Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: racjen on November 03, 2018, 11:30:39 AM
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I feel seriously suicidal this morning - was awake all night from 1am for two nights running. Can't stop crying. I just can't see any sign of this nightmare ending, it's been a year now of awful morning anxiety, failed ADs and other drugs and increasing depression. I want to live, but not like this, but I can't bear the pain it would cause my daughters if I killed myself. But right now I just want to take an overdose and never wake up. I'm in agony.
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Hi racjen PLEASE CALL A HELPLINE. I am sending you the biggest hugs ever. Xxxx
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I feel like there's something seriously wrong with me that nothing's going to fix - everything I try that helps other people seems to make me worse. Been trying CBD oil which is supposed to help with anxiety and depression, and although it helped with sleeping it didn't do anything else. So I upped the dose and now I feel majorly depressed, just like when I take ADs, even though everyone says it's perfectly safe and it can't have that effect on you. So what's going on? Am I making it all up on some level for some bizarre reason stuck way back in my childhood? I just don't want to be here any more when it feels so bad.
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please don't do anything I have been where you are and still have the darkest of days I am sleep deprived it's been over 7 years and it is torture. I too don't get good results from anything that helps others it is an awful heart breaking place to be. my children like you keep me alive and you need to keep telling yourself that..life will get better it won't seem that way now but it will. please please pm me if you want to I'll be there for you..the black dog and me are best friends I've learnt to live with him ....and the early hours of the morning are always the bleakest I'm there every night..sending love and support xx
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I feel seriously suicidal this morning - was awake all night from 1am for two nights running. Can't stop crying. I just can't see any sign of this nightmare ending, it's been a year now of awful morning anxiety, failed ADs and other drugs and increasing depression. I want to live, but not like this, but I can't bear the pain it would cause my daughters if I killed myself. But right now I just want to take an overdose and never wake up. I'm in agony.
Look at this you wrote on the 28th Oct
Well yes AgathaC, it really does make that much difference - if I swim in the river in the morning it both kills the anxiety and lifts my mood to the point where I can be quite exuberant. My daughters and I went to a National Trust house in the afternoon and spent the whole time killing ourselves laughing at the various portraits, naked cherub friezes and other strange artefacts on displayâ€
Pm me if you want to chat x I'm Lancashire way. I'm looking to make connections 👋
It's a bad day... better days will follow... nothing stays the same good or bad
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Thankyou everyone, I phoned the Samaritans. Still here x.
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Racjen - find someone to be with you - keep posting here - think about your daughters! I know it all gets too much believe me you have seen my posts - it's not easy - but ending it is not the answer either.
See what Roseenglish has posted - some days are worse than others although they all seem pretty black and you know that in your heart of hearts - it is just a really very bad day but what you wrote to AgathaC now applies to you. What you want to do and what you need to do is get sleep - but you what you want to do as well is wake up because you're daughters need you!
Can you catch a snooze this afternoon? - sleep deprivation is the absolute worst for depression - but sleeplessness is also a feature it. I know because when I am bad I can't sleep and I find night time the worst because I sit up thinking when I should be in bed resting but I just cannot switch my mind off! CBD oil did'nt do anything for me much either.
The trouble is it is probably not the CBD oil that has caused this - it is the fluctuations of your hormones and the fact you cant get the regime to settle. My anxiety phase was really long about years but now it has gone - so it is possible. I know I cant say anything to make it feel any better or take away those feelings but keep talking to us and it will pass - it may not pass to a good place that you think it should be but it will pass to a place which isn't quite so bad. It's baby steps. Up a bit - down a bit - very low - then up again for maybe a bit longer - that's how it goes! Honestly I know and I really feel for you. :bighug:
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Only just seen this!!
Racjen - you are not alone.
We are all here for you.
I'm up in Surrey/London otherwise I would offer you some face to face support. Hate to think of you feeling this way.
I've just had a great few days walking - your equivalent of the wild swimming. Felt terrific.
