I can get to sleep til 4am nightly are the darkest and it carries on into the next day..4 hours sleep and work where most days I don't see a soul...
like a lady said here..I agree sleep deprivation depression and hormonal see saw is not conducive to a happy relationship but afyer 6 years of this I can't see much changing..hence we wanting to be on my own so he can find someone else to make him laugh have fun have sex and just a nice life..he didn't sign up for this shite excuse my language 😥
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You didn't sign up for this either.
You sound as though you have already moved on. So get your finances sorted, get C.mas out of the way - a bad time for many of us - then as Spring arrives, make your decision. No he doesn't deserve your reactions but you aren't responsible for how he reacts when you scream and shout. You don't deserve to feel upset. HRT may be necessary as you are unlikely to feel any different when living apart - you will be alone 24/7 after all.
Maybe make notes!
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As shitty and hopeless as your relationship may seem, i'd Really resist making any decisions that will change your life dramatically until your head is in a better place.
This^^
I have been where you are (peri undiagnosed for 2 years). When you feel so bad, sleep deprived, anxious, depressed etc etc you are simply not in a position to make a rational decision. My husband is my soul mate but I'd have walked away if it wasn't for our daughter. I would strongly advise you to try HRT again.
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Oh my,you poor girl,isn't it infuriating when you hear “I know women who SAILED through the menopause “ oh woopyt bloody doo for them,this is YOU,his wife,maybe with his mother being a hypochondriac is making you feel he's put up with illness a lot & doesn't quite believe your symptoms are real? I know with me,my husbands ex wife was in & out of the priory but she was only an attention seeker (believe me) so when all this happened to me, I tried to hide it from him,didn't want him thinking he married “loony†number two but suppressing it all is a huge mistake,makes it all worse,screw Xmas,please do what's right for YOU,it's only one day,this is your life.
We're all with you here,sending hugs xx
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hi well you're all correct I know I'm not in the right frame of mind to end things and I hope after Xmas to trial hrt check that off my list get my thyroid diagnosed finally and treated and depending on their outcome either split or stay. I'm setting my partner free letting him get a happy new life I know I'll be fine on my own I've been there. I get zero emotional support now I have no friends and family to talk to good or bad as my family are nasty narcissics and my close friends ended our friendship when I got divorced 9 year ago as they didn't agree with my choice. luckily I can vent and ask opinions to you lovely ladies it's so good to know you're there even if it's virtual friendship.
I just hope hrt can help with my awful mood swings and low low mood but whilst this sleep deprivation is going on I can't see it helping ...
from next year my only way round the lack of sleep is to employ someone to work the 8am til 12 lunch for me and I'll sleep from 4am til 11am at least I'll get sleep then. I don't like the idea as I was always a morning person early to bed early to rise and getting up at 11am will just make me feel even more of a failure and a waste of space. sadly humans can be cruel and my sleep pattern is commented on that I'm lazy undisciplined and need to get to bed early...yeh right ..afyer 7 years of trying everything it's a medical hormonal issue not laziness. just I have such low self esteem that any criticism hots me ten times over 😣
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When people are trying to help it can seem as though their way is 'it'. When we are stressed/low suggestions aren't 'read' the same as if we were rational.
Stop beating yourself up!
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Totally agree with clkd,DO NOT beat yourself up,it's out of your control,you need support not criticism
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I hope you don't mind me butting in Peroxideblader but I have been reading some of your previous posts about your sleep problems. I have had what I believe is Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder (DPSD) since my teens (undiagnosed) and it really does look like you have developed it, probably triggered by menopause or possibly some other traumatic event around the same time?
Most of us with the condition have followed all the suggestions from the research such as melatonin, light boxes, blue blocking glasses etc. to little avail. In my case they have improved the quality of my sleep and reduced the daytime grogginess but, ultimately, I still fall asleep at 6am and wake at midday and find it impossible to shift. It has been very hard at times and I am lucky to have a very supportive partner but ultimately my health has been preserved by following this schedule rather than fighting it. If you can sleep a decent number of hours by following your own schedule please, please try and find a way to do so or your mental and physical health will suffer enormously. So many people with this condition fight it and are physical and mental wrecks, functioning only with a cocktail of daily pharmaceuticals.
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I've always had a dodgy sleep schedule. My best time of day is between 9.30pm and 2 am! If I go to bed at 10pm I can be wide awake till 4am and then quite happily sleep in until 11/12 or even 1 in the afternoon. Really unhelpful!!. I have done all the sleep hygiene stuff and found the only way to override it is taking melatonin tablets really high dose at about 9pm which means I can be asleep by 11 but I am just rubbish in the mornings and always have been And yes, Saffy you're right fighting it to fit in with others is a pain in a..se.
