Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Scottishgirl on November 03, 2018, 06:58:14 AM
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Hello everyone. I'm back, haven't posted for a while because of dealing with various things. I posted about vaginal atrophy, which is making my life an utter misery. I have had 2 major bowel operations, as some of you will know, but I honestly think this is worse. The vagifem I use is just not working now, and my GP said that's the go to treatment, other than full hrt. He has referred me to a gynaecologist, but I'm not at all hopeful she could help me. Anything new out there that anyone has had success with?
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Hi Scottishgirl, welcome back. Sorry to hear about your ongoing problems with VA, it's rotten. How much Vagifem are you using at the moment?
JP x
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Adding in full systemic HRT might be your next strategy. I assume you are doing the all the self help strategies e.g. no scented soaps, no tight trousers, no fruit juice, caffeine or alcohol but drinking lots of water and following a healthy diet and exercise regime.
What symptoms are you getting? Is it UTI typessymptoms - so burning urethra and feeling you need to pee a lot?
Are you sore and itchy generally?
Being very gentle to your lady bits and using vaginal moisturisers alongside the Vagifem is very important. Some use Vagifem nightly or at least every other night. IF I'm feeling itchy I know the vaginal flora balance is off, so I use Multi Gyn Actigel to get things back to the slightly acidic environment that stops bacteria and thrush developing.
It's a matter of constantly managing everything I'm afraid. DG x
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Hi Joanipat. I'm using them about 3 times a week at the moment. I'm not sure if they are causing more burning or if I would have it anyway. The burning is very bad.
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Hi Dancinggirl. The main symptoms are bad burning , vaginal soreness and general pain and discomfort. It's awful. The vagifem isn't doing a thing , unfortunately.
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You are probably not using enough of the product. Years ago it was prescribed at 25 and now it's 10. Some ladies have to use it nightly and occasionally, two doses are required.
Your GP is wrong. There are other medications and ointments to use to keep the whole area moist and supple. I have success with Ovestin and on the outer labia use KY Jelly or Vaseline. Often. Several times a day. The trick is to keep it moist and not to allow skin to dry out.
As oestrogen levels drop skin may become dry: inside and out; nostrils, deep in the ears, overall skin, vagina ........
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I would try using every night to see if that improves things until you see the gynae and then ask for Ovestin also for the soreness outside. If the burning still continues perhaps try the Ovestin inside instead of Vagifem. They both do the same job it's finding what suits you best. Also try the different moisturisors, YES and Sylk are very popular.
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CLKD yes I will start using it every night again I think . And I agree, I think gp's don't know enough, to his credit I think that's why he is sending me to an expert. I don't have any outside soreness just dryness. The burning and soreness is all inside. Horrible .
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Deirdre I will try using it every night again. I don't have soreness outside, just dryness. All burning pain is inside, and while I'm weeing, and afterwards. It's not a uti either. It's there all the time now. So unpleasant. Worse than any of my surgeries.
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Try positioning the tablet lower down on the bladder wall, aim for the pubic bone rather than high inside, I find this sorts the bladder and lower bits. The Ovestin helps around just inside the entrance and the urethra also.
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Good idea Deirdrie. I'll try that.
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Scottishgirl, I agree with the others, use the Vagifem every night and try inserting lower down. You could even insert two now and then, one high up and the other half way. Try inserting a bit of Multigyn Actigel in the morning, a couple of times a week, or more often if you like. Shove a bit up the vagina on the end of your finger. It stings a bit at first but that wears off. There is also a vaginal ring, the Estring, which delivers a steady dose of estradiol. It gives 7.5 mcg over 24 hours, so a bit less than nightly Vagifem but I top mine up with a pessary twice a week. The ring lasts about two months.
JP x
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Yes I will do that Joaniepat. I will ask the gynaecologist when I see her about the Estring etc when I see her. I am truly desperate.
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I hate it because with my health anxiety and these extreme symptoms, I always think , surely something sinister is wrong. But there Are lots of us with this, and I have got to remember that. It is life changing though. It's seriously worse than my bowel surgeries . I've healed from them, but this just seem so permanent.
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Scottisggirl.