Home now. Shit day at my office yesterday. No sleep last night. So today I am anxious, jittery, panicky.
You got to press the stop button now today as you've got to your limit. Have a swim, put on a film, have a sleep. Anything to get out of this complete trough that you are in today.
Lots of love and please send an update TODAY xxx
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Hi Racjen
Hope you're feeling a bit better now
Is there anyone physical you can contact to come sit with you when you're feeling this low? Could Crisis team help you ?
It's so sad to read these sorts of posts, and to have tried so many different ADs with no effect, it breaks my heart
Big hugs xxx
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No, I get the impression the Crisis Team have pretty much given up on me because I've officially been handed over to the Community Mental Health Team, but since their psychiatrist was one of those ignorant gits who doesn't take menopause seriously and was incredibly patronising and belittling in his assessment, I'm now on a waiting list until whenever they have someone available to help me. The Samaritans have been much more helpful and sympathetic.
Ladybt - the confusing thing is that I don't have any fluctuations in my hormones. I had chemotherapy for breast cancer 2 years ago and that completely destroyed my ovaries, so the only hormones I'm getting are via HRT. Nobody apart from the private specialist I saw a few times has taken any interest in trying out different regimes, I'm just stuck on Evorel 100 patch with Utrogestan if I can bear to take it, and that's it. No idea what my estrogen level is now. I can't afford to keep going private, I've lost my job and now existing on ESA. Just hanging on for the Poole Menopause CLinic appointment I've had to fight tooth and nail for, on Nov 20th. And Poole is a 3 hour drive from me...
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Actually probably the most helpful thing the Samaritans volunteer did today was to give me permission to just have a really bad day - at the moment I'm battling on, forcing myself to go to yoga classes and zumba classes and see friends and walk into town so I don't end up a recluse etc. etc. and actually, after two nights on 3hrs sleep I'm bloody knackered. I find it really hard to give in and admit that it's all become too much, I just can't do it today, because I'm terrified that if I let myself have a day when I stay in my pyjamas on the sofa I'll never get up again. Just have to wait and see what happens tomorrow.
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Good to hear from you, Racjen x
You've got that appointment in 17 days. It's a while but it's something to work towards, at least.
What or who can you take to that appointment so that they understand your situation fully and you can get proper “value†out of the appointment?
I'm sure you've already thought of this because you are very clear and thoughtful in your posts but a diary and a timeline will help and also maybe even a copy of some of your posts here? So they know that these feelings and episodes are regular and cyclical and hormone driven.
In the meantime, how can we help? X
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I'm so sorry you're feeling this way Racjen - it's an awful place to be. I second what all the other ladies have said ❤️❤️
Above all, please, please be kind to yourself ❤️❤️
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Just sent this and want to send you a virtual hug ((Racjen)) . Please phone the Samaritans again this evening xxx
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Well said, Northarm. Very well said. We are often not kind to ourselves.
Racjen - you are a mother of two girls (hope I got that right), breast cancer beater, eloquent lady, wild swimmer. Try and hold on to that when you are in those dark places even though (as I know) it can be impossible to shake off the black dog of doom snapping at your heels.
Keep that Samaritans number close by and call them if you need to. Do you have anyone in the house tonight?
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When I was ill I never got the same person twice at Samaritans, they are encouraged not to build up a relationship with a caller. I got worn out telling different people the same thing :'( so after 3 times, I stopped ringing.
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Completely agree and understand CLKD. I'm sure Racjen knows she won't get continuity of care/support but she will get a sympathetic ear in a time of complete crisis.
What is encouraging is that you (CLKD) were ill enough to call three times but you have made it through. That sort of thing gives great hope to sufferers of anxiety and/or depression like Racjen, myself and others, together with the other wise words you often post (your diary tips helped me no end).
Love to all and big hugs to Racjen x
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:thankyou:
It's the constant despair ......... people can't understand how I could be OK one moment then curled up crying the next.
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:thankyou:
It's the constant despair ......... people can't understand how I could be OK one moment then curled up crying the next.