I use a "cocktail of pharmaceuticals" as you put it if I have something I know I need to be up for because the chances are I would be awake all night until it was time to get up and then be feeling sick and groggy during the day and actually falling asleep at 2.30 in the afternoon, but I try and stay away from the synthetic prescribed ones. I use melatonin, valarian hops and may throw in an antihistamine. To be honest I don't think we should beat ourselves up about taking natural meds or sleeping tablets if we have to, because sleep deprivation is beyond bad all round. Just do what you have to do to make it bearable - no need to feel like you failed somehow and you "should be able to manage" like everyone else, cos that's what we say to ourselves Well, we can't manage like everyone else so tough!
It's interesting my parents always told me from the day I was born I was a nightmare for sleeping, awake all night, sleep in the day! Maybe we are born like that? I have found that my hrt has stopped the afternoon drowsiness but it hasn't changed my schedule - can still be wide awake at 2am if I let my body do it's thing. I never knew it was considered an actual disorder though Saffy.
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There's a reason sleep deprivation is used for torture! I think it was a lot of the reason I felt so bad, probably you too. It's impossible to function normally when you're sleep deprived. HRT improved my sleep enormously. I didn't try but perhaps sleeping pills might help temporarily? I am sure HRT will improve your temper too, it did mine. There is hope, you can get the old 'you' back, perhaps not 100% but pretty close. There is a reason he chose you to share his life with. You may need to try different HRT regimes before you find one that suits you. I know it's easy to give up but you need quality of life for you whether or not you decide to stay with your OH. Also worth looking after yourself in terms of diet, exercise, relaxation etc.
Vent away, most of us have a hard time with meno and can sympathise with how you feel.
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Hello ....well my 8 year marriage could be over soon we've had a talk tonight and I'm not the person he met I know I'm not. I used to bite my tongue a lot of the time and yes we've had a really bad stressful 2 years with my ever declining health and work issues but these last 6 months I can't seem to bite my tongue it's like 8 years of pent up anger and resentment have all come out. I'm so low everyday and just can't seem to cheer up..I know I have this severe sleep deprivation which makes me down and ratty but I used to still jump out of bed and crack a smile on my face albeit usually fake..now I lie in bed under a massive black cloud very very anxious and depressed.
I know I'm negative and moody now and I nit pick at my fella where before I just took all the bad stuff and kept it inside...
I am ruining his life and he's miserable I'm miserable and I really think I'd be better on my own for good..then I can't hurt anyone or let my moods affect any one else...
the reason I posted is I'm sure this is hormone related as I've been peri for years but the highs and lows are now just lows..can anyone else understand this in a relationship just suddenly becoming this frank no bullshit snappy person from nowhere..I am just so scared this menopause crap will lose me my marriage because I will leave him so he can find someone fun loving happy smiley all the things I'm not...I am seeing a private endocrinologist in January regarding my underactive thyroid the nhs won't confirm and she deals with menopause too so I'm hoping to see if anything shows on tests...I know meno tests are very unreliable in peri...just hoping someone else has felt like this ( I've told my fella I think it's menopause with it being like pmt full time but he's not one for compassion and thinks I'm just using it as an excuse for turning into a nasty miserable unlovable bitch) HELP
My bad me only appeared 7 weeks ago and for me it's mostly lack of conversation, I don't laugh or have the “fire†in my belly I used to have. I don't get angry or bitter with him but went through a phase when I would say to him how he would leave me bc I'm not going to be the person he fell in love with. He would hold me and tell me he'll always love me.
Now he's not a bad man but he's not a perfect man, who is.?
How can they relate?
Bottom line.
If he's a self centred partner who isn't there for you maybe you have every right to be bitter with him.
It's hard to leave a man and be alone...more so at our age. I was never good at being alone.
We tend to take each other for granted in long term relationships, maybe some time spent apart might just give you both time to reflect on if you still love each other or not.
you need to put you first right now. You need to explore HRT options as one brand does not mean others won't work. You need to consider ADs it's noth to be ashamed of, I'm on them ever since peri kicked me in the fanny.
And I hope the consultation with the thyroid specialist reveals something that can lead to treatment x
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Just to clarify Ladybt28, when I mentioned Pharmaceuticals I meant proper heavy stuff like Seroquel, Ritalin etc. not the sort of stuff you (and I) might use. There are a number of Facebook groups and a mailing list set up by a sufferer who participated in the early research into Circadian Rythmn Disorders and the type and quantity of prescribed drugs many of the members take (mainly in the US) is scary :o.
