Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: Daisydot on June 14, 2018, 12:16:46 PM
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I'm just wondering if we have any para legals or lawyers on here who can draft a standard template letter for the ladies here who are having such horrendous problems with GPS surgeries.Refusing them lifesaving items like inhalers or epipipens or life support items like hrt because they think they are so godlike they are punch drunk on having that little bit of power over people's lives.
You know what I mean like Martin Lewis website they have huge sucess with taking on beurocratic pen pushers by providing template letters to assist the ordinary consumer because that's what we are at the end of the day " consumers".
It just gives people a chance to respond instead of feeling so deflated and defeated when at such a low ebb. Come on guys do your bit to help.if your a proffesional on here then your a fellow sufferer or you know someone who can help then be a compassionate indivudual and give something back.xx
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Ask Dr Currie for advice? I think that she should be contacting any Member who has problems as stated here and then sending up-2-date advice to those GPs 'named and shamed'!!!
Anyone who doesn't have a legal background or money behind them doesn't have an ice-cream's chance in hell of getting anywhere.
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Firstly i actually deleted this post clkd so that's very strange it's reappeared.
Secondly the only advice Dr Currie has ever given me 're uncooperative GPS is to change your gp.Thats alright in theory but it doesent address the problem does it.We like to bleat on here about bucking the system to help other ladies but if we continually move on how's that helping anyone.Im going nowhere now because I have nowhere left to go so it's that old scenario of cornering the rat isn't it do it often enough and they'll bite back.All that needs to be done is choose an area then run an updated course with the partners from local surgeries being mandated to attend or it will be reflected in their funding.job done.why is it so difficult to put this in motion.If anyone wishes to complain about their practices now I've showed how to by following the advice I gave to Annie.thats why I deleted this original post you don't actually need any legal knowledge I had just hoped someone would bite.xx
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Hi Hasty unfortunately as I've said here before you can shove all the pieces of paper you want at these Gps but you cant force them to read or even acknowledge them they just got pushed straight back at me.
You must go through official complaints procedures to get anywhere.
When I initially complained to the practice manager and when I continued to call their bluffs they backtracked and covered their arses well by saying in an email they had now complied with everything my consultant and I had asked for and had put my meds on repeat.which they actually haven't I have to specifically request them and I get them sometimes but not always.they also said they were concerned at my financial stress and that's why they suggested referring to nhs gynie.that in no way related to the conversations we'd had in the surgery where I was told I shouldn't be on any hrt at my age despite my meno expert saying on the contrary and they would only discuss if I went to a gynie of their choosing.I reminded them of this in my response to their email and refused the referral as i had a meno expert not a gynie.they now know that I will respond to any more obstacles from them by going to the GMC and making a formal complaint which they don't need.We have no other way of fighting this if they won't stick to the rules then neither will I.When I get home I will continue my battles with them and no doubt my stress levels will increase but long shot is I'm getting there slow but sure i refuse to be bullied.
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I argued the NICE guidelines at this gp whilst in his office for that hour. He replied they're guidelines, not rules. I couldn't answer back on that one
The gynae who wrote to my old gp ‘suggested' ‘trying' testosterone, this gp picked up on she wasn't ‘instructing' a gp to prescribe it ! X
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I am quite new to this site and have read loads of posts about difficulty in obtaining treatment, usually cantankerous GP's. I guess i am lucky as at the moment my gp's are compliant-lol-.
What I don't get is what is the problem. HRT is not , in the scheme of things expensive at all. In fact the one i take is about £6.50 a box and i pay £18 prescription charge!, but even the so called expensive ones are really not, when you think abut what it prevents.
What is it all about...... imdespair, but in my experience complaining usually= closed ranks, but going to the media on the other hand..... just a thought- no one likes external scrutiny and bad publicit!
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I think this my gp thinks my hrt is going to kill me off early. I said at least I'll hsve enjoyed my life, he didn't share my humour x
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What's happening here Annie us they're playing with words probably as instructed by their legal departments.
My meno specialist put on his report he recommended I start testosterone now and he's aware it's off licence but he would be happy to do this and continue to prescribe it for me and this gp jumped on this and said see" he will prescribe" not us.
What you have to now ladies when you go to any private meno consultant is ask them to request your gp to prescribe their recommendations on the nhs when they send their report with recommendations.play them at their own bloody games.My previous gp looked at me in disgust when I showed him Dr Curries private email with recommendations and said to me who is this woman anyway ive never heard of her and refused me the treatment.this was way back when I first started trying to get help.Its been a long long battle of wits for me and I'm getting better at it and refuse to lie down to their poor judgements.I have 8 other females in my immediate family and I won't see them suffer like this.
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Is there not a body that regulates GPs like there is for the social care sector or the energy industry ?
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Yes actually there is Tiddles the CQC is responsible for regulating them.I was hoping someone with some knowledge of the system would come on and offer some advice but obviously not as yet.We will have to just rely on advising each other using due process and any experience we have.