Exactly - I know that I feel the same level of desperation every morning, but on a good day I can pull myself together and seem relatively normal to the world. Some days yes we can even go out for the day and I can cope. But not today, I literally couldn't leave the sofa all day. And AgathaC, it's not cyclical, I have no functioning ovaries so it's constant, the only fluctuations are to do with things I'm putting into my body to try and find a solution ie HRT, ADs, CBD oil etc. etc. - all of which seem to make things worse.
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I don't know too much about the CBD oil. What is it supposed to do? X
Sorry if I said cyclical, not well explained x
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Racjen my ovaries were on a decline functioning-wise since I was 32 and a scan at 48 couldn't detect them, it's been diagnosed as they have shrivelled and disintegrated, this seems the most logical explanation as at age 45 I literally came crashing down, terrible low mood, anxiety, lots of awful and different symptoms to what I had at 32 with ovaries just failing. Testosterone replacement has been my saviour, have you tried it? It levelled my mood, gave me hope, and energy. I now enjoy new hobbies, socialising and although I still have wobbles they are nothing compared to my days pre-T replacement x
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Hi Racjen - so happy to hear that you have surfaced enough to post here - that's a good sign! We are so relieved to hear from you. I understand about the breast cancer and that you have no working overies relying on hrt only but there is no reason why you shouldn't be like any of us and find that some regimes may work better for you than others? For example why will something work for AgathaC but the same thing won't work for me? I'm pretty sure that if AgathaC or I both lost our overies surgically we wouldn't necessarily get the same relief from the same HRT regime. That's what I meant about fluctuating hormones - the ones that are being put back through your hrt regime - they will fluctuate depending on absorption and how long they stay in your body and how they react with what other meds you use. They might not be working the right way for you? Hurdity always flags about absorption through different methods when explaining why gel might work for someone but patches work for others and then others have to take tablets. They should all work the same way but what gets written here proves that they don't and that is because we are all different and our bodies work in different ways.
Only 17 days until you can see someone properly at the meno clinic in Poole and I really hope you get someone knowledgeable and sensible like AgathaC says... someone who can evaluate your situation properly because it is different from most of us here - you need to hang on in their which ever way you can. We are all wishing you well and thinking of you - I've been where you are and so have a lot of the other posting. Keep posting :foryou:
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Just logging on to see how Racjen is this morning?
Hope you had a better night and you feel you can face today x
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Struggling to get through the crippling morning anxiety again, after another bad night. I'm lying here in bed sobbing at the moment, haven't got the energy to get myself moving.
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I've no wish to sound trivial but have you tried taking sleeping tablets to try to get a good nights sleep ?
Sleep patterns are so important for your mental health. I watched my mother sink into depression and my daughter has been treated at the RD&E in recent years. My daughter now manages without medication but does watch her sleep patterns and orders tablets when she is slipping.
I realise menopause doesn't help.
Gangan X
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Sleeping tablets don't work for me unfortunately - have tried Zopiclone and another Z one, no effect whatsoever. I don't know if there are any other types available.
Not on my own, my daugher is with me today, thanks Sparkle x
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Sleeping tablets don't work for me unfortunately - have tried Zopiclone and another Z one, no effect whatsoever. I don't know if there are any other types available.
Not on my own, my daugher is with me today, thanks Sparkle x
Temazopam and other “pams lorazepam etc..
Also not knowing what meds you're on if any, but some ADs have excellent drowsiness so you take them at night
Dosulpine is one I take at a low dose it's an old Tricyclic though and no longer one they like to prescribe due to known heart issues
I asked for it as mum had used it without issues for years.
This was when I tuned 40 and had an episode which the doctor flat out refused to consider maybe hormonal bc “I was too youngâ€
so slapped me on ADs told me I had depression.