You sound like I was in my twenties, able to pull the sleep back when necessary from a similar sleep preference time. Unfortunately for many, including me, this spirals out of control over the years. Hence my now 6am sleep time :(. My aim is now simply to hold it steady and not slip further (which I can do very easily).
For reference this is the most comprehensive site on this and related conditions : https://www.circadiansleepdisorders.org/info.php#CSD (https://www.circadiansleepdisorders.org/info.php#CSD)
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I did know what you meant Saffy, but in terms of tablets of any kind, herbal, over-the-counter or prescribed medication I think some people feel somehow guilty that they have to resort to taking anything at all. Maybe its just me but I'm sure you have met all those smug people who say "oh no I wouldn't take those if I were you" or "I don't like taking stuff even paracetamol" meaning they wouldn't take anything even something very mild, but continue to suffer without knowing whether it would work or not and make them feel better. I know the drugs that are scary - I was prescribed some in combination which made them scarier and I got rid of them too when they didn't work. I think you just have to weigh up the risk and whether there is any alternative
I know what you mean about spiralling - as you push the early hours forward towards early morning, the longer you need to sleep in and the longer you sleep in, the more it moves towards everyone else waking up!
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Thank you..I have apologised to my fella tonight and told him again I still think he'd be better off leaving and finding someone else but he just said..oh I'm used to your moods and hypochondria I just ignore it...so I felt even worse then..said my hypochondria !!! are you having a laugh..I don't invent illnesses don't lie about illnesses I don't have in fact I am such a strong woman and I genuinely know if most women had had my life for the last 40 years they'd have taken their life years ago...I hide my worries my hurt my desolate feelings behind a smile it's only this last year since was youngest moved out that I could shed the odd tear during my awake hours between 11 and 4am knowing my son wouldn't walk in and see my crumble..so for the first time I'm showing him and telling him how I feel and how I can't control hormones they take over....bla bla bla but he'd zoned out way before just said you'll be fine tomorrow it's just your grumpy ways...aarghhhhh..takes nothing seriously even my health...oh well least we're speaking..
as for dspd I am so shocked but pleased I've found someone else who has it. I didn't mention the illness as I thought people would like I'd made it up. until I joined a dspd fb forum I didn't know it isn't medically but most people are in USA and can life with theirs by keeping to their correct body schedule like you ladies have but as we have our own business I've had to be a day walker and get up at 8 to 8.30am.
I really wish it was recognised as a disability like it is in so many other countries because it is a form of torture when you are judged and classed as lazy undisciplined if you get up later than the norm! I take melatonin lose dose every night or it'd be a 7am or no sleep and quarter dose of zopiclone..I feel pathetic weak and a let down by needing drugs to get even a paltry 4 hours sleep. I find it so hard as I wasn't like this up til 6 years ago I always got up 4 or 5 timessage a night for a wee since I was a toddler but I was a lark and even the occasional 9am rise I feel like I'm not normal..my other half gets pissed off as he needs me from 7.30 on site so 930 is not good..but he gets 8 to 10 hours sleep every night and God forbid he misses an hour he's like a raging bull..yet expects me to survive on 4 hours sleep battle menopause thyroud problems heart issues and poorly son without having some bad days..
can I ask the 2 ladies sorry I forgot your names..how you got around the stigma of not getting up til 12 noon what do you tell people about your dspd...my neighbours are all elderly go to bed at 8pm up at 5 am so they find it shocking I don't open my curtains til 9.30...lazy lump they jokingly say...which Im not...xx
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Yes of course you can ask - its a bit of a tale, loads of it listed in other posts. I have been "ill" (I hate calling it that to be honest because like you I feel I should apologise, but in my posts to you I have told you don't have to worry about what others think! stupid huh... anyway) with anxiety and depression for more than 30 years, starting when I was a teenager. Long story short now at 56 I can look back and see that loads of my issues were hormone based which possibly could have been treated, but 40 years ago hormones were even more of an anathema to the medical profession than they are now and its difficult enough to find someone who deals in hormones now.
