Menopause Matters Forum
Menopause Discussion => All things menopause => Topic started by: LW44 on May 30, 2018, 03:22:02 PM
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Hi all
I Have posted a few times on here. I will just give you all a quick background update :-) i am 47 peri menopausal.. apparently.. been on oestrogen only for 3 years. I still have my womb.. as u can imagine consultant horrified.. i was put on oestrogen only by private consultant as progestrone intolerant..
Anyway today after running through my symptoms.. late periods weight gain hpt flushes on and off mood swings.. he has decided to start from scratch, by stopping my periods completely with the prostrap injection to find out exactly where i am in menopause and if in fact the mood swings are PMS made worse by the oestrogen i am taking.. it has been suggested i take tibrolone , livial? Alongside but he would prefer i dont take anuthing for a month or so.. they wanted to do it there and then.. i was horrified and said i need to have time to think about it.. due to go back on friday for it... so just looking for opinions and advice, as someone who has suffered postnatal depression and anxiety and low mood on and off over the years i am terrified... do i have the injection do i take the tibrolone? I have a extremely supportive husband and all in all very happy just struggle with mood swings on and off and i do want to get to the bottom of it and get back on some sort of even keel.. ps just read on here someone suffered psychosis after drop in hormones.. my worst fear... :-( xl
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Hi LW44
Firstly even those these forums are really good they can sometimes be a bit scary because you read that someone else got psychosis after a drop in hormones. Everyone is different & reacts in different ways to hormones going up & down so don't automatically assume it is you. Secondly I went to see DR Studd when I was in perimenopause & because his regime of oestrogel & utrogeston didn't work for me because I was progesterone intolerant he gave me an injection like what you were offered to shut down my ovaries & see how I would cope after a hysterectomy. I didn't get on with the injection at all & it gave me horrible side effects & I don't quite understand what your consultant hopes to achieve by doing this for you. Wouldn't it be better to try a different HRT with a separate progesterone given less frequently or the Mirena fitted.
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HI Paisley,
Thanks for yr reply :-) consultant wants to shut down my ovaries to find out if my symptoms are PMS or meno.. he said my body wont know where its at the moment and the continuous mood swings could be caused by the oestrogen i am taking fighting against my i
Own hormones.. so if he can decipher whats causing my probs he can treat accordingly.. thats why he woild rather i dont take the livial..tobolone xx
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Hi
If he shuts down your ovaries with the injection how is he going to find out what your own hormones are doing? Because when the ovaries are shut down the only way of making your own oestrogen will be from your fat cells or your adrenal glands. Wouldn't it be better to stop all HRT first & then see what your body is doing without the added HRT. I know women have the injection who have severe Pmd to see how their bodies would cope if they had a hysterectomy
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He said - something along the lines of - if we stop yr hormones and you suffer with just hot flushes we can work out if the mood swings are due to pms , if this makes sense xx
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I agree with Paisley LW. I can't understand how the injection will help determine where you are in your natural Meno. My daughter in law is on prostap injections due to severe endometriosis and she has real problems with the side effects, one of which is mood swings :-\
Let us know what you decide. Also, have you had a scan to make sure your womb lining' is ok?
Taz x 😊
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Hi Taz,
Yes had a scan recently all ok :-) it made sense as he was telling me.. think he was thinking if pms the injection will stop it.. feel confused now :-/ x
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I agree with what the others have said about this injection. I had chemotherapy for breast cancer 18 months ago and it shuts down your ovaries immediately so effectively the same thing - the problems I've had since then with depression and anxiety have been awful, so bad I haven't been able to work for 6 months and every day is a struggle. I'd avoid anything which puts your body through a sudden massive shock like this.