Took me two years following to see my symptoms appeared 2 weeks before me period even with the ADs. (Never had pms before I turned 40 so did not understand the anxiety insomnia and depression out of the blue)
Anyway the point is, whilst it doesn't treat hormonal ups and downs it certainly helps me sleep. I used to be a natural early riser at 7 without an alarm
Since taking Dosulpine and assuming I'm not having a bout of insomnia myself I can sleep 11 hours.
You should ask your doctor for an AD that has a calming effect and not one that has a uplifting effect like Prozac. Prozac made me wired.
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I have said before in another post try valerian-hops drops from a proper health food shop - completely natural and work a treat also I buy melatonin from America over the internet. It is the chemical that our body uses to react to light and put us to sleep. You cant get it here but you can buy it - another lady here uses it. It also works brilliantly and believe me I don't sleep and when I was at my worst went about 3 days on a couple of hours.
I have had and don't like sleeping tablets either the ones the doc gives or the ones you can buy for short use in Boots. They give me this horrible hung over feeling and I feel like I cant wake properly afterwards.
One thing to go with my post of yesterday when I said "fluctuating hormones" Hurdity posted today on another ladies post about someone who had had their overies removed - she said that you would have no testosterone at all. This is likely to be contributing also to you feeling so bad. One for the list for the meno clinic?
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Hello racjen.
I've just caught this thread and wanted to send you my best wishes.
I completely understand how you feel and how desperate and frustrated you must be. Unfortunately I can't add anything to the advice you've been given but I hope you feel better soon.
Take care and sending hugs.
K.
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Sleeping tablets don't work for me unfortunately - have tried Zopiclone and another Z one, no effect whatsoever. I don't know if there are any other types available.
Not on my own, my daugher is with me today, thanks Sparkle x
I'm glad you have your daughter with you today. I know your babies (I know all grown but always our babies) are what helps you keep going. And just keep going. I know it's hard but you are an amazing, strong woman as you've proven.
I don't do well with sleeping tablets either. Things that should calm me down/make me drowsy don't. Thinks that should wake me, like caffeine, are actually calming and I've used that to fall asleep at night before. I have attention deficit disorder so that's why for me.(not saying you do it anything) I do tend to sleep longer, mostly, on a full dose of Benadryl. But that's still not a guarantee. If I can fall asleep, it's about the only thing that keeps me asleep when I'm having problems.
Melatonin is worth a shot. Start small and work up the dose. If you start having really odd dreams (you'll know) then the dose is too high.
I hope you can get some good sleep. I know that helps with the morning anxiety.
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I have said before in another post try valerian-hops drops from a proper health food shop - completely natural and work a treat also I buy melatonin from America over the internet. It is the chemical that our body uses to react to light and put us to sleep. You cant get it here but you can buy it - another lady here uses it. It also works brilliantly and believe me I don't sleep and when I was at my worst went about 3 days on a couple of hours
I use a protein mix called About Time ZZ also from the USA which knocks me out it contains Meletonin and Tryptophan both natural. However after 2 nights use it stops working due to tolerance so I only use it occasionally.
https://tryabouttime.com/products/nighttime-recovery-formula
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You say you have daily morning anxiety which passes in the afternoon. Have you had your cortisol level checked first thing in the morning? If not, ask your GP to test it for you. Too high or too low at wake up time can create havoc mentally. Cortisol production is running on a circadian rhythm and should be highest first thing in the morning when you wake and lowest last thing at night. You can't sleep so that could mean you have high cortisol at night and then you have the anxiety in the morning which could mean you are too low or high at that point. This is not something your average GP will think of unless you talk to them about it. It's just a blood test, so it's easy for them to make an initial check on the morning level.
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I would stop everything other than a balanced diet. There are so many un-known factors in the CBD oils regardless of the current hype ....... meletonin is prescribed to those over the age off 55 who can't sleep - apparently lots of children are getting it but it is messing with other health factors. Must dig out the article.
Also one can be sensitivity to the fillers and coverings of medications. So cutting out everything will stop any of that sensitivity.
