Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Salad on June 19, 2018, 01:13:59 PM
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As with a lot of us - my menopause journey never fails to surprise me.
I am under the care of a Menopause Clinic and I am using Estradot 200 mcg patches three times a week - my blood result is back from Friday, with a level of 96 pmol/l.
How does that even happen!!
My previous one in February was 710 pmol/l.
To add to my problems I am now piggy-in-the-middle having seen a Rheumatologist on Saturday, who has diagnosed me with Psoriatic Arthritis. She is writing to my Menopause Consultant to tell him to stop my HRT as I have had a breast lump in the past and she is worried about my breast cancer risk - talk about 'clash of the Consultants'.
Anyone want to come with me? ;D
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The risk is what exactly? Remind me; how many years ago and what was the lump ?
She is a Rheumatologist not an Oncologist :cuss:. I had a lump removed that was oestrogen dominant but I would risk recurrence if I required relief !!!
Will I crank up the charabanc ? :-\
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She really was not an HRT advocate that's for sure :D
I had a fibroadenoma removed in 2013 and the breast Surgeon knew I'd just started HRT.
My thoughts now are if my Oestrogen level is that low perhaps I haven't got Psoriatic Arthritis after all and maybe the joint and tendon pain and fatigue is menopause related again.
Guess I wait to see what the Menopause Clinic say
Ding ding - round 1!
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Salad - are you the lady who was potentially diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?
Have you tried Oestrogel?
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Hi Dotty
Yes - she ruled out CFS (or fibromyalgia) for Psoriatic Arthritis.
And I have tried Oestrogel for about 18 months - I had to change to patches as I absorbed the gel too quickly and had really unstable symptoms and a level of 2300 with that!!
So confused :-\
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Hi Salad I thought I'd spoken to you before about CFS.
Sorry to hear that you're no further on with your menopausal problems.
Hope you get some answers x
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Hi Salad I thought I'd spoken to you before about CFS.
Sorry to hear that you're no further on with your menopausal problems.
Hope you get some answers x
Thanks Dotty :)
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Hello Salad,
I also have a Psoriatic Arthritis diagnosis and don't know if I can rely on that. What are your symptoms?
Conolly X
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Hello Salad,
I also have a Psoriatic Arthritis diagnosis and don't know if I can rely on that. What are your symptoms?
Conolly X
Really painful - finger on each hand wrists, elbows, knees, a bit in my shoulder plus neck/back issues over the years.
This has been transient over the last 5 years, up until the last month.
Severe fatigue, disturbed sleep and generally feeling rubbish. Plus other symptoms thrown in along the way.
My dad had severe Psoriatic Arthritis
so there is a genetic link despite me not having psoriasis (yet).
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Thank you, Salad. Pretty much the same symptoms, but I had Psoriasis a long time ago and not a single case in the family. Go figure!
Conolly X
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Could it be that the patches are making you absorb so much that's its overriding your own oestrogen, thus making it plummet? Like with how the pill (or 4 pumps of Oestrogel) overrides the cycle so lowers your own oestrogen to keep fluctuations at bay.
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Oestrogen would never be that low on a suppressed cycle due to high oestrogen - the whole point about high oestrogen doses suppressing ovulation is that they give you sufficient and consistent oestrogen dose from the exogenous source - in Salad's case - the patch.
Even if you are still having a cycle it is very odd to have a result that low if it is accurate that is.
I had a fibroadenoma when young - no treatment, and have had lumpy breasts together with several bouts of mastitis when feeding my babies - and never has anything ever been said to me about HRT - presumably because the breast problems were when I was still fertile and well before menopause.
This is not a contra-indication to HRT!
I don't know what to suggest but you must be getting very frustrated with the medical profession!
Hurdity x
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Oestrogen would never be that low on a suppressed cycle due to high oestrogen - the whole point about high oestrogen doses suppressing ovulation is that they give you sufficient and consistent oestrogen dose from the exogenous source - in Salad's case - the patch.
Even if you are still having a cycle it is very odd to have a result that low if it is accurate that is.
I had a fibroadenoma when young - no treatment, and have had lumpy breasts together with several bouts of mastitis when feeding my babies - and never has anything ever been said to me about HRT - presumably because the breast problems were when I was still fertile and well before menopause.
This is not a contra-indication to HRT!
I don't know what to suggest but you must be getting very frustrated with the medical profession!
Hurdity x
I'm not sure if I'm more frustrated with the Medical Profession or my body doing weird stuff.
An update though : I've done some some reading this evening and maybe me supplementing Vitamin D has lowered the Oestrogen.