I struggled through my 20's and when I look back at what I did and what I accomplished I actually don't know how I managed it at all! My first child was born when I was 26 and I was working full time, had 6 months maternity and went back to work full time but I struggled beyond belief and even more because I suffered from bad postnatal depression By the time I got to about 29/30 it got to the point where I had to keep being off work sick (3 to 6 months at a time) so I became self-employed and set up my own business working from home. I managed to square it that I was home when my son got home from school and I had my 2nd child at 32 so it fitted in with looking after the children, no more childminder fees to pay! Getting them to school on time was a challenge but I used to collapse once I got home or catch an hours snooze before they came home! Basically since the age of 28 roughly I organised my life round my "illnesses" and have done so ever since. I never get to my desk before 10am and that's a very good day, but I can still be at my desk at 11 or midnight - because I am a night owl - I work when I am able. The trouble starts when I have to have meetings, appointments and conferences and when I have to talk to big organisations between the hours of 9-5 or leave to get somewhere before 10 am. If I'm involved in the planning I usually make it for an afternoon and if asked won't take a meeting before 11 am. If I need to be somewhere I make sure I take heavy doses of my melatonin at 9 in the evening. I try not to take them on a regular basis so I know they work when I have to take them. The other days I just accommodate the sleep problem.
I am exceptionally lucky because I work with my 2nd husband (who I explained is a saint!) and have done so for more than 15 years so when I am not at the desk to answer the phone he holds the fort. I still feel the most awful guilt when I open my eyes and usually my first words are "how late is it"? But I have had to accept that this is how it is over the years because trying to fight the anxiety, depression, dodgy sleeping patterns, lack of sleep, children, running a house, sick and elderly relatives etc etc instead of accepting it, was impossible. Family know its a problem but sometimes make fun and I just have to laugh it off. It's totally hidden from others and this is the very first time I have ever told anyone about my days and what goes on behind the scenes in my business. I beat myself up all the time about "how unprofessional" I am and because I keep everyone at arms length so I don't have to explain anything to them , its very isolating. I have had to adapt and reorganise and I have had to force myself to accept the issues I have faced (some have been treated now and life is a bit better and the children are gown) because if I had'nt I know (sounds dramatic but it's true) I would'nt be alive today.
Peroxideblader you work in your own business too right? but it might not be the kind which can be reorganised as easily as mine. You have the problem of an unsupportive partner too who places demands on you early in the morning and expects everything to be "normal". My ex-husband could sleep standing up. He was a milk delivery person where the milk needed on the doorstep from 6am in the morning so he went to bed at 9pm and would get up at 3 or 4 am to go out on his rounds. On a Friday which was a long day he would work from 3am to 1pm in the afternoon. He was always asleep - guarranteed when his head hit the pillow and it used to drive me crazy - towards the end when things were really bad between us I could have strangled him in his sleep - I think you said somewhere in a post - even his breathing annoys you - so I know how you feel!
Its really tough but in all this you must hang on to the fact that you are not physically ok in yourself and you must put yourself first in order to be able to get a handle on all this and you need to get proper treatment. But now you know you are not some freak and there are others of us out here who face/have faced the same sort of problems :bighug:
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Hahaha, I see we are all up! Really interesting to hear your story Ladybt28. TBH I seem to have swerved most of the stigma by withdrawing more and more from 'normal' life as the condition has progressed. I've had some form of DSPD for so long and assumed it was insomnia when I was younger (as many do) so friends from those days and family just knew that was how it was. Of course, back then, I could still manage a more normal schedule and was just accepted as a night owl, plus I was always somewhat self-contained and single-minded ;D.
I managed in a similar way for several years, 'through volunteer work, post grad stuff, work but it was starting to kill me and those I knew could see what was happening. I wish I had known much earlier how the DSPD was going to develop. I would've factored it into my career and life choices rather than waste all those years training for work I was never going to be able to do :-\. In the end I came to the end of a short term contract, couldn't get any related work at all and we bought a house to renovate. I pretty much dropped out - fortunately my OH earned enough to support us both but I 'paid my way' by doing most of the renovations myself, intending to go back to work at some point. If we had needed me to I would've had to take some sort of part time/shift work but my schedule slipped further and further and I haven't worked in any formal capacity since. This shocks people much more than the DSPD! Most people are perplexed at what I do all day but I'm an introvert and an only child and have never struggled to fill my time. My OH is accepting and has adapted with little complaint (that's not to say he has never been frustrated by it) and I will be forever grateful for that.
We moved from Brighton to Devon just before perimenopause kicked in big time (bad move) so the DSPD, which spiralled after the move plus meno stuff has resulted in me withdrawing from 'normal' life even further. I have no local friends just a few people I 'know' so sometimes I tell people I work shifts to stall the questioning, sometimes I just tell them upfront that I have a sleep disorder, giving details if they ask. Most just seem to accept it but I guess things may be different if we had a proper friendship. I think most people just see it as another one of my quirks such as my mad grey curly hair, choosing not to have children or drive, my introversion and need for time alone etc.