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It's so upsetting and infuriating and just not what we should be experiencing in 2018. I really feel for you and on a selfish note am so worried about having to change GP next year when we move, given the battles I had to go through with the current GP to get HRT. xxx
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Thank god for MM and the people on here.
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There was a thread recently discussing NICE and rights etc here:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,39957.msg634106.html#msg634106
I also did a post on that thread with what I could find which I will quote here:
I also looked up the NHS website about our rights to a specific treatment and it is a bit vague - here is the link:
https://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1317.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=154
Here is the relevant extract:
Your GP doesn't have to prescribe a particular medication or treatment for you if they think it's not the right option. You're entitled to ask for their reasons for the decision.
You're also entitled to make a suggestion and explain to your GP why you believe a certain medication or treatment is a good option.
Remember that:
some types of treatment aren't available on the NHS
you need a referral from your GP to have some types of treatment on the NHS, such as cosmetic surgery
Second opinion
If you're not satisfied with your GP's advice, you may want to consider getting a second opinion. Although you're not legally entitled to a second opinion, a healthcare professional will rarely refuse to refer you.
You may feel happier with a different GP, but be aware they may give you the same advice.
It also says this:
NICE and NHS medicines and treatments
The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) regularly looks at new medication and treatments to assess whether they:
are safe
are more or less effective than other medication or treatments
represent value for money by assessing how well a medication or treatment works in relation to its cost
NICE will not automatically reject a medication or treatment because it's expensive. NICE recognises that something can be both expensive and represent good value for money.
The NHS in England and Wales is legally obliged to fund medicines and treatments NICE recommends.
This means that when NICE recommends a medicine or treatment, the NHS must ensure it's available to those people it could help, normally within three months of the guidance being issued.
So, if your doctor thinks a medicine or treatment recommended by NICE is right for you, you should be able to get it on the NHS.
It does not mention formularies - as presumably these are as seen above, local recommendations.
A few years ago there was a press article quoting the then Chairman of NICE and saying we should be more pushy re medication. This was in 2014 and I'm not sure how things have changed since then but might be worth having a read:
https://menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24333.msg371939.html#msg371939
I'll just re-post the relevant bit from the above thread 9 from 2014):
Here is a recent article by the Chairman of NICE ( National Institute of Health and Care Excellence) who says patients (sadly) need to be more pushy with their doctors (difficult when you are feeling hormonal)!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/nhs/10595806/NHS-patients-should-be-pushy-with-GPs-about-treatment-and-drugs-says-health-chief.html
In it he says this:
"Patients should adopt “American†attitudes and be more pushy with their doctors about drugs to which they are entitled, the head of the NHS rationing body has said.
Professor David Haslam, chairman of the National Institute of Health and Care Excellence (NICE), said British patients should become more assertive and see themselves as “equal partners†with their doctors, with legal rights.
He said patients in this country needed to learn from the Americans, who are far more confident about entering into dialogue with family doctors about their health, and taking an active role in managing their health.
Prof Haslam said too many patients were not being offered medications approved by NICE – and should learn more about their conditions and ask for drugs which should be prescribed for them.
In an interview with The Telegraph, he said: “When products have been approved for use by the NHS by Nice, patients have a legal right to those drugs - as long as they are clinically appropriate. The take-up should be much higher than it currently is." ...... "
For example: Utrogestan is the only body-identical progesterone licensed for HRT - and I would suggest you have a right only to use body-identical products should you so wish - rather than only being able to get these via expensive and unregulated compounding pharmacies.
I'm not sure where you would stand in terms of rights when asking for example for Estradot over Evorel patches or gel over patches ( if you are not allergic to patches), or Sandrena over oestrogel etc?
Re tesosterone - since there is no licensed product available for women I imagine there is no obilgation for any GP to prescribe it on NHS or at all despite what a private consultant muight say - this is probably the luck of the draw and based on individual GP willingness to prescribe off-licence.
You probably have a right to ask for a referral on NHS though under certain circumstances ( if your GP has insufficient knowledge and experience and in which case if an NHS gynae prescribes it off-licence the GP should follow suit?
Take from that what you can!
CLKD that is not Dr Currie's role - to intervene in specific cases. It doesn't say that anywhere on the website. The only thing we can do is to pay for specific advice for £25 as Daisydot has done and unfortunately the GP is under no obligation to follow it. That the GP had not heard of Dr Currie/this website and is treating menopause speaks volumes - sadly.
As Hasty says - the starting point is to quote the NICE Guidelines but if a GP refuses to follow them.... hmm I would suggest a complaint is in order!!!
Hurdity x
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Thank you Hurdity x
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Hi,look up your clinical commissioning group guidelines in your are..i live in Essex and searched there site...they stated they prescribe oestrogel and urogeston as the .third alternative HRT to tablets first,patches second . Tablets not advised due to my medical history and patches fell off due to hot sweats lol,so only option was gel .!! Hope this works
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I disagree: everyone is entitled to a 2nd opinion - for example I didn't like the particular gynaecologist that I was referred to so asked my GP for an appt. to someone else [who wasn't much better but at least didn't grunt at me :-\]. 3rd and 4th opinions one may have to pay for.