Just to complicate things :)
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You have my sympathies Salad. Notwithstanding the diagnosis of Psoriatc arthritis, low oestrogen could also give you joint pain and fatigue. I do remember (having looked back at your earlier posts) that you did have problems with the gel and very high levels - with potential tachphyllaxis, so it is strange that they are so low now despite high oestrogen being applied. In your position I would just ask for another blood tests just to check and if it is low - then back to the menopause specialist I presume is the only way forward - when is your visit?
I haven't come across that about Vitamin D supplementation - do you have a link please as I would be interested to read more.
All the best :)
Hurdity x
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The jury is actually out on the vitamin D connection, Salad.
But what I can tell you from personal experience is that I experienced more hot flushes per day when I started supplementing last year via my GP, and therefore had to stop the supplementation as it wasn't copeable.
There is also anecdotal evidence elsewhere from other women on the internet of this happening. xxxx
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http://healthandscience.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1018:vitamin-d-lowers-estrogen-levels-and-your-risk-of-breast-cancer-us&catid=20&Itemid=374&lang=us
I'm not really IT literate so not sure if this has worked but this is the type of article coming up in my reading.
I'm back at the Menopause Clinic in 29th June so I'll see what they say - I like to keep them on their toes :)
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Well, that's really interesting Salad :o. I have high (supplemented) levels of Vitamin D and my estradiol levels were only 100 pmol on Estradot 100. Will be interesting to see what my levels are on Oestrogel when I next get tested!
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A very informative link about the Vit D breast cancer (other diseases too} connection. A lot of research on this with the same conclusions
https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2016/vitamin-d-metastasis
I take quite a high supplement of Vit D3 and have not noticed it causing hot flushes, I do take it a few days a week but not every day. My diet includes recommended food too.
If I do get a feeling of warmth in my face once in a while its due to stress, eating something sweet or a histamine response eating foods I am sensitive too.
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Very interesting links and subject area - sounds like a whole lot more research work is urgently needed - but highlights the importance once agaibn of vitamin D - and the best way to get this is through your skin - so get out there in the sunlught without sunscreen ( at a time of day and duration suitable for your skin type) and get topped up!! Eat lots of fish!
Sorry Salad I'm digressing but I would like to read more about that issue - I looked at the study and seemed to be carried out in women who had excess fat or were obese? Would be interested to know more and when I have more time (dakr days of winter!) will read more!
Hurdity x
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There does certainly seem to be a rethink about the optimal levels for Vitamin D that's for sure. Glad I've got mine up, now to sort out my Oestrogen :D
I'd be really interested to know what levels you post menopausal ladies are feeling well on?
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Mine have only occasionally been measured - last time a few years ago they were 212 pmol/l and I felt fine. I have increased my dose since then by 12.5 mcg to 62.5 mcg so I expect they are a bit higher - but not by much so probably somewhere in the 200s?
Hurdity x
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Mine have only occasionally been measured - last time a few years ago they were 212 pmol/l and I felt fine. I have increased my dose since then by 12.5 mcg to 62.5 mcg so I expect they are a bit higher - but not by much so probably somewhere in the 200s?
Hurdity x
Thank you Hurdity - I do want to see if I can reduce my current HRT dose but will have to get my Oestrogen level up first.
I'm on a lower Vitamin D dose now though so I think it should even itself out.
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Adding more to your link Salad there have been quite substantial trials proving the link between vitamin D and breast cancer. I am convinced personally and will continue with supplement. Can't add anymore to the theory of Vit d3 contributing to flushes though.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0199265
Relying on sun exposition for adequate levels seem to based on the latitude of the sun, not bathing within four hours of exposure and amount of sun protection used.
Sorry if I am being boring but Vit D and its interaction with health is something i have been interested in for a long time.
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Adding more to your link Salad there have been quite substantial trials proving the link between vitamin D and breast cancer. I am convinced personally and will continue with supplement. Can't add anymore to the theory of Vit d3 contributing to flushes though.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0199265
Relying on sun exposition for adequate levels seem to based on the latitude of the sun, not bathing within four hours of exposure and amount of sun protection used.
Sorry if I am being boring but Vit D and its interaction with health is something i have been interested in for a long time.
You're certainly not boring me tika :D - I'm known as the 'Vitamin D oracle' at work as I've read up so much about it and it's co-factors to correct my deficiency. Do you take Magnesium and K2 too?
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Yes I take the full quota of vitamins and minerals and added supplements too, maybe the reason I am OK and well post menopause.
It can be a moot point with others but it works for me, we all find our own way as it should be. x
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Hi salad, that's a very interesting article and useful one for me as someone who had BC, I was on high levels of estrogen on and off for quite a few years but will never know if it sparked my BC, I don't smoke or take alcohol, eat well and no family history. I will certainly be looking into vit D!! so thanks for that!!!!