I have very little close family and they seem bemused at times but know me well enough not to push their luck! My dad has massive sleeping issues himself so I tell him my DSPD is his fault if he questions it (there really is often a genetic component ;). At the end of the day it is just how it is, it is isolating and lonely at times but I have had to come to terms with it and if people want to have a relationship with me then they have to accept it too.
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I know it's easy for me to say but please shout it from the roof tops (if you feel confident to). People accuse you of being lazy when you don't get up because they don't know it's a medical condition - me included. I'm sure they'd be far more sympathetic if they knew. So thanks for sharing, I have learned something today.
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It seems I've got it and I didn't even know it was a medical condition Sheila99! The difficulty is that people of my age were born and brought up in the 60s/70's when there was still this idea of strong work ethic 9-5, women keeping house where the expectation level of "how you should be" was ingrained. My grandfather was a regimental sergeant major (although I never knew him). My grandmother (on my mum side) was "in service" on a big house on Guernsey when she was young so my own mother was brought up with pretty strict almost Victorian values and I'm afraid she passed some of those "issues" onto me!
The world has changed so much but I still feel I have to hide my health issues which although they are connected, if you listed them would appear to be many! primarily because I don't like the labels that go with them and the judgements people make that go with them.
I didnt know there was a genetic component to it either Saffy? - my mother didnt sleep well, had horrendous menopause, had trouble conceiving (so underlying gynea/hormone issues probably) was described as "highly strung" (that's an old phrase if ever I heard one) so maybe she is the culprit!
So peroxideblader -what do you make of all the sleep stuff?
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wow I feel like crying but in a good way..I've found 3 others that have dspd it's fantastic..because no disrespect to anyone here who has helped me you've been so lovely it's my sleep that affects alot..not only in low mood and depression but trying to lead a so called normal daily life i e 9 to 5 bed at 10 up at 7 etc..which I've tried so hard to do because society only accepts the norm!
it's awful that we all either make excuses why we can't make early appts or why we sleep in but we have to..because it's sleep and the effects are hidden we look normal we function eat care for our kids so there's nothing wrong just GET AN EARLY NIGHT...God I hate that regular patronising comment...!!!
I luckily have no friends and only my dad left talking to me but he doesn't do feelings and caring it's just a functional weekly chat about the weather my kids bla bla so he has no idea about my bloody awful health..
classic case today I asked my fella if I could get up at 9.30 real treat and if he could get up at 8.30 nip the dog for a widdle ( he goes to sleep flat out for 11pm so 8.30 is 9 half hours) ..well he didn't and I was woken by loud banging on our door..our joiner come to finish some work off at 8.45...he knows not to come til 930 gives me half hour ish to come round get dressed afyer my 4 hours sleep but he laughs it off says you lazy cow get up earlier you'd get more work done...aarghhhhh..I've had 7 months of renovations at home total back to brick and every single tradesman has sarcastically said they're not coming later than 8 o'clock start I should get to bed early and not be a lazy sod...it's been soul destroying...I feel a failure as I don't fit into the normal bracket and get judged all the time..any other illness which those is is accepted and not judged but this one isn't...
I've got to get up for 8am tomorrow we've got a busy day but the stress of the pressure to sleep will make it that I won't sleep as I'll get so anxious and panicky I'll be awake all night..
don't you find the worst part is how lonely you feel in the early hours. I do read books lots of them but I mainly use the darkest hours before dawn to cry and cry and let all my upset come out whilst no one can see me.
recently with this peri stage I can burst into tears during the day too when I just want someone to make it all better..go to sleep for 5 years and wake up feeling better and being able to sleep. my mum and dad are both erratic sleepers but the other way they wake early..my mum sailed through her menopause not one symptom but my nana had breakdowns was sectioned on and off for almost 8 years and it ruined her..guess that's me then@
thank you so so much I mean that..I don't post on here to open my heart or to moan I feel selfish but this time I'm glad I did..😊😊
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I hope you manage to get some sleep. So hard when sleep just evades us. I can manage on 5 hours although it is interrupted sleep. I find that I sleep better if I go to bed between 12.30 and 1. This takes me through to 6 which is when I get up for work anyway. If I went to bed at 10 I'd be awake from 3.
Sending sleepful hugs to you.