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LW44
Before you decide anything ask your consultant how is he going to find out your menopause status while you are on the injections? Because it is a big thing to shut down your ovaries & there can be side effects from this
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Hi All,
I will definately now.. i did say to him surely this will give me menopause symptoms.. which was when he sais he would give me the livial.. he said would stop the massive swings I have .. ahh its all so confusing.. i am even considering the mirena now.. even though cannot tolerate progesterone xx
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No I am sorry, I would get a 2nd opinion, it sounds pretty grim to me, and makes no sense. :o
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Hi lw44,who was your consultant,was it private or nhs? I'm due to see a man on 19th of June,I hope it's not the same one. I would definitely get a second opinion
Lisa x
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Hi Lisa,
NHS , im def not going to have it.. going to try the mirena and hrt.. he was questioning whether i was actually peri menopausal.. i said three years ago i was have hot flushes couldnt sleep periods all over the place.. and anxiety.. so i must be ! Ive just gone 4 months without a period.. xx
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Omg he sounds totally incompetent,it's a nightmare isn't it,my gps are clueless,that's why I'm paying to see mr Parsons privately,although he does do nhs as well. I have anxiety and terrible mood swings,also still having hot flushes. I hope u get yourself sorted out, it just seems such a drastic action,that could cause u more distress.let us know what u decide and how u get on. Take care
Lisa x
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Thanks Lisa
Can i just ask where are u upto in yr journey?xx
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I'm still trying to find the right balance, I think I'm still peri,have tried 4 different hrts but I think I need a higher dose to override my cycle,as I get really irritable and angry mid cycle and just before bleed. Last year I had 8 months off work due to anxiety and depression, the likes of which I had never known before,I felt like I was dying,and to be honest I wanted to,if it wasn't for my children,I wouldn't be here.but am stable now,just need to sort out the hormones
Lisa xx
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Sounds very similar to me.. thats why struggling.. something isnt right with them.. i am same up and down like a yoyo its exhausting.. please let me know how u get on xx
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I will do,u too. We're here to support each other. Take care
Lisa xx
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I get PMS even though I'm on sequi hrt. I would guess if the injections stops the PMS and you still get mood swings it will be perimenopause causing the problem. If the mood swings stop it could be PMS causing the issue and therefore you could treat by stopping your ovaries. It sounds like a methodical elimination process to me albeit if you are sensitive to side effects not a pleasant process.
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I would think that PMS and perimenopause are not separate standalone hormonal incidents.
PMS is more cyclically obvious when younger but that can then morph into perimenopause imbalance which lasts for more than a few days, as the imbalance spreads as volatility increases, so to speak.
Anything than can lower volatility will improve your symptoms.
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Hi Dangermouse,
That makes sense as my pms seems to last weeks rather than days, especially in the run up to my last period which was 17 weeks after my previous one, the other thing ive noticed is that boobs inflate and deflate constanstly, sometimes painful
I am now thinking i will have the mirena and take oesteogen alongside it... rather than have the prostrap injection xx
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I get PMS even though I'm on sequi hrt. I would guess if the injections stops the PMS and you still get mood swings it will be perimenopause causing the problem. If the mood swings stop it could be PMS causing the issue and therefore you could treat by stopping your ovaries. It sounds like a methodical elimination process to me albeit if you are sensitive to side effects not a pleasant process.
Yes think that was consultants line of thinking and elimination.. but i have decided a bit too drastic for me to handle and unfortunately sensitive to meds so i think it will floor me.. which i dont want or cant risk.. i am thinking of having the mirena for the progestrone (cannot tolerate tab form) alongside my normal oestrogen? Xx
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Hi there LW44
This sounds totally crazy to me.
Dangermouse is right - hormonal mood swings are hormonal mood swings. Some women get very severe pms - which is due 1) to the plunging oestrogen just after ovulation and then again just before the period and/or 2) the rapid reduction in progesterone just before the period and/or 3) progesterone intolerance itself - in which case for the whole of the 2nd half of the cycle. Some women are sensitive to all of these!!