Feeling stressed and anxious can make these symptoms worse as it makes us clench that intimate area - try lying down and totally relax your pelvic floor.
Are you using vaginal moisturisers? SYLk or the Yes products are the best.
It does sound to me as though your flora balance is perhaps not right - so have you tried Multi Gyn Actigel? The Multi Gyn can sting a bit at first but I find it does sooth after that.
Drinking enough water is also vital.
Do let air get your intimate area as much as possible - don't wear pyjama bottoms at night and try wearing loose trousers or skirts during the day. Don't sit for too long either.
DG x
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Yep, have been doing all the right things. I follow them religiously. Thanks for the support. This is such a wonderful reassuring forum .
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Thanks sparkle. I have heard of this. Is that the one you have to get online? It's not available here in Australia over the counter . I would try it for sure.
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I have read that vitamin E ( the oil squeezed out of the capsule, is a good natural moisturiser. I read it on a research paper a medical group was doing. No shonky website selling something. I hate them. It was genuine with no affiliations. I'm trying it out .
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Hope you've got it sorted by now. Just thought I'd tell you what's worked for me as I had the same problem with the Vagifem. I was using it daily in the end and still got vaginitis. I was sent to the hospital with a suspected prolapse - fortunately not - but they did tell me my atrophy is very low down the vagina so Vagifem was not having much effect. I was given estriol cream which I can place lower down more easily and it's worked. I only use it twice a week internally - bit more often outside sometimes - and have had no problems since, after a year struggling with Vagifem and getting progressively worse.
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Thanks Otter15. I have had nearly a week of being reasonably comfortable. That happens sometimes, but it always comes back . But it's so great to have a break from it for a while! I asked my doc about estriol and he said it did the same as vagifem, but he gave me a referral to a gynaecologist, because he said she would know more about it, which is true. I'll get more information from her. But I honestly think it's even beyond their powers to be honest. It's a miserable condition to be sure.
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It definitely is - so debilitating and made worse by doctors either not knowing much about it or not taking it seriously. That's why this site is so important - I've had more information and help from here than anywhere else. Hope your appointment gets you the help you need.
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Vagifem contains estradiol, and Ovestin and the generic estriol cream both contain estriol (obviously!!), so they are different types of oestrogen hormones. I wonder if that makes a difference? Otter15, are you using the weaker, generic estriol cream? I seem to have become allergic to Ovestin as it now makes me itch like crazy and makes the external soreness worse.
Scottishgirl, I know how you feel, that is exactly what happens to me. A few days of feeling OK then back to square one.
JP x
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Hi Joaniepat. Yes, I'm using the ovestin cream and it really has helped. I've only been using it for a couple of months. It's working both inside and out so far. Hope there's an alternative if I develop an allergy! Have you been using it for long? I'll have to research the estradiol and estriol differences. Do they have different effects/can you need one rather than the other?? :-\
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They both do the same job - estriol and oestrogen - re vaginal atrophy. They mainly bind to different receptors. The preference is usually whether one wants to apply a cream which is messier but more lubricating or a tablet which sticks to the vaginal walls. Also whether women are sensitive to one or the other. Some prefer to use Vagifem internally and then estriol cream for the external area and vag entrance. For the latter it's probably better to have estriol as you can use it in larger quantities ie as a moisturising cream as well as providing oestrogen as well. The dose of Ovestin is much smaller as it is much stronger.
Hurdity x
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Thanks for the explanation. Maybe it's the lubrication that is more helpful for me.
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Thank you Hurdity and Otter15. Perhaps I'll try the generic estriol for the outside, even though one needs more of it. At least the fillers are different from Ovestin.
JP x
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Vagifem contains estradiol, and Ovestin and the generic estriol cream both contain estriol (obviously!!), so they are different types of oestrogen hormones. I wonder if that makes a difference? Otter15, are you using the weaker, generic estriol cream? I seem to have become allergic to Ovestin as it now makes me itch like crazy and makes the external soreness worse.
Scottishgirl, I know how you feel, that is exactly what happens to me. A few days of feeling OK then back to square one.
JP x
I had a bad reaction to Estriol cream. It (the filler) really irritated me inside and I was going to and fro from the bathroom all night. I could try using some externally though (since I still have an unopened tube).