Keep hydrated. Eat little and often. Allow your body to shed itself of any medication prescribed or otherwise. Let it go back to nature rather than pumping stuff into it. The body heals itself when allowed to do so unless one has a chronic condition. I have to take ADs for Life in order to keep my brain supported. [never had any tests though to see what it's lacking ::)]
You say that you react opposite to what medications are prescribed to do ........ there must be a reason for that. It could be adrenaline that pushes medication into the system too fast ........... which might be due to the cortisol effect. Which is of course natural.
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I don't know too much about the CBD oil. What is it supposed to do? X
Sorry if I said cyclical, not well explained x
AgathaC, CBD is the non-psychoactive element of cannabis. It's all the rage at the moment for treating anxiety, depression, insomnia and a whole host of other ailments. Extremely expensive and so far not doing a lot for me, but I have read that for anxiety particularly it requires very high doses and that would be ridiculously expensive.
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It is hype at the moment and only prescribed to those who require it and NOT by GPs. Specialists have been given a Special Licence. Long-term effects are unknown.
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Thanks for all the advice. One of my biggest problems is that I can't tolerate any ADs at all - have tried 8 or 9 different ones from different classes, and all make me suicidally depressed within days. I am also seriously testosterone deficient, but after a week on that I was again suicidally depressed. My cortisol level was checked a few months ago and it was normal, so that one seems to be a dead end too.
All this is why I say I feel like there's just something wrong with my brain that means that nothing works the way it should. There's clearly some missing piece of the jigsaw at the moment. The only things that work to blast the anxiety and depression out of my system are cold water swimming, and really strenuous exercise. So this morning at 9am I was swimming in the River Dart in the rain, not most people's idea of a relaxing Sunday morning, but it transformed my mood from yesterday when I literally couldn't get out of bed. And I have a rigorous program of Kundalini yoga (much harder work than any yoga I've done before) and Zumba classes during the week. I know it's all good for my health in general, but it's bloody knackering having to do this stuff just to keep going, and I wish there was more understanding of how the brain works so that I didn't have to put in so much effort just to have a half normal life.
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As little is working for you i'm just posting this as i am wondering if you may be able to get some help from researchers at the Uni. Or that they may be able to point you in some direction.
http://www.exeter.ac.uk/mooddisorders/
Gangan X
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Thanks Gangan, I live in South Devon so Exeter is just up the road for me - will definitely look into it . (By the way, Gangan is what we called my maternal Grandmother as my eldest brother couldn't say granny!)x
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I like Gangan's suggestion a lot.
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Hi racjen
So sorry to hear about how you've been feeling. I can't add any particular words of advice but just to say I hope you are feeling better today. If you can possibly do so - keep up with that exercise and fresh air - sounds wonderfully therapeutic!
Hurdity x :bighug:
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Running and dancing are the only things that keep me (vaguely) sane. Yes to exercise! x
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Have only just seen this racjen. I have been exactly where you are now and I completely get how despairing and desperate you are feeling right now. But it always passed in time. And this will pass for you. It will, I promise.
Patches didn't work for me. The only thing which has worked is a consistently high dose of 4 pumps of oestrogen. And even that took months to work fully.
Prof Studd explained to me that every woman needs a different balance of hormones to feel okay. Some women are fine with a pmol of only 250, others feel suicidal at that level (me) and need a pmol of over 800.
I follow Dr Louise News on on Instagram and she has just opened a private menopause clinic in the Midlands. She totally gets what women are suffering with. Maybe you could get an appt there?
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Thanks GRL, have been feeling slightly better today and yesterday,but only because I persuaded my GP that going up a step onto lorazepam was a better option than taking an overdose. So I have limited relief from the crippling anxiety for now, but I know it won't last long. I've battled for a year to get my GP to refer me to an NHS menopause clinic (Poole) and I finally have that appointment coming up in a couple of weeks time. So will see if anything comes out of that. If not I'll consider Louise Newsom, although it's a long way to go from Devon and a huge outlay of my precious savings (I've now lost my job due to all this and have no partner or family to support me, so money has become a huge issue). Good to know you found a solution in the end though xxx
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Racjen,
I'm glad they let you step up your dose and you are feeling a bit better. Definitely better to do that then the other option you mentioned for sure! I hope that the appointment at the meno clinic gives you some solutions!