When I had my cancer treatment my GP referred me to the Consultant and from then on, the relevant Depts. met for 'case reviews' which was like getting 2nd/3rd/4th opinions all in one meeting. The advice was then relayed to me and DH at the next appt.. Saved time over-all as they would discuss several patients at a time.
Maybe jot a letter to your Solicitor Daisydot and ask the question? Taking on the Medical Profession is a non-starter really.
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Secondly the only advice Dr Currie has ever given me 're uncooperative GPS is to change your gp.Thats alright in theory but it doesent address the problem does it.We like to bleat on here about bucking the system to help other ladies but if we continually move on how's that helping anyone.
Why does that not surprise me :-\ :'( ......... if we don't have the backing from MM and if MM aren't taking note of which GPs are anti-HRT etc., even when it is recommended by a Consultant, there really isn't much hope :-X
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You can disagree all you want clkd ,and I don't mean that in an offensive way. But sadly if they close ranks and decide your not getting that referral or getting that 2nd opinion other than going down the lengthy official route theres zilch we can do unless we are prepared to pay privately.Dr Currie can't realistically intervene same as another gp can't intervene from say your previous practice and this is what frustrates people, the inconsistencies practice to practice are hard to get your head around and we have to, as individuals ,be prepared to do battle ourselves with these arsey Gps who refuse to comply with nice "Guidelines" remember that's what they are they're not set in stone and they also choose to ignore the recommendations of private consultants.its like we have personally attacked them for daring to go private.I know you mean well with your suggestions but the reality MM is quite simply a very good platform that enables us to share our advice and viewpoints but it's not here to fight any battles we have that's down to us to seek out that help elsewhere.xx
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Secondly the only advice Dr Currie has ever given me 're uncooperative GPS is to change your gp.Thats alright in theory but it doesent address the problem does it.We like to bleat on here about bucking the system to help other ladies but if we continually move on how's that helping anyone.
Why does that not surprise me :-\ :'( ......... if we don't have the backing from MM and if MM aren't taking note of which GPs are anti-HRT etc., even when it is recommended by a Consultant, there really isn't much hope :-X
Why are you always running down this website and forum CLKD? Here is what I said in my earlier post:
"CLKD that is not Dr Currie's role - to intervene in specific cases. It doesn't say that anywhere on the website. The only thing we can do is to pay for specific advice for £25 as Daisydot has done and unfortunately the GP is under no obligation to follow it. That the GP had not heard of Dr Currie/this website and is treating menopause speaks volumes - sadly."
This forum is the chat part of the main website the purpose of which (main site) is to educate and inform. Nothing more nothing less. We are here to talk, chat support and inform each other with additional information, and personal experience. Dr Currie manages the main part of the website and the information on it.
As Daisydot says - it's a very good platform, and we can help each other to fight our own battles by giving each other encouragement and information.
The BMS and many leading gynaes - Dr Currie Dr Louise Newson and others are doing an amazing job in educating GPs from the top down by running course, seminars and conferences - but any changes will of course take some time as there must be thousands of GPs out there?
As I've said several times before we can help to make changes lilttle bit by little bit from the bottom up and I am encouraged by every woman who has managed to get the appropriate help she needs from her GP as a result of posting on this forum, when this was previously denied.
Let's have some optimism and hope?!!!
Hurdity x
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Stop picking on me Hurdity, you know how I feel no need to repeat yourself. I am not running down the site but unless someone with knowledge takes on board that GPs are refusing appropriate treatment for any speciality as this isn't specific to menopause problems, patients will continue to suffer. So as Dr Currie runs this site and has experience then someone suffering needs somewhere definitive to turn to. The site isn't enough as the message simply isn't getting through.
If Dr Currie doesn't want to take these problems on board maybe she can suggest to Members which organisation we *can* approach!
A GP should continue with prescriptions when new patients register, not stop treatment and as patients have a choice of which Consultant they can see, I find it difficult to comprehend that a GP would insist on a Consultant B4 prescribing?!? Seems to me that there may be the situation where a GP refers to a Consultant with the prior knowledge that medication won't be suggested. Call me a cynic, moi?
Tnx Tempest.
Patients should not have to fight for what they require. Particularly when a treatment has been prescribed and works for the individual. That's why Medical Records are passed over [unlike dental records] - it is supposed to save NHS time.
If the various clinicians involved daily with menopausal women for example, then it should be up to NICE to be more insistent on what can be prescribed, so that GPs are more aware - that's from the top down surely? I would like to see the 'amazing job' - because from comments made on here, the message isn't getting through. As an aside, less Drs are choosing to be GPs too so in a few years time ........ there is already a gap because those who 'trained' when I was in the NHS are now retiring. Or leaving due to low morale and lack of support from the Government of the Day.
They seem to forget who is actually paying their wages!