Taz x
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Peroxideblader builders are my nightmare! Luckily, back when we renovated our house we had three floors and I could hole away on the top floor and mostly slept 'through the racket or woke and fell back to sleep quickly (those were the days :-\). My OH's hours were flexible and he could let them in (or we knew them well enough to give them a key). They were forbidden to use a radio 'though as that would wake me. Many grumbled about that but none said anything about my sleep (to me ;D ) - just told them I had a sleep disorder (or worked shifts).
From the various forums and mail groups it seems that a lot of us who have had DSPD for years actually enjoy the wee small hours and are at our most productive/creative at that time. Although I'm sure I have the condition, there's little doubt in my mind that the extreme and increasing lateness of my sleep time is partly the result of my lifelong tendency to love my alone time at night. Over the years I have designed a kitchen, drawn up garden plans, written up specs for builders, studied and written essays, planted seeds, potted on plants, cooked meals, read and/or chatted on forums, watched Youtube videos, read Twitter, watched TV programmes that my OH hates, re-organised cupboards, shopped for household goods and clothes, tried out makeup, bathed and pampered, done the washing, read until my eyes hurt and still not wanted to sleep because I've found something else to do/read ;D. I also find that the busier or more stressful the day, the later I go to sleep as I need more time alone to recover/do all the stuff I want to do by myself. These days I'm far less productive as menopause is exhausting me but I still happily do the bathing/reading/TV/internet/video/organising stuff thing for hours and hours after my OH goes to bed ::).
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I'm afraid that the builders would have lost the job! My House. My Rules - though 'they' did have the radio on yesterday >:( indoors when they were outside having a fag - another issue for me :bang: - but they did a good job. As for not starting later than 8.30., that's the legal requirement - until 4.30. 9.00-12 on Sat and no building work on Sundays. Fortunately we knew our builder well enough that a) he wouldn't even consider such statements and b) if we needed him to arrive later, he would find something else to do.
Sleep deprivation is the pits. Because we are a 24/7 society we often don't feel able to sleep when our bodies/brains need it in order to remain well because we have to serve the needs of others. Which has a knock on effect. I have always been able to sleep on a linen line when my brain shuts off, though sometimes I get nights when sleep is evasive ::). When my brain shuts off I'm gone ........ often waking at the end of a TV programme that I really wanted to see :-\.
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Here here clkd,
Peroxideblader you MUST stop calling yourself a failure,that would mean the lot of us on here are failures and that,we are definitely not.
I also hate the word “normal†what is normal? I've never been normal,I call myself unique 😊 which is what we are
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thank you...I'm not normal I guess like you say and unique sounds much nice..I'll have to practice that word see if it sticks..😊
clkd you're lucky having an understanding builder sadly ours aren't they are old school men as in woman gets up at 6am cools breakfast makes 50 cups of tea and stays out of their way. a tiler rang this morning f7nnoly enough and when adriano told him he has to come for 930 no earlier as I have a sleep problem he said yeh it's called being an idle sod and he needed to put his foot down...hmmm..can't wait to meet this lovely man he'll regret saying that!!
as for being productive afyer midnight I've also read that but because I'm not a natural night owl I'm too tired to do much physically my body is asleep but my brain is on full alert plus I have been told repeatedly no screens no tv just read or relax. I've so many programmes I want to watch and house renovations I could be doing but we live in an open plan small bungalow so I can't make noise or put the TV on it'd wake me partner and dog then I would be in trouble..
I am doing a online course but I find anything I study in the early hours goes in my head then straight out again so it's not very productive..the good thing is I'm very erudite and my local library knows me like a best friend...5 hours reading a night I whizz through them. 😊
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Shall all of us on here come to your house?we'll all meet this tiler,wouldn't that be interesting 😂we'd have to keep clkd on a very tight lead though 🤣🤣
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No - let's go to HIS house at 4am and start knocking walls out... Well, not me, I'll be asleep (I hope), just everyone who had trouble sleeping.
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:lol: what amazes me is that the man in this household who took the call from the tiler this morning, agreed that he can continue with the job. No support there then?
I will crank up the charabanc ;) :whist:
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How many of us will you get in said charabanc?you'll recognise me as i'll Be the one with a baseball bat in my hand😄
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It's the size of a coach .......... no heating, no air conditioning, no seat belts, aged about 1930s ;D
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I really feel for you Peroxideblader
It's awful when the OH doesn't / won't understand 😞😞
Mine pays lip service, but when it all comes down to it - he gets boiling mad if I so much ask home to finish a chore that he's supposed to have finished...! As I've said before, the mirtazapine (tiny dose) helps me, but just lately I've had to increase the dose to 15mg as although it helps me get to sleep, I've been waking by around 2am, again. So frustrating 😐😐😐. Mine wouldn't dare call me lazy, etc as he would take sitting in front of telly / playing xbox, over doing anything at all!! Which is a whole other story in itself. His snoring is so shocking (apnoea) that I've had to move into the spare room....he's not happy, but as he won't do anything about the apnoea (in fact gets really angry when I mention it!) it's down to him really. Like yours, he's opinionated, and like you, I've let many things slide I've the last four years we've been together.