In the late reproductive stage when periods are still more or less regular many women find pms worsens because hormones tend to fluctuate a bit more extremely. As you progress into peri-menopause and periods become more irregular the hormonal fluctuations can become huge - and all of these whether as pms or in peri-menopause have the same cause. I have read that some women also get problems from very high oestrogen levels during peri-menopause but I don't really understand this fully.
Have you seen this article about peri-menopause? https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/magazine/pdf/Article%20-%20Perils%20of%20the%20Perimenopause.pdf
As the others have said - if you have the injection - then no cycle, no oestrogen, no pms, and you are in chemical menopause. Some women do get hot flushes during late reproductive stage due to the rapid reduction in oestrogen from high to low at the end of the cycle (just before periods) which may be different from the hot flushes due to low oestrogen.
It sounds like your consultant is trying to conduct an academic exercise rather than treat a menopausal woman!!!
What dose of oestrogen have you been taking for 3 years?
I presume you are familiar with Studd regime and reproductive depression?
http://www.studd.co.uk/reproductivedepression.php
http://www.studd.co.uk/postnataldepression.php
Women who are still having pretty regular periods can be given very high doses of oestrogen to try to suppress the cycle, but are also given 7 days of extra progestogen to help shed the uterus lining. Once you get nearer to menopause this is probably insufficient progestogen for most women although can be done for progesterone intolerant women under medical supervision.
In your position I wouldn't have the injection - but depends whether you are coping or not. Livial (Tibolone) is a very low dose HRT so although you wouldn't have mood swings, you may well have side effects. Also it does contain a progestogen type element so maybe not a good idea if you are progesterone intolerant.
Another alternative is the new product Duavive - from horse oestrogens but the womb is protected through a spcial compound that only acts on the uterus so no progestogenic side effects so this is another possibility after the injection if you decided to go down this route. However the oestrogen dose is not very high so you still might suffer from low mood/hot flushes, and it doesn't contain testosterone which would be cut off sharply if your ovaries were shut down I think ( not sure about this....might be wrong about that).
Sorry I have ended up rambling out loud but hope some of it is helpful!
Hurdity x
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Hi Hurdity,
I have found it helpful thankyou :) i am due at the hospital this morning to for the injection which i am going to refuse. I am thinking along the lines of maybe the mirena coil and up my dose of continuous oestrogen to 2mg daily or continuous oestrogen 2mg and ultrogenson (spell) every three months - what are your thoughts on this? Xx
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Hi All
Well i went to my appt, the consultant wasnt there just a nurse to administer the Prostrap..
I told her i had decided not to have it she was lovely and we talked through my reasons why - history of anx and dep and very sensistive hormone wise.. at first she did say why are u having it? As dont suffer heavy bleeding etc..
She then said well u have appt with consultant in 2 weeks keep that and discuss diff options.
I explained longer gaps between periods now and mood swings seem worse.. anx low mood bad tempered.. which my husband very kindly confirmed lol.. he said i can go from 0 to 60 within mins.. then back down again as quick.. she said prob further into peri now.
Can anyone advise whether i should increase my oestrogen from 1mg to 2mg whilst i wait for appt? I feel like ive gone back to where i started 3 yrs ago at the beginning.. tearful anx low and blinking bad tempered xx
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Hi lw44,I'm so glad u didn't have the injection. Make sure u have a good knowledge before ur next appointment,so that u understand what he wants to prescribe u,or if u know what u want steer him in that direction. If I were u I would increase ur dose to 2mg while u r waiting. Keep us posted xx
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Me too had anx just thinking about it.. i know min it would have been injected i would have gone into meltdown..
Think i will increase i feel urrgh which is triggering my anxiety.. if i didnt know any diff as had my last period nearly 3 weeks ago id think i was due on xx
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I've increased mine,as I know I can feel better than I do at the moment.i have anxiety mid cycle and then pre bleed,I think the mid cycle is ovulation time,maybe it's the same for u. xx
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Yep will take 2mg tonight xx