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Thanks for all the advice. One of my biggest problems is that I can't tolerate any ADs at all - have tried 8 or 9 different ones from different classes, and all make me suicidally depressed within days. I am also seriously testosterone deficient, but after a week on that I was again suicidally depressed. My cortisol level was checked a few months ago and it was normal, so that one seems to be a dead end too.
All this is why I say I feel like there's just something wrong with my brain that means that nothing works the way it should. There's clearly some missing piece of the jigsaw at the moment. The only things that work to blast the anxiety and depression out of my system are cold water swimming, and really strenuous exercise. So this morning at 9am I was swimming in the River Dart in the rain, not most people's idea of a relaxing Sunday morning, but it transformed my mood from yesterday when I literally couldn't get out of bed. And I have a rigorous program of Kundaluini yoga (much harder work than any yoga I've done before) and Zumba classes during the week. I know it's all good for my health in general, but it's bloody knackering having to do this stuff just to keep going, and I wish there was more understanding of how the brain works so that I didn't have to put in so much effort just to have a half normal life.
Sounds testosterone linked
Exercise does increase testosterone levels the more aggressive the better.
How frustrating you cannot tolerate testosterone
All Types of Exercise Count. Endurance training and resistance training (such as weight lifting) both boost testosterone levels briefly, Schroeder says. Lifting weights or doing other strength-training workouts has a bigger effect on your testosterone, Schroeder says.6 May 2015
Is there not a body identical version, I wonder.
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That's really interesting Roseenglish, and makes perfect sense. I've suspected for ages that it was testosterone that was the main problem, my levels are so low I have pretty much no leg or under-arm hair at all (quite convenient really!) and when I did tolerate it for just a few days my mood, energy and anxiety all improved and my libido absolutely hit the roof! Then it all stopped and I got my usual depressive reaction instead - so frustrating. Wonder if there's anyone out there who specilaises in T levels in women.....
Just done some research and it turns out that cold-water swimming, which I've found really helpful, also increases your testosterone level. It's all making sense - now just have to find a way of taking the damn stuff :)
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Not the pond water :o :o .......... ;)
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Uuuuurgh no, I'm lucky enough to live on the edge of Dartmoor, so I have lovely clean alive water bubbling down from the moor just 10 mins drive away. Or if I want to swim in the sea it's only half an hour to some beautiful beaches. Wouldn't want to live anywhere else....
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I love Devon.
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Cases packed, on my way ;D - nope, it's raining outside ;)
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Only snag is, it's bloody expensive - I've lived and worked here for 10 years but there's no way I could afford to buy a house here. Too many second homes, holiday cottages and wealthy landowners....
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Uuuuurgh no, I'm lucky enough to live on the edge of Dartmoor, so I have lovely clean alive water bubbling down from the moor just 10 mins drive away.
When we first moved down here my husband worked for SWW doing outside fish surveys. His advice is to make sure that you have no cuts when swimming because of Weil's disease.
Gangan
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...... from rats' urine :o. The whole of one ambulance and fire crew, plus any medics involved, had to have injections following an incident in deep water ........
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Why is everyone so terrified of outdoor swimming? I've been doing it regularly for the 10 years I've lived here and I've had no problems whatsoever, and haven't heard of anyone else in the community who has either. I'd have thought a regular dose of chlorine would be far worse for you than some tiny risk of getting Weil's disease. It may not appeal to you, but there's a huge community of people doing it and really feeling the benefits.
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I'm OK outside when it's hot, i.e. Lake Lugano ;D although that's been closed since I was there. Don't *think* it was my fault ::)
I like to see the bottom and if it's sandy loved it as a child. Near Thetford Forest ......