But no more - I've started asking him for things - chores done, help with dinner, my daughter, the gardens etc, and as I'm expecting him to explode I ready myself for it, speak quietly in return, and walk away. Happened yesterday, three times. As much as I wanted to, I didn't react, the jobs got done. He expected lots of praise, but I gave none, saying instead that it was nice to have those things out of the way now. He rang his mother to big note himself, especially about the garden, and she just commented that ‘yes, the outside of the house is very imprtant to always keep looking nice' ...and yes, I had a quiet chuckle to myself. He was much mollified by evening. This is just a small example of what I've chosen for myself, very similar to my first marriage, and frankly, like you, I'm done. I have my own crap to deal with without the ‘third child'.
However, this is about you and your lack of sleep. Have you had a ‘sleep study' done, or been to see a sleep specialist? There is so much that can be done in this field. If you do have the dsp disorder, they will diagnose it properly for you, and they will sit your OH down and explain, in black and white, how it is. That should stop him from calling you ‘hypochondriac', especially if it comes from a male specialist as your man sound slightly misogynist. I believe a lot of his issues stem from his mother always ‘being ill', so perhaps some relationship counselling might help you both. And maybe have a male counsellor for that too. Some men won't take any info from a woman - mines like that, and yours may well be too xx
And as for previous partners ‘sailing thru' meno...don't make me laugh - why isn't he still with them then? More likely, they were lovely women like yourself who bottled it all up, and when it became too much, ended things. Marriage is ‘for better or worse' and all things need to be shared. The underpinning thing with any marriage is trust. Your trust in him to feel safe and supported has been seriously undermined by his own egotistical behaviour and this is actually making things worse for you. If he won't go to relationship counselling, maybe you could see a relationship counsellor in your own - it really will help you to sort out your true feelings about it all.
I don't have anything to offer you re your sleep, but please look after you - try and stay calm in the face of his unjustified anger (very hard, I know)
Good luck with it all xx
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His snoring is so shocking (apnoea) that I've had to move into the spare room....he's not happy, but as he won't do anything about the apnoea (in fact gets really angry when I mention it!) it's down to him really.
I find a sharp elbow applied to the ribs does the trick. I have it down to a fine art - just enough to stop him snoring, not so much that he realises it was me that woke him up :D
Some men won't take any info from a woman - mines like that, and yours may well be too xx
Grounds for divorce IMO.
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:thankyou: NorthArm - FabULUS!
Mine had sleep apnoea which would wake me when *he* stopped breathing. We went to the GP and he was told that losing weight would help ;-). It did. He no longer holds his breath ........
I wouldn't be moving from our bed as it has the lleccy blanket on ;-). He'd be into the spare room, on the floor 'cos the bed has 'stuff' on it waiting to be hung in the cupboards :D
Someone told me this morning that I am 'unique'. A woman I have never met B4 and I can't remember how the conversation was going ;D. Must polish the halo :ange: ;).
Remember too that you are not responsible for how he reacts to your asking for assistance. Walking away after making your suggestion is good. :foryou:
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Good grief what is it with all these men and their attitudes :o. Seriously ladies you all have more patience than I, I couldn't be dealing with all that nonsense. Can you see why I never had children? ;D
Peroxideblader - I use blue light blocking specs for three or four hours before bed so you can use all devices and watch as much TV as you like without it affecting your sleep. I do tend to creep about a lot more in this house (modern with cardboard walls!) but my OH never wakes when I watch TV/videos, even if I'm in the next room - can you get some headphones? Seems unfair that you are condemmed to read only!
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OH never wakes up when I am working in the office next door to our bedroom (Like I am now ) he never hears the printer going in the middle of the night. Nice to see you still up Saffy! :) I can even read an ipad lying next to him - he's out like a light and he snores - I wish I could attach a microphone to this post you would all be able to hear him! Actually, sometimes I find it intensely annoying but it's not his fault I suppose.
Hum men and attitudes - got rid of one like that but struck gold with the second one. Sometimes if I do wake him coming to bed in the middle of the night he will go and make me a "sleepy tea" which is teabags including chamomile and valerian which are supposed to help sleep.
Hey Peroxidblader - defo keep practising "unique" in front of a mirror preferably and it will stick and try some of NorthArm's tactics - it kind of takes them by surprise ;D (nice one NorthArm)- they don't expect that sort of approach but I found with first hubby it could go one of three ways - either it worked a treat and got things done or he got massively p**d off or I couldn't keep calm and lost my sh** instead ::) which defeated the object. Anyway we are sending a parcel load of Gumption (metophorically speaking) so you can start challenging his unsupportive attitude :-X (I'm being polite!) cos I'm with CLKD
- he was just plain disrespectful allowing the tiler to talk about you in that way and well the flaming tiler would be given his marching orders when he turned up at my house! In my opinion his behaviour the more I hear is pretty out of order really - so exactly what does this bloke have going for him - you say you still love him in early post...hum... he talks about you changing but how has he changed over the 8 years you have been together?
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Oh lol Sheila and CKLD 😂
I've tried the elbow, numerous times, he snores in any position, truly. At least my ex husband would stop when he laid on his side. This one has severe polyps too - he won't do anything about it, sleeps like crap (tries to tell me it's because I won't sleep in there with him, such bs, his ex told me it was like that when they were together 😂), so as far as I'm concerned it's his problem....
And CKLD - he just WON'T take care of his health - won't get the well man check, he's 20kg at least (approx 3.5 stone) overweight, full of polyps. Can't climb stairs without gasping...full of arthritis, up three times a night to pee, probably has early type 2 diabetes, eats nothing but crisps and chocolate when I'm not around...the list goes on!! I used to worry about it, but he got so angry I've decided to look after me instead. The spare room is much nicer - bed is more comfy, it's much darker and quieter in the middle of the house - he gets the neighbour's dog barking all night 😂😂....if he won't take care of himself, again, no problem of mine....xx
And yes, I no longer react to his bs - at 52, with my own career I can well take care of me and mine, at the moment he's on very thin ice - we have a lottery called powerball, and the slogan is ‘one powerball, and I'm out of here'. So I'm letting him continue on his shabby, half arsed way of doing things, his shirty attitude to me, etc...the minute our house is sold, it's ‘one powerball' for me.....I am so done with it all
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Well said. "He's a Big Boy Now" ;)
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thank you for all your support and funny comments ..men eh can't live with them can't legally kill them hahaha..
we're ok at the moment I'm training myself for now to bite my tongue and change the subject quickly and he's being tactful for the first time in 8 years and not discussing my anger menopause problems..we both know it's only been brushed under the carpet but I think now he knows I would walk away he knows I'm not bullshitting and I need support sometimes..
been a crap few days had early workmen in for 8.30 last night I didn't bother going to sleep when it got to 6am wide awake. I'm suffering now but a combination of my meno hyper brain and dspd I'm no nearer to an early night. tomorrow a parcel he has ordered is due from 7am to 1pm I said if he wakes me up with a parcel at 7sm I will literally throw the parcel him and delivery guy through the window!!"
they come round first delivery round here I think it's because our cul de sac and area is average age of 85 so they're in bed for 8pm up at 5am..( another reason why they think I'm lazy not like in their day of course!! they think I'm in bed for 8 up at 8 God forbid I'd get 12 hours sleep I'd be dead if I did ...
thanks for the info on the blue glasses I've heard of them. I've got ear phones for my ipad and phone so I'm starting to watch all my programmes on my ipad when I order them glasses..not sure where to buy them I'll have a look now. you partner snores in every position too it's off the scale. in summer our next door but one neighbours can hear him and we're detached he's got sleep apnoea but won't do see a doctor and Wear a mask to help.
so 3 years ago I decamped into my dressing room and slept there then my son moved oit so I got his room.
it's bliss for both of us he loves not sharing with a sweating menopausal fidget that wakes ten times a night for a wee and I get almosr silence with ear plugs and no snoring dog too..
I'm not the best at Xmas time especially this year as I've got empty nest syndrome badly but both the both sides are here Xmas day..but I hate the pressure build up the expectations to be happy fun bouncy etc I'm none of those inside..the outside fixed smile I put on is convincing plus it's 4 years since I finally cut my toxic mother and brother out of my life which was good but Xmas is all about loved ones getting together but mines a very small group..
never mind...my boys are my world and hopefully still have a partner too..roll on January to try the plethora of hrt and hope I find one that sAves my sanity my health and my relationship
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:bighug: